PSU.DTW.SCE
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DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:58 pm

DL is returning 14 gates on Concourse B and UA is returning 1 gate in MEM as part of changes in lease agreements and escape clauses.

DL due to reduced flight schedule, and UA due to excess space post-merger.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...a-united-to-drop-gates-at-airport/
 
kordcj
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:05 pm

So much for the UA MEM hub people were hoping for haha.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
davescj
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:15 pm

If MEM Airport had any sense, the would demolish either A or C terminals and save the costs involved. DL is down to 90 flights a day, and unless there is some expansion, MEM has way too much capacity.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
Josh32121
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:27 pm

Quoting davescj (Reply 2):
If MEM Airport had any sense, the would demolish either A or C terminals and save the costs involved. DL is down to 90 flights a day, and unless there is some expansion, MEM has way too much capacity.

Dave

Demolishing is expensive, too. But I am surprised they haven't taken a page from PIT's book (and maybe STL's?) and just closed off some areas and put them into hibernation to save operating costs.
 
PacificF27
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:37 pm

What was Delta's highest number of departures from MEM and when?
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knope2001
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:09 pm

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 3):
Demolishing is expensive, too. But I am surprised they haven't taken a page from PIT's book (and maybe STL's?) and just closed off some areas and put them into hibernation to save operating costs.

Lots of airports are in a similar situation, including some which were never big hubs.

--The sharp move away from smaller planes means fewer filghts.

--Fewer airlines means fewer hubs...and fewer flights.

--Fewer airlines means the same number of flights can probably be served with fewer gates.


There's plenty of empty real estate at lots of airports, and I think we'll see more and more examples of airports consolidating and mothballing facilities.
 
PI4EVER
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:19 pm

I came through MEM during the Christmas holidays and noticed the extensive ramp work underway between B & C. Is this to update this area for DL to use just one wing of B and the other carriers needing work done in or near C? It was just a bit surprising to see such extensive work underway with so many empty gates so I assumed this was prep to eventually move DL to a more straight line area of B.
Quiet and serene in MEM on Christmas Day and although the weather played a part in delays the travel experience there was pleasant. Backyard Burger and a cold beer did not hurt either! The biggest pain I have with MEM is the rental car shuttle/drive off property to get and turn in vehicles, but an otherwise nice airport experience every time.
watch what you want. you may get it.
 
azjubilee
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:19 pm

Any idea which 14 gates on the B?
 
davescj
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:26 pm

Quoting PacificF27 (Reply 4):
What was Delta's highest number of departures from MEM and when?

I was told by the SC agents right after the merger they had about 200 departures from MEM daily.

Now - about 90.

On Sunday, when I was there this week, only 17 departures.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
as739x
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:58 pm

Quoting davescj (Reply 8):
I was told by the SC agents right after the merger they had about 200 departures from MEM daily.

All the more reason not to listen to pilots, flight attendants or customer service and their rumors
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
airguardtn
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:07 pm

MEM has a new rental car facility that is coming on line now at the terminal. So that will fix the rental situation. Once the tarmac between B and C is redone, they will start on the area between A and B. So there are many gates that have been affected currently and more that will be affected in the furture.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:13 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 5):
What was Delta's highest number of departures from MEM and when?

NW started a fourth bank flights in 6/2000, peaking to 244 flights (and another ~16 by DL to ATL and CVG in that era). The fourth bank didn't last long.

http://archives.californiaaviation.org/airport/msg05771.html
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:19 pm

Quoting azjubilee (Reply 7):
Any idea which 14 gates on the B?

B9-26 would be about that number, more or less. Just speculation on my part.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:28 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 9):
All the more reason not to listen to pilots, flight attendants or customer service and their rumors

Why? thats about right. MEM had "about" 200 flights when DL/NW happened
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
michman
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:31 pm

Quoting davescj (Reply 8):
I was told by the SC agents right after the merger they had about 200 departures from MEM daily.

Now - about 90.

On Sunday, when I was there this week, only 17 departures.

Dave

Huh? Sunday's should have fairly close to 90 departures on DL. It's Saturday when they run the drastically reduced schedule.

[Edited 2013-02-22 11:31:43]
 
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knope2001
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:21 pm

The guy who runs departedflights.com has a grid of Memphis totals for Southern/Republic/Northwest from 1977 to 2002.

http://www.departedflights.com/NWMEMhub.html

January 1987 (not long after the NW/RC merger) Memphis clocked in a 289 daily departures....211 mainline and 78 code share regional. Memphis ran at roughly 205-225 combined departures for the next dozen years close to a 55/45 mainline/regional split. Northwest ramped Memphis up again in 2000 and 2001, peaking at 265 departures (132 mainline 133 code share regional) in June of 2001. The last data set in this table is September 2002, when Memphis was 241/day, with a 114 mainline / 127 regional split. Things have of course ramped down significantly from that point.

Since both MEM and CVG are down to pretty comparable levels these days, it's interesting to note how far CVG has dropped to get to this point.

http://www.departedflights.com/DLCVGhub.html

Mainline peaked in December 1996 with 219, plus 241 RJ's . The lasdt data set in this table is June 2004, when CVG had 595 flights, 162 mainline and 433 regional. So while both MEM and CVG have plummeted a great deal to be where they are, the Memphis contraction isn't as bad proportionally.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 8:27 pm

I posted this in another thread discussing the NW hub days from onward from the mid-90s

MEM was historically a 3 bank hub that relied heavily on DC-9, 727, and turborprop aircraft. As 727s were phased out the A320 took its place. MEM got ARJs then got a heavy influx of CRJ aircraft to replace DC-9s & turboprops and/or add additional frequency.

MEM got a 4th bank that added an additional round of evening departures in about 2000, but it was then cut post-9/11. The 4th bank returned again for another brief period in about 2003-2004.

MEM never saw a significant amount of widebody (or even 757s) for that matter. MEM never saw more than 2-3 widebodies per day, and maybe about 5-10 757s at is peak. Yes AMS was operated by KLM MD-11, NW DC-10, NW/DL A330, and NW/DL 767. DTW & MSP saw DC-10 and 757 equipment on some flights throughout the day. Outside of those SEA & MCO saw 757 service:

Here is a breakdown of daily mainline operations:

June 1995: 111
DC9 77
320 20
727 7
757 6
MD11 1 (KLM- AMS)

June 2000: 132
DC9 87
319 4
320 25
727 5
757 9
DC10 2 (MSP & AMS)

June 2005: 92
DC9 54
319 18
320 17
757 3
DC10 1 (AMS)

June 2012: 35
DC9 5
319 5
320 13
M88 8
M90 2
738 1
767 1 (AMS)
 
JAAlbert
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:28 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 5):
There's plenty of empty real estate at lots of airports, and I think we'll see more and more examples of airports consolidating and mothballing facilities.

The reduction of service at MEM seems to be present at other airports as well:

I saw a recent google earth photo of Detroit's airport. The old north terminal, which is a huge building, had almost no planes parked at its gates. Almost all the activity appeared to be located at the new terminal. Is DTW planning on closing the north terminal?

I also recall that here in San Diego, prior to the economic collapse it was not uncommon to see a lengthy line of aircraft waiting its turn for take off at the end of the runway. Nowadays, aircraft waiting in cue at SAN is rather uncommon. What's happened? Is it fewer flights? SAN certainly isn't seeing larger planes for the most part.
 
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Polot
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:08 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 17):
I saw a recent google earth photo of Detroit's airport. The old north terminal, which is a huge building, had almost no planes parked at its gates. Almost all the activity appeared to be located at the new terminal. Is DTW planning on closing the north terminal?

Huh? The North Terminal is the new terminal. The terminal that it replaced, the Smith terminal ,is not used for passengers (just for administrative offices).
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Topic Author
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:20 am

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 17):
I saw a recent google earth photo of Detroit's airport. The old north terminal, which is a huge building, had almost no planes parked at its gates. Almost all the activity appeared to be located at the new terminal. Is DTW planning on closing the north terminal?

Not sure what you are thinking about.

McNamera Terminal - built in 2002 is where DL operates their hub and where Skyteam carriers operate.

The new North Terminal - opened in 2009, replaced the physical location of the Davey Terminal with a new linear design.
When the North Terminal opened, all other airlines moved over from the Smith Terminal.

The old Berry international terminal was shuttered and vacant. The Smith Terminal is vacant, except for administration offices in the terminal.

This is an entirely different situation than MEM or PIT. New terminals replaced old terminals which were planned to be shuttered but are not yet torn down.

Quoting Josh32121 (Reply 3):
Demolishing is expensive, too. But I am surprised they haven't taken a page from PIT's book (and maybe STL's?) and just closed off some areas and put them into hibernation to save operating costs.

Yep, unless the space is needed for other means, or if the space could still be functional the business case may not be there demolish a terminal.

DTW they will never use the Smith terminal again, but its cost money to demolish and remediate the site. There isn't enough steel to recover the cost of demolition as there is generally a lot of concrete used in the terminal construction.
 
michman
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:56 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 19):
The old Berry international terminal was shuttered and vacant. The Smith Terminal is vacant, except for administration offices in the terminal.

Anyone know the status of the plan to refurb the Berry terminal and move the administrative offices there from the Smith terminal? Seems like it was announced a couple years ago at least.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:47 am

MEM should think about shuttering the other concourses and just consolidating everything on B.
 
jetjeanes
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:59 am

In the past they have shutterd concourses over the years and probably will this time as well there are metal gates that can be brought down closing each one.. Now the center councourse i have seen it boarded up at the y junction..even with the few extra flights Wn is bringing in all these gates will not be needed. But Wn stated if the biz warranted it they would add more flights which could provide some connections vs Lit.. The center concource is the oldest and the 2 on each side were built in the mid and late 70,s
i can see for 80 miles
 
crj200faguy
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:02 pm

thank goodness there is going to be more space for southwests massive operation everyone thinks is coming. gonna need all the gates they can get for those 300 flights a day with 4 times per hour service to Orlando with $49 fares.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:21 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 19):
Not sure what you are thinking about.

Google earth shows the McNamera terminal and a terminal it tags as the North terminal. The north terminal (on google east at least) has virtually no planes parked at its gates, while the McNamera terminal is humming.
 
rangercarp
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:37 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 25):
Google earth shows the McNamera terminal and a terminal it tags as the North terminal. The north terminal (on google east at least) has virtually no planes parked at its gates, while the McNamera terminal is humming.

The picture probably caught it at a slow time of day. The terminal has 26 gates and serves 10 airlines. Early morning and early evening it is very busy.
iwgbtp!
 
davescj
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting michman (Reply 14):

You're right......But I think the Sunday was in front of a holiday weekend. That could have been the reason for the reduced Sunday schedule.

Dave
Can I have a mojito on this flight?
 
ouboy79
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:55 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 25):
Google earth shows the McNamera terminal and a terminal it tags as the North terminal. The north terminal (on google east at least) has virtually no planes parked at its gates, while the McNamera terminal is humming.

Just looked at Google Earth, well at least through maps.google.com, and still don't' see it. Not sure how familiar you are with DTW, but if you go to the North end by the DL hangars...that next terminal is the old Int'l terminal. Then you have the North Terminal that everyone is referencing. It is brand new and serves everyone who isn't in SkyTeam. As you slide down south you'll see all that remains of the old Smith Terminal (Berry Terminal was where the new North Terminal is).

Keep in mind one terminal is for a hub and the other is for everyone else. The hub is more likely to have planes there at the same time versus the other terminal.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:11 pm

Concourse A is where DL originally was back in the '70's and '80's at MEM. I think they were they initial tenant in that concourse after it was built in the mid 1970's. Delta previously occupied gates 3, 5 and 7 (?) as they were numbered at the time in what is now the B Concourse, with Piedmont using Gate 1, and Braniff using 2 and 4, IIRC.
I'm surprised DL is not giving up space in the A Terminal, as it seems like it has been mostly used for regional jet and turboprop traffic in the last few years.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:33 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 28):
Keep in mind one terminal is for a hub and the other is for everyone else. The hub is more likely to have planes there at the same time versus the other terminal.

Correct. Also, the DTW hub is still fairly banked, so it'll look very busy during a bank. At the North Terminal on google maps, I see a US Express CR9, a US Express ER4 (old colors), a WN 733, an AA 738, and an NK 320 parked along with an MQ Embraer that has just pushed and a US Express CR9 taxiing. That's not out of line for late morning or early afternoon. Based on the heavies at the McNamara terminal--a mix, but no 744s--I'm going to guess the picture was taken in the mid-afternoon, after the Asia flights were gone. That's a normal lineup at the North Terminal for that time of day.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
michman
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RE: DL & UA Relenquish Gates At MEM

Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:06 pm

Quoting rangercarp (Reply 26):
The picture probably caught it at a slow time of day. The terminal has 26 gates and serves 10 airlines. Early morning and early evening it is very busy.

Most certainly that's the case. I counted the gate utilization at the North Terminal yesterday and got 23 out of 26 gates in use. Here's the gate count by airline.

UA 5
US 4
NK 4
WN 3
AA 3
F9 1
FL 1
LH 1
AC 1

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