kaitak
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Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:15 pm

Good evening folks and welcome to our third thread of 2013. Here's the link to the last one, in case anyone wants to refer back.

Irish 2/13: February Made Me Shiver ... (by kaitak Feb 1 2013 in Civil Aviation)

We've seen quite a few interesting developments over the past few weeks, not least among them the rejection by the EU of Ryanair's takeover plan for EI; unfortunately for Aer Lingus, Ryanair will be appealing, so it will be a while before the threat is completely removed and even still, it remains a shareholder.

As the evenings become brighter and the Summer season approaches (only a month from now), we're still seeing some new routes being announced, with FR having announced DUB-Bologna only very recently.

We also saw what is probably the worst kept secret in the aviation industry - the merger between US and AA - which is expected to take effect from the third quarter; we won't see any major changes this year, but years to come should see some interesting developments, particularly with larger types; what hubs will stay? What will replace US's 757s and 767s, etc etc.

There have been persistent rumours in recent weeks about the possibility of EI acquiring 757s for some of its thinner t/a routes, with Finnair being seen as the source (it is expected to retire its 757s in the near future). AY currently has six, ranging in production years from 1997 to 2002 and configured for 227, all Economy. It's amazing that nearly a decade after production ended, the 757 still has no real replacement, although from an Irish perspective, the A321NEO should be able to do all that's required of it in our market.

The government has been doing good work in focusing on the ability of aviation to contribute to growth, which has been something sought for many years on this forum - and something in which the previous government had almost no interest. One area being focused upon is aviation financing, which should hopefully help the IFSC, which has several aviation leasing agencies based there. The government also maintains its commitment to abolishing the €3 levy, if there is movement on new routes and capacity:

http://irishaviationresearchinstitut...t-targets-aviation-sector-for.html

Well, folks, here's to the next thread; over to you!
 
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Dublinspotter
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:10 pm

Hi,

On a slightly separate note, there were rumours about EIR coming to Belfast, so how likely are we able to see EIR coming to BHD with the presence of BE? Would it be at all possible to start new routes because flybe have been there for donkeys, so they are quite a presence in the household to the local consumer, would EIR have a real chance? I see EI are trying to make head on competition with BE so is it a possibility in the near future? And would they take any routes head on or try out a Route which is not served like Bristol?

I am just really curious as i would pick the ATR any day!

Dublinspotter  
Dublinspotter
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:17 pm

Thanks Kaitak for a new thread.  

I have finally put together my TR showing the BA CE experience from DUB-LHR for those interested. I know a few have flown it already.

British Airways Club And Cunard's Queen Mary 2 TA (by OA260 Feb 26 2013 in Trip Reports)

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
unfortunately for Aer Lingus, Ryanair will be appealing, so it will be a while before the threat is completely removed and even still, it remains a shareholder.

Well lets hope soon EI can finally get this thorn from its side and concentrate all its efforts on its future without take over threats or strikes.

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
The government also maintains its commitment to abolishing the €3 levy, if there is movement on new routes and capacity:

I wonder how long they can keep doing that while proposing new domestic taxes on roads and other things etc... Soon enough people will question it. Im against it but others feel there should be tax hikes elsewhere including aviation to reduce the hikes on new toll roads and public services etc...
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:39 am

Cork Airport have launched a new advertising campaign.

Cork Airport has announced a new advertising campaign to promote direct routes from Cork for 2013.

According to those behind it, the 'Better Still' campaign aims to cement Cork Airport's status as the No 1 airport in the south of Ireland.

Niall MacCarthy, airport director, Cork Airport, said: "This is an exciting new advertising campaign showcasing all the reasons why it's so easy and convenient to fly direct from Cork Airport. This campaign will naturally resonate with those living in Cork city and county but this campaign is also designed to reach our customer base throughout Munster and further afield".

http://www.businessandleadership.com...m/39797-cork-airport-launches-new/

Have to say I hope it works well for them. I quite like ORK as airports go .
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:09 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
According to those behind it, the 'Better Still' campaign aims to cement Cork Airport's status as the No 1 airport in the south of Ireland.

Pardon the cync in me, but I think effectively being the only airport in th South of Ireland is already pretty concrete. Not unlike SNN's claim to be the #1 (and only) Gateway to the Midwest. Don't get me wrong, it is good to see the secondary airports stepping up their marketing but I wish they could refrain from making ridiculous clichéd claims like these. You could also claim that KIR is the #1 airport in County Kerry, CFN is the #1 airport in County Donegal or Inverin Airport is the #1 airport in Connemara. Please use your imagination when marketing rather than claiming you are the #1 something in an area carefully you carefully selected such that you would be the #1.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:39 am

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 5):
CFN is the #1 airport in County Donegal

Speaking of which some welcome news regards BA connections.

BA sign deal with Loganair to provide Donegal – London link

Passengers using Donegal Airport will soon be able to buy an inclusive ticket from Donegal to London.

British Airways has confirmed a codeshare agreement with Loganair that will link Donegal Airport to London Heathrow via a connection in Dublin.

http://www.highlandradio.com/2013/02...ir-to-provide-donegal-london-link/

The luggage allowance and through tickets are a welcome addition.
 
dstc47
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:37 pm

As you may have read elsewhere, the Ryanair bid is, as expected, blocked by the EU Commission

Press release is @ http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-13-167_en.htm

And a longer version @ http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-13-144_en.htm

[Edited 2013-02-27 04:39:45]
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:36 pm

The basic press release says "no". The extended version reads "Hell, no!"

Anyway, good to hear this at last, but of course, it's far from the end of the story, because FR will be spending all our speedy boarding, food, bus ticket and other charges on legal action which is almost guaranteed to be thrown out.

On what basis is the appeal? I realise that a govt wouldn't dream (I hope!) of influencing an ECJ decision, but what about the commission? Would they have even felt the need to lobby the commission, given the paucity of FR's plans and this nonsense with BE? Is this anything more than MO'L throwing his toys out of the cot because his plan has now failed and FR is left with shareholding worth half of its original value (well, much less certainly), not to mention the MILLIONS the airline must have spent on legal action. I wonder if he is coming under serious board/shareholder pressure.

Some time ago, EI lost a case to force FR to sell its shareholding, but I wonder - given the failure of this third bid - is it time for legislators to look at this issue. You have a clearly hostile and bitterly competitive shareholder, which adds/contributes nothing constructive to the company in which it holds shares; now that it has lost a third and final bid has failed, it can effectively be said to have no further reason to have a shareholding. Should this now become grounds to force a sale?

(Of course, we await the decision of the British OFT, which may decide to require a sale, but I would much prefer to see our own legislature do this.)

If nothing else, I would like to hear MO'L's view on why FR should continue to hold a shareholding and why it believes it is in the consumer's interests for it to do so.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:51 pm

The new JetBlue Airspace Lounge will open at JFK T5 in May and will replace the Oasis Lounge used by EI in T4:

http://blog.jetblue.com/index.php/20...6/lounge-to-open-at-jfk-t5-in-may/
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:14 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 8):
The new JetBlue Airspace Lounge will open at JFK T5 in May and will replace the Oasis Lounge used by EI in T4:

Yes it will be a great improvement so look forward to seeing it  
 
JAmie2k9
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:49 pm

Ryanair will resume a 3 weekly service between Dublin and Bremen from 18 September. They will also resume a 3 weekly service between Dublin and Bologna from 12 June.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:51 pm

Quoting kaitak (Thread starter):
There have been persistent rumours in recent weeks about the possibility of EI acquiring 757s for some of its thinner t/a routes, with Finnair being seen as the source (it is expected to retire its 757s in the near future). AY currently has six, ranging in production years from 1997 to 2002 and configured for 227, all Economy. It's amazing that nearly a decade after production ended, the 757 still has no real replacement, although from an Irish perspective, the A321NEO should be able to do all that's required of it in our market.

Oh, I didn't realise that Aer Lingus might acquire the 757s from Finnair. They're at least guaranteed a very well maintained fleet, and 1997-2002 means they are still fairly young. I'll be interested to see what the EI configuration is, and if they lease them from AY or buy them outright. Very interesting times ahead if this goes forward!

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
British Airways Club And Cunard's Queen Mary 2 TA (by OA260 Feb 26 2013 in Trip Reports)

What a report! Very impressive - though the burnt breakfast on BA looked a bit rough. A friend flew on a breakfast flight on Friday and said the breakfast was godawful. Who is doing the catering for BA in Dublin? Same company as Aer Lingus or someone else? Certainly looked poor.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 5):
British Airways has confirmed a codeshare agreement with Loganair that will link Donegal Airport to London Heathrow via a connection in Dublin.

That's very good news.

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 8):
The new JetBlue Airspace Lounge will open at JFK T5 in May and will replace the Oasis Lounge used by EI in T4:

I was quite pleased when I saw this actually. That totally makes sense... I'm looking forward to going to JFK again sometime on EI.

Thank goodness the Ryanair bid was shot down too really. I really enjoyed reading the rationale behind the decisions - it all sounds quite logical and well researched. I don't think FR have a prayer in any appeal to be perfectly honest. Hopefully that will mean the end of all of those shenanigans - I couldn't believe the millions it was costing Aer Lingus every time Ryanair made a bid.

I'll be interested to see what happens with the Ryanair shareholding (presumably after the appeal). I guess if EI sort out the pensions thing this year, there'll be serious movement in the share register shortly afterwards. I still think IAG should take a stake, though I imagine Etihad getting a serious percentage would be much more likely.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:12 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 11):
What a report! Very impressive - though the burnt breakfast on BA looked a bit rough. A friend flew on a breakfast flight on Friday and said the breakfast was godawful. Who is doing the catering for BA in Dublin? Same company as Aer Lingus or someone else? Certainly looked poor.

Thanks   It was a fab trip . Interesting to hear about your mates perceptions too. I thought it was just me but it used to be alot better. Id actually go as far to say the EI BOB breakkie is better. One reason the last 4 flights have been from BHD as being Gold I get row 1 and alot of the time middle seat is free. I get the extra luggage allowance also so the cost between CE and Domestic out of BHD is just not worth it. BHD has direct boarding from the lounge too which is a bonus. I buy a breakfast roll or similar at Obriens at BHD and take it into the lounge and get a cappuchino and orange juice and bobs your Uncle . Sorted. !  
Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 11):
That's very good news.

Yes it certainly gives that area of the country a lifeline to a much wider network with the perks.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:07 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
Cork Airport have launched a new advertising campaign.

I noticed a billboard promoting ORK in Limerick city today too!
 
styles9002
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:20 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 8):
The new JetBlue Airspace Lounge will open at JFK T5 in May and will replace the Oasis Lounge used by EI in T4:

The Airspace Lounge is not owned or operated by JetBlue Airways, only that it is located in the JetBlue terminal at JFK. At present, there are also two other Airspace Lounges (in BWI and CLE) and they are open to the general public upon paying the entrance fee.

I'm sure JetBlue will earn some sort of commission on entry sales or some other sort of compensation for directing its passengers to it. Beyond that, I'd imagine EI and HA will probably organize a net rate for their premium passengers to use the lounge and then have Airspace bill them monthly on it while non-premium passengers can pay their own way in.

Airspace Lounge is a separate firm specializing in airport lounge development and they have contracted Swissport to operate the lounge at JFK as well as BWI and CLE.

Airspace Lounge is also a member of the American Express Lounge Access Program, providing complimentary entry for Platinum and Centurion card members.

One thing I would be concerned about from EI or HA's perspective is that these lounges tend to get very busy and crowded (especially when operations are disrupted) and it may actually be a turn-off to the premium passengers. $20 or so for entry with a free drink is a good deal and may entice a lot of JetBlue leisure passengers to pay the fee. I've flown on B6 out of JFK several times and the terminal can be a zoo at the best of times with the crowds. It is a lovely terminal but with all the Caribbean/Las Vegas/Florida flights they do, it can get crowded.
It is what it is.
 
tonystan
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:46 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 11):
What a report! Very impressive - though the burnt breakfast on BA looked a bit rough. A friend flew on a breakfast flight on Friday and said the breakfast was godawful. Who is doing the catering for BA in Dublin? Same company as Aer Lingus or someone else? Certainly looked poor.

Truth is BA just don't do breakfast very well. Even on its Longhaul flights it tends to be overly greasy with poor ingredients and just way too much egg which if not served within seconds starts to dry out and turn to a sponge. Then there are the "green" eggs!

On the DUB route I generally prefer to pass on breakfast onboard. As for the catering, it's a round tripped catering ex LHR however I'm not 100% sure about the overnight aircraft other than the food is the same as the morning flights ex LHR so I assume they either keep them chilled overnight onboard or someone stores them in DUB.
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:12 am

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 13):
I noticed a billboard promoting ORK in Limerick city today too!

Good stuff  

TK did a good job on the Air Coach. I saw a fully branded one today just outside Belfast. Air Coach have re introduced the route Dublin Airport - Belfast but sadly not stopping in Newry like they used to . I found it a great service.

Quoting Reply 14):
One thing I would be concerned about from EI or HA's perspective is that these lounges tend to get very busy and crowded (especially when operations are disrupted) and it may actually be a turn-off to the premium passengers. $20 or so for entry with a free drink is a good deal and may entice a lot of JetBlue leisure passengers to pay the fee.

Thats what I thought also . Its a free for all so will not be exclusive but who knows maybe at evenings after the rush hour it might be ok for the EI passengers.
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:04 pm

The completion of the M18 motorway (linking Galway to Shannon Airport) has been approved by the government so this may prove a more convenient option down the line than Galwegians travelling on the M6 to DUB:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...eland/2013/0228/1224330607055.html

If only they would upgrade the N18 dual carriageway between Limerick and SNN to motorway standard. That 100km/h speed limit doesn't do it any justice  
Quoting Reply 14):
One thing I would be concerned about from EI or HA's perspective is that these lounges tend to get very busy and crowded (especially when operations are disrupted) and it may actually be a turn-off to the premium passengers. $20 or so for entry with a free drink is a good deal and may entice a lot of JetBlue leisure passengers to pay the fee. I've flown on B6 out of JFK several times and the terminal can be a zoo at the best of times with the crowds. It is a lovely terminal but with all the Caribbean/Las Vegas/Florida flights they do, it can get crowded.

The EI departure times from JFK this summer will be at 17:30, 18:20 and 21:15. Just out of interest I pulled the flights departing T5 an hour before the EI ones to see how many departures are facilitated for a random day in July. It does indeed appear crowded at times:

16:30-17:30
16:45 B6918 Boston
16:49 B689 San Diego
16:55 B637 Santiago, Dominican Republic
17:00 B6408 Portland, Maine
17:00 B6803 San Juan
17:00 B61119 Charlotte
17:00 B61516 Syracuse
17:05 B686 Rochester
17:15 B6415 San Francisco
17:20 B6167 Oakland
17:20 B61185 Raleigh/Durham
17:30 B6263 Seattle
17:30 EI104 Dublin

17:31-18:20
17:45 B61407 Washington-Dulles
18:00 B6201 Fort Lauderdale
18:00 B6351 Cancún
18:00 B6359 Burbank
18:15 B6153 West Palm Beach
18:20 EI110 Shannon

20:15-21:15
20:25 B6915 San Francisco
20:32 B6135 Phoenix
20:45 B61295 Austin
20:50 B6165 Portland, Oregon
20:50 B6775 New Orleans
20:59 B6523 Los Angeles
21:00 B6109 Santo Domingo
21:00 B6237 Santiago, Dominican Republic
21:00 B61103 San Juan
21:10 B6702 Buffalo
21:15 EI108 Dublin
 
EIDL
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:46 pm

Apologies if this was in the previous thread but I'm not sure it was - there was apparently some vague references to a GC points earning credit card appearing soon in an EI communication to holders, at least going on what was said on another forum. Anyone know if this actually is the case?

That we don't have *any* airline cards available to Irish euro accounts is very odd, and I'm surprised that one of the other airlines operating here hasn't tried to get in on the market.

If they bring one in, it'd also be very handy if they could get a points deal going with a hotel chain - I can and have in the past thrown Carlson points on to my TK card but it is EI I use more than any other airline still.
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:44 pm

Quoting EIDL (Reply 18):
Apologies if this was in the previous thread but I'm not sure it was - there was apparently some vague references to a GC points earning credit card appearing soon in an EI communication to holders, at least going on what was said on another forum. Anyone know if this actually is the case?

That we don't have *any* airline cards available to Irish euro accounts is very odd, and I'm surprised that one of the other airlines operating here hasn't tried to get in on the market.

I have wondered why they have not tapped into the market also. If there was one available I would certainly get one as it would rack me up alot of points if its anything like the other programs.
 
shamrocka330
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:41 pm

Looks like EI-EAV had a technical problem today operating the Boston flight from Dublin.

It departed at 14:30 but had to turn back. Fortunately the problem was fixed and the flight left again at 17:30.

Does anyone know what the problem was?
aka thebigjd (member since Sept 2001)
 
tonystan
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:17 pm

Quoting shamrocka330 (Reply 20):

It was a medical diversion it would appear!!!!
My views are my own and do not reflect any other person or organisation.
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:08 am

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 17):
The completion of the M18 motorway (linking Galway to Shannon Airport) has been approved by the government so this may prove a more convenient option down the line than Galwegians travelling on the M6 to DUB:

Yes, it is fantastic news. It will also improve travel time from Galway to NOC. The existing N17 from Ballindine to Charlestown is generally of a pretty good standard albeit single carrigeway. Once the M17/M18 is completed, there will only a relatviely short section of bad roadway left from Tuam to Ballindine. It will also make SNN more attractive for those living in towns located along the M6 (assuming there are services from SNN people want to use). Either way, this project can only be good for both SNN and NOC.

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 17):
If only they would upgrade the N18 dual carriageway between Limerick and SNN to motorway standard. That 100km/h speed limit doesn't do it any justice

In fairness, it is but a minor inconvenience. Besides, think of the lost all the lost revenue from non-locals getting caught at the speed checks located just past the Shannon interchange where the limit drops from 120 to 100 kph. Kidding aside, it will be nearly impossible to upgrade that section of road to motorway standard without completely rebuilding and re-aligning it. Technical challenges include driveways that exit directly onto the southbound side, inadequate sight disdances, bend radii that are too sharp, inadequate crossfalls, entry-exit ramps that are too short with turns that are too sharp to name but a few. The road is more than adequate for the current levels of traffic and the money that it would cost to upgrade wouth be far better spent upgrading the horrible Limerick to Cork road which is nothing short of a national disgrace.

I remember when that road was built, they simply built a new road parallel to the existing single carrigeway N18. The current southbound side was the original N18 when it was still a single carrigeway (hence the driveways exiting onto it).
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:06 pm

Quoting EIDL (Reply 18):
That we don't have *any* airline cards available to Irish euro accounts is very odd, and I'm surprised that one of the other airlines operating here hasn't tried to get in on the market.

I'd jump on something like that pretty quick smart. Surprised BA haven't done anything like that in Ireland really considering how many people have Executive Club cards.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 12:13 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 22):

Agreed Tony, the Cork Limerick road is a nightmare. The travel time between limerick and cork should be in the region of an hour, rather than the current two+ hours. The distance isn't much more than 60 miles, IIIRC. To be honest, it's easier to drive to DUB than SNN from Cork and most of the subarbs. At least it's motorway all the way - other than a short stretch around newlands cross, even this has been improved greatly since they replaced the mad cow roundabout with an interchange.

I've seen an interesting post on another forum


Quote:

"Aer Lingus’s choice
Aer Lingus have selected Air Contractors as their preferred supplier for the provision of Wet Lease transatlantic services. Discussions, subject to contract, are underway with the intention of concluding arrangements for an initial period of four years. The concept is that Air Contractors will operate two/three 757 ER aircraft from Shannon and Dublin 7 days/week. Destinations are to be confirmed but will include New York and Boston. This development underscores the confidence Aer Lingus have in Air Contractors and our ability to provide cost effective, tailored solutions operating to the highest possible levels of customer service and reliability. The opportunity is testament to the great reputation that Air Contractors have developed with blue chip companies and is recognition of the hard work, commitment and professionalism displayed by the Air Contractors team."

It would seem there is some substance to the 757 rumour. I haven't been able to find this from air contractors themselves, their new section is currently down/empty. Seems to be a four year contract for 2/3 757s, which seems a pretty major commitment. Interestingly, Air Contractors don't operate the 757 as far as I can see, so they are hardly an obvious choice.
I'm honestly not sure how I feel about this development. On one hand it demonstrates EI are looking at new way of tackling old problems. On the other, does it demonstrate an inability, or unwillingness to invest in the fleet long-term. I can't help but recall the rate at which BD leased out frames (especialy the A330s) and wet-leased in frames to backfill (usually 757s). I hope this is a stopgap until A321 NEOs come available, but if EI do want them for 2017 they need to get a move on.
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
JAmie2k9
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:22 pm

 
ei737ng
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:37 pm

I assume that the 757's will be painted in the EI livery?
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:22 pm

Say for argument sake EI leased three 757s. They'd probably base two at SNN during the summer for daily JFK and BOS services. That would leave the remaining 757 and freed up A330-200 for potential new routes and/or increased frequency on existing longhaul routes. Could DUB-YYZ be on the horizon? Or maybe an afternoon service on DUB-EWR to replace the UA decrease when they launched IAD?
 
Clydenairways
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 4:59 pm

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 24):
It would seem there is some substance to the 757 rumour. I haven't been able to find this from air contractors themselves, their new section is currently down/empty. Seems to be a four year contract for 2/3 757s, which seems a pretty major commitment. Interestingly, Air Contractors don't operate the 757 as far as I can see, so they are hardly an obvious choice.
I'm honestly not sure how I feel about this development. On one hand it demonstrates EI are looking at new way of tackling old problems. On the other, does it demonstrate an inability, or unwillingness to invest in the fleet long-term. I can't help but recall the rate at which BD leased out frames (especialy the A330s) and wet-leased in frames to backfill (usually 757s). I hope this is a stopgap until A321 NEOs come available, but if EI do want them for 2017 they need to get a move on.

This is a very interesting development and it certainly seems now to be more than just a rumour.
If it's true, then i think this is one of the first examples in a long long time we have seen some real innovation from EI rather than following some proven concept. I know others operate the TA 757 already but it's the interim measure they have come up with that impresses me.

The 321 NEO is some way away and EI are clearly looking at having a stopgap measure for both testing the viability of both thinner and year round TA services.
I think they have the perfect partner in ACL and those ex Finnair frames should be in excellent condition from a maintenance point of view. Just need to invest a bit on sprucing up the interiors.
There is minimal risk to EI as they don't have to make any investment in pilot or maintenance conversion training for such a small sub-fleet for only 4 years.
The cabin crew seconded over to operate on these aircraft would be fairly straight forward as they are operating on another Irish AOC so the additional requirements should be minimal.
ACL will have access to training resources through their close association with DHL and perhaps they might be able to piggyback on their ETOPS 757 approval at the start?
At the end of the contract ACL will probably convert the aircraft to freighters and will have probably added a few more to their fleet by that time anyway.

When Aer Arann way looking dodgy a while back i was expecting that EI might tie up with ACL but i didn't anticipate 757's being on the cards, just ATR's.

ACL is a quality operation and they are well used to high levels of reliability required from operating for DHL and FedEx.
 
kaitak
Topic Author
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:10 pm

It's a very interesting development right enough; are we looking at a 2013 start, or 2014?

This move will mean that apart from the 727, 777 and 787, Aer Lingus will have operated all Boeing jet types.

As for configuration, I would expect EI to go for a configuration of just under 200, to allow it to be operated by four cabin crew.

On another subject, Virgin has announced that the domestic operation will be operated under the marketing name "Little Red". Will we see the cabin crew wearing red hoods? Marketing strapline: "Ride with Little Red"?

[Edited 2013-03-01 09:14:02]
 
Clydenairways
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 29):
This move will mean that apart from the 727, 777 and 787, Aer Lingus will have operated all Boeing jet types.

Well technically they are not operating the 757. ACL are.
But i would expect it would be painted in full EI colours and have EI seat covers if the contract is 4 years long.
And with the EI- reg and hopefully Irish pilots then who would know the difference anyway  
 
Rufusisgod
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:24 pm

Quick Question for someone in the know at ACL.

Anyone know what is happening with EI-STA the 737-300 used for charter work.

It's sitting with at least one engine missing for the past few days/weeks.
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:35 pm

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 23):
I'd jump on something like that pretty quick smart. Surprised BA haven't done anything like that in Ireland really considering how many people have Executive Club cards.

Yes I could have done the BA one at my UK address but was not worth the hassle and juggling accounts etc..So hopefully we see something in future. If your spending the money anyway its nice to get something back especially when its travel related  
 
dergay
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:24 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 29):

This move will mean that apart from the 727, 777 and 787, Aer Lingus will have operated all Boeing jet types.

Have EI operated the 717?
Flown on A300,A310,A318,A319,A320,A321,A330,B707,B720,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,L382,L1011,C5,DC-3,DC8,
 
EIDL
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:33 pm

Quoting dergay (Reply 33):
Have EI operated the 717?

Boeing in sticker-over-the-MDname only  
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:15 am

Quoting ei737ng (Reply 26):
I assume that the 757's will be painted in the EI livery?

And will the cabin be fitted with the EI seats and IFE system?
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
kaitak
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:24 am

I would be very surprised if EI did not have a common service level between the 757 and A330.

Here's a piece from the Indo on the British OFT investigation into FR's shareholding in EI:

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...eks-about-stake-sale-29103297.html

I have to say that I have mixed feelings about this, in that if there is a compulsory measure taken, I'd like it to be taken by either the govt or another Irish agency, not a foreign agency. I understand that LV is considering some measures, but what effect they will have remains to be seen. We have not seen anything quite like this in Irish company law, which is probably why it hasn't been anticipated in legislation, but I think it is possible to to draw up a series of legal tests which a company in FR's position would need to satisfy - and it would also need to produce a statement of its strategic plan for the competitor in which it has a stake (which, for commercial reasons, could be kept confidential); given the rather pathetic fiction that FR tried to cobble together involving Flybe, it would be interesting to see what vision FR could develop for EI.

I have to say that I'd be surprised if they did decide on an order to sell, given the angle they are taking: FR doesn't have any presence on the EI board and there is clearly anything but collusion between them.
 
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ClassicLover
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:36 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 35):
And will the cabin be fitted with the EI seats and IFE system?

It would be, without a doubt. There would be no reason not to do this especially if the aircraft is coming from another airline - it would have to be done anyway. Though I suppose they could refurbish the current Y seats on the 757 and just install the proper J cabin. However, since competition is quite fierce, I think they would Aer Lingus the whole thing.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
styles9002
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:12 pm

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 28):
If it's true, then i think this is one of the first examples in a long long time we have seen some real innovation from EI rather than following some proven concept. I know others operate the TA 757 already but it's the interim measure they have come up with that impresses me.

I don't understand what you consider innovative about this potential announcement? Is it the fact that Aer Lingus might be leasing aircraft to operate more T/A flights or that they might be leasing B757s to fly those routes?

Either way, I don't see how you can claim it is 'innovative'. EI have leased aircraft before to operate transatlantic flights, such as the World Airways lease. As for the B757s, Icelandair has been flying B757s on the Altantic since 1990 while Continental also introduced them on the routes over 15 years ago. Since then, American and US Airways have used the B757s on the Atlantic as well.

If this is true, it is a smart move by EI, but hardly innovative. I would consider EI more a laggard here than anything.
It is what it is.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:25 pm

Quoting Reply 38):
I don't understand what you consider innovative about this potential announcement?
Quoting Reply 38):
If this is true, it is a smart move by EI, but hardly innovative. I would consider EI more a laggard here than anything.

I think the meaning here Styles is that its refreshing to see EI spotting a problem and leasing in B757's to deal with the problem, while at the same time using the B757's to allow tem to look elsewhere.

No one can claim that leasing in aircraft and/or using B757's for East coast Ops is innovative.
I suppose many here have just got used to hearing excuses from EI about the SNN network and the possibility of longhaul expansion. Refreshing to see EI deal with both issues from another direction.....
 
tonymctigue
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:58 am

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 39):
No one can claim that leasing in aircraft and/or using B757's for East coast Ops is innovative.
I suppose many here have just got used to hearing excuses from EI about the SNN network and the possibility of longhaul expansion. Refreshing to see EI deal with both issues from another direction.....

May I also add (assuming this announcement is true) that it vindicates those who claimed all along that SNN does in fact have a role to play in the EI long haul network. Ironically, it also vindicates the proponents of Open Skies because the Shannon Stopover rule would have dicatated EI operate at the same frequency with the same sized aircraft on both SNN and DUB routes which meant EI's long haul network lost money for decades. Now that EI can taylor capacity and frequency to suit demand, the long haul routes are performing very well which of course brings in more money that can be reinvested so it is a win-win sutation for everyone.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:06 am

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 40):
May I also add (assuming this announcement is true) that it vindicates those who claimed all along that SNN does in fact have a role to play in the EI long haul network. Ironically, it also vindicates the proponents of Open Skies because the Shannon Stopover rule would have dicatated EI operate at the same frequency with the same sized aircraft on both SNN and DUB routes which meant EI's long haul network lost money for decades. Now that EI can taylor capacity and frequency to suit demand, the long haul routes are performing very well which of course brings in more money that can be reinvested so it is a win-win sutation for everyone.

It's certainly a very interesting development, and I think people should take heary that under CM's reign, Aer Lingus has looked to exploit opportunities across Ireland, and not been overly Dublin centric.

The airline continues to pursue opportunites at Shannon, and indeed has not been put off by the one or two failures it has experienced there, such as CDG and LGW.

EI continue to adjust it's offering at Cork, and I'd really love to see them give ORK-JFK a go. Perhaps the 757 might be just the vehicle?

NOC has had a BHX rotation added to the succesful LGW route, and in Northern Ireland, the offer in Belfast has been renewed, and seems to be bringing greater success.

In other news, Ryanair, as mentioned above, is re-introducing Bremen to Dublin. This comes in addition to recent announcements of Bologna, Lublin and Maastricht. It seems now that FR are back in modest growth mode from Dublin, and i'd expect to see more of this, with a number of Short Haul airlines expanding service this summer, especially Norwegian, who FR must view as some threat. DY have not been pushed off the OSL route despite an FR fare war on that route, where FR often sell a one way to Rygge for 20 euro.

Meanwhile, the DAA have published the top ten connecting markets from Dublin for 2012:

Long Haul

1 Sydney
2 New York
3 San Francisco
4 Los Angeles
5 Melbourne
6 Johannesburg
7 Orlando
8 Toronto
9 Singapore
10 Chicago


Short Haul

1 Helsinki
2 Moscow
3 Billund
4 Stockholm
5 Luxembourg
6 Berlin
7 Kiev
8 Hamburg
9 Hanover
10 Venice

Interesting to note that among the Long Haul list, many of these points are already comprehensively served from Dublin, like New York and Chicago. It also suggests frequency could be added on Toronto and Orlando, and SFO / LAX are third and fourth on the list respectively....

It's similar on short haul - most of these routes are already served, though perhaps not at sufficient frequency.

In all, 2 million of the 19.1 m pax at DUB last year connected onwards after their initial departure from Dublin (ie at LHR, AMS, DXB etc).
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:11 am

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 41):
New Yor
Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 41):
Orlando

These have and always will be on the list. Various reasons . Plenty still prefer to connect to a superior product from LHR . Plus the fares are often cheaper. If your saving EUR80-100 per ticket for a Family of 4 then the figures speak for themselves. BA have always done very well out of this and even more so now they are back in town.
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:22 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 42):
These have and always will be on the list. Various reasons . Plenty still prefer to connect to a superior product from LHR . Plus the fares are often cheaper. If your saving EUR80-100 per ticket for a Family of 4 then the figures speak for themselves. BA have always done very well out of this and even more so now they are back in town.

I'm assuming many of these would be J or F class pax? There's not much in it service wise in Y that would make me add up to 4 or more hours to my journey to sit in steerage  

But yes, I understand the likes of New York will always be on the list with the likes of AFKL in particular offering quite low connecting fares out of DUB to directly served destinations.
 
BrianDromey
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:39 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 42):

Some routes will always be on the list, as you say NYC and Orlando are sure to be in the list, for a variety of reasons, BA often do good fares, as you say. All things being equal ou would expect a journey with a connection to be more attractively priced than a non-stop alternative. I guess figures to SYD, Asia and the West coast might be disproportionate as there is no non-stop option for these destinations, but they are well served by EY and EK.

I'm surprised HEL hasn't worked for EI on the occasions they have tried it. I wonder if a lot of those top ten markets need to launch with a daily service, at least, to be attractive, which would probably be too much capacity. Shocked to see LUX on the list, surely you could fly to CDG or AMS or DUS and get a TGV/ICE service rather than connect? It would seem a handful of smaller jets could work for EI and open up Europe like the ATR has done for UK destinations. I wonder if we will ever see it? Would something like the E190 have to be flown by mainline? I suppose the 757s won't be....
Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:48 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 44):
I'm surprised HEL hasn't worked for EI on the occasions they have tried it

They still do HEL, it's just seasonal and only twice a week. DY are starting it this summer too, which means a decent schedule if you combine one ways with EI and DY.
 
dstc47
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:11 am

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 44):
Shocked to see LUX on the list, surely you could fly to CDG or AMS or DUS and get a TGV/ICE service rather than connect?

From my experience on the old Luxair service, this is heavily business traffic with an "in one day, back the next, or the day after" traffic. The connections that were there in the past, using LGW or LCY or CDG are very vulnerable to any service timing changes, weather delay, carrier switching problems etc, making the direct service the best, sometime the only, really workable option and the reason the Luxair service hung in there so long. The number of bad CDG transit experiences colleagues had, due to bus transfer delay and seeing the second plane leave without them.

Luxair never tried much to promote the service to fill empty seats in the off season or develop the tourist end of the business. I guess that the aircraft just makes more money going somewhere else.
 
EIDL
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:38 pm

I'm surprised to see BLL on that list, and so high up at that (despite having been one of those connecting pax last year, on SAS, luckily the CI flight CPH-BLL restarted two weeks before I had to go!).

There really isn't much demand there other than for Legoland - and there's a much cheaper to get to, get in to and shop at Legoland within driving distance of MUC. Although the BLL one is within walking distance as the airport was built by the Lego company.

If the demand is from Legoland, that'd be why SK or LH connections would probably remain popular even if FR returned to the route - baggage!
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:27 pm

Quoting EIDL (Reply 47):
I'm surprised to see BLL on that list, and so high up at that (despite having been one of those connecting pax last year, on SAS, luckily the CI flight CPH-BLL restarted two weeks before I had to go!).

There really isn't much demand there other than for Legoland - and there's a much cheaper to get to, get in to and shop at Legoland within driving distance of MUC. Although the BLL one is within walking distance as the airport was built by the Lego company.

If the demand is from Legoland, that'd be why SK or LH connections would probably remain popular even if FR returned to the route - baggage!

Cimber operated it for a while too using a CRJ, and any time I saw it arrive, it always seemed to have a decent load, but you have to wonder if it was mostly lesiure, and thus unable to command a decent enough yield to make such a sector work on a CRJ 200.
 
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OA260
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RE: Irish 3/13: Winging It ...

Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:16 pm

Quoting shamrock604 (Reply 43):
I'm assuming many of these would be J or F class pax? There's not much in it service wise in Y that would make me add up to 4 or more hours to my journey to sit in steerage  

No Y class . You would be surprised how many opt for one stop rather then non stop. It can be the Family of 4 who would rather spend the extra EUR300-400 on accomodation or Disney Park passes or the Silver/Gold card guy that wants to earn miles and status points. Everyone is different. People will often do LHR or CDG or FRA if there is a carrott.

Then you have the tour operators who have been pushing VS and BA for the USA packages.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 44):
Some routes will always be on the list, as you say NYC and Orlando are sure to be in the list, for a variety of reasons, BA often do good fares, as you say.

Indeed BA do some cracking fares and hard to beat sometimes. The EI fare to the likes of JFK and BOS are very high at the moment even when there are plenty of seats in all classes. Also EI have not lifted the Sat night stay requirement so alot of the time there can be a EUR 200 difference on a Mon-Fri itinerary between EI and Via LHR options.

BTW a Spring clean today and this showed up ! Duty Free between the UK and Ireland. A tenner IEP10 for a Litre of Jameson . Where would you go !  Smilehttp://i955.photobucket.com/albums/ae40/PhilipOA260/BA063DBD-975C-4D78-939A-FBC80A033D55-3147-0000014A89B4F8AB_zps90d3f53f.jpg

[Edited 2013-03-03 10:55:49]