Gonzalo
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Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:34 pm

Although I'm fully aware about how minimal are the chances that AZ could effectively disappear ( I think that chances are minimal even in the current political and economical situation in Italy ), I'm curious about how could a situation like that will be handled by the Vatican. According to all the experts, the next Pope will be much younger than Ratzinger, and one could expect he will be more active and probably a FF, but who will carry him if AZ finally can't survive the crisis ?

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kl911
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:57 pm

Well, I just checked, and there is no pope anymore for the moment. Maybe they will first check out Alitalia before appointing another one.  
 
AustrianZRH
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:03 pm

Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
Well, I just checked, and there is no pope anymore for the moment. Maybe they will first check out Alitalia before appointing another one.

You are one hour too early with that statement  . His resignation is effective 2000 hours Z+0100, 28FEB13  .
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:05 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
but who will carry him if AZ finally can't survive the crisis ?

The new entity that will inevitable emerge from the ashes if AZ goes down......think Swissair >> Swiss
 
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Stitch
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:05 pm

Maybe LH will bring back Lufthansa Italia and name one of the airframes "Vatican City".   
 
audidudi
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:19 pm

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 3):

The Papal Swiss Guards are Swiss soldiers also......think Swissair >> Swiss!
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:23 pm

At one time, PA, TW and AA flew the Pope to the US, not AZ.

I'd say that in the event of an AZ collapse, he would fly the flag carrier of the country that he is going to, much like how it used to be.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
n729pa
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:25 pm

Emirates! They go pretty much anywhere and everywhere!
 
PHX787
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:41 pm

Could they just buy a private aircraft? and like, supersize the security on it?

Or buy Prince Waleed's A380 that's purportedly on sale    (talk about interfaith dialogue    )

Quoting n729pa (Reply 7):
Emirates! They go pretty much anywhere and everywhere!

I doubt they'd sell a jet a catholic   
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
EIDL
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:43 pm

EI always made a (likely completely spurious) claim about being the first airline to carry the Pope that wasn't AZ. They're getting in to a lot of contract flying again now...
 
alfa164
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:48 pm

Just put wings on the Pope-mobile...
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:57 pm

Quoting n729pa (Reply 7):
Emirates! They go pretty much anywhere and everywhere!

I don't think that's an option for TLV...  
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
vfw614
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:58 pm

Ryanair.

They serve the better suited Rome airport anyway.

More seriously, maybe he would have access to the Italian government's fleet? Noted this afternoom that he used a Repubblica Italia helicopter for his farewell flight.
 
JoePatroni707
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:04 pm

The pope flew AA once from DEN to FCO I think it was around 1991 or so.
 
vfw614
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:06 pm

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 13):
The pope flew AA once from DEN to FCO I think it was around 1991 or so.

The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia.
 
JoePatroni707
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:11 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 14):
The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia.

Interesting did not know that, thanks for the tip. Perhaps the Pope can buy a Ferrari and just drive real fast instead of fly.
 
kl911
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:46 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 14):
The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia.

Wouldn't that be very expensive, having two empty ferry flights ?
 
vfw614
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:51 pm

You would have two emtpy ferry flights anyway as most papal visits last a couple of days (or even longer if it is a tour) which make it rhater unlikely that an aircraft would stay with the pope for the duration of the trip.

Anyway, afaik, the costs are covered by the rather hefty ticket prices journos have to pay to travel on board Papa Force 1.
 
mastermis
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:59 pm

VIRGIN seems appropriate!  
 
vfw614
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:21 pm

 
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N14AZ
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:51 pm

Here are my proposals:


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Paolo92
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:58 pm

Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
 
Gonzalo
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:02 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 20):
Here are my proposals:

I swear I was expecting a picture of the beloved "Hooters Air "....  

G.
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AZA330
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:28 pm

I guess it will depend on what frequent flyer program he will sign up for  
 
Viscount724
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:50 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 14):
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 13):
The pope flew AA once from DEN to FCO I think it was around 1991 or so.

The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia.

Prior to their demise, TWA was the most frequently-used US carrier on papal visits to the U.S. TW carried the Pope on at least 5 different trips between 1965 and 1999.

Story and photo from a 1995 trip from BWI to FCO (on TWA's first 767-200, N601TW). More photos with the story.
http://www.twaflightattendants.com/papalcharter.html

 
Gonzalo
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:38 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
Story and photo from a 1995 trip from BWI to FCO

Wow... what a wonderful experience.... thanks for sharing that photo too, combines my passion for aviation with the image of a man that, regardless all his mistakes as a human, was in my opinion sincerely worried for the people around the world, specially the less fortunate.


Rgds.
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Ratypus
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:03 pm

"The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia."

So the pope will be visiting Singapore a lot, and Zimbabwe rather less then?
 
vfw614
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:12 pm

Interesting reference in one of the clippings on the TWA Flight Attendant's website that on an earlier flight, TWA served Pope John Paul II a meat dish on a Friday, apparently not being aware of the fact the he would not touch meat on a Friday.
 
egph
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:32 pm

I'm sure that for all but long-haul flights to North/South America and the Far East/ Oceania the Aeronautica Militare (Italian Air Force) could give him use for on of the A319CJ or Dassault Falcon's they have if there was nothing better on offer. Otherwise I'm sure a trip down to CIA would keep FR happy  Smile

[Edited 2013-03-01 06:34:34]
 
Quokkas
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:45 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 11):
Quoting n729pa (Reply 7):Emirates! They go pretty much anywhere and everywhere!
I don't think that's an option for TLV...

It would be a no go for Berlin as well. And he'd have to be careful what day he wanted to visit Toronto. At least if he wanted to go to Israel he could go via Amman and visit Mount Nebo, near Madaba (where Moses viewed the Promised Land) along the way, as a previous Pope did.  
Quoting EGPH (Reply 28):
Otherwise I'm sure a trip down to CIA would keep FR happy

Well, if a donkey was good enough for Jesus when he rode into Jerusalem, then the Pope should be perfectly happy with FR. I hope he remembers to print his boarding pass.  
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
braynfeeble
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:34 pm

Pope John Paul II flew on us (5T) the plane still has a plaque near the entry door.
♥☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨* ♥☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*
 
dcajet
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:04 pm

I am certain that the Vatican will have no problem procuring an airline that will gladly fly His Holiness. All flights ex-Rome are the responsibility of Alitalia, a remainder from the days when Alitalia was state owned. The Republic of Italy and the Holy See coexistence is defined by the Treaty of Lateran.

Airlines bid for the return flight to Italy and they are approved by the Holy See on a number of criteria, not the least of them being historical ties - TWA was a key example of that.

Now, is it me but I struggle with the opening question and I find the idea of speculating if and when an airline disappears a bit in bad taste. No airline is eternal, even the best managed ones, so sooner or later all of them will face transformation or extinction. But to assume that Alitalia's days are numbered, I don't know... Why keep harping on it? Rumors of Alitalia's death have been greatly exaggerated.

Back in 1844, the Spanish writer José Zorrilla wrote in his "Don Juan Tenorio" the following phrase: "Los muertos que vos matais gozan de buena salud" (the dead you kill enjoy good health") - AZ may not be in good health but it ain't dying either...
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
 
n729pa
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:57 pm

I heard a rumour that the Pope was scared stiff of flying.......

Well how many passengers do you see come off a plane and the first thing they do is kiss the ground!
 
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longhauler
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:28 pm

Quoting n729pa (Reply 32):
Well how many passengers do you see come off a plane and the first thing they do is kiss the ground!

Its funny you should say that. I remember when the Pope visited Canada, and watching his arrival on television from the Alitalia airplane.

After kissing the ground, one of the commentators asked why he would do that. The other said "Oh, have you never flown Alitalia?" I roared!
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
alfa164
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:31 pm

Quoting n729pa (Reply 32):

In all probablitiy, you shouldn't use the term "stiff" and "Pope" in the same sentence...  
 
bx737
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:19 pm

Quoting EIDL (Reply 9):

In 1979 Pope John Paul II flew from Rome to Dublin and then onwards to Boston with Aer Lingus. I think it was one of the first times the Pope flew with an airline other than Alitalia.

[Edited 2013-03-01 12:19:59]
 
alfa164
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:22 pm

I would thing Virgin would be a natural...  
 
jfk777
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:58 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
one time, PA, TW and AA flew the Pope to the US, not AZ.

FROM the USA to Rome, but Alitalia few the Popes to America. Its the airline of the country where the flight originates that carries the Pope. The only time this has not happenend is when John Paul went to Havana in 1998 and Benedict in 2012, AZ did it boh ways. When JP went to Poland AZ flew both legs too. TWA was the Pope's favorite US airline but then it was the one with long ties to Itally too.
 
egph
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 9:55 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 37):
When JP went to Poland AZ flew both legs too.

Surprising really, I thought LOT would have been only too happy to oblige in that circumstance. Even both ways if need be.
 
jfk777
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:39 pm

Quoting EGPH (Reply 38):
Surprising really, I thought LOT would have been only too happy to oblige in that circumstance. Even both ways if need be.

The vatican approving his holiness fly a russian plane, I don't think so. Some of those trips to Poland were during Iron Curtain times. Since when is LOT an airline of Papal standards ? Today with 787 it could be but before joining the Star Alliance I doubt it.
 
jfk777
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:44 pm

Quoting EGPH (Reply 38):
Surprising really, I thought LOT would have been only too happy to oblige in that circumstance. Even both ways if need be.

The vatican approving his holiness fly a russian plane, I don't think so. Some of those trips to Poland were during Iron Curtain times. Since when is LOT an airline of Papal standards ? Today with 787 it could be but before joining the Star Alliance I doubt it.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:50 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 37):
and Benedict in 2012, AZ did it both ways.

The AZ 777 also carried the Pope on one U.S. domestic sector on that trip, IAD-JFK if memory correct.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:01 pm

No mention of the Pope flying Concorde, and the one that ultimately crashed to boot ?

New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
WROORD
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:52 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 40):
The vatican approving his holiness fly a russian plane, I don't think so. Some of those trips to Poland were during Iron Curtain times. Since when is LOT an airline of Papal standards ? Today with 787 it could be but before joining the Star Alliance I doubt it.

That was on his first trip. Indeed AZ did it both way. However, all other trips he flew to Poland on AZ and back on LO 737-400, which at that time was a new plane.
 
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enilria
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:00 am

If all else fails he can be ferried around by the Flying Nun. I'm sure there is a Super-Guppy Model...
 
Devilfish
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:31 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
I'd say that in the event of an AZ collapse, he would fly the flag carrier of the country that he is going to, much like how it used to be.

Would that remove PR from the blacklist and allow it to fly to Rome in case the elected Pope decides to visit RP?   


Quoting EGPH (Reply 28):
I'm sure that for all but long-haul flights to North/South America and the Far East/ Oceania the Aeronautica Militare (Italian Air Force) could give him use for on of the A319CJ or Dassault Falcon's they have if there was nothing better on offer.

Well, HH flew on MM81806 before.....

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.....but given the ongoing financial crisis, they might invoke "separation of Church and State" and bill the Vatican for the use of these   .....

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baw716
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:39 am

I think we are putting the cart before the metaphorical horse.

We need a Pope first.

Then we can talk about who he will fly (and yes, as long as AZ is around, it will be AZ).

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
captainstefan
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RE: Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?

Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:30 am

Quoting mastermis (Reply 18):
VIRGIN seems appropriate!
Quoting alfa164 (Reply 36):
I would thing Virgin would be a natural...

I don't want to be one to perpetuate rumors - but with some of the scandals bubbling up lately I'd leave Sir Richard's entity out of the discussion   

In jest, of course. I am personally surprised His Holiness hasn't switched to all private flying in recent years.
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