FL787
Topic Author
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DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:42 am

On the heels of adding SJC, SEA, and BNA to their LAX portfolio, DL is now also adding ANC, BOS, and GEG. ANC will be twice weekly (FRI/SUN) during the summer using a 757 starting June 21st. BOS will be a daily 757 starting June 10th with a redeye eastbound and a morning flight the other direction. GEG will also start June 10th using a CR9.

LAX-ANC
2030-0100 757 57
ANC-LAX
2350-0605 757 57

LAX-BOS
2230-0710 757 D
BOS-LAX
0845-1200 757 D

LAX-GEG
1950-2225 CR9 D
GEG-LAX
0645-0920 CR9 D

These flights are viewable in Delta's desktop timetable.


BOS isn't too surprising of an addition but ANC and GEG certainly are IMO. I wonder how AS will feel about ANC and GEG.

Personally I think LAX is perhaps the most interesting market to watch and it will be interesting to see how the future plays out with AA, UA, DL, WN, and VX all fighting for a share of the pie. It would be great for LAX if all 5 can keep expanding their ops and I think that is what will happen as much as gate space allows. Speaking of which, I wonder how much wiggle room DL has left at this point. T5 will be busy.

[Edited 2013-02-13 21:48:52]
 
smoot4208
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:51 am

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
I wonder how AS will feel about ANC and GEG.

AS and DL both use to serve GEG-LAX. Currently no one serves it, so AS can't get too upset.
 
UALFAson
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:01 am

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
Personally I think LAX is perhaps the most interesting market to watch and it will be interesting to see how the future plays out with AA, UA, DL, WN, and VX all fighting for a share of the pie.

I wouldn't be surprised to see UA blink first. They have steadily downgauged from mainline to express on several routes and cut frequency on others. Their market share has also been declining, I believe, although it's a chicken-and-egg as to which of those situations caused the other. I think once the SFO renovations are completed and UA will be at full capacity up there, LAX, while they certainly won't abandon the 2nd largest city in the US, will become less of a focus for them to defend.

Back on topic, has DL never flown LAX-BOS or is this a resumption of once-upon-a-time service?
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USAirALB
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:02 am

IIRC, DL flew LAX-ANC a couple of years back.

This must be the 100th time they have resumed BOSLAX. Wonder if it will work this time.
E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/77W/319/320/321/333/343
 
BigGSFO
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:08 am

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 2):
Back on topic, has DL never flown LAX-BOS or is this a resumption of once-upon-a-time service?

Yeah, they've done it before. Didn't they also operate it with their short lived Song experiment?
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:11 am

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):

Question, just random, Is SEA-LAX still loaded as 3x CR9? My timetable is being stupid  

edit: Never mind. LAX-SEA goes 1x 757, 1x 738 1x CR9

does look like the 757 goes away in AUG.

Other changes, LAS gets a 320 (replaces 1 319) and (not really surprising) LAX-HND will go to a 767 with flat beds.

Also I am showing PVR coming back to daily (738) and GDL coming back to daily (757....not sure i get this being on a 757 when it failed with a 320 just a few months ago....)

[Edited 2013-02-13 22:45:14]
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PIEAvantiP180
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:12 am

DL right now is the odd man out on BOS-LAX. They well need to increase frequency to more then once daily to compete with AA, UA, B6, and VX who all offer more then one flight per day on the route. This is the one of the few remaining routes they will need to start in order to show that they are serous about their intentions with the LA market, they will not succeed with one daily flight, they need more. I hope I'm proven wrong on my opinion on this but only time will tell. I believe they will need to start IAD, DEN, DFW, IAH, and ORD to finish their domestic offering out of LAX.
 
B747forever
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:23 am

Finally Delta connects one of the most important domestic points to their LAX "hub". While I am glad they added BOS, I think they need another frequency on the route, leaving early morning from LAX and returning in the evening.


As I wrote in the DL SJC thread, Delta seems committed to Los Angeles, which they demonstrate with the launch of Boston. Now we are only missing a few more important destinations (mentioned above in reply 6) before Delta has full coverage out of LAX. Furthermore, with their 49% stake in VS I would not be surprised to see one of the LHR flights transferred to Delta metal.
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deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:23 am

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 6):
I believe they will need to start IAD, DEN, DFW, IAH, and ORD to finish their domestic offering out of LAX.

agreed. I want to see EWR and PHL back also. (oh and PDX)

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 6):
hey well need to increase frequency to more then once daily to compete with AA, UA, B6, and VX who all offer more then one flight per day on the route.

Agreed. At least a morning 737 flight. Kinda surprised they are going with the 57 for the start.

Oh course I also think MIA needs at least another flight too.

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 2):
Back on topic, has DL never flown LAX-BOS or is this a resumption of once-upon-a-time service?

yes. 400 million times.

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
LAX-GEG
1950-2225 CR9 D
GEG-LAX
0645-0920 CR9 D

This one.....uh. that seems kinda out of left field to me.

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
LAX-ANC
2030-0100 757 57
ANC-LAX
2350-0605 757 57

only two days a week? Well I don't think AS will even notice.

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
Speaking of which, I wonder how much wiggle room DL has left at this point. T5 will be busy.

Right now they are at ~8 flights per day per gate. So pretty darn busy.

(note, I really have no idea what gates in T6 they can/can't use. I do know at one point a rumor was floating around that they were trying to work out a deal with United for use of the old DL connector gates. No idea how true that is....just the rumor mill.) Also they have been using some of the parking spots at the hangar for RJ flights
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klwright69
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:49 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 8):
Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 6): I believe they will need to start IAD, DEN, DFW, IAH, and ORD to finish their domestic offering out of LAX.
agreed. I want to see EWR and PHL back also. (oh and PDX)

Yes, agreed. And they should add all these routes sooner rather than later if they are so serious about this LAX buildup. Let's see how the incumbent carriers respond. Let the games begin.
 
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SANFan
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:04 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 3):
This must be the 100th time they have resumed BOSLAX. Wonder if it will work this time

Yeah, and I think maybe B6 was not flying out of LAX the last time DL flew LA-BOS.

Good luck to DL on all of these routes... they may need it!

bb
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:11 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 10):

Yeah, and I think maybe B6 was not flying out of LAX the last time DL flew LA-BOS.

Not sure, but I know VX wasn't. This is a route that Delta has to be more than willing to lose money on. (and again, IMHO lose money on at least 2 but more than likely 3 flights a day)

Also think this is a route that it is very important to get the best hard product on. ie 75X and 73H aircraft.
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MAH4546
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:29 am

Fourth try on BOSLAX, I think. Won't be long befortribe fifth try at this rate.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 11):
Also think this is a route that it is very important to get the best hard product on. ie 75X and 73H aircraft.
LA's key transcontinental business markets are NYC , D.C. and Miami. Boston's business ties to California are largely to NorCal.

[Edited 2013-02-14 00:30:48]
a.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:38 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):
LA's key transcontinental business markets are NYC , D.C. and Miami. Boston's business ties to California are largely to NorCal.

I don't disagree...still think Delta needs to put its best foot forward.
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RWA380
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:41 am

Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 1):
AS and DL both use to serve GEG-LAX. Currently no one serves it, so AS can't get too upset

I think AS is not going to be upset, it seems whatever new arrangement they made a couple months back, must have included flying each others key routes to dominate and hopefully rid themselves of any possible competition. AS has a nice thing going on the west coast.

Since AS/DL have made their new stronger alliance, AS has begun SEA-SLC, DL LAX-SEA now LAX-ANC & LAX-GEG. right into the heart of AS country. Normally a move by a carrier DL's size into such protected AS markets, would have elicited a strong reaction from AS, look at B6 going SEA-ANC 1 x daily. and AS trumped with triple miles.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 8):
(oh and PDX)

This would be great, and a welcome back to DL, I do hope we see a couple of CR9's ourselves here, I'm needing them to start by the last week in September. Last time I took DL PDX-LAX-PDX it was being flown on 733's, before that 72S's.  
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panamair
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:41 am

DL will also start a Saturday-only LAX-BZN CR9 flight this summer...
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:51 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
I do hope we see a couple of CR9's ourselves

3-4 CR9/CR7 sounds about right. Link up to Hawaii,SYD, HND and NRT(even though it has a PDX flight) plus the short haul market, T-cons and Mexico.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
AS has begun SEA-SLC, DL LAX-SEA now LAX-ANC & LAX-GEG

And of course, AS doesn't fly GEG-LAX so I have no idea why they would get super upset. Gives them a chance to codeshare on an ex-route.

Also AS has started SEA-ATL/MSP flights as part of the "alliance". right now its 3 to 1. (sorry, not counting a 2 weekly flight to ANC and only runs for a few weeks.)

Quoting panamair (Reply 15):

I knew i was forgetting one.

Anyways, starts JUN 22 ends AUG 24
LAX-BZN
900-1215 CR9 6
BZN-LAX
1250-1405 CR9 6
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RWA380
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:07 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 16):

And of course, AS doesn't fly GEG-LAX so I have no idea why they would get super upset. Gives them a chance to codeshare on an ex-route.

Yes that is true, AS most likely dominates the market share anyway. IIRC, AS is not putting it's code on the LAX-SEA flights flown by the DL CR9's, I am unsure if they will be doing so on LAX-ANC or LAX-GEG. Since G4 announced GEG-HNL I had hoped they may think of taking on this route non-stop, but I guess I was wrong.

How much room does DL have to grow there at LAX? I hope we see more DL dots on the west coast being connected to LAX. I think these flights will help DL keep more inventory control for their top tier frequent flier base.
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deltal1011man
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:26 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 17):
IIRC, AS is not putting it's code on the LAX-SEA flights flown by the DL CR9's,

I didn't think they would. With out looking I think 2 of the three flights are with-in minutes of AS's flights.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 17):
am unsure if they will be doing so on LAX-ANC

meh... its not like its a daily flight. 2 days a week, for a few weeks. Not sure I would even pay an employee the time to waste the key strokes putting it into the system.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 17):
or LAX-GEG.

I think they codeshare on this.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 17):
How much room does DL have to grow there at LAX?

Delta's gate per day usage is pretty high. As i said, they have been parking RJs at the hangar to free up space. (and again, rumor was they were trying to work a deal to get more T6 gates)

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 17):
I hope we see more DL dots on the west coast being connected to LAX.

PDX/DEN would be great. I would also like to see some markets like MRY/SBA/FAT/TUS/RNO/ABQ/COS.
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commavia
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 1:09 pm

Interesting.

While the schedule is suboptimal, BOS is a market DL needed to be in to be competitive at LAX.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:32 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 5):
Question, just random, Is SEA-LAX still loaded as 3x CR9? My timetable is being stupid

edit: Never mind. LAX-SEA goes 1x 757, 1x 738 1x CR9

Really? When did that happen? I just looked on Delta.com and they still list all three LAX-SEA flights as CR9's by Skywest.
 
klkla
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:04 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 5):
Also I am showing PVR coming back to daily (738) and GDL coming back to daily (757....not sure i get this being on a 757 when it failed with a 320 just a few months ago....)

When does this start?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:13 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 20):
Really? When did that happen? I just looked on Delta.com and they still list all three LAX-SEA flights as CR9's by Skywest.

Check Saturday, if not sooner. What is going on with DL/AS? It's been back and forth for a couple weeks now, starting with LAXSEA on DL, an increase on AS, LAXSJC and ATLANC on DL, now LAXANC/GEG and an upgauge on LAXSEA. Doesn't seem very partner-ly
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PHXFlyer16
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:30 pm

Interesting to see DL really fortifying LAX right before AA/US merger was announced.

Does anyone have a breakdown of number of flights per day and number of gates for AS, SW, DL, VX, UA and AA?
 
rafflesking
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:41 pm

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
LAX-BOS
2230-0710 757 D
BOS-LAX
0845-1200 757 D

Note the OP specifies these additions are only on Fridays and Sundays. So this looks to be an asset utilization play or an observed connection trend rather than an attempt to compete with the 4 carriers currently running the route with multiple dailies.

This frequent BOS-DTW-LAX flier appreciates the summertime addition!

Sincerely,

Captain Obvious
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:03 pm

Quoting rafflesking (Reply 24):

Note the OP specifies these additions are only on Fridays and Sundays. So this looks to be an asset utilization play or an observed connection trend rather than an attempt to compete with the 4 carriers currently running the route with multiple dailies.

No the OP mentions that ANC is Fr/Su only (hence the 57 comment after the 757 equipment). BOS/GEG both have D instead of 57, meaning it will be daily.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:08 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 15):
DL will also start a Saturday-only LAX-BZN CR9 flight this summer...

Great news!
As a DL FF living in Bozeman, I can say that the DL flights here are always packed--especially to SLC. I've wondered if we might soon get a mainline flight on that route, but I'm just as happy to see a new destination. DL has 3 gates at BZN now, and it's nice to see increased utilization.

UA also offers seasonal BZN-LAX service, but with higher frequency.

BZN's summer schedule is shaping up nicely. This is based on the week of July 7-13:
DL:
LAX: 1x weekly CR9 (saturday only)
SLC: 6x daily (4xCR2, 1xCR7, 1xCR9)
MSP: 3x daily (all A320)
ATL: 3x weekly (2x757, 1x738) Wed/Sat/Sun

UA:
EWR: 2x weekly (319/320, Sat/Sun)
DEN: 5x daily Sun-Fri, 4x on Saturday, all CR2s.
SFO: 1x daily CR2
LAX: 1x daily CR2
ORD: 3x on Sunday, 2x daily Mon-Sat, all CR7s

AS:
SEA: 2x daily Q400
PDX: 1x daily Q400

F9:
DEN: 1x daily A319 (F9's schedule currently runs through July 10)

G4:
LAS: 2x weekly
AZA: 2x weekly
OAK: I haven't heard about this being dropped, but it doesn't seem bookable right now.

The BZN management has been courting AA service to DFW for a while. Maybe the merger with US can help that happen if the larger airline feels like they need BZN to fill out their network. (Sorry about the long off-topic post--I just get excited when BZN gets a new route.)
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:10 pm

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 25):
ANC is Fr/Su only (hence the 57 comment after the 757 equipment).

...which is odd because 5/7 are not utilization days, although it is pretty much a utilization schedule. Maybe 57 to ANC is better than 57 redeye to the East Coast, at least in summer.
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hiflyeras
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:36 pm

I wonder if DL's moves are intended to put pressure on AS to make a choice....DL or AA?
 
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enilria
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:38 pm

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
BOS isn't too surprising of an addition but ANC and GEG certainly are IMO. I wonder how AS will feel about ANC and GEG.

Clearly AS choosing AA for a tighter deal in LAX has either irritated DL or caused them to quickly think about building up to replace them.
 
stapleton
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:43 pm

GEG received a Small Community Air Service grant for service to LAX. Perhaps Delta was the only responder.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:45 pm

Regarding GEG, there has been SCASD money on the table since 2011 for resumption of a Southern California link.

However I am not sure DL will qualify using the CR9 as award was specific to "mainline aircraft >99 seats".

Spokane in summer months should not be too difficult to fill as LA/San Diego region generated 325,000 annual O&D trips per the SCASD application, but the market is very seasonal, so come winter months it could be quite challenging.
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n515cr
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:35 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4):
Yeah, they've done it before. Didn't they also operate it with their short lived Song experiment?

I do know that when they were flying to BOS in late 2007-early 2008, it was on 738s.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 7:39 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 28):
I wonder if DL's moves are intended to put pressure on AS to make a choice....DL or AA?

I don't think AS has to worry about the pressure. Next time I fly SEA-LAX/SLC/MSP/ATL/HNL, I'll have a choice between DL and AS. Guess which one I'll choose. AS can hold their own again DL on competing routes.
 
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chrisnh
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:44 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):
Fourth try on BOSLAX, I think. Won't be long befortribe fifth try at this rate.

I was thinking the same, and the coveted business community will likely roll its eyes in a 'we've-seen-this-movie-before' way.

But I don't know whether DL's 757 are going to be more 'comfortable' than AA's 738s or UAs 319s...they will certainly be bigger. The promotional play might be 'more room for you' or something like that.
 
point2point
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting FL787 (Thread starter):
BOS isn't too surprising of an addition but ANC and GEG certainly are IMO.
Quoting Stapleton (Reply 30):
GEG received a Small Community Air Service grant for service to LAX. Perhaps Delta was the only responder.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 31):
Regarding GEG, there has been SCASD money on the table since 2011 for resumption of a Southern California link.

However I am not sure DL will qualify using the CR9 as award was specific to "mainline aircraft >99 seats".

Spokane in summer months should not be too difficult to fill as LA/San Diego region generated 325,000 annual O&D trips per the SCASD application, but the market is very seasonal, so come winter months it could be quite challenging.

With some 500+ pax daily between Spokane and the SoCal area..... I'm surprised the this went unattended for so long, and that a grant is even needed to fly LAX-GEG. But..... so is the way of the airline world, eh?


 
 
tommy767
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:51 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 8):

agreed. I want to see EWR and PHL back also. (oh and PDX)

DL had LAX-PHL last year with a 1x 738. It got dropped. Apparently didn't do so well.

I could see LAX-EWR added back with a daily 738 when EWR-CDG resumes this June (hasn't operated since 1992.)
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panam330
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:58 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 36):
DL had LAX-PHL last year with a 1x 738. It got dropped. Apparently didn't do so well.

Philly is a difficult nut to crack on trunk routes. Just ask WN. It's a rare case of US winning, nearly across the board. Jury's still out on VX to the left coast, and B6 hasn't started BOS just yet - but we shall see.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:19 pm

How many more routes need to be added at LAX before we all agree that DL intends to make LAX a hub?
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BoeingGuy
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:24 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 35):
With some 500+ pax daily between Spokane and the SoCal area..... I'm surprised the this went unattended for so long, and that a grant is even needed to fly LAX-GEG. But..... so is the way of the airline world, eh?

AS/QX has tried LAX-GEG on several occasions and then later discontinued it. They were flying it around 2005 with an AS MD-80; then tried again a few years later with a QX CR7.

AS/QX also had a short lived SJC-GEG with a Q400 that didn't last long.
 
ldvaviation
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:35 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 12):
LA's key transcontinental business markets are NYC , D.C. and Miami. Boston's business ties to California are largely to NorCal.

AA and Delta are the preferred airlines of one very large D Contractor with operations in Boston, LA, and Dallas.

Of course, the merger of AA/US may now mean that there will be less of an opportunity for Delta to grow that business and thus sustain LAX/Boston with that contract.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:51 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 35):
With some 500+ pax daily between Spokane and the SoCal area..... I'm surprised the this went unattended for so long, and that a grant is even needed to fly LAX-GEG. But..... so is the way of the airline world, eh?

1) Very seasonal - 4 month summer period accounts for 60% of the traffic.
2) Its a leisure market. Not a SEA or PDX that generates good deal of business traffic
3) Long'ish stage length - its a 1000mile haul, not some short 1-hour hop.
4) Relative low fares

I have no doubt DL will be able to fill the planes especially in the summer, the question is more what happens during the remainder of the year, and also whats the magical yield they manage to sustain.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
laca773
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:25 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 5):
Also I am showing PVR coming back to daily (738) and GDL coming back to daily (757....not sure i get this being on a 757 when it failed with a 320 just a few months ago....)

PVR has been an odd market for DL since they pulled out after running for many years after the WA merger. AM took the route over, then dropped it. I was thinking DL was waiting for AM to pick it back up, so they would operate it seasonally, and now we have them back to flying it daily. Are the 738s they are flying to PVR equipped with AVOD, or a standard model? It seemed like for a while they were choosing to operate Mexico flights with the A319/A320s on the leisure routes since they don't have larger premium cabins, no AVOD etc..

In regards to GDL, when was this route operated with a 757 on a regular basis? I thought this was a 738 before being switched to a A320? This is another market I feel DL was waiting to see if AM would add more service and have them fly it instead. Obviously this isn't going to happen.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 34):
But I don't know whether DL's 757 are going to be more 'comfortable' than AA's 738s or UAs 319s...they will certainly be bigger. The promotional play might be 'more room for you' or something like that.

I suspect DL will fly LAX-BOS with the AVOD equipped 757s and if there's a downgauge or a/c sub, a 73H. In this regard, they will offer a better product compared to UA & AA.
Will they offer similar catering on this transcon as they do to JFK?

[

Quoting panam330 (Reply 37):
Philly is a difficult nut to crack on trunk routes. Just ask WN. It's a rare case of US winning, nearly across the board. Jury's still out on VX to the left coast, and B6 hasn't started BOS just yet - but we shall see.
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 5):
LAX-HND will go to a 767 with flat beds.

LAX-HND going to a 76W makes sense. The A330/777 is too large for this market, especially with NH flying it as well.
I completely agree about PHL being a difficult market to figure out. UA kept their foot a bit wet in the market, but always seemed as if they were going to pull the plug, with the exception of the single rotation, and then, it got the axe. Is the market adqeuately covered by US operating 4-5 A321s daily?
Perhaps this is a market that was timed poorly by DL only operating as a redeye as many of these secondary markets are flown by them. Perhaps they needed to operate it early am eastbound and early evening westbound for business travelers.

I hope they can get BOS to work this time around. There's some obvious rationale for them to re-enter the market again.
I believe the first time they attempted to fly it is when they came out with their Biz Elite product and tried to introduce it on transcons with the 762. This didn't last long, then the 738s.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:30 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 39):
AS/QX has tried LAX-GEG on several occasions and then later discontinued it. They were flying it around 2005 with an AS MD-80; then tried again a few years later with a QX CR7.

AS/QX also had a short lived SJC-GEG with a Q400 that didn't last long.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 41):
I have no doubt DL will be able to fill the planes especially in the summer, the question is more what happens during the remainder of the year, and also whats the magical yield they manage to sustain.

Nail-on-the-head prize for these two! Sure, they might operate fairly full but at what rasm? AS has tried it and it didn't work...but then they have no patience for a route that loses money. DL might be willing to hang on a bit longer but I don't see it lasting past September, maybe January 2014.
 
mpdpilot
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:07 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
Clearly AS choosing AA for a tighter deal in LAX has either irritated DL or caused them to quickly think about building up to replace them.

The agreement between AA and AS didn't change anything between DL and AS. I don't think DL is irritated with AS at all. I think DL and AS and AA are all doing what airlines do when they are just code-sharing and not revenue sharing and that is add routes on their own metal when appropriate. If no airline did this then code-shares wouldn't produce anything they would just keep the status quo.

I would actually say that because DL and AS are adding flights in each others markets that the codeshare deal is producing positive results. They are starting to see the benefit of working together and as such are adding flights.

A way to think about this is, DL knows how many DL passengers it puts on AS flights. So when the market grows DL knows that it can add a flight. Same thing in SEA. AS knows when it is sending a lot of people on DL's or AA's flights so it adds flights.

A little off topic, but the AA deal seems more like something AS wanted then AA wanting it. Seems that AS wants/needs more help in Texas, an area that DL can't offer as well as AA. I mean AA got some flights to HNL and from Portland, not exactly the biggest priority at AA.

As for the routes themselves, I think it is DL tiptoeing around the big three that they aren't ready to fight for (ORD, DFW, IAD). They have to come sometime and there isn't much else DL can add without getting into that territory.

EWR will be much later if at all, DL would rather serve JFK hourly than fight at EWR.

IAH just isn't as big a whole to be worth the inevitable fight with UA.
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tommy767
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:40 am

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 44):
EWR will be much later if at all, DL would rather serve JFK hourly than fight at EWR.

Look at AA. They fly both LAX-JFK and LAX-EWR.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
hiflyeras
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:44 am

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 44):
A way to think about this is, DL knows how many DL passengers it puts on AS flights. So when the market grows DL knows that it can add a flight. Same thing in SEA. AS knows when it is sending a lot of people on DL's or AA's flights so it adds flights.

Exactly! Perfect examples are DL's new LAX-SEA flights. AS flights are packed on this route and they couldn't provide the seats that DL needed. Instead of waiting around for AS to add flights they've started their own. Same with AS service from SEA to MSP and ATL...with SEA being AS's main hub they can fly whereever they want...and if they're putting enough people on DL codeshares to those cities then they might as well fly there themselves.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:32 am

Looking at DOT numbers the Skywest CR9 operating cost are $1,983/hr excluding fuel. For fuel they report they burn an average of 461/gal per block hr.

So a LAX-GEG oneway trip will cost about $8,400 for the 2.5hrs.

With 76 seats @ 80%LF they need to net $138 per person each way (excluding taxes) on the fare to breakeven to cover the direct operating cost. (This is not covering airport fees, handling, or other overhead).
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:40 am

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 44):

As for the routes themselves, I think it is DL tiptoeing around the big three that they aren't ready to fight for (ORD, DFW, IAD). They have to come sometime and there isn't much else DL can add without getting into that territory.

Maybe they are waiting to see if any beoynd-perimeter slots are divested at DCA with the merger before they do anything?
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MAH4546
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RE: DL To Start LAX-ANC/BOS/GEG

Fri Feb 15, 2013 1:41 am

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 46):
Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 44):
A way to think about this is, DL knows how many DL passengers it puts on AS flights. So when the market grows DL knows that it can add a flight. Same thing in SEA. AS knows when it is sending a lot of people on DL's or AA's flights so it adds flights.

Exactly! Perfect examples are DL's new LAX-SEA flights. AS flights are packed on this route and they couldn't provide the seats that DL needed. Instead of waiting around for AS to add flights they've started their own. Same with AS service from SEA to MSP and ATL...with SEA being AS's main hub they can fly whereever they want...and if they're putting enough people on DL codeshares to those cities then they might as well fly there themselves.

When airlines add service on a major codeshare partners route, it's often not an instance of cooperating - it's because they know they are losing potentially valuable revenue, and want it for themselves.
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