Dreamflight767
Topic Author
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:43 pm

FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:43 pm

I would like to share this with our aviation community and ask for your support. Thank you.

The upcoming sequestration (across-the-board cuts) are set to take place on March 1st. Unless Congress acts, the FAA will be forced to cut $483 million from its operations budget and will likely result in mandatory furloughs for ALL FAA employees include air traffic controllers, other aviation safety professionals, Alaskan Flight Service Stations, and Federal Contract Towers. These cuts will no doubt have a severe effect on the efficiency and capacity of the National Airspace. In addition to furloughs we may expect a reduction in facility operating hours (shutting down facilities during mid-shift operations) and services and a host of yet-to-be-determined cost-saving measures (maintenance to NAV aids –ILS, NDBs, & VORs - and other FAA operated equipment).

Please help to make sure that your members of Congress understand the need to avoid these cuts under sequestration by clicking on the link below to make our voice heard!


http://afl.salsalabs.com/o/5893/p/di...dia/action/public/?action_KEY=5541

Your efforts and time are much appreciated.
 
mmedford
Posts: 449
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 5:54 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:03 pm

I'd bump this thread...

If you guys think delays are bad now, imagine how bad things will be when 1/10 of the staffing is avaliable.,

Do your part, here...now.
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1560
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:04 pm

You want their attention? Operate DCA on a limited budget and schedule, before any other airports.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
as739x
Posts: 4993
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:16 pm

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 2):
You want their attention? Operate DCA on a limited budget and schedule, before any other airports.



Completely agree!
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3941
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:21 pm

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 2):
You want their attention? Operate DCA on a limited budget and schedule, before any other airports.


And then ORD, ATL, JFK and a few others right behind, in fact start it now. Also, when an ILS goes down and requires a Flight Inspection to bring it back to service, they can't fly because the pilots who were not furloughed that day are out of crew time.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 13730
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:34 pm

But is this so vital that they also are allowed to continue wasteful spending in other departments to prevent it? Reminds me of the pleas on the state and local levels in California, that if you don't agree to our tax demands, we will let prisoners out if jail and cut the fire department. This is simply government extortion on the national rather than regional level.

Lets just pass an emergency FAA bill if its so vital.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:44 pm

One thing that is even worse for some people is that the FAA Certification offices are looking at going on furlough as well. That would put a hault to certification work, which could keep the 787 grounded, and impact deliveries of all Cessna, Boeing, etc airplanes as well as deliveries to airlines under FAA jurisdiction of Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier, etc. The consequences are rather big.

I know we are supposed to keep politics out of the Civil Aviation thread, but any politician thinking that it is ok to have such consequences should be voted out of office in my opinion. The impact to aviation alone is enough to seriously hurt many people within the FAA and the industry as a whole.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Sat Feb 16, 2013 7:47 am

We need to cut costs, plain and simple. I can only hope the furlough days are back to back so I can enjoy it, not the 1 day a pay period im hearing. Looking forward to a few days off, sorry travelling public!
Trikes are for kids!
 
Dreamflight767
Topic Author
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:43 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:13 pm

Quoting atct (Reply 7):
We need to cut costs, plain and simple. I can only hope the furlough days are back to back so I can enjoy it, not the 1 day a pay period im hearing. Looking forward to a few days off, sorry travelling public!

LOL!!! You obviously haven't worked for the agency that long. If you think the FAA/Management is going to be that diligent when deciding what days you spend on the beach, you have a rude awaking. And, if you haven't looked around your facility or kept pace with other FAA paraphernalia for better cost cutting measures, you need to improve your scan. Moreover, if you think it takes HR a long time to process your payroll/benefits/ERRs/Bids, or any other "paperwork" you might need, just wait and see.




A reminder for everyone to please take a moment and follow the link in the original post. Regardless if you plan to travel by air, this will have a direct impact on your daily life.

Thanks!
 
MeanGreen
Posts: 134
Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 8:34 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:22 pm

atct, you are excited about unpaid time off? I am not and I am also not excited about the impact this will have on my facility and the users of the NAS!
 
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lightsaber
Crew
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:40 pm

Its not just the FAA. I came out of the defense industries. The cuts are brutal and *not* going after the waste. In fact, they seem determined to go after programs people care about in an attempt to just raise taxes.

This is a 5% budget cut. I came out of a group that had to do the same work after a 20% budget cut where half the budget went back to the government and they were cut 0%!

While I do not want anyone laid off, I suspect the FAA has more than 5% waste. Identify that and cut it. It won't be the air traffic controllers and many of the line personel IMHO.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
But is this so vital that they also are allowed to continue wasteful spending in other departments to prevent it?

  

Quoting Dreamflight767 (Reply 8):
this will have a direct impact on your daily life.

I've had multiple friends laid off. This has already had impacts on daily life. But as long as we import more than we produce, we'll be on a downward spiral.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
bohica
Posts: 2298
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 3:21 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Sat Feb 16, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 2):
You want their attention? Operate DCA on a limited budget and schedule, before any other airports.

Better yet, shut down DCA. Also shut down IAD and BWI so congressmen can't use those as alternate airports. Lets see how fast they will act.
 
frmrCapCadet
Posts: 997
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:24 pm

This Ezra Klein article discusses the deficit, and includes the CBO projected spending chart in the main government spending sectors. It is fairly non-controversial that medical spending is crowding out most of the other spending. And posters need to keep in mind that the federal budget roughly represents a concensus of American wishes.

If a moderator were to consider it appropriate posting the CBO chart might be helpful.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...reason-to-worry-about-the-deficit/
Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:28 am

Quoting MeanGreen (Reply 9):
atct, you are excited about unpaid time off?


You have to know him to understand him! I'm not defending those words, only that he need serious help...thus why we sent him packing to Alaska.   
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
N766UA
Posts: 7843
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 1999 3:50 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:42 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
The cuts are brutal and *not* going after the waste.

Absolutely correct. There are so many meaningful and effective ways to cut costs that would actually be beneficial. This is not one of them. This is just another prime example of a corrupt and broken government screwing up and me, and average citizens like me, taking the hit.

But hey, it's not important enough for them to NOT take a damned weeklong vacation, and I'm sure they're doing it unpaid like I'm going to have to, right?  
This Website Censors Me
 
rcair1
Crew
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:52 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
But is this so vital that they also are allowed to continue wasteful spending in other departments to prevent it? Reminds me of the pleas on the state and local levels in California, that if you don't agree to our tax demands, we will let prisoners out if jail and cut the fire department. This is simply government extortion on the national rather than regional level.

The US government has not passed a budget in - how many years? We should furlough the legislative and executive branches.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
Lets just pass an emergency FAA bill if its so vital.

  

Quoting atct (Reply 7):

We need to cut costs,

Particularly if "we" is the US Government.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
This is a 5% budget cut.

Any agency/business that cannot handle a 5% budget cut is mismanaged. Businesses do this ALL THE TIME. 5% isn't even hard.

Quoting frmrcapcadet (Reply 12):
And posters need to keep in mind that the federal budget roughly represents a concensus of American wishes.

No it doesn't. I'm sorry - the federal budget roughly represents the result of gerrymandering and corruption.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 14):
them to NOT take a damned weeklong vacation

Paid by us of course.

PS - this should probably be in the non-aviation thread. The aviation impact of this out of control spending is miniscule.
rcair1
 
Dreamflight767
Topic Author
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 10:43 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:33 am

Evening Folks;

Just a reminder to please take a moment and fill-in the blanks of this link to emphasize to those who "run" our country how important it is to resolve this issue:

http://afl.salsalabs.com/o/5893/p/di...dia/action/public/?action_KEY=5541

For those of you traveling in the upcoming weeks or enjoying spring break/St. Patrick's day via air travel will encounter endless security lines and unknown lengthy delays due to air traffic controller and equipment shortages.

Those who are not traveling still benefit from air service(s) and will feel the impact. Since Friday alone, my airport provided services to: Business/Cooperate Aviation, General Aviation, at least two local FBOs, countless neighboring FBOs, countless flight schools - fixed wing/helos - including several large university pilot programs, one of the world's largest helo manufacturing factories, the hospital pad located on airport grounds, local/county/state/federal law enforcement, county fire services, air ambulances, U.S. Coast Guard, pest and agriculture control, power and water helo, and TV news helos.

Each one of the mentioned above received services from some of the best personnel in world who indirectly play a pivotal roll in how we live day-to-day.

Thanks again!
 
kellmark
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 12:05 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:09 pm

I cannot believe the "end of the world as we know it" type of comments above. The Federal Government is the largest bloated bureaucracy in the world. The FAA is no exception to that, although I do agree that there are many other programs that would deserve to be totally eliminated rather than have the FAA budget reduced. Unfortunately, our political system is so corrupt and mismanaged that it has shown itself incapable of even doing that or even producing a legally required budget for more than 3 years. It is a disgrace.

The fact is that the Federal government is basically bankrupt. We have over 16 trillion dollars in debt now and no way to pay that off. 40% of every dollar we spend we simply don't have. It has to be borrowed, taxed or printed, all of which is being done at an outrageous pace. We have a huge spending problem. The spending cuts that would happen are minuscule, basically worth about a week of operations to the entire federal government. The government wastes far more than that just with its gross inefficiencies. But we don't have a choice.

When reductions are necessary, line operations should be prioritized. That could be done here and there would be basically no impact on operations. But politically, that wouldn't work. They want the public to be inconvenienced, to show how "terrible" the effects of a very small cut would be.
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:57 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
While I do not want anyone laid off, I suspect the FAA has more than 5% waste. Identify that and cut it.
Quoting kellmark (Reply 17):
When reductions are necessary, line operations should be prioritized. That could be done here and there would be basically no impact on operations.

Unfortunately, it looks like they have no choice where to cut. Excerpt from a Feb 7 speech by Michael Huerta (FAA Administrator):

"We anticipate that the Office of Management and Budget would implement sequestration across the board. This would require the FAA to make the cuts equally across all budget line items in the affected accounts. This significantly minimizes the flexibility we would have in managing the budget reductions.

Sequestration would force the FAA to cut back on operating costs by reducing the core services we provide."
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:01 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 13):

You have to know him to understand him! I'm not defending those words, only that he need serious help...thus why we sent him packing to Alaska.

 
Quoting Dreamflight767 (Reply 8):
LOL!!! You obviously haven't worked for the agency that long.

Ive got a few years under my belt with more than just the FAA. I know how the system works. Please discuss the issue and do not attack individuals as per forum guidelines.



I don't know about the other potential government employees on this thread but I have something called a savings account. I was warned years ago that this would happen and have planned accordingly. A little pay cut when I make 3-4x the average household income of the US isn't going to hurt much. I live well within my means and, frankly, am looking forward to some extra time off. I know HR will be backed up with all the paperwork...when aren't they? They aren't held to the same standard and are paid accordingly.

Long story short, If the furlough comes, sorry users. There is nothing I can do to change the happenings but in the mean time I can be smart and plan ahead for how it may affect me. I wont whine on some internet board that "oh no, I'm only going to make $95,000 next year, boo hoo." I know many pilot friends of mine who would love to change positions.
Trikes are for kids!
 
blueflyer
Posts: 3625
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:40 pm

I don't think life will be that different in March, or April, for that matter. The CBO and other government agencies have already said they understand the law to require annual budget cuts with no obligation to spread them evenly. If agency heads believe letting the deadline is a ploy to force the "other side" to compromise, nothing stops them from delaying budget cuts until later in the year. Instead of applying 1/12 of the cuts to the monthly budget, if there is such a thing, they can apply half of the cuts each to the last two months of the year, effectively shutting down their agency, and be in full compliance with the law.

My guess is this is why some politicians are willing to wait out the deadline, because they know that, in the short term, nothing will change. In March, no one will blame them for being furloughed or having spent three hours more than usual in a TSA line. In fact, most government agencies are not ready to implement cuts on day one anyway.

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 4):
And then ORD, ATL, JFK and a few others right behind, in fact start it now

Refusing to perform work that you are expected to is a strike, even if you are just being "early" on a future reality not of your own will.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
The cuts are brutal and *not* going after the waste. In fact, they seem determined to go after programs people care about in an attempt to just raise taxes.

That to me indicates that for once, Congress got it right. The purpose of the sequestration is to make inaction so painful for so many people that it would be simply unacceptable to let it happen and politicians would be forced to make a deal. Refusing to compromise and letting sequestration cuts take effect is a new low I didn't think was physically attainable that we can thank certain ideologue, take-no-prisoners, my-way-or-the-highway members of Congress for.

I can't decide what makes me angrier, the fact that there may not be a deal to avert sequestration come March 1st, or that we are in this situation because of yet another short-term solution from incompetent politicians who seem unable to do more than take half-measures and kick the can down the road. I suppose it is a good sign their own pay will be suspended on March 1st if there's no deal. That their budget for their congressional office is not affected, and that they will get their pay back in full once a deal is signed, is too bad.
Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has no clothes.
 
anrec80
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:22 am

Quoting kellmark (Reply 17):
When reductions are necessary, line operations should be prioritized. That could be done here and there would be basically no impact on operations. But politically, that wouldn't work. They want the public to be inconvenienced, to show how "terrible" the effects of a very small cut would be.

On the other hand, with sequester being in place, the airports, TSA and other air infrastructure agencies will be forced to seek their required funding in forcing airlines to charge higher fees for their services. Such as airport landing fees and navigation fees will get funneled through to the consumers in terms of higher airfares, or more additional surcharges. Yes, already annoying list of fees will get inevitable longer.

This sequester is only the beginning - ultimately more to come. So air travel will probably be more like a cable bill - travel provider quotes you one thing, and at the end you will end up paying a different price, and you won't necessarily know what will it be.

TSA under these conditions will also want more than $5 they charge right now. Or, say, special pat-down surcharge - Thanksgiving Special for $4.95 only! Highly intimate pat-down from TSA!
 
Flighty
Posts: 7651
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:59 am

My guess is the FAA used to operate in 1998 on a lot less money, and can do so again.

Of course, people who earn their paycheck through the government will make cuts as unpleasant as possible. This is partly because they want to maintain their family's receipt of hefty government paychecks.
 
kellmark
Posts: 542
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2000 12:05 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:38 am

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 22):
On the other hand, with sequester being in place, the airports, TSA and other air infrastructure agencies will be forced to seek their required funding in forcing airlines to charge higher fees for their services. Such as airport landing fees and navigation fees will get funneled through to the consumers in terms of higher airfares, or more additional surcharges. Yes, already annoying list of fees will get inevitable longer.

The government we have at present has no problem with raising fees or taxes. In fact they look for "crisis" opportunities all the time, so that they can increase their control on the country. And if they can create one, then so much the better for them.

But any increase in fees or taxes is not done in a vacuum. The airline industry already has 2 major problems. Skyrocketing fuel prices, (again), in large part because of a terrible government policy on energy which literally guarantees more limited supply, and also the effect of an economy which is again contracting, also due to terrible government policies of high regulation and more taxes, such as Obamacare.

If the industry has to raise fares due to higher taxes, fees or higher fuel prices, fewer people will travel. There is a point where there is no extra revenue, no matter how high you raise taxes, as people will find ways to avoid paying them. It becomes a lose-lose deal for everyone. A lot of airline travel is purely discretionary in nature. Leisure travel, visiting family and friends can be largely a choice that can be canceled or delayed. A lot of business can now be done over the internet. Short haul is already way down from before. There are alternatives. The passengers, the airlines and the supporting infrastructure will be diminished in the future, unless we can get some better policies and decision makers.
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 3941
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:50 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 20):
Refusing to perform work that you are expected to is a strike, even if you are just being "early" on a future reality not of your own will.


Nothing was mentioned regarding refusing to perform work nor a strike!!!!!!! The content was when they (FAA) start reduction of services to start with those airports first. It might be nice to read reply 2 over if you have questions.

Quoting atct (Reply 19):
Please discuss the issue and do not attack individuals as per forum guidelines.


Nicely done.  
Quoting atct (Reply 19):
I live well within my means and, frankly, am looking forward to some extra time off.


Now you're making sense. When you think of how many controllers have been working 6 day weeks and some of those days 10 hour days for the last 3-4 years the numbers are astonishing. Sure they will be looking forward to less work and as you hope their savings has grown with the overtime.

Regardless, it takes XX number of people to staff a facility no matter where it is, when you don't have those numbers services will be reduced from the air traffic side alone. Possibly something as simple as dual/triple simultaneous approaches can't be operated because it takes too many bodies, but then due to pressure from the airlines the facility uses the bodies necessary for that arrival push and cuts other services the controllers. Either way not good.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
Boeing717200
Posts: 1761
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:44 pm

Quoting Dreamflight767 (Thread starter):

I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything, but the operating budget for the FAA comes from the trust fund. It's the administrative functions which receive general fund money that face cuts. Not a single ATC facility will be impacted by sequestration, but I'm sure the political appointees will falsely claim otherwise so they can get more money to spend on people and things we don't need.

Same applies to the TSA and the "lines" you claim will come. TSA staffing comes from the security fees and airport revenues come from the airlines.

BTW... How much is the union paying you to post this stuff? I know they are counting on the uninformed to throw their hands up in the air and sign petitions.

Quoting Dreamflight767 (Thread starter):
the FAA will be forced to cut $483 million from its operations budget and will likely result in mandatory furloughs for ALL FAA employees include air traffic controllers

Actually, they won't cut a dime from the operating budget. Your admin might get a furlough, but your controllers will be at work. That was the whole purpose of developing the Trust Fund. Keep the FAA operation going in spite of what the rest of the government is doing.

[Edited 2013-02-20 07:12:05]
 
wagz
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:48 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:46 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 26):
Actually, they won't cut a dime from the operating budget. Your admin might get a furlough, but your controllers will be at work. That was the whole purpose of developing the Trust Fund. Keep the FAA operation going in spite of what the rest of the government is doing.

You may want to check your facts again buddy, because last time I checked I'm a controller, and we all will be getting 11 days of furlough (assuming sequestration lasts that long) right now planned to be one day a pay period. Only caveat is that we are required to have 30 days notice, so essentially furloughs start April 1. On top of that, most details for work groups will be cancelled and some facilities may cancel annual leave to cover staffing. I won't be too happy if I have to cancel my vacation I booked for this summer.

I'm not really up to speed on all the legal mumbo jumbo or technicalities involved with this sequestration, but this time it's supposed to be different. Supposedly the law requires a 5% budget cut from all budgets, including the operating budget. All the past FAA budget issues allowed them to just shift money out of R&D budget for example to the operating budget, but they cannot do that this time (we never faced sequestration before, at least as long as I've been in the agency). That's why controllers are also getting furloughs, and not just your admin people and research people.

Also, we shouldn't forget our friends in Airways Facilities (Tech Ops) who keep our equipment running. God knows things break at my facility constantly and we need them to fix it, not to mention their work on tall the airport navaids.
I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
 
Boeing717200
Posts: 1761
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:11 pm

Quoting wagz (Reply 27):

Says the political appointees trying to drum up fear in the rank and file. Your salary comes form airlines ticket taxes and fuel taxes. The only thing at risk is your benefits package that and maybe next gen which has been an enormous waste of money to date. Anyone telling you you're going to get a furlough is someone who doesn't understand the financial obligations of the trust fund.
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:03 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 28):
Anyone telling you you're going to get a furlough is someone who doesn't understand the financial obligations of the trust fund.

The trust fund is simply a stream of revenue, but it has NOTHING to do with the sequestration and it cannot prevent cuts. As is, the trust fund does NOT cover the cost of the entire FAA operations budget. The trust fund does NOT obligate the FAA to keep every controller working, nor does it require a minimum level of staffing be maintained.

The FAA has already announced that they will make cuts to the operations budget as required by sequestration. And that they will furlough ops employees 11 days during the remainder of the fiscal year. The FAA could try to avoid furloughing controllers, by making even deeper cuts in admin/tech ops type spending, but that isn't totally feasible.
 
Boeing717200
Posts: 1761
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:15 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 29):

Sequestration does not impact off budget accounts that cannot be raided like the AATF. Only $3 billion of the FAAs total $15 billion budget relies on general fund tax revenue. The AATF currently has a $10 billion surplus. There are no threats to the operation of the ATC system.

The notion of cuts is the same myth that was perpetrated by the government when the FAA didn't have a budget authorization in 2011. Nothing happened to the operation all of the cuts came from outside the operation becaus the government is obligated to continue operations.

How soon we forget the false claims of political appointees...

http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=12943

Sequestration doesn't stop the flow of AATF revenue from the operation of the aviation system.

[Edited 2013-02-20 10:22:42]
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1807
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:17 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 26):
Actually, they won't cut a dime from the operating budget.

According to the FAA Adminstrator:
"Sequestration would force the FAA to cut back on operating costs by reducing the core services we provide."
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:21 pm

Let the sequester happen. You can bet there are thousands of threads like thus one urging readers to contact congress over one program or another. The neo cons are up in arms over military cuts. But everything needs cutting and stream lining.
 
Boeing717200
Posts: 1761
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2013 3:26 pm

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:23 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 31):

According to a political appointee.

A slightly dated but mostly accurate fact sheet on the AATF. The claims of draconian FAA cuts simply don't jive with the revenue streams. If their budget split was the other way around then yeah there would be a problem but the general fund impact and the very minor cuts simply aren't enough to have a major impact. Too much of the FAA budget is from non-government resources.

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/...apl/aatf/media/AATF_Fact_Sheet.pdf

[Edited 2013-02-20 10:29:45]
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5258
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:31 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 30):
Sequestration does not impact off budget accounts that cannot be raided like the AATF. Only $3 billion of the FAAs total $15 billion budget relies on general fund tax revenue. The AATF currently has a $10 billion surplus. There are no threats to the operation of the ATC system.

You're confusing the revenue side of the ledger with the expense side. Regardless of how much revenue the FAA takes in via the AATF, they have been directed to cut the expense side of the ledger (including operational expenses).

Now they could shield the ops budget, by putting all the cuts on admin, facilities&equipment and R&D, but that is not the path they are taking.
 
Boeing717200
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:34 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 34):

They have an obligation to shield the ops budget, ATC in particular. Claiming they won't is a scare tactic to get what they want. This is political, nothing more. It's also shameful.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:37 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 30):
The notion of cuts is the same myth that was perpetrated by the government when the FAA didn't have a budget authorization in 2011. Nothing happened to the operation all of the cuts came from outside the operation becaus the government is obligated to continue operations.



Was that in 2011 or last year? Regardless they did not furlough essential employees such as controllers or support staff however; many working on special projects or support of the projects did get furloughed.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
slider
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:39 pm

Quoting frmrcapcadet (Reply 12):
And posters need to keep in mind that the federal budget roughly represents a concensus of American wishes.

NO it most certainly does not!! The oligarchs spend as they wish, irrespective of the wishes of the people. Let's be clear on that.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 15):
The US government has not passed a budget in - how many years? We should furlough the legislative and executive branches.

It's been 1,392 days since the US Senate passed a budget in this country. April 29, 2009 was the last time. The entire Federal government has since been operating under continuing spending resolutions.


****

As for the FAA, as much compassion as I'd like to have for the rank and file front line, that is one adminstration that is bloated, wasteful and politically off track. We've pissed away untold billions on ATC reform and aren't terribly far ahead where we were. It's ridiculous how Flight Standards, among others, operate. Cut the fat. Automate. Deliver the goods as if you were private sector.

Until or unless that happens, I'm not weeping over cutting a pithy $85B from a $1.3TRILLION budget. That's a pittance...it's 2.3% and the sequestration only cuts what the planned INCREASE in spending was already slated for--it's all smoke and mirrors. Don't believe the hype.
 
Boeing717200
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:41 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 36):

Late 2011. I think they signed the reauthorization in 2012. Seems longer ago than that. But yeah, non-op suffered however operations continued even with the loss of the revenue stream. A problem we don't have this time around.

Personally I want to see a formula that gets rid of all the general fund obligations for aviation. A small uptick in passengers fees and fuel taxes would do the trick.

[Edited 2013-02-20 10:45:11]
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 30):
The notion of cuts is the same myth that was perpetrated by the government when the FAA didn't have a budget authorization in 2011. Nothing happened to the operation all of the cuts came from outside the operation becaus the government is obligated to continue operations.

The FAA Budget Reauthorization was only about the F&E budget, so of course there was no impact on operations. However, this time the cuts will come from the operations budget as well as F&E.

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 35):
They have an obligation to shield the ops budget, ATC in particular.

No they don't. There is no legal obligation to maintain the complete ops budget based on AATF revenues. It might be the ideal thing to do, but it is NOT an obligation. The FAA has freedom to adjust ops spending as it sees fit, regardless of AATF revenue.

I will agree however that the overall impact of these cuts on operations will be relatively small. There's enough fat in the ops budget to make these cuts without noticeably degrading service.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:54 pm

Quoting slider (Reply 37):
It's ridiculous how Flight Standards, among others, operate


Now you're on to something which should have a crime scene tape around the entire organization!

IMHO it is incredible how much those folks have wasted on projects that made sense, worked just fine in operational demonstrations and were perfectly safe only to grind them to a complete halt with their jurassic thinking.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
Boeing717200
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:01 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 40):

Flight procedures is a mess too. Been working on some RNP projects lately and it's insane the way they are inflexible in the scheduling of procedure approval and release, even whe someone else is doing all the leg work. It's like pulling teeth getting them to update procedures if there is a change in the obstacle environment, which is disturbing to say the least. I've seen DPs and APs go unchanged for years when our own analysis shows there should be an increase in minimums or climb gradients, and in a few cases improvements because of obstacle removal. It's just broken. That's the only way to describe it.
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:11 pm

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 41):
Flight procedures is a mess too. Been working on some RNP projects lately and it's insane the way they are inflexible in the scheduling of procedure approval and release, even whe someone else is doing all the leg work. It's like pulling teeth getting them to update procedures if there is a change in the obstacle environment, which is disturbing to say the least. I've seen DPs and APs go unchanged for years when our own analysis shows there should be an increase in minimums or climb gradients, and in a few cases improvements because of obstacle removal. It's just broken. That's the only way to describe it.



They'll be part of a furlough as well which will certainly toss the entire slow charting process into a toilet. Then that backlog will spill over into Flight Inspection and there you will have the meltdown of scheduling.

Some Flight Procedures Team folks work really well and I had the pleasure of working with such a dude. If left to his own devices which happened quite often thankfully, he was able to convince higher ups that the amendment needed to happen on a particular chart date and got it done, otherwise years would come to pass.
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
Flighty
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:54 pm

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 42):
They'll be part of a furlough as well which will certainly toss the entire slow charting process into a toilet. Then that backlog will spill over into Flight Inspection and there you will have the meltdown of scheduling.

They need to hire budget analysts and learn how to make *more* product on far, far less money.

That's how the rest of us ALL do it.
 
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:04 pm

Quoting wagz (Reply 27):
All the past FAA budget issues allowed them to just shift money out of R&D budget for example to the operating budget

This country will suffer in 15 years due to all the R&D cuts.  
I came out of aerospace R&D. The money isn't there anywhere. Any more cutting and useful fixes under development will not happen.

Quoting slider (Reply 37):
It's been 1,392 days since the US Senate passed a budget in this country. April 29, 2009 was the last time. The entire Federal government has since been operating under continuing spending resolutions.

That needs to stop. We need to take our medicine and cut. Too many programs are not part of the 5% cut. The reality is the 'non-discretionary' part of the budget must be revisited as that is too much of the budget.

Quoting slider (Reply 37):
Until or unless that happens, I'm not weeping over cutting a pithy $85B from a $1.3TRILLION budget. That's a pittance...it's 2.3% and the sequestration only cuts what the planned INCREASE in spending was already slated for--it's all smoke and mirrors. Don't believe the hype.

Funny how 5% becomes 2.3%....   

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:18 pm

FWIW, air navigation services have been privatized in Canada: http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.as...efinitionFilesAboutUsDefault.xml Seems to be working well.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:30 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 45):

Yup. But it will never be privatized in the USA. It is a dumping ground for political patronage. The usual suspects will scare monger and say a private. ATC would be too dangerous.
 
Flighty
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:50 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 48):
Because to do that would require massive layoffs of 5-10 million people...mostly in the private sector.

Yes, but it doesn't justify continuing on this path. Most of those 5-10 million should not have been hired. The market didn't pay for them; political patronage did. But even politically, this patronage is unsustainable. Things will get bad enough eventually we will all scream. Look at Argentina. Their debate is how far can you pervert your financial policy and still have a surviving country.

In any event, major corporations don't want to be based in Argentina and be on the hook to pay for an unlimited government shit show. Same applies to the US.
 
mmedford
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:59 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 49):
Yup. But it will never be privatized in the USA. It is a dumping ground for political patronage. The usual suspects will scare monger and say a private. ATC would be too dangerous.

The reality is; most of the critical restorations that happen which are unseen by the public are possible because of the ability to purchase tools, materials and added redundancies without the need to jump through corporate policies which are in place in the private sector.

Sure private ATC may sound like a good idea on paper, but the reason things work with the reliability and integrity that we have today, is because we plan for the 1% when the shit hits the fan...not the 99% when conditions are ideal.

Contact the FAA and request numbers on our equipment avaliability, and compare those numbers to those in countries with privatized services. You'll see a difference.
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
superjeff
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:10 pm

Quoting frmrcapcadet (Reply 12):
This Ezra Klein article discusses the deficit, and includes the CBO projected spending chart in the main government spending sectors. It is fairly non-controversial that medical spending is crowding out most of the other spending. And posters need to keep in mind that the federal budget roughly represents a concensus of American wishes

Not so sure. The administration is very much idealogically driven. Sequestration was proposed by Obama, not Congress. And most people are more concerned about spending (which unfortunately the administration won't address) rather than taxing - and Obama just got perhaps the largest tax increase in history.

I don't think a*net is the right place for a political discussion.
 
NBGSkyGod
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RE: FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration

Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:33 pm

To be totally honest, the FAA needs to look at further (not total) privatization of some of the slower D and C primary towers over to the FCT program. The over-bloat of staffing in these facilities is ridiculous vs. a FCT. A facility in my area is a C primary tower only that does maybe 200 ops a day, nearly the same as several of the local FCTs. The FCTs do it with less than half the staff and just as safely.
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