FlyPeoria
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DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:00 pm

According to its online schedules, Delta Air Lines is to start a second daily roundtrip between Bloomington-Normal (IL) and Atlanta on June 10 using an A-319! The first A-319 service on this route begins March 2-3. In both cases, Delta Connection RJ's are being replaced one for one.

Delta's introduction of mainline service to BMI in a couple of weeks will give that central Illinois community its first service by a Legacy in at least six decades (I believe both American Airlines and Chicago & Southern Airlines served BMI for a few years after WW2) and certainly the first time in the Jet Age.

It's interesting to see how different DL is from AA. AA (American Eagle) offers eight daily roundtrips from four central Illinois cities to DFW (1-BMI, 1-CMI, 3-PIA and 2-SPI) but DL offers six daily roundtrips to ATL from just two cities.

Hopefully, PIA-ATL will get CR7's eventually.

[Edited 2013-02-20 06:01:01]

[Edited 2013-02-20 06:01:34]

[Edited 2013-02-20 06:02:24]
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:04 pm

Well there is more volume thru ATL than thru DFW. That is the case for most cities in the USA east of the Mississippi. I can definitely see BMI-ATL at 3x 717s when Delta finally gets those aircraft.

The 319s will greatly boost low fare inventory and that will hurt PIA. It's always been my thought that Delta flies ATL to PIA only grudgingly. They would prefer everyone in central IL use BMI for ATL flights while retaining PIA to DTW and MSP.
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:29 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 1):
I can definitely see BMI-ATL at 3x 717s when Delta finally gets those aircraft.

Well hey, AirTran did it! No reason why DL couldn't fill 717s on a route that previously had them. Plus, everyone seems to see the trend DL has been taking lately with returning mainline service to cities that haven't seen it in years, and sometimes even decades.
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stlgph
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:32 pm

Historically, I was always amazed at the 'lack' of service, you could say, in central Illinois from United Airlines, being the 'hometown' Illinois carrier and all.
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:51 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 1):
The 319s will greatly boost low fare inventory and that will hurt PIA. It's always been my thought that Delta flies ATL to PIA only grudgingly. They would prefer everyone in central IL use BMI for ATL flights while retaining PIA to DTW and MSP.

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Bobloblaw
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:56 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 3):

Evidently they want people to take Peoria Charter Coach to ORD.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:08 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 2):
Well hey, AirTran did it! No reason why DL couldn't fill 717s on a route that previously had them. Plus, everyone seems to see the trend DL has been taking lately with returning mainline service to cities that haven't seen it in years, and sometimes even decades.

  

AVL, BMI, BTR, CHA, ILM, LEX, MYR, ROA, TYS to name a few
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MIflyer12
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:18 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 2):
Well hey, AirTran did it! No reason why DL couldn't fill 717s on a route that previously had them.

Look at the last few years of revenue per seat mile (up to just before AirTran was acquired). FL took average fares that DL may not. IMHO we might expect more capacity discipline from DL.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Wed Feb 20, 2013 11:35 pm

Quoting FlyPeoria (Thread starter):
It's interesting to see how different DL is from AA. AA (American Eagle) offers eight daily roundtrips from four central Illinois cities to DFW (1-BMI, 1-CMI, 3-PIA and 2-SPI) but DL offers six daily roundtrips to ATL from just two cities.

Those particular 4 cities are ones that had already been established by Ozark/TW and were just carried over to AA. DL established service to central Illinois much later that AA did.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 6):
AVL, BMI, BTR, CHA, ILM, LEX, MYR, ROA, TYS to name a few

Of those AVL, BTR, CHA, LEX & TYS were already established, before deregulation, some with 727s (and TYS with Tristars, for a short time). Those other cities were established in DL's system, much later, some with DCI service and not mainline.
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commavia
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Thu Feb 21, 2013 12:33 am

Quoting FlyPeoria (Thread starter):
AA (American Eagle) offers eight daily roundtrips from four central Illinois cities to DFW (1-BMI, 1-CMI, 3-PIA and 2-SPI)

I would not be surprised to see some of these routes/flights upgraded to 2-class large regional jets (likely CRJ700s displaced from ORD) in the next few years as Eagle draws down its ≤50 seats operation. I could easily imagine PIA and MLI - both currently flown with 3x daily ERJs - transitioned to 2x daily CR7s, for example.

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):
Those particular 4 cities are ones that had already been established by Ozark/TW and were just carried over to AA.

AA (and/or Eagle) was flying to all 4 of those cities - BMI, CMI, PIA and SPI - long before the merger with TWA (and its Ozark lineage). Those markets had all been linked to ORD continuously or near-continuously with props (including SAABs and ATRs) and then ERJs from ORD going back many, many years.
 
FSDan
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:40 am

It's too early to tell for sure whether this will stick (based on my experience DL finalizes the schedules 1-2 months out), but I wouldn't be surprised to see this stay since DL is focusing on replacing RJs with mainline where it makes sense.
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Bobloblaw
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:39 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):

2 daily CR7s will make AA uncompetitive versus UA. AA has to serve these markets 3x daily minimum.

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):

I'm not sure how strong DL was in AVL before deregulation. AVL was always a PI city not a DL city.
 
commavia
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:48 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 11):
2 daily CR7s will make AA uncompetitive versus UA. AA has to serve these markets 3x daily minimum.

Please explain. I fail to see how that would make AA noncompetitive - especially against UA.

In both of those markets, UA's schedule is heavily focused on ORD, with no more than 2x daily flights to/from DEN. AA will offer plenty of connectivity over ORD just as UA does, and could offer plenty of connectivity west and south via DFW - whether with 2 daily flights or 1, it's still as good or better than UA's schedule.

The premium cabin and slight net capacity reduction would help yields a bit in both of these markets, and if well-timed, the 2x daily pattern should be able to cater to virtually all of the same connecting traffic flows. I could see both of those markets having a pattern of roughly DFW departures at 1400 and 2000 and DFW inbound departures of around 0630 and 1700.

The only of all those markets I could see being a scheduling challenge is PIA given Caterpillar and the scheduling requirements to cater to the global markets Caterpillar needs to reach, including southbound DFW-Latin America redeyes and northbound Latin America-DFW morning arrivals.
 
mattya9
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:52 am

This is definitely great news for BMI! I'm curious now, how long with the 319 flights stay? Will they pull back to CR7/9's come the fall and winter? I'm assuming they will. Anyone have any idea?

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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:00 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):

Yes, true but I was alluding the the part where the poster said hadn't seen mainline (regularly scheduled) in years. Many not since 1995 when ASA took over the station's flying with 146s.
What gets measured gets done.
 
crj200faguy
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:05 am

Does every little midwestern airport have a cheerleader? PIA, FWA. etc
 
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Thu Feb 21, 2013 4:06 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 11):
I'm not sure how strong DL was in AVL before deregulation. AVL was always a PI city not a DL city.

We had direct flights out of ORD that went ORD-SDF-AVL, when I was at ORD in the 70s......I believe with DC-9s........AVL was dropped, IIRC, sometime in the 80s and was re-opened as a DCI station in the late 80s or early 90s.
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FlyPeoria
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Thu Feb 21, 2013 2:04 pm

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 15):
Does every little midwestern airport have a cheerleader? PIA, FWA. etc

Yes.  
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 1):
The 319s will greatly boost low fare inventory and that will hurt PIA. It's always been my thought that Delta flies ATL to PIA only grudgingly. They would prefer everyone in central IL use BMI for ATL flights while retaining PIA to DTW and MSP.

PIA is giving DL revenue gaurantees for its 3x daily ATL roundtrips, but service resumption was announced only days after FL announced its withdrawal from BMI. PIA had been trying to get them to restore that route for two years. I doubt they'll have to pay DL, as load factors have been reported as being quite good from the beginning.

If DL ever withdraws from the PIA-ATL market again, it leaves an opening for US flights to CLT (or AA to CLT if the merger is approved). A signficant number of Caterpillar biz traffic goes to North Carolina and South Carolina and could easily be served via CLT.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:20 pm

Quoting crj200faguy (Reply 15):

Definitely.

Quoting commavia (Reply 12):

Two daily flights will not be competitive with 4 daily flights. Business pax don't care about the F class on a 30 min flight. They care about schedule. A 2 daily flight pattern means the last flight from PIA either leaves too early in the day or the first arrival is too late. There is no such thing as a well timed 2 daily pattern when your competitor has 4 daily flights. If you're talking about DFW-PIA fine, though i think youll find PIA not thrilled about losing a flight. If you're talking about ORD-PIA no way wound that work.

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 17):

I could see a PIA-CLT flight that is an RON.
 
commavia
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:28 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 18):
If you're talking about DFW-PIA fine, though i think youll find PIA not thrilled about losing a flight. If you're talking about ORD-PIA no way wound that work.

My entire point was always about DFW - never ORD. Apologies if that was not clear. I was never suggesting AA go to only 2x daily in ORD-Central Illinois markets - I agree that would never be competitive. DFW, however, would make sense given the longer stage length, relative lack of competition for west- and south-bound connections, and global connectivity over DFW.
 
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:31 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):

AA (and/or Eagle) was flying to all 4 of those cities - BMI, CMI, PIA and SPI - long before the merger with TWA (and its Ozark lineage). Those markets had all been linked to ORD continuously or near-continuously with props (including SAABs and ATRs) and then ERJs from ORD going back many, many years.

some of these were even linked to the BNA hub as well...I know PIA for sure was.
 
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:11 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 16):
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 11):
I'm not sure how strong DL was in AVL before deregulation. AVL was always a PI city not a DL city.

We had direct flights out of ORD that went ORD-SDF-AVL, when I was at ORD in the 70s......I believe with DC-9s........AVL was dropped, IIRC, sometime in the 80s and was re-opened as a DCI station in the late 80s or early 90s.

DL did serve AVL prior to deregulation, but it was limited service--one or two flights a day, through places like TYS and CVG. PI was much stronger in the market (and in the Carolinas) for many years.

DL did return in the mid-1980s via DCI, and mainline returned to AVL around 1990 or 1991 before being discontinued in late 1995--before coming back again in 2012. DL has had the largest share of the market for a long time now.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:26 pm

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 20):

I think AA even flew RFD- BNA for a short while with a SF340.
 
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:52 pm

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 20):
Quoting commavia (Reply 9):

AA (and/or Eagle) was flying to all 4 of those cities - BMI, CMI, PIA and SPI - long before the merger with TWA (and its Ozark lineage). Those markets had all been linked to ORD continuously or near-continuously with props (including SAABs and ATRs) and then ERJs from ORD going back many, many years.

some of these were even linked to the BNA hub as well...I know PIA for sure was.

I know PIA, CMI and BMI were all connected to BNA, and I don't think SPI ever was.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 22):
I think AA even flew RFD- BNA for a short while with a SF340.

AA even flew MWA-BNA for a short time in the late 1980s. (I realize that's not central Illinois.)
 
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mayor
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:03 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 9):
AA (and/or Eagle) was flying to all 4 of those cities - BMI, CMI, PIA and SPI - long before the merger with TWA (and its Ozark lineage). Those markets had all been linked to ORD continuously or near-continuously with props (including SAABs and ATRs) and then ERJs from ORD going back many, many years.

Pre deregulation, these cities were ALL Ozark territory and possibly a couple of small carriers out of ORD, but no connection with AA. Ozark even had a freighter service (Fairchild) from ORD to PIA/MLI. That ended when they crashed the lone freighter into a hangar.
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Bobloblaw
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:09 pm

There was an airline that flew from PIA-CGX. Chicago and Southern. They went out of business when their plane crashed in PIA in Oct 1971 and their CEO was onboard I think.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:14 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 25):
Chicago and Southern.

Are you sure this was the name? Chicago and Southern merged with DL in '53.
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FlyPeoria
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:30 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 26):

Are you sure this was the name? Chicago and Southern merged with DL in '53.

Delta Air Lines let their legal ownership of the C&S name relapse and a Peoria-based upstart took it when it began operations in about 1969. The crash Boblolaw mentioned ended it for the company.

Quoting mayor (Reply 24):
Pre deregulation, these cities were ALL Ozark territory and possibly a couple of small carriers out of ORD, but no connection with AA. Ozark even had a freighter service (Fairchild) from ORD to PIA/MLI. That ended when they crashed the lone freighter into a hangar.
AA did operate an ORD-PIA-SPI-STL route until August 1962.

[Edited 2013-02-22 12:31:36]

[Edited 2013-02-22 12:32:30]
 
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mayor
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:49 pm

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 27):
Delta Air Lines let their legal ownership of the C&S name relapse and a Peoria-based upstart took it when it began operations in about 1969. The crash Boblolaw mentioned ended it for the company.

Thanks. Did not know that.

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 27):
Quoting mayor (Reply 24):
Pre deregulation, these cities were ALL Ozark territory and possibly a couple of small carriers out of ORD, but no connection with AA. Ozark even had a freighter service (Fairchild) from ORD to PIA/MLI. That ended when they crashed the lone freighter into a hangar.

AA did operate an ORD-PIA-SPI-STL route until August 1962.

Ok.....before my time at ORD. I wonder if this route was originally out of MDW until ORD opened?
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Bobloblaw
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:24 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 28):
Ok.....before my time at ORD. I wonder if this route was originally out of MDW until ORD opened?

I think it was MDW then switched to ORD. Ended in 1962. Ozark bought CV-240s to replicate the AA level of service. TW also flew I think it was MCI-UIN-PIA-MDW until 1960 with Martin 404s.
 
FlyPeoria
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:42 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 28):
AA did operate an ORD-PIA-SPI-STL route until August 1962.Ok.....before my time at ORD. I wonder if this route was originally out of MDW until ORD opened?

The date I have is that American Airlines switched its PIA & SPI flights from MDW to ORD on April 24, 1960. TWA dropped its single roundtrip ORD-PIA about the same time, so AA (which only weeks early announced its intent to leave PIA) graciously fill a service hole.

While I'm at it, OZ began PIA-ORD on May 1, 1961 and ended MDW flights one year later.

[Edited 2013-02-22 16:42:56]
 
FlyPeoria
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RE: DL ATL-BMI Gets 2nd 319 On June 10!

Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:54 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 29):
TW also flew I think it was MCI-UIN-PIA-MDW until 1960 with Martin 404s.

Not sure about UIN, but in the late 1950s, TWA was flying just one ORD-PIA-MKC* roundtrip. The PIA-MKC portion was dropped about late April 1959. The PIA-ORD flight endured another year.

*Kansas City Municipal Airport (Now Charles C. Wheeler Downtown Airport) served KC's airlines until 1972 when the three circle terminals of the Kansas City (former Mid-Continent) International Airport (MCI) opened.

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