JAGflyer
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Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:47 am

On the news this evening they mentioned the Lufthansa A340-300 bound for Frankfurt from YYZ had reported smoke from an engine, presumably while taxiing. The pilots chose to use the fire suppression system. I cannot find any stories online about the incident however the details I provided sound plausible.

GTAA shows:

LUFTHANSA LH471 FRANKFURT Feb 16, 18:30 Feb 17, 00:30 Delayed
LUFTHANSA LH2471 FRANKFURT Feb 16, 22:00 Feb 16, 22:00 Cancelled

The regular flight number would have been DLH471. There is only one LH flight to YYZ daily so I'm not sure why it shows two departures? The A340 is most likely not leaving tonight. What is the requirement for mx after a fire bottle is used in an engine? Obviously the bottle (which is actually more like a sphere) needs to be replaced but what about inspection/cleaning of the engine core?
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YYZatcboy
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:48 am

Already being discussed

What Is Going On At YYZ? (by SpaceshipDC10 Feb 16 2013 in Civil Aviation)
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bakersdozen
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:39 am

Really not being discussed in your other thread, it's about the weather diversions mainly with little mention of LH and an obscure subject... I think this may warrant a new topic if details emerge?

[Edited 2013-02-16 21:40:59]
 
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 12:30 pm

Quoting JAGflyer (Thread starter):
The regular flight number would have been DLH471. There is only one LH flight to YYZ daily so I'm not sure why it shows two departures?
Quoting JAGflyer (Thread starter):
LUFTHANSA LH471 FRANKFURT Feb 16, 18:30 Feb 17, 00:30 Delayed
LUFTHANSA LH2471 FRANKFURT Feb 16, 22:00 Feb 16, 22:00 Cancelled

Sometimes AC change its flights numbers when they are too late due to technical problems. The thing here is that LH2471 is the flight number for LHR-MUC route. LH471 finally left at 03:32, a good nine hours late, and per Flightaware, it's heading to DUB. Not sure if it's accurate or not.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:43 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 3):
The thing here is that LH2471 is the flight number for LHR-MUC route

It's the flight number, but not sure if it's the callsign. It is customary in Europe for operators to change the callsign of the flight into a combination of letters and numbers, due to the congested airspaces everywhere and similary sounding callsigns without the use of letters.

ex. LH2471 LHR-MUC, might use a callsign like LH 2XP (Lufthansa 2 xray papa).

thenoflyzone
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 2:50 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 4):
It is customary in Europe for operators to change the callsign of the flight into a combination of letters and numbers

I've indeed noticed that.

LH471 is over Ireland and descending towards DUB.
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:10 pm

DLH471 is approaching DUB from YYZ. I'm not sure if it is a diversion or a scheduled stop. Is it possible that they blew a fire bottle into the engine but still managed to get out of YYZ yesterday night?
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:24 pm

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 6):
I'm not sure if it is a diversion or a scheduled stop

Lufthansa.com shows it as a diversion. The flight should depart from DUB at 6PM. The stop was perhaps a matter of hours in duty for the crew.

[Edited 2013-02-17 07:28:25]
 
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aerdingus
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:38 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 5):
LH471 is over Ireland and descending towards DUB.

Yep. Saw it arriving around 30 mins ago. Nice to see. At first I was like wtf but then I remembered this thread.
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earlynff
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:40 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 4):
It's the flight number, but not sure if it's the callsign. It is customary in Europe for operators to change the callsign of the flight into a combination of letters and numbers, due to the congested airspaces everywhere and similary sounding callsigns without the use of letters.

ex. LH2471 LHR-MUC, might use a callsign like LH 2XP (Lufthansa 2 xray papa).

as far as I know they use these (alphanumerical?) type flight numbers only in europe.

They use the original flight numbers on intercontinental flights, however the number is NOT changed once entering european airspace!
 
madviking
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 4:52 pm

Quoting JAGflyer (Thread starter):
LUFTHANSA LH471 FRANKFURT Feb 16, 18:30 Feb 17, 00:30 Delayed
LUFTHANSA LH2471 FRANKFURT Feb 16, 22:00 Feb 16, 22:00 Cancelled

One of the LH A340s from Friday evening did not depart, (why, I don't know?). It was parked on hardstand E17 Saturday morning. The smoking LH from Saturday night's incident is still here. It was towed to E12 after the incident at CDF and was still parked at E12 this morning (Sunday). Now I don't see it but assume it is in AC's hanger somewhere.

LH's 340 did not really cause a major backlog at YYZ other than blocking one of the pads with emergency services for a while. The big problem was, CDF had a lack of manpower and were barely capable of handling more than a few aircraft per hour, compounded by the fact that all aircraft required a longer than normal spraying due to the heavy snow fall in a short period, with temps falling below -10'C. Cathy, Eva, and an AC heavy waited two hours after pushing of their gates to get entry at CDF. KLM, Jet, Etihad plus several others were on the pads for over an hour to get sprayed.

CDF was caught off guard. On the VHF their excuse was, manpower was called in early and they had timed out so only a few staff were left to clear the backlog. Lame excuses! ATC was working superbly, and Joe who was on ground was having a tough time finding space to maneuver all the aircraft waiting to get to CDF.
 
cyxuk
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting JAGflyer (Thread starter):
There is only one LH flight to YYZ daily so I'm not sure why it shows two departures?

The airplane that flew to DUB was LH471 from Friday night which was delayed over 24 hours waiting for parts.

The flew to DUB to meet a crew that was awaiting the airplane to take it to FRA because the original crew was going to be over their duty time limits.

The aircraft supposed to fly LH471 from Saturday was grounded and is still in YYZ due to the fire suppression system being exhausted (there are only 2 CO2 packs, and both were used).
 
musapapaya
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:44 pm

Seems LH did not have a smooth few days in YYZ then, I am sure though that they have done whatever they can to keep the passengers going. its just that, in my little mind, LH is still the most reliable airlines around..

Quoting cyxuk (Reply 11):
The airplane that flew to DUB was LH471 from Friday night which was delayed over 24 hours waiting for parts.

Yes, this one went via DUB

Quoting cyxuk (Reply 11):
The aircraft supposed to fly LH471 from Saturday was grounded and is still in YYZ due to the fire suppression system being exhausted (there are only 2 CO2 packs, and both were used).

Is it taking them so long to fix a few CO2 bottles at such a major airport called YYZ?
Lufthansa Group of Airlines
 
loggat
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 7:59 pm

Quoting musapapaya (Reply 12):
Is it taking them so long to fix a few CO2 bottles at such a major airport called YYZ?

Well, if they blew the bottles in to the engine, then I imagine the engine would have to be replaced. Maybe the hold up is having the right engine available for replacement. As I understand it, the CFM-56 that is on an A340 is not the same as one used on a 737 or A320. Although AC does fly the A343, maybe they don't keep spare engines in YYZ. Either way, it might possibly be more cost effective for LH to cargo a new engine and fly their own Engineers to do the replacement.
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tjcab
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:15 pm

Quoting loggat (Reply 13):
Although AC does fly the A343, maybe they don't keep spare engines in YYZ. Either way, it might possibly be more cost effective for LH to cargo a new engine and fly their own Engineers to do the replacement.

they don't fly those anymore...
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:19 pm

Quoting loggat (Reply 13):
Although AC does fly the A343

No.
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yeelep
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:50 pm

Fire bottles do not discharge into the engine. They discharge between the core and nacelle/cowlings.

Quoting JAGflyer (Thread starter):
What is the requirement for mx after a fire bottle is used in an engine? Obviously the bottle (which is actually more like a sphere) needs to be replaced but what about inspection/cleaning of the engine core?

On the 737's I work on there is no maintenance/cleaning requirements after fire bottle discharge. Of course, what led the crew to discharge the bottle(s) needs to be identified and resolved.
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 8:54 pm

Quoting loggat (Reply 13):
As I understand it, the CFM-56 that is on an A340 is not the same as one used on a 737 or A320.

I believe the 321 and 340 share the same CFM-56... Could be mistaken though.
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 9:53 pm

Quoting loggat (Reply 13):
Although AC does fly the A343

It's been something like four years since AC dropped the A343 from its fleet.
 
brilondon
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:00 pm

I can't see a flight that is in MX as it was on time both today and yesterday.
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Gingersnap
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Sun Feb 17, 2013 11:32 pm

Quoting zbbylw (Reply 17):

They don't.

I will grant that the V2500 IAE engine looks similar to the CFM on the 342/3.
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Thenoflyzone
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:20 am

Quoting earlynff (Reply 9):
as far as I know they use these (alphanumerical?) type flight numbers only in europe.

well for at least 2 years (from around 2009-10 til around early 2012 i believe) BA sent in BA95 with the callsign BA8YG or BA8YM into YUL. The return flight back to Europe had the same callsign as the flight number, BA94.

Quoting earlynff (Reply 9):
however the number is NOT changed once entering european airspace!

Never meant to imply that they did.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-02-17 17:21:54]
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Flightsimboy
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:33 am

This is LH 470 arriving from Frankfurt yesterday evening Feb 16th as seen from EY 141.

 
earlynff
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:30 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 21):
Quoting earlynff (Reply 9):as far as I know they use these (alphanumerical?) type flight numbers only in europe.
well for at least 2 years (from around 2009-10 til around early 2012 i believe) BA sent in BA95 with the callsign BA8YG or BA8YM into YUL. The return flight back to Europe had the same callsign as the flight number, BA94.

sorry for misunderstanding, I was referring to LH only!
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Lufthansa A340 At YYZ: Engine Smoke

Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:02 am

Any news with the LH A340 at YYZ? Is it still in the AC hangar? I did not notice it parked outside today.
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