cessna53996
Topic Author
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:27 am

JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:10 am

B6 has had 3 visits to Worcester, one by the CEO himself, Dave Barger, so the feeling in Worcester is that B6 will be at ORH by the end of the year. The last meeting was with several key executives, and they said they'd make a decision by the end of the year. New Massport CEO Thomas Glynn said that if they were to come they would fly to MCO and FLL, both with the E190 and each 1x daily. Also Massport is moving forward with a CATIII ILS on 29/11, so the comittment for Massport is there. I'd still like to see them fly ORH-JFK, but ORH needs to sustain these 2 daily flights first!

http://www.telegram.com/article/2013...119918/1237/mobile&TEMPLATE=MOBILE

Worcester belives that JetBlue's sucess will produce a domino effect including DL, UA, and maybe even the 'new' AA.

DL: 3x daily 717 to ATL,
2x daily CRJ7 to DTW

UA: 2x daily CRJ7 to ORD
3x daily DH8-200 to EWR

Seeing the 717 in DL colors at ORH would be an incredible sight, and the 717 would be a great niche airplane with 110 seats. The CRJ2 may be a better plane for ORH-DTW, but with DL trying to outst it, it might not work.
Feeling a little blue in ORH, JetBlue.
 
point2point
Posts: 2080
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:14 am

Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter):
so the feeling in Worcester is that B6 will be at ORH by the end of the year.

If so.... would this not be 4 airports in the Boston area with scheduled commercial airline service, along with BOS, PVD and MHT?

And also if so.... all the best to B6, ORH, and the people in the area who may now have additional convenience with air service.


 
 
Q
Posts: 603
Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2000 10:29 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 1:45 am

Many years ago, Delta flew Boeing 727 from Boston to Manchester, NH to Worcester then New York LaGuardia daily.

Q
 
CairnterriAIR
Posts: 355
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:52 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:02 am

Not too long ago, Northwest, Piedmont, Continental, and UsAirways all flew out of Worcester. Tough market to serve being less the an hour away from BOS and 1.5 hours away from BDL. But with the right routes and fares, it could actually work.
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3812
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:28 am

Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter):

I'm not so sure DL would send the 717 if they started ORH. Maybe a daily CR7/9 like SWF had.
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
boslax
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:34 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:33 am

Lets not get too carried away about the viability of air service at Worcester. jetBlue is pretty smart. There's a bigger prize at BOS that Massport is dangling in front of jetBlue if they serve ORH. Revenue guarantees will need to be in place and the local community will need to contribute. The only way other network carriers will create a domino effect is if they are provided the same incentives that jetBlue will receive. Ground access is still a challenge at ORH. I believe jetBlue can fill two flights a day to Florida, however, it will very low yielding and come at a hefty price in terns of incentives.
 
BOStonsox
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:20 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:29 am

Quoting point2point (Reply 1):
If so.... would this not be 4 airports in the Boston area with scheduled commercial airline service, along with BOS, PVD and MHT?

Yes, but B6 hasn't started MHT, at least not yet.

Quoting boslax (Reply 5):
Ground access is still a challenge at ORH.

The big issue is the lack of highway access. I don't know why the street signs from Route 146 point traffic up I-290 to Route 122 when Cambridge Street from the end of the freeway is quicker, then up Main and Goddard. But there is the #19 bus from Union Station and maybe Massport will offer a shuttle there.
2013 World Series Champions!
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:10 am

Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 3):
Tough market to serve being less the an hour away from BOS and 1.5 hours away from BDL.

Also 1 Hour away from PVD and 75 minutes away from MHT.

I wonder if one should have built an airport equidistant from Hartford, Springfield, and Worcester.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:45 am

MCO/FLL service should be viable. Though I wonder why Allegiant hasnt tried it
 
boslax
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:34 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:07 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 8):
Though I wonder why Allegiant hasnt tried it

They actually did. Allegiant served ORH-SFB from December 2005 - August 2006. Load factors averaged 78%. When Allegiant abruptly left Worcester, the former Mayor of Worcester, and now Lieutenant Governor, Tim Murray, blasted Allegiant CEO Maurice Gallagher saying " This is not the type of guy we want to do business with, this is an example of the charlatans that exist in the corporate world." Don't expect Allegiant to return to ORH anytime soon.
 
nkops
Posts: 2153
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:21 pm

Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter):
Worcester belives that JetBlue's sucess will produce a domino effect including DL, UA, and maybe even the 'new' AA.

I got to admire their optimism, but has ORH ever had that much service at once..... I was actually thinking ORH would be a prime spot for F9 the way they are going right now
:evil:
 
cessna53996
Topic Author
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:27 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:29 pm

To my knowledge F9 only operates out of TTN 3-4 times per week, so that probably would not work because Massport only wants carriers at ORH that will operate daily flights, so for Allegiant, F9, or NK to work, they would have to operate daily flights. NK may work for flights to MYR, since Direct Air was pretty successful on that route.

Massport is trying to focus on the major carriers right now, primarily B6, along with DL, UA, and AA.
Feeling a little blue in ORH, JetBlue.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:04 pm

Your answer is no based on the article you included..

"Asked about JetBlue's plans for Worcester, spokeswoman Tamara Young said in a statement: “Worcester is JetBlue's kind of town — but we won't even be in a position to consider service until 2014.”

2014 could easily mean November/December 2014... which seems more likely in my book.

As far as other majors, I think at BEST....BEST you are looking at the following in the 5-10 year timeframe:

US 4x DH8 to PHL

UA 3x DH2 to EWR

DL 3x CRJ to DTW
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
boslax
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:34 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:24 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 12):
DL 3x CRJ to DTW

At the rate that Delta is removing CRJ's from their fleet, within 5 to 10 years, there will be very few flying around.
 
atct
Posts: 2472
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 6:42 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:53 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 12):
UA 3x DH2 to EWR

Didnt know UA Express had beavers...
Trikes are for kids!
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:59 pm

Quoting atct (Reply 14):
Didnt know UA Express had beavers...

Thats the term/code UA uses, not me!
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
cessna53996
Topic Author
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:27 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:22 pm

Quoting cessna53996 (Reply 11):
Your answer is no based on the article you included..

2014 could easily mean November/December 2014... which seems more likely in my book.

I saw another article, not about ORH, that stated that B6 is moving up delivery of 4 E190's to this year. This could easily bode well for ORH.
Feeling a little blue in ORH, JetBlue.
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 2528
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 5:31 pm

Quoting cessna53996 (Reply 16):
I saw another article, not about ORH, that stated that B6 is moving up delivery of 4 E190's to this year. This could easily bode well for ORH.

I think anyone would be foolish to believe that B6 would start ORH because they want to. If/when they do it, it will be because they pretty much have to as result of dealings/favors for Massport. ALB, ISP, MHT, Florida to from BTV/PWM, expanded BDL/PVD all make sense before ORH.

When B6 starts ORH it is because their favor is due not because extra aircraft are available.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
airbazar
Posts: 6804
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 1):
If so.... would this not be 4 airports in the Boston area with scheduled commercial airline service, along with BOS, PVD and MHT?

To call ORH, PVD, MHT, Boston airport is a little disingenuous. PVD and MHT are not even in Massachusetts, let alone Boston. Yes, there is some overlap at the periphery of eachother's respective catchment areas but at the core each has it's own catchment area.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 6):
The big issue is the lack of highway access. I don't know why the street signs from Route 146 point traffic up I-290 to Route 122 when Cambridge Street from the end of the freeway is quicker, then up Main and Goddard. But there is the #19 bus from Union Station and maybe Massport will offer a shuttle there.

The difference is .2 miles. Hardly relevant   How many traffic lights does each route have?

At the end of the day, I would imagine that B6 has a bigger market in MHT than at ORH but is Massport of giving away free money, why not?
 
User avatar
adamh8297
Posts: 2062
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 11:56 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
The difference is .2 miles. Hardly relevant   How many traffic lights does each route have?

If that airport was on the other side of the city facing Boston it would have so much more potential.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AM, BA, B6, CO, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WN
 
NASBWI
Posts: 914
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:12 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:08 am

Quoting atct (Reply 14):
Didnt know UA Express had beavers...
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 15):
Thats the term/code UA uses, not me!

Indeed; checking flightstats.com, Commutair's Dash 8's are coded DH2 for the -200, and DH3 for the -300. Jazz does the same thing, as does Horizon (DH4). Piedmont used to, but now it seems they're all coded DH8.
Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
 
usctrojan18
Posts: 88
Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:23 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:27 am

I would love to see an E-190 quick hop from MHT to JFK on B6 and maybe add MCO, or FLL to challenge WN. Also, what are the chances BDL gets west coast service on B6, maybe LGB, LAX or OAK?
 
tharanga
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:29 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:02 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
at the core each has it's own catchment area.

I agree with that. though even from the cores, people will travel to the more distant airport if the price or availability of nonstops is right.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
PVD and MHT are not even in Massachusetts

but this is irrelevant
 
BOS2LAF
Posts: 353
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 8:21 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:05 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
but is Massport of giving away free money, why not?

It wouldn't be due to incentives. As several posters here have said, it's most likely a favor to Massport. "You throw us a bone with Terminal C, and we'll throw you a bone at ORH."
 
Jerseyguy
Posts: 2011
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:05 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:16 am

Quoting cessna53996 (Reply 11):
To my knowledge F9 only operates out of TTN 3-4 times per week, so that probably would not work because Massport only wants carriers at ORH that will operate daily flights

Not saying anything as far as if F9 should consider ORH but F9 will offer 6X Weekly (except Sat) service to RDU and MDW from TTN starting April 8th.
Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18104
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 1:51 am

Quoting boslax (Reply 9):
Allegiant served ORH-SFB from December 2005 - August 2006. Load factors averaged 78%. When Allegiant abruptly left Worcester, the former Mayor of Worcester, and now Lieutenant Governor, Tim Murray, blasted Allegiant CEO Maurice Gallagher saying " This is not the type of guy we want to do business with, this is an example of the charlatans that exist in the corporate world."

In past times, Massport have not always been exactly 'gentlemen' in their dealings. Maybe they've changed.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-19 17:53:12]
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 3331
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:14 am

The elephant in the living room is that JetBlue wouldn't go to Worcester unless they could extract a pound of flesh from Massport to do so: "If I do X you need to do Y." Boston is the prize and Worcester is just a pawn.

Not that there's any lack of it now, but if B6 goes to Worcester and not Manchester the management at MHT will feel the heat. You can say that MHT is 'too close to Boston' all you want, but it's no closer to Boston now than it was in the mid-2000s when UA was flying and filling 757s there. I know...I was on them regularly.
 
BOStonsox
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:20 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 4:49 am

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
The difference is .2 miles. Hardly relevant   How many traffic lights does each route have?

I haven't been up to Worcester in a while, I don't know about Route 122, but the route I mentioned has about eight lights and avoids Downtown as well as any colleges.

When I was living up there, shortly after I had moved up, my mom and grandmother came up to see me and I gave them a tour of where I rode my bike the day before. I took them down the hill on Airport Street, and my mom said, "You rode down THAT?" It's probably not the best hill to be driving down in the winter.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
To call ORH, PVD, MHT, Boston airport is a little disingenuous. PVD and MHT are not even in Massachusetts, let alone Boston. Yes, there is some overlap at the periphery of eachother's respective catchment areas but at the core each has it's own catchment area.

The problem with Worcester is that it doesn't have the economic pull that Providence, Manchester, or Springfield/Hartford have. I have lived less than an hour from Worcester my whole life and so far the only trip I have made up there that had nothing to do with Clark University (where I looked at going for my undergrad and later got my master's degree) was a trip to the Higgins Armory when I was maybe seven years old. It doesn't even have a shopping center the way Providence has Providence Place or Manchester has the Mall of New Hampshire.

I do think that Worcester could support some service, but it has to do some advertising outside of the Worcester area.

[Edited 2013-02-19 20:51:26]
2013 World Series Champions!
 
User avatar
chrisnh
Posts: 3331
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 1999 3:59 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:45 am

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 27):
I do think that Worcester could support some service, but it has to do some advertising outside of the Worcester area.

Or, if Massport does it for them. This is one of those, "You Won't Even Have to Lift a Finger" proposals floated by Massport to help make THEIR white elephant pay for itself. JetBlue has reached Southwest-like clout, so they can extract pounds of flesh from communities feverishly trying to connect themselves to other places.

And if JetBlue DOES go to Worcester, it will represent the FIRST time they will be seen to have made a misstep. Imagine the caterwauling and laughing that would occur if JetBlue announced Branson, MO. Same sort of deal.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4460
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:27 pm

Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter):
DL: 3x daily 717 to ATL,
2x daily CRJ7 to DTW

i believe that is a bit excessive fo DL unless they recieve significant financial help
 
airbazar
Posts: 6804
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:14 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 26):
The elephant in the living room is that JetBlue wouldn't go to Worcester unless they could extract a pound of flesh from Massport to do so: "If I do X you need to do Y." Boston is the prize and Worcester is just a pawn.

I'm not seeing it.

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 23):
It wouldn't be due to incentives. As several posters here have said, it's most likely a favor to Massport. "You throw us a bone with Terminal C, and we'll throw you a bone at ORH."

What kind of bone? B6 already has everything they need at BOS. They have terminal C all to themselves and Massport is already commited to building the airside connector between C and E which is not tied to B6 but rather it's the airport's own plans to link all terminals post security. What else could B6 need at BOS that would justify losing fistfulls of money in ORH? Unless Massport is giving them financial guarantees, I don't see B6 starting service to ORH.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 3932
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:21 pm

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 28):
And if JetBlue DOES go to Worcester, it will represent the FIRST time they will be seen to have made a misstep. Imagine the caterwauling and laughing that would occur if JetBlue announced Branson, MO. Same sort of deal.

B6 does politics well. The reason BUF, SYR, ROC, and BTV are served with consistent frequency was a deal for 75 slot exemptions with Chuck Schumer and his counterpart from Vermont.

All seem to be profitable.

Then came SWF, another favor for Chuck...and that likely isnt profitable. Then he came calling with ISP (which given WNs pulldown, is likely a messy market) and B6 balked.

I do not think you will see B6 at ORH.

I think you will see continued expansion out of BDL and PVD until they are both linked with all cities in FL (Sans JAX) and SJU. Then you may see ISP enter the picture.
 
ScottB
Posts: 5413
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 5:24 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 30):
What kind of bone? B6 already has everything they need at BOS. They have terminal C all to themselves and Massport is already commited to building the airside connector between C and E which is not tied to B6 but rather it's the airport's own plans to link all terminals post security. What else could B6 need at BOS that would justify losing fistfulls of money in ORH?

They may want WN's Terminal E gates. They may want VX's gates in Terminal B if a post-security connector is to be built between B & C. Maybe they'd want an expansion of Terminal E in 5 years if they plan to launch transatlantic service at some point. Perhaps they were trying to curry favor with the former mayor of Worcester who looked like he had the inside track to be the next governor until his political future became a lot more cloudy.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 28):
This is one of those, "You Won't Even Have to Lift a Finger" proposals floated by Massport to help make THEIR white elephant pay for itself.

Well, to be perfectly honest, ORH is really the City of Worcester's white elephant that Massport bailed them out of.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 19):
If that airport was on the other side of the city facing Boston it would have so much more potential.

It doesn't even have to be on the East side of the city. It just has to have adequate highway access. Driving a circuitous 5-mile route on Worcester city streets with 30 mph limits and plenty of traffic lights just won't cut it. PVD and MHT both have excellent highway access.
 
airbazar
Posts: 6804
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:39 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 32):

They may want WN's Terminal E gates. They may want VX's gates in Terminal B if a post-security connector is to be built between B & C.

They are getting 10? gates next year when UA leaves terminal C, plus they can have access to any non-WN gates in terminal E because they are all common use gates. Terminal E is only busy in the evenings. They will have as many gates at BOS as they have today at JFK. That's more gates than they'll ever need for a very long time.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 32):
Maybe they'd want an expansion of Terminal E in 5 years if they plan to launch transatlantic service at some point.

They can do that today if they want to. No reason to expand terminal E unless there's a significant increase in TATL frequencies which I doubt. AA is droping their TATL routes as we know it.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 32):
It doesn't even have to be on the East side of the city. It just has to have adequate highway access. Driving a circuitous 5-mile route on Worcester city streets with 30 mph limits and plenty of traffic lights just won't cut it. PVD and MHT both have excellent highway access.

It kinda has to be to the East because that's where most people live and work. I just don't see where it could be built build given that ORH is surounded by residential neighborhoods and conservation land.
 
ScottB
Posts: 5413
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:41 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 33):
They are getting 10? gates next year when UA leaves terminal C, plus they can have access to any non-WN gates in terminal E because they are all common use gates. Terminal E is only busy in the evenings. They will have as many gates at BOS as they have today at JFK. That's more gates than they'll ever need for a very long time.

I believe they're only getting six or seven as they already have use of a few of UA's gates in C. Their domestic operation at BOS is roughly 80% the size of their domestic operation at JFK, so it's not entirely far-fetched to think that BOS could outgrow JFK for them. IMO the DL hub at LGA poses significant challenges to JetBlue's domestic operation from JFK outside of Florida and beyond-perimeter. The WN gates in E would be attractive because they are closer and they're not common-use. And I don't think ANYONE would have thought ten years ago that B6 would become the largest carrier at BOS.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 33):
They can do that today if they want to. No reason to expand terminal E unless there's a significant increase in TATL frequencies which I doubt. AA is droping their TATL routes as we know it.

AA is dropping their BOS-LHR & seasonal BOS-CDG, but those flights only arrived at E -- and BA is adding one BOS-LHR flight to backfill. If B6 were to hypothetically want to add LON/CDG/FRA from BOS at the normal transatlantic peak hours, there probably wouldn't be room for them. In that hypothetical situation, it helps to have Massport in their back pocket.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 33):
It kinda has to be to the East because that's where most people live and work.

The airport's current location would be fine -- if there were a freeway connector to I-290/I-190/Rte. 146.
 
flyby519
Posts: 1147
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 3:31 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:47 pm

Is there a direct bus service between the Worcester commuter rail station and the ORH airport? That might help spur traffic from areas east of ORH.
These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24522
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:53 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 34):
AA is dropping their BOS-LHR & seasonal BOS-CDG,

Actually, AA continues to fly BOS-CDG.
a.
 
BOStonsox
Posts: 525
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 5:20 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:03 pm

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 35):
Is there a direct bus service between the Worcester commuter rail station and the ORH airport? That might help spur traffic from areas east of ORH.

The WRTA is building a new bus hub at the commuter rail station to open later this year. Currently, the #19 bus goes from City Hall to the airport, so when the bus hub is built, there should be a bus from the train station to the airport. Union Station is also the intercity bus terminal for Worcester as well.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 38):
That is part of what I think Massport is trying to get out of this. They want leverage to push through a highway connector to the airport. Unfortunately the airport is in a very inaccessible place. People have been consistently calling for easy highway access to the airport, but it has always meet with very strong resistance from that part of the city.

Yeah, unfortunately, there is no easy way to build a highway. The end of Goddard Memorial Drive is almost two miles from I-290, too far for a tunnel.

[Edited 2013-02-20 15:38:40]
2013 World Series Champions!
 
cloudboy
Posts: 972
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:38 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:07 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 34):

The airport's current location would be fine -- if there were a freeway connector to I-290/I-190/Rte. 146.

That is part of what I think Massport is trying to get out of this. They want leverage to push through a highway connector to the airport. Unfortunately the airport is in a very inaccessible place. People have been consistently calling for easy highway access to the airport, but it has always meet with very strong resistance from that part of the city. On paper it makes so much sense - there is such a strong pull for business flyers from the 495 belt, but when airlines try to start service, all the passengers find it far easier to drive the extra half hour and get to an airport that offers a full weeks schedule and multiple flight options. As for leisure travelers, they still have to drive to Worcester - just as easy to head east on the Pike to Logan or south on 146 to TF Green.

This will be the 4th time they tried a Florida only service. There is just not enough traffic there. They would be much, much better served by a hub connection where you could get to multiple points. Particularly a NYC connection to capture the day business travelers and weekend flyers.

As for what JetBlue gets out of this? I think that putting an effort into starting service at ORH was probably a requirement from their past dealings. And while they are the big guy at BOS, they know they are not the only player in the game there, and they need to keep on Massport's good side. And if B6 is really interested in widebody jets, maybe they want to transitions some of their BOS flights to international flights and have airports like ORH and PVD bear the load of the low yield leisure markets.
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
 
airbazar
Posts: 6804
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:57 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 34):
I believe they're only getting six or seven as they already have use of a few of UA's gates in C. Their domestic operation at BOS is roughly 80% the size of their domestic operation at JFK, so it's not entirely far-fetched to think that BOS could outgrow JFK for them. IMO the DL hub at LGA poses significant challenges to JetBlue's domestic operation from JFK outside of Florida and beyond-perimeter. The WN gates in E would be attractive because they are closer and they're not common-use. And I don't think ANYONE would have thought ten years ago that B6 would become the largest carrier at BOS.

All valid points but I also think that B6 can squeeze far more out of the gates at BOS because BOS is not a hub so therefore their operations are not limited to connecting banks like they are at JFK. In addition, they can reconfigure terminal C and add more gates because the biggest plane they will ever operate from there in the foreseable future will be an A321.
I agree that the WN gates would be attractive to B6 but no amount of goodwill to Massport will get WN to move out of there until WN wants to move. It will all depend on how much WN grows at BOS because what they have right now is all they will ever get at terminal E.
 
ScottB
Posts: 5413
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: JetBlue At ORH By Year's End?

Thu Feb 21, 2013 5:28 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 39):
they can reconfigure terminal C and add more gates because the biggest plane they will ever operate from there in the foreseable future will be an A321.

I'm don't believe they can add any gates to Terminal C given the T-shaped design of the piers. The neck of each pier will accommodate two aircraft on each side. The gates on the heads of the piers were generally sized for 757's for both DL & UA, and the 757's wingspan is only about 13' larger than the A32X's. Across six or seven gates on each pier's head, there's not enough space to be gained for an additional gate, and creating several E190-only gates seems like a bad idea for operational flexibility.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 39):
I agree that the WN gates would be attractive to B6 but no amount of goodwill to Massport will get WN to move out of there until WN wants to move. It will all depend on how much WN grows at BOS because what they have right now is all they will ever get at terminal E.

Clearly Massport has some ability to pressure the carriers as the combined UA operation could have fit in the UA pier of Terminal C; the gates B6 uses on that pier are under subleases from UA. They've managed to get UA to agree to a split operation for an extended period of time while the expansion of Terminal B is built.

Long-term, B6 almost certainly would like to have Massport push WN over to Terminal A as that would bottle them up even more effectively than being at Terminal E; as you mentioned, most of Terminal E is empty outside of the evening transatlantic rush and WN could use (and has used) other gates in E when they're not in use for international operations.

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 38):
On paper it makes so much sense - there is such a strong pull for business flyers from the 495 belt, but when airlines try to start service, all the passengers find it far easier to drive the extra half hour and get to an airport that offers a full weeks schedule and multiple flight options.

I agree completely on the limited flight schedule; once- or sub-daily service just doesn't work for business travelers unless there's no nearby option. Why would a business traveler take an ORH-ORD/MDW flight at an inconvenient time when BOS-ORD/MDW is almost hourly among the various carriers flying? But I'd also argue that business along the 495 corridor has seen a bit of a decline over the past 20 years what with the reduction in the former DEC operations by its corporate successors.

Who is online