jsnww81
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UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:50 am

I was having dinner tonight with a friend from Cleveland who mentioned that he's booked tickets on a nonstop CLE-PDX flight this summer. I didn't think UA flew the route, so I went onto United.com to check and sure enough, there's one nonstop roundtrip leaving CLE at 6pm, arriving PDX just after 8pm. The return service is a redeye. Equipment is a 73G.

Great news for CLE... a mainline flight addition is always nice to see these days.
 
usctrojan18
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:13 am

I flew into CLE last summer and it was a nice little airport. Seemed kinda empty so the more service there the better. Especially to SAN, since it provides connections to some eastern cities.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:46 am

Looks like it runs daily June 6 through August 26.

Somehow I missed this in the OAG threads. I hope the route additions for our fair Rose City continue!
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SANFan
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:57 am

Very interesting! And I seem to have missed any announcement by UA about a brand new route as well!

I'm sorry but I'm really surprised by this; I just looked up the DOT stats and last summer (3Q12), PDX-CLE had a total O&D count of 126 pax/day. That equals ~63 PDEW and I don't understand a daily nonstop in that market. There would certainly be some connectors on board but... Someone please explain this one to me?

In any case, congrats to PDX on a new (and very unexpected) route... and from UA! (I bet it's been a while since that happened.)

bb
 
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STT757
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:59 am

It's a nice add for CLE, not sure if CO has flown CLE-PDX in the past. The only West Coast market missing is SAN, which has been served from CLE in the past. Kind of strange they would fly CLE-PDX and not CLE-SAN, figure there would be more traffic for SAN.
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AeroWesty
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:25 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):
Someone please explain this one to me?

Three months in summer—a nice red-eye from the west which helps keep UA's numbers at CLE up for the meantime. I don't think it needs much more explanation. Strategically, it looks like a nice win all 'round.
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SANFan
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:26 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
The only West Coast market missing is SAN, which has been served from CLE in the past. Kind of strange they would fly CLE-PDX and not CLE-SAN, figure there would be more traffic for SAN.

CO (UA) tends to fly CLE-SAN for about 15 days a year -- during Novembers, Decembers, and January -- and has done so for the last few years.

After seeing this thread about PDX-CLE, the first thing I checked was the schedules for CLE-SAN for the summer (since PDX-CLE hasn't been announced I wondered what else might be quietly starting.) Needless to say, there's no nonstop showing CLE-SAN.

The traffic between CLE and SAN last summer (3Q) was virtually identical to that of CLE-PDX. (And the O&D count between SAN and CLE was higher than PDX-CLE for the 1st and 2nd quarters of 2012.)

It is interesting to see a new route from CLE too. I didn't think that was happening much lately...

Oh well, some things are difficult to figure out but it is what it is. Again, good for Portland!

bb
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:30 am

Good for both ends! I am as surprised an anybody else to see a new mainline route out of CLE and, to be honest, I would've thought it would have been operated by an a319. Glad to see some PMCO metal still flying from PMCO hubs!

And before anybody corrects me and says that there is indeed CO metal at CO hubs, I hope you know what I meant by the joke. 
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IrishAyes
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:34 am

EXCELLENT NEWS! I am so proud of CLE.

I can see the logic behind this route as an alternative to ORD, DEN and IAH to get to the West coast. UA also has a pretty sizable operation in Portland. Received great customer service at the lounge there last month. Congrats to both cities on this!
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:46 am

Didn't see this coming either. Cool addition.
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tommy767
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:51 am

Good news for CLE! Would like to see CLE-SAN and SEA go year round as well
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
as739x
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:14 am

Checking Shares it appears to be a 73G Flight #70 CLE-PDX round-robin

CLE-PDX #70 1800-2007
PDX-CLE #70 2315-0630
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
lhpdx
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:18 am

This is great news for the city of Roses (Portland) and Cleveland! More summer flying options is always a good thing......
 
smed63
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:08 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
It's a nice add for CLE, not sure if CO has flown CLE-PDX in the past.

I remember flying CLE-PDX once in the early 2000s, I recall. No more specifics than that, sorry. But happy to see this seasonal addition to UA's schedule!
 
IAHFLYR
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:30 am

IMHO, any adds to PDX regardless of the origin is great. My wife grew up in the PDX area and we return frequently, only to find the IAH-PDX fares to be out of control as most from IAH. Maybe IAH-CLE-PDX would be a better fare?   Just sayin!
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USAirALB
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:47 am

Quoting smed63 (Reply 13):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):It's a nice add for CLE, not sure if CO has flown CLE-PDX in the past.
I remember flying CLE-PDX once in the early 2000s, I recall. No more specifics than that, sorry. But happy to see this seasonal addition to UA's schedule!

They did. I can't recall the year, but I believe CO flew CLE-PDX at one point..I think during the holiday season.
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AeroWesty
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:58 am

Quoting smed63 (Reply 13):
I remember flying CLE-PDX once in the early 2000s, I recall.

This old thread linked below indicates there was holiday service for at least what appears to be for four days around Thanksgiving 2004. Perhaps there was other seasonal service as well.

PDX Future Domestic Flights? (by Leneld May 26 2005 in Civil Aviation)
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cschleic
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:31 pm

With PDX having a high leisure component, a seasonal red-eye makes a lot of sense. And it might make use of a plane that would otherwise have limited evening use?
 
Noise
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:02 pm

Doesn't this addition run counter to the prevailing thought that UA is closing the CLE hub?
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:52 pm

Quoting Noise (Reply 18):

The difference is that publicly UA has admitted that CLE makes money. It will go away if it stops making money.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
izbtmnhd
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:58 pm

Quoting Noise (Reply 18):

Good point. It's actually running counter to the thought that CLE is grossly unprofitable which many on this forum (some with very high RR's) insisted was true back in 2010. UA has added BNA, OKC and PDX from CLE recently. Clearly there is a plan for the hub and it's not a money pit.
 
Noise
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:08 pm

Thanks for the feedback guys. I was under the impression that service has been cut recently from CLE. Am I wrong on that? I'm not from CLE so I don't know exactly what's going on. I hear things on airliners.net and I see CLE sandwiched between IAD, EWR and ORD and wonder whether UA has a plan for it besides scaling down. The addition of PDX and the others you mentioned comes as a surprise, albeit a pleasant one.
 
codc10
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:17 pm

It will be interesting to see what happens to CLE as UA starts to draw down 50-seaters. Right now it is safe as the economics of the hub are solid, but that might change if UA begins to push out the ERJs and phase in larger jets to replace them. Cleveland is dependent on the 50-seaters, so things will necessarily change as UA inevitably begins to rid itself of them.

I'm not saying the hub will close, but the dynamics will change as capacity is adjusted. It will be interesting to watch, and if it goes well, CLE will be the first hub that has successfully made the transition out from a primarily 50-seater-driven hub.
 
cargolex
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:21 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
. The only West Coast market missing is SAN, which has been served from CLE in the past

Uhm, what? SEA, and unsurprisingly YVR and SJC don't have direct service to/from CLE either.
 
izbtmnhd
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:32 pm

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 23):

CLE-SEA is seasonal on UA
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:38 am

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 22):
It will be interesting to see what happens to CLE as UA starts to draw down 50-seaters

I imagine that CLE will be the final hub with 50 seaters, assuming the fuel doesn't do something crazy. I could see the ideal replacement for the ERJs at CLE being more Q400s. With its relatively low operating cost the Q could do well at CLE on shorter stage lengths to OH, PA etc
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cle757
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:10 am

CLE has slowly added the CR7's and now the E170's so the 50 seat ERJ's are being replaced at CLE.
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RWA380
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:07 am

Quoting usctrojan18 (Reply 1):
I flew into CLE last summer and it was a nice little airport.
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
I hope the route additions for our fair Rose City continue!
Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
not sure if CO has flown CLE-PDX in the past.
Quoting smed63 (Reply 13):
I remember flying CLE-PDX once in the early 2000s,
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 15):

They did. I can't recall the year, but I believe CO flew CLE-PDX at one point..I think during the holiday season

Back in the day, CO flew a PDX-SEA-CLE flight on an M80, as a red-eye. I flew this once going to BOS, and yes CLE was a nice little airport to change planes at, as opposed to ORD, DTW and the like. I like these smaller connections MEM too!

CO has operated seasonal non-stops several different times between PDX & CLE.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
panam330
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:32 am

Quoting Cargolex (Reply 23):
Uhm, what? SEA, and unsurprisingly YVR and SJC don't have direct service to/from CLE either.

SEA is seasonal (as has been pointed out above), YVR is much too thin a market from CLE, and SJC is (arguably) served 2-3x daily through SFO.

Quoting cle757 (Reply 26):
CLE has slowly added the CR7's and now the E170's so the 50 seat ERJ's are being replaced at CLE.

What routes have the 70 seaters been put on? I'm curious to see if they're 1:1 replacements or if they're matching capacity.
 
masseybrown
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:26 am

Quoting cle757 (Reply 26):
CLE has slowly added the CR7's and now the E170's so the 50 seat ERJ's are being replaced at CLE.

Unfortunately these acft are being used to other hubs (ORD and DEN) and not on CLE spoke routes.

I agree that CLE is dependent on the 50-seaters; it appears, however, that the airlines have got fares cranked up to a level that supports the profitable operation of these planes. With CLE's high fare yields, the 50 seaters are at least as profitable in CLE as anywhere else.

What CLE needs to do is grow O&D back to where it used to be. These days it's around 12,000 pax a day - used to be 15,000.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:21 pm

CLE days as a hub are numbered. In the new TA just sent out to the IAM. The company has CLE grouped with the large stations for job security, and not with the hubs. This means, CLE can be outsourced after 2016 if the TA passes.
 
greenair727
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:05 pm

^ramprat74 -- is there anywhere I can publicly see a copy of the new TA? is it posted anywhere? --thanks.
 
coairman
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:50 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 26):

Those E170's are actually replacing mainline flights. Capacity is being reduced from A319/320/737's to a large regional jet on the first flights of the day to EWR and IAH.
The views I express are of my own, and not the company I work for.
 
masseybrown
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:07 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 30):
CLE days as a hub are numbered. In the new TA just sent out to the IAM. The company has CLE grouped with the large stations for job security, and not with the hubs. This means, CLE can be outsourced after 2016 if the TA passes.

Keeping their options open, it sounds like. That's not much different from what Smisek has been saying all along: CLE has to earn its way.
 
N766UA
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:10 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 30):
CLE days as a hub are numbered.

Wow, haven't heard THAT before!
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AeroWesty
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Tue Feb 26, 2013 10:31 pm

Well at least the Port of Portland has made an announcement about the flight:

http://www.portofportland.com/Notices/PDX_United_ancmnt_02_BLT.htm
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SANFan
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:16 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 35):
Well at least the Port of Portland has made an announcement about the flight.

Hey, how 'bout that, apparently PDX cares about the new route and seems interested in getting the word out! I notice that CLE doesn't, and neither does the airline itself...

Nothing like keeping something like this a deep dark secret while (I guess) hoping potential customers might happen to stumble on it when looking for flights in the booking engine.

bb
 
izbtmnhd
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:51 am

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 30):


Wasn't UA going to pull out after the teeth of the Ohio AG deal expired last fall? So many forum regulars went on and on about how the deal proved CLE was unprofitable. Can't seem to find their comments here.

So now we're down to a unverifiable Ramp Union document with a 2016 deadline to save face? My, how the "mighty" have fallen.
 
FutureUScapt
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:17 am

This is simply replacing the CLE-PHX flight that was originally slated to operate as a red-eye during this time period.

Sorry folks, but this doesn't really qualify as an expansion from a CLE standpoint.
 
greenair727
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:40 am

Quoting FutureUScapt:
This is simply replacing the CLE-PHX flight that was originally slated to operate as a red-eye during this time period.

Sorry folks, but this doesn't really qualify as an expansion from a CLE standpoint.

If 'originally slated' but not operated, then this is an expansion.

Also, as CLE already has non-stop PHX service, but does not for PDX, then this is unquestionably an expansion in terms of routes and markets.

[Edited 2013-02-27 03:00:56]

[Edited 2013-02-27 03:01:45]
 
FutureUScapt
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:01 pm

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 39):
If 'originally slated' but not operated, then this is an expansion.

Let me rephrase:

Up until last week, PHX was scheduled to fly as a red-eye. PDX was then substituted for it.

Quoting greenair727 (Reply 39):
Also, as CLE already has non-stop PHX service, but does not for PDX, then this is unquestionably an expansion in terms of routes and markets.

Except that during this period, there will be no nonstop PHX flights, either on UA or another airline.
 
BACCALA
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:27 pm

Does UA divert many planes to CLE when ORD and EWR are all messed up?

[Edited 2013-02-27 11:30:54]
 
as739x
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:35 pm

Quoting BACCALA (Reply 41):
Does UA divert many planes to CLE when ORD and EWR are all messed up?

From EWR, they will get a handle full. Some will speculate that this is why their ramp has received WB training recently. Some of the locals can give you more information, but this is what I remember.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
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ramprat74
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RE: UA Launching CLE-PDX

Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:33 pm

Quoting izbtmnhd (Reply 37):
So now we're down to a unverifiable Ramp Union document with a 2016 deadline to save face? My, how the "mighty" have fallen.
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