User avatar
enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 6139
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 2:35 pm

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

AA MIA-PLS JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3

AC ALB-YYZ APR 1.7>1.6
AC GRR-YYZ APR 1.7>1.6
AC MDT-YYZ APR 1.9>1.6

AM JFK-MEX MAY 5>4
AM LAS-MEX APR 1.4>1.9 MAY 2>1.8 JUN 3>1.9 JUL 3>1.8 AUG 3>1.9 SEP 3>1.9 OCT 3>1.9

BB SPB-SSB JUN 0>12 JUL 0>12 AUG 0>12 SEP 0>12 OCT 0>12
BB STX-SJU MAR 1.9>1.7
BR SEA-TPE OCT 0.6>0.7

BW FLL-KIN MAR 1.9>1.2 APR 2>1.0 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
BW FLL-MBJ MAR 1.0>0.3 APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

DL ALB-MSP JUN 1.0>1.7 JUL 1.0>2.0 AUG 1.0>2
Now I think they really are upset with AS.
**DL ANC-SEA JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
DL ATL-BNA JUN 11>10 JUL 11>10
DL ATL-LAS JUL 7>8
DL ATL-NAS JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4
DL ATL-SFO JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9 AUG 8>9
*DL CVG-GSO JUN 0.8>0.2 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0
*DL DIK-MSP JUN 0>1.4 JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>2 OCT 0>2
*DL DTW-YQB JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
DL JFK-MVY JUN 1.0>1.7 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2
DL JFK-SDQ OCT 2>3
DL JFK-SJU OCT 3>4
DL JFK-STI OCT 2>3
DL JFK-YQB MAY 0.5>0 JUN 2>1.5
And another SEA route...
*DL LAS-SEA JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
DL LAX-ATL JUL 11>12 AUG 11>12
DL LAX-CVG JUL 3>1.8 AUG 3>1.8 SEP 3>1.9 OCT 3>1.9
DL LAX-MSY SEP 1.7>3 OCT 1.9>3
DL LAX-SAN JUL 6>5
DL LGA-CHS SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4
DL LGA-MCO JUL 7>8 AUG 7>8 SEP 6>7 OCT 6>7
DL MEM-LAS JUN 1.8>1.2 JUL 1.9>1.0 AUG 1.8>1.0 SEP 1.9>1.0 OCT 1.9>1.0
DL MIA-LGA JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5 SEP 6>5 OCT 5>4
DL MSP-ORD JUL 9>8 AUG 9>8 SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8
DL SLC-COD JUN 1.9>1.3
DL SLC-EKO JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
DL SLC-ONT JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5
DL SLC-SGU JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4
DL SLC-SUN JUN 5>6 JUL 6>8 AUG 6>7
DL SLC-TWF JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4 SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4

FJ LAX-NAN OCT 0.9>0.7

G4 AZA-OAK JUL 0.6>0.4 SEP 0.6>0.4

Weird...
IS ACK-HYA MAR 14>0 APR 14>0 MAY 14>0 JUN 14>0 JUL 14>0 AUG 14>0 SEP 14>0 OCT 14>0
ISA ACK-HYA MAR 0>14 APR 0>14 MAY 0>14 JUN 0>14 JUL 0>14 AUG 0>14 SEP 0>14 OCT 0>14

JL BOS-NRT MAR 1.0>0.8
JL SAN-NRT MAR 1.0>0.5

KX DFW-GCM APR 0.2>0 MAY 0.3>0.1
KX MIA-GCM MAR 2>3 JUN 2>3 AUG 2.0>3 OCT 2>3

LA MHC-PMC AUG 0>0.6

*NK DFW-TLC APR 0.2>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0.6

OS IAD-VIE APR 1.0>0.9

OZ ROR-ICN SEP 0.3>0.6 OCT 0.3>0.5
OZ SPN-KIX APR 0.1>0.2 MAY 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.6 AUG 0>1.0

PK JFK-LHE APR 0.3>0.4 MAY 0.3>0.4 JUN 0.3>0.4 JUL 0.3>0.4 AUG 0.3>0.5 SEP 0.3>0.4
Do they really fly this?
*PK ORD-BCN JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3

*SE MIA-CDG JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.5

SQ EWR-SIN APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.9 JUN 1.0>0.9 JUL 1.0>0.8 AUG 1.0>0.9 SEP 1.0>0.9 OCT 1.0>0.8

SY DCA-LAN MAY 0>0.9 JUN 0>1.0
SY DFW-CUN MAY 0.8>0.9
SY LAN-MSP MAY 0.0>0.9 JUN 0>1.0

TA JFK-SAP JUN 0.3>0.4
TA LAX-GUA JUN 0.0>0.2

Looks like a trade. PHX was year round before? Wonder if it will come back.
*UA CLE-PDX JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>0.8
*UA CLE-PHX JUN 1.0>0.2 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0.2
UA DEN-BZN JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
UA DEN-FAT JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
*UA DEN-FLL AUG 0.9>0.3 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
UA DEN-HSV JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.1>2.0
UA DEN-ICT JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
UA DEN-MFR JUL 2>3 AUG 1.9>3
UA DEN-MSO JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
UA DEN-NRT APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0.6
UA DEN-RDM JUL 1.0>1.9 AUG 1.0>1.7
UA DEN-SEA JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
UA DEN-TVC JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>0.8
UA EWR-PWM JUN 4>5
UA EWR-YQB JUN 3>4
UA LAX-IAH SEP 12>13 OCT 12>13
UA LAX-IPL APR 0.4>1.9
UA ORD-PIT JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7
UA ORD-SYR JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5
UA SFO-CDG APR 0.7>0.2
UA SFO-PVR JUL 0.5>0.4 AUG 0.6>0.5
*UA SFO-TPE APR 0.7>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0.8

VX FLL-SFO AUG 1.4>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.5

WP HNL-LNY APR 4>3 MAY 4>3 JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3 SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
WP LNY-HNL APR 6>5 MAY 6>5 JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5 SEP 6>5 OCT 6>5

*Y4 DEN-MEX MAY 0.3>0 JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0
Y4 LAS-GDL APR 1.3>1.1 MAY 1.3>1.0 JUN 1.3>1.0 JUL 1.3>1.0 AUG 1.3>1.0 SEP 1.3>1.0 OCT 1.3>1.0
Y4 LAS-MEX APR 2>1.5 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
Y4 LAX-MEX APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.5 JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.5 AUG 1.0>0.6 SEP 1.0>0.6 OCT 1.0>0.5
Y4 LAX-MLM APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.7 JUL 1.0>0.7 AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 1.0>0.7 OCT 1.0>0.7
Y4 MCO-MEX APR 0.4>0.2 MAY 0.4>0.2 JUN 0.5>0.3 JUL 0.4>0.3 AUG 0.5>0.3 SEP 0.4>0.3 OCT 0.4>0.3
*Y4 OAK-MEX APR 0.6>0.2 MAY 0.5>0 JUN 0.6>0 JUL 0.5>0 AUG 0.6>0 SEP 0.6>0 OCT 0.5>0
*Y4 SAN-GDL APR 0.5>0.1 MAY 0.6>0 JUN 0.6>0 JUL 0.5>0 AUG 0.6>0 SEP 0.6>0 OCT 0.5>0
Y4 SAN-MEX MAY 0.9>0.5 JUN 0.9>0.6 JUL 0.8>0.5 AUG 0.9>0.6 SEP 0.8>0.6 OCT 0.9>0.5
Y4 SMF-GDL APR 0.1>0.4 MAY 0.2>0.4 JUN 0.1>0.4 JUL 0.1>0.4 AUG 0.2>0.5 SEP 0.1>0.4 OCT 0.1>0.5

*YJ MWA-HOX MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0 MAY 0.1>0 JUN 0.2>0 JUL 0.1>0 AUG 0.2>0 SEP 0.1>0 OCT 0.1>0

*ZK ELY-LAS APR 0.9>0 MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0
*ZK FMN-PGA APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
*ZK LAS-PGA APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
 
usairways85
Posts: 3534
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:00 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**DL ANC-SEA JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

So that makes AS, UA, B6, DL all on this route...anyone else?
 
User avatar
evanbu
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 2:27 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:10 pm

It's great to see the expansion at DIK. Business is booming!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6089
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:15 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-YQB JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

This was a late re-instatement of a route that they were not initially planning to operate thus summer.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LAX-CVG JUL 3>1.8 AUG 3>1.8 SEP 3>1.9 OCT 3>1.9

This is a reduction from past years, where it was typically been 3x/day in the summer.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 3264
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:19 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL SLC-ONT JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5

even a frequecny increase is good news for ONT these days. Anyone know if they downsized some planes to do this or is this a true add?
 
point2point
Posts: 2080
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:54 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:24 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*Y4 DEN-MEX MAY 0.3>0 JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0
Y4 LAS-GDL APR 1.3>1.1 MAY 1.3>1.0 JUN 1.3>1.0 JUL 1.3>1.0 AUG 1.3>1.0 SEP 1.3>1.0 OCT 1.3>1.0
Y4 LAS-MEX APR 2>1.5 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
Y4 LAX-MEX APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.5 JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.5 AUG 1.0>0.6 SEP 1.0>0.6 OCT 1.0>0.5
Y4 LAX-MLM APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.7 JUL 1.0>0.7 AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 1.0>0.7 OCT 1.0>0.7
Y4 MCO-MEX APR 0.4>0.2 MAY 0.4>0.2 JUN 0.5>0.3 JUL 0.4>0.3 AUG 0.5>0.3 SEP 0.4>0.3 OCT 0.4>0.3
*Y4 OAK-MEX APR 0.6>0.2 MAY 0.5>0 JUN 0.6>0 JUL 0.5>0 AUG 0.6>0 SEP 0.6>0 OCT 0.5>0
*Y4 SAN-GDL APR 0.5>0.1 MAY 0.6>0 JUN 0.6>0 JUL 0.5>0 AUG 0.6>0 SEP 0.6>0 OCT 0.5>0
Y4 SAN-MEX MAY 0.9>0.5 JUN 0.9>0.6 JUL 0.8>0.5 AUG 0.9>0.6 SEP 0.8>0.6 OCT 0.9>0.5
Y4 SMF-GDL APR 0.1>0.4 MAY 0.2>0.4 JUN 0.1>0.4 JUL 0.1>0.4 AUG 0.2>0.5 SEP 0.1>0.4 OCT 0.1>0.5

Are these numbers something that may be reversed next week (or two) as we've seen in some cases? All routes/frequencies reduced except for SMF-GDL, and DEN-MEX, OAK-MEX, and SAN-GDL cancelled for season.... or for good? And a bit puzzling with the DEN-MEX route..... they couldn't fill a couple of flights a week here..... were the Sat/Sun frequencies bad scheduling....?

 
 
User avatar
redzeppelin
Posts: 878
Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 4:30 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:29 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL SLC-SGU JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4

Is this related to OO adding a UAX CRJ on SGU-DEN? If they are flying to SGU at their own risk, I suppose that they can decide which livery they fly it with...
 
Rbgso
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 3:50 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-GSO JUN 0.8>0.2 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0

That really stinks, but not completely unexpected......
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3964
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:05 pm

Quoting rbgso (Reply 7):
That really stinks, but not completely unexpected......

That one was a staple for OH for the longest. When their flying wound down in ATL, pretty much the only destinations you'd see were CVG and GSO. It would usually be a CR7 and the a/c would be routed CVG-ATL-GSO-CVG.
What gets measured gets done.
 
User avatar
enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 6139
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:26 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 1):
So that makes AS, UA, B6, DL all on this route...anyone else?

It's interesting that DL is really attacking AS now.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 3):
This was a late re-instatement of a route that they were not initially planning to operate thus summer.

Interesting that in May the whole station closes. This is not a leisure market is it? Sounds like the move to JFK has failed like SNA did. YQB is probably writing a check to keep it alive for Summer.

Quoting point2point (Reply 5):
Are these numbers something that may be reversed next week (or two) as we've seen in some cases?

Of course...that is their modus operandi it appears.

Quoting point2point (Reply 5):
And a bit puzzling with the DEN-MEX route

That route has been a challenge for everybody who has tried it. There are a lot of Hispanics in DEN, but not from MEX area.

Quoting rbgso (Reply 7):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-GSO JUN 0.8>0.2 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0
That really stinks, but not completely unexpected......
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 8):
That one was a staple for OH for the longest.

Everything that isn't NYC/LAX/etc. is going to fall one by one.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:36 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
It's interesting that DL is really attacking AS now.

I'm very very unconvinced DL is attacking AS, especially after that unity party or whatever a few months ago at SEA. And what, 1 DL SEA-ANC vs how many AS SEA-ANC? Now if AS starts trying to crush the single DL flights out of SEA or DL attacks AS' SEA-SLC by adding a bunch of capacity, you may be on to something.

But a few DL flights in an expanding SEA operation ain't the end of the world. It's not as if cities are purely O&D either... DL putting a flight through SEA isn't sucking a 757 worth of passengers away from AS. Some will be O&D but most will be connecting.

TL;DR I think people are freaking out about this. Could be wrong, but I remain unconvinced
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:51 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL MSP-ORD JUL 9>8 AUG 9>8 SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8

I remember when NW/UA/AA all ran hourly mainline in this market.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 6):
Is this related to OO adding a UAX CRJ on SGU-DEN? If they are flying to SGU at their own risk, I suppose that they can decide which livery they fly it with...

Not unless SLC-SGU is at risk also. DL tells OO where to fly unless it is at risk.

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
It's interesting that DL is really attacking AS now.

I think youre over-reading. You have a tendency to do that. But I appreciate your weekly report.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
I'm very very unconvinced DL is attacking AS, especially after that unity party or whatever a few months ago at SEA.

I said the same thing in the SEA-LAS announcement thread, and was laughed at by another member who asked if I remembered high school and trying to get the attention of the pretty girl by throwing attention grabbers her way. Truly bizarre (especially if you read my signature line   ).
International Homo of Mystery
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 3264
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 6):

Is this related to OO adding a UAX CRJ on SGU-DEN? If they are flying to SGU at their own risk, I suppose that they can decide which livery they fly it with...

SGU is now all CRJ-200s so more seats. They use to fly much smaller planes into SGU so i think that might also be a large part of it. Even when they first introduced the CRJ to the new airport i dont think all the flights were . I think DEN is a natural though probably a good amount of demand if a non-stop exists and great connections East and on the way.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15200
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:15 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 11):

I think youre over-reading. You have a tendency to do that. But I appreciate your weekly report.

I disagree. DL is sending a not so subtle message that AS needs to choose DL or AA, or this SEA amuse bouche of DL capacity will become a full on onslaught.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
EWRandMDW
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 5:28 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:19 pm

SQ EWR-SIN APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.9 JUN 1.0>0.9 JUL 1.0>0.8 AUG 1.0>0.9 SEP 1.0>0.9 OCT 1.0>0.8

I thought this was going away! Did SQ have a change of heart?
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I disagree. DL is sending a not so subtle message that AS needs to choose DL or AA, or this SEA amuse bouche of DL capacity will become a full on onslaught.

Does Sea-Tac have the gate space for DL's appetizer and entrée, let alone dessert?
International Homo of Mystery
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 4570
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 15):
I thought this was going away! Did SQ have a change of heart?

They are scheduled to end at the end of November.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 5347
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:28 pm

[quote=usairways85,reply=1]So that makes AS, UA, B6, DL all on this route...anyone else?[/quote

Shouldn't that read:

ASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASAS, UAUA, B6, and DL?  

-Dave
-Dave
 
User avatar
aerorobnz
Posts: 7409
Joined: Sat Feb 10, 2001 3:43 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:52 pm

The FJ frequencies and types will be quite variable until all the 332s arrive and the 744s go.

Quoting evanbu (Reply 2):
It's great to see the expansion at DIK. Business is booming!

Can't wait for flights to Big Delta Field,AK BIG-DIK..
Flown to 120 Airports in 44 Countries on 73 Operators. Visited 55 Countries and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
PHX787
Posts: 7877
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:59 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-GSO JUN 0.8>0.2 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0
Quoting rbgso (Reply 7):
That really stinks, but not completely unexpected......

Well, there goes another    but yeah totally not unexpected.... its sad, such a large airfield is now a ghost town.

BUT with 748's  
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA CLE-PHX JUN 1.0>0.2 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0.2

Doesn't US have a good handle on this route too?
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
seatback
Posts: 528
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:00 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:12 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I disagree. DL is sending a not so subtle message that AS needs to choose DL or AA, or this SEA amuse bouche of DL capacity will become a full on onslaught.

I'm not sure what's going on, but if DL's picking a fight, AS could pull out of a partnership with DL and convince AA to build up SEA>Asia.

That would not bode well for DL, as most SEA flyers would pick their hometown airline and their partner.

Delta is sunk in SEA without AS.

[Edited 2013-02-27 10:18:25]
 
threeifbyair
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:44 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:15 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
Does Sea-Tac have the gate space for DL's appetizer and entrée, let alone dessert?

On the other thread that was talking about this when it first came up, someone with knowledge of SEA operations said that DL will have access to several gates on B concourse that are being freed up with the movement of the legacy CO operations to A (to be consolidated with UA, which is moving from N). The South Satellite is pretty much jammed up at peak times.

The big markets out of SEA are all covered by AS. DL, even with these new flights, only hits a few of the largest domestic markets: LAX, LAS, ANC, NYC (JFK), and MSP. DTW is somewhat smaller, but it is now actually the only DL domestic monopoly route out of SEA except when MEM and CVG are operating.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:56 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
Quoting point2point (Reply 5):
And a bit puzzling with the DEN-MEX route

That route has been a challenge for everybody who has tried it. There are a lot of Hispanics in DEN, but not from MEX area.

Mexicans love skiing, especially in Colorado. It's a winter route. For example, MEX is the single largest feeder onto AA's MIAEGE flights. Likely nothing to do with Hispanics in Denver.
a.
 
jporterfi
Posts: 463
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:25 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:18 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA LAX-IPL APR 0.4>1.9

I'm intrigued by this increase. Any idea why UA is ramping up service to IPL? It seems strange, especially for an airport 120 miles (2 hours) from SAN, where UA has a decent operation.
 
mpdpilot
Posts: 688
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:44 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:29 pm

I have said it in other threads and I will say it again. The way partnerships between domestic airlines work is that they operate on their own and if passengers decide to book codeshares they are welcome. If DL wants an additional SEA-ANC, they must add it themselves as it is illegal to work with AS to add another flight.

Quoting seatback (Reply 21):
I'm not sure what's going on, but if DL's picking a fight, AS could pull out of a partnership with DL and convince AA to build up SEA>Asia.

And this would be illegal too. AS can't just call AA and ask them to start operating flights to Asia. If they want to offer flights to Asia for their passengers, they can either stick with DL, find a new codeshare partner who operates the flights, or call Boeing/Airbus and order some 787/A330s.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
I'm very very unconvinced DL is attacking AS

I agree 100% with you. This is Delta the second largest carrier in SEA adding routes where they feel they are needed. THEIR ONLY OPTION, as asking AS to add a flight would be illegal.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
User avatar
enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 6139
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
I'm very very unconvinced DL is attacking AS
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 11):

I think youre over-reading. You have a tendency to do that. But I appreciate your weekly report.

I said last week I was unconvinced unless they started adding routes from SEA against AS...and a week later they do that. I now believe. There is no reason to fly SEA-ANC. They have umpteen flights to code share on. The only reason to do it is to piss off AS. Plus, SEA-ANC is the classic retaliatory route against AS. Airlines have added it numerous times to make displeasure known...including B6 doing it. It's an easy retaliatory route because most airlines have planes sitting in SEA all night and it doesn't cost an airplane to send AS a "message". They all leave because the same thing always happens. AS owns the market and the interloper is reduced to selling garbage fares which AS restrictively matches and eventually the interloper leaves. Anyway, it does inflict some damage on AS. They have the most to lose with all that capacity. What % of the whole airline's ASMs is it? 20% probably.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I disagree. DL is sending a not so subtle message that AS needs to choose DL or AA, or this SEA amuse bouche of DL capacity will become a full on onslaught.

The question is what set this off. Judging from the initial build-up of AS routes from LAX it was related to AS tightening with AA, but it could also be SLC.

Quoting seatback (Reply 21):
I'm not sure what's going on, but if DL's picking a fight, AS could pull out of a partnership with DL and convince AA to build up SEA>Asia.

I'm not sure that is so easy and that might be more of what is going on. Maybe they can't pull out? The escape clause might be complicated.

Also, I think what is going on is tightly intertwined with the AA/US merger. That changes the dynamic for AS. Perhaps DL is betting that AA can't merge and also maintain the AS relationship, either because they are too big (DOJ/DOT could halt their relationship) or because now only one carrier can buy AS (AA is probably too big to bid on them and out of play for years at a minimum). Perhaps they think they can pressure AS out of the deal with AA because of the merger. That deal predated the merger announcement so we don't know if Parker supports it. Even if he does, there might be the opportunity for AS to escape it. Mergers are probably a reason to break the alliance. DL might be giving AS a reason to drop that deal.

Having said all of that...I expect we are going to see something big out of Delta. They are now #3 again and the options to move back up are to buy AS and/or try to buy pieces of AA when the court allows outside reorg plans. I used to think HA was an option for DL, but I've been convinced that HNL-USA does not have the yield to work with Delta's business plan/costs. There is also B6, but one would hope that DOJ would now allow DL to buy B6. They could buy VX, but they are too small to matter much.
 
yellowtail
Posts: 3708
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:34 pm

Enliria you missed the new LAX-SJO flight from Dec.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:48 pm

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 24):
I'm intrigued by this increase. Any idea why UA is ramping up service to IPL? It seems strange, especially for an airport 120 miles (2 hours) from SAN, where UA has a decent operation.

They are not ramping up per se.

UA is ending service to Imperial. Originally service was ending in March. However, the replacement carrier (I believe Seaport) won't be ready in March, so UA is obligated to continue Imperial until Seaport is ready, which should be May.
a.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 24517
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:50 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
Having said all of that...I expect we are going to see something big out of Delta. They are now #3 again and the options to move back up are to buy AS and/or try to buy pieces of AA when the court allows outside reorg plans. I used to think HA was an option for DL, but I've been convinced that HNL-USA does not have the yield to work with Delta's business plan/costs. There is also B6, but one would hope that DOJ would now allow DL to buy B6. They could buy VX, but they are too small to matter much.

There are no options. After US/AA is done, so are mergers. DOT/DOJ won't allow it, IMO.
a.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 4588
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:54 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Now I think they really are upset with AS.
**DL ANC-SEA JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

They are playing with fire aren't they? AS has someone else to go to, and without the AS feed, SEA withers away for DL. DL doesn't have the planes to suddenly flip a switch and have a hub at SEA.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Looks like a trade. PHX was year round before? Wonder if it will come back.
*UA CLE-PDX JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>0.8
*UA CLE-PHX JUN 1.0>0.2 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0.2

Maybe CLE-PHX won't work without the codeshare feed on the PHX end, and UA is looking down the road. Further, if/when AA pares down PHX, it would make sense for many FF to flip to oneworld since Star will be an afterthought in the market, and a focus city is still better than a spoke.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA DEN-FLL AUG 0.9>0.3 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

FLL can't even support a single flight from the hub...sort of illustrates the difficulty in establishing a focus city at FLL. Many have tried, few have succeeded.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
But a few DL flights in an expanding SEA operation ain't the end of the world. It's not as if cities are purely O&D either... DL putting a flight through SEA isn't sucking a 757 worth of passengers away from AS. Some will be O&D but most will be connecting.

Most will be connecting, but most of those will be connecting on AS metal. Seems like a spiteful move by DL.

Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
I used to think HA was an option for DL, but I've been convinced that HNL-USA does not have the yield to work with Delta's business plan/costs.

Even if HNL-mainland doesn't, what about the constantly growing network to Asia and Australia et al? Minus a hub at SEA, maybe HNL could be a sort of quasi-hub for transpac connections. I don't know the economics of the issue so please correct me if this is unfeasible. I've always thought HA would be an interesting merger partner for someone, and this was even before their recent rapid longhaul expansions. DL already has NRT obviously, but I'm not really clear on if they even really want or need the hub there if they can overfly it to the major east Asian markets.
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:18 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*ZK ELY-LAS APR 0.9>0 MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0
*ZK FMN-PGA APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
*ZK LAS-PGA APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Here's a little more detail on this....

Ely ends as of 3/31...perhaps the most lightly-used EAS city is being dropped. Ely is really remote at about 3.75 hours to SLC or LAS. But for various reasons, nobody much used this.

Page continues to have service to Denver, Phoenix, and (1-stop) Los Angeles.

Las Vegas appears to be closing for ZK. The only other LAS route was a few days per week to Merced and on to Visalia, and that does not show as saleable beyond 3/31.
 
FATFlyer
Posts: 4425
Joined: Fri May 18, 2001 4:12 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:49 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 31):
Las Vegas appears to be closing for ZK. The only other LAS route was a few days per week to Merced and on to Visalia, and that does not show as saleable beyond 3/31.

The Merced and Visalia to LAS has been cancelled. ZK claims the loss of revenue from ELY-LAS is causing the drop of the other flights also.
http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2013/02...erced-airport-ends-flights-to.html

But Merced and Visalia to LAX will continue.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
Rbgso
Posts: 288
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:58 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 29):
There are no options. After US/AA is done, so are mergers. DOT/DOJ won't allow it, IMO.

I don't disagree, however I think HA and AS would make an interesting combination. Don't know if it would get DOT approval, though.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:11 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 12):
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
I'm very very unconvinced DL is attacking AS, especially after that unity party or whatever a few months ago at SEA.

I said the same thing in the SEA-LAS announcement thread, and was laughed at by another

Yes and we could be completely wrong for all I know, but I see a.net going down the slippery slope like they always do and speculate for a few days and then all of the sudden it's FACT that DL is going for AS. The stupid rumors of DL merging with every carrier in the sun leads posters to say that DL is "creepin around and trying to buy everyone" when the only basis for that is them exploring buying MIA and the dozens of baseless rumors on this site

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 12):
Truly bizarre (especially if you read my signature line   ).

lol

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
DL is sending a not so subtle message that AS needs to choose DL or AA, or this SEA amuse bouche of DL capacity will become a full on onslaught.

AS is choosing DL... in SEA. They are not in the same alliance, they have no JV, they aren't merged. What they do in LAX is a whole other world. Why would DL get all poudy at what's happening in LAX and burn their bridges in SEA where they have a great partnership and an extremely uphill battle to fight at AS' huge SEA hub?

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 18):
ASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASAS, UAUA, B6, and DL?  

Exactly, it's not like DL is starting 6 flights. They probably have more passengers headed that way than the codeshare can handle, maybe they want brand recognition. What they aren't doing is trying to force AS off this route or go to war with them. Come on, if DL was trying to go to war they wouldn't do such a pathetic attempt, they'd be rolling out dozens of flights I would think

Quoting seatback (Reply 21):
Delta is sunk in SEA without AS.

   DL's international flights would be in huge trouble without AS' feed. Developing feed overnight would be tough, you don't see hubs spring up organically. DL @ SEA would be like PanAm, international and long haul routes with little domestic feed

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 25):
If DL wants an additional SEA-ANC, they must add it themselves as it is illegal to work with AS to add another flight.

   What is DL to do if they want an extra flight? They gotta add it themselves. I doubt AS will even notice an extra 757 on the route

Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
There is no reason to fly SEA-ANC. They have umpteen flights to code share on. The only reason to do it is to piss off AS

   No reason? Can you back that up? How many seats does DL codeshare with AS on SEA-ANC? How many passengers are booking XXX-SEA-ANC on DL? What do you expect DL to do, tell AS they need more SEA-ANC? **ILLEGAL** !!!



DL is growing at SEA. They are going to generate more traffic and they're gonna need to add flights if AS isn't adding quickly enough. DL going to war with AS all of the sudden is like the US military opening a new base in Egypt with a battalion of soldiers and then going to war with Egypt... they'd get their asses handed to them

Now if we see AS start dumping capacity on any route DL opens, maybe we'll see some tension. Maybe DL would back off, indirectly coordinating schedules since talking to each other would be illegal. Who knows, I just think saying they're at war is almost conspiratorial... we only have a little evidence and a TON of speculation, something this site is notorious for
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 2241
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:55 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 32):
The Merced and Visalia to LAS has been cancelled. ZK claims the loss of revenue from ELY-LAS is causing the drop of the other flights also.
http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2013/02...erced-airport-ends-flights-to.html

But Merced and Visalia to LAX will continue.

Thanks...I should have been clearer that MCE and VIS were not being dropped...just the handful of Vegas flights per week.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:00 pm

DL also returns the morning flight from SBN-MSP.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:22 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 34):
we could be completely wrong for all I know, but I see a.net going down the slippery slope like they always do and speculate for a few days and then all of the sudden it's FACT that DL is going for AS.
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 34):
DL is growing at SEA. They are going to generate more traffic and they're gonna need to add flights if AS isn't adding quickly enough.

   I don't understand why folks think that adding a few strategic flights—as DL did when they ran the Asian hub at PDX, to add feed where they believe it's lacking—is tantamount to bringing a fight to AS' doorstep.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 27):
Enliria you missed the new LAX-SJO flight from Dec.

That'll probably show up on next week's OAG feed.
International Homo of Mystery
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:30 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I disagree. DL is sending a not so subtle message that AS needs to choose DL or AA, or this SEA amuse bouche of DL capacity will become a full on onslaught.

I don't think that is what is happening. Actually the message is quite subtle. A not so subtle message would be flying SEA-BOS/ORD or DFW.
 
EricR
Posts: 1223
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:31 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
Having said all of that...I expect we are going to see something big out of Delta. They are now #3 again and the options to move back up are to buy AS and/or try to buy pieces of AA when the court allows outside reorg plans. I used to think HA was an option for DL, but I've been convinced that HNL-USA does not have the yield to work with Delta's business plan/costs. There is also B6, but one would hope that DOJ would now allow DL to buy B6. They could buy VX, but they are too small to matter much.



Keep in mind that big things can be accomplished without a merger or buyout of another carrier.
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:36 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 39):
Keep in mind that big things can be accomplished without a merger or buyout of another carrier.

We also need to keep in mind that being the biggest doesn't matter. I don't see WN, AS, or even G4 plotting to become the largest. I think DL would be smart to work on maximizing their profits rather than getting points for being the largest. Wasn't PanAm the largest airline? Remember guys, size doesn't matter, money does  
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:45 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 40):
Wasn't PanAm the largest airline?

Pan Am was never the largest US airline - United, American, and Delta were the Top 3 for the longest time...Pan Am was something like #5 or #6...
 
TWA902fly
Posts: 2869
Joined: Fri Dec 31, 1999 5:47 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:38 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DIK-MSP JUN 0>1.4 JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>2 OCT 0>2
Quoting evanbu (Reply 2):

It's great to see the expansion at DIK. Business is booming!

While the oil boom is causing a boom in all kinds of business, I can't help but think DL is being reactionary in these markets. a year ago ISN and DIK were ZK-only airports. UA announced 2x/day DEN-ISN, and a few days later DL announced MSP-ISN.

Now UA announces DEN-DIK 2x/day, and about 10 days later DL comes back with MSP-DIK. Even with the oil boom, it seems this may be a somewhat shortsighted response instead of any real planning on DL's part. I could see both of them staying if ZK tones down it's (very unreliable) service, however.

'902
life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
 
Bobloblaw
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:45 pm

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 42):
While the oil boom is causing a boom in all kinds of business, I can't help but think DL is being reactionary in these markets. a year ago ISN and DIK were ZK-only airports. UA announced 2x/day DEN-ISN, and a few days later DL announced MSP-ISN.

I think Delta had these on their radar. Delta's Planning dept isn't that reactive but more proactive. They probably had these markets planned and might have moved up the start date is all.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13173
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:54 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 29):
After US/AA is done, so are mergers. DOT/DOJ won't allow it, IMO.

I agree, save smaller deals like if someone wanted to takeover VX (unlikely) or if say B6 wanted to merge with NK.

Quoting panamair (Reply 41):
Pan Am was never the largest US airline - United, American, and Delta were the Top 3 for the longest time...Pan Am was something like #5 or #6...

Eastern was the largest US airline.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 1889
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:05 am

There's been discussion about EA as the largest U.S. airline. In the early 70s that didn't appear to be so.

In 1970 Who Was The Top 4 Largest Airlines (by 747400sp Feb 7 2009 in Aviation Polls)
 
Prost
Posts: 1867
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:57 am

Regarding rhe AS/DL codeshare relationship, and whether it has devolved into a spat, I ask only this:

Most airlines in the US are operating very lean, with very high load factors and not a lot of slack in their fleets. I believe the carriers with the most slack/ability to add flights are WN(if they chose to operate a large set of redeye flights only) VX, and I believe, DL. Since AS has successfully ramped up their Hawaiian operations, they are firing on all cylinders, and utilizing their assets to their fullest abilities, generating handsome profits to their investors. I imagine that DL sees the bookings for their customers, and there are some sub-optimal connections being generated with their code share partner AS, which AS is unable to handle, so DL made the decision to utilize their assets in these markets.

I personally don't feel this is a ploy to make AS choose between AA or DL, it is just DL taking care of their own customers.

I also believe that in the near future (6-36 months) there will be opportunities for AS as AA and US sort out their merger.

I've never heard what Mr. Parker thinks about the AA/AS codeshare, so that might be an interesting dynamic to see play out.
 
AeroWesty
Posts: 19551
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 7:37 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:10 am

Quoting prost (Reply 46):
Regarding rhe AS/DL codeshare relationship, and whether it has devolved into a spat, I ask only this:

Perhaps any further discussion of DL messing with AS could be continued in this still open thread where this issue was hashed over just recently:

Rumor Of DL/AS Squabble (by jetjack74 Feb 16 2013 in Civil Aviation)

It'd allow this thread to continue to be on the topic of the OAG changes and not get locked.
International Homo of Mystery
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 15200
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:48 am

Quoting seatback (Reply 21):
That would not bode well for DL, as most SEA flyers would pick their hometown airline and their partner.

I'm not so sure. DL has at least two hubs worth of capacity (CVG/MEM) that could appear in SEA quickly, and covering the major trunk routes wouldn't be difficult for DL, plus they'd have the network benefit of covering the entire US as well as numerous nonstops to Europe and Asia. I really don't think AS has any more leverage than DL here--they could both make life really unpleasant for the other quickly.

Quoting enilria (Reply 26):
Judging from the initial build-up of AS routes from LAX it was related to AS tightening with AA, but it could also be SLC

I think it's safe to say it's the AA relationship--no one cares about SLC, but DL's entire West Coast strategy is based on a partner who turned around and doubled down with a major competitor.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 34):
Why would DL get all poudy at what's happening in LAX and burn their bridges in SEA where they have a great partnership and an extremely uphill battle to fight at AS' huge SEA hub?

In the long run DL needs to control the flow that supports its SEA transpacific flying; right now most of that flow is on a carrier that is in deep with AA. I don't think this setup can last for long--something is going to have to change: either AS dumps AA, DL builds up SEA further and dumps AS, or DL dumps SEA transpacific.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
tys777
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 1:43 am

RE: OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4

Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:54 am

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 42):
While the oil boom is causing a boom in all kinds of business, I can't help but think DL is being reactionary in these markets. a year ago ISN and DIK were ZK-only airports. UA announced 2x/day DEN-ISN, and a few days later DL announced MSP-ISN.

Now UA announces DEN-DIK 2x/day, and about 10 days later DL comes back with MSP-DIK. Even with the oil boom, it seems this may be a somewhat shortsighted response instead of any real planning on DL's part. I could see both of them staying if ZK tones down it's (very unreliable) service, however.

'902

The thing to remember with ISN is that they needed a waiver to operate a CRJ into the airport as the ramp wasn't designed to handle that kind of weight. They are actually discussing building a whole new airport outside of town to meet the demands.

It wouldn't surprise me if there was a similar issue in DIK that required a waiver and why the announcements are made at about the same time.

Who is online