eastern023
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Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:35 pm

I was wondering if Swiss International will ever become Swissair or use the SR iata rather than LX. They still own the brand logo, name and code.

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IrishAyes
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:45 pm

Why would they do that??? Just to revive the name of a dead brand over a decade after it ceased to exist? That's like saying, "will AirTran ever become ValuJet again?"

Rebrandings cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Why would LX/LH Group waste all of that money just to return to a name that is no longer relevant? And undergo massive IT overhauls to change the callsign on LX-operated flights? Nobody cares and it is certainly not even remotely costing LX any business...
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1stfl94
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:16 pm

I'm not sure if they can legally, Swissair stopped flying in 2002 but it took a lot longer to wind down the business. The ownership of the brand may also be a bit more complicated because of a court case involving the former executives in 2007
 
vegas005
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:52 pm

Swiss (now LH) own the rights to the name. They purchased the name in 2009 really cheap.

http://bazonline.ch/wirtschaft/unter...wiss-kauft-Swissair/story/31437367

[Edited 2013-03-01 11:53:43]
 
sailas
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:31 pm

I think they never will. It used to be called the flying bank until it crashed and things went really bad. For that reason im sure they do not want the name back.
Airlines been on: AY, LX, SR, OS, SK, KF, EZY, FR, BA, LH, AF, TG, DC, FC, TK, KL, BT, CX, QR
 
lhcvg
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:06 pm

Quoting 1stfl94 (Reply 2):
I'm not sure if they can legally, Swissair stopped flying in 2002 but it took a lot longer to wind down the business. The ownership of the brand may also be a bit more complicated because of a court case involving the former executives in 2007

I seem to recall some kind of debt or other financial issue where them using the official Swissair name would cause them trouble. I can't put my finger on it, but if memory serves somehow the switch from the SR to LX code had something to do with it - divesting all (formal) ties with the legacy Swissair brand altogether.
 
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OA260
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:13 pm

The current Swiss brand is strong and well recognised. It would be wrong to go back to Swissair. Whilst I have fond memories of the old Swissair and their fleet those were the old days and a different era. The crash would have alot of negative perception that Swiss seems to have a clean slate. As the saying goes if its not broke dont fix it.
 
AirBuffalo
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:27 pm

Hmmm ... did someone see Argo recently and got nostalgic?

All the points above are true. From the perspective of Swiss citizens the demise was a real blow to national pride in a culture where pride, success, and appearance mean a lot. There were movies made about it: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0449959/ . For that reason alone I think there's zero chance of ditching the respected, signature name of SWISS.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:27 pm

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 3):
Swiss (now LH) own the rights to the name. They purchased the name in 2009 really cheap.

It wasn't that cheap. Around 10 million Swiss Francs if memory correct. LX said at the time that they had no plans to use the name but wanted to prevent anyone else from using it.

I agree LX will not revive the Swissair name. There's no point. Nobody wants to be reminded of a bankrupt, badly-managed airline that also had a very poor image in the French-speaking region of Switzerland after almost abandoning GVA in the mid-1990s to reinforce the ZRH hub. That was the correct decision but it was very badly accepted in GVA and many formerly-loyal Swissair customers refused to fly Swissair after those actions.
 
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SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:29 pm

Swiss has had to fight a tough battle to gain recognition for its brand, I don't see how reviving the old Swissair name would be a wise choice. Plus, as already mentioned, Swissair has disappeared in a very sad way. There was only one Swissair, just like there was only one Pan Am or Braniff, and any attempt at using their names will never bring back either the original companies nor all the good things and memories that are associated with them. The future is forward, not backward. It's been tough enough for all the former SR employees to see all they had believed in being shattered in flight.
 
sailas
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:44 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 8):

I remember flying Swissair alot from GVA when i was younger but changed to other airlines because of them nearly abandoning GVA. Its nice to see GVA growing these days.
Airlines been on: AY, LX, SR, OS, SK, KF, EZY, FR, BA, LH, AF, TG, DC, FC, TK, KL, BT, CX, QR
 
sweair
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:18 am

I hope they get 748is   That would set them apart from many competitors, not the latest and greatest but classy for sure, not your average 77W bus ride.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:48 am

Quoting eastern023 (Thread starter):
will Swiss ever become Swissair

You mean, cease to exist?   
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
okay
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 11:17 am

Swissair was a great airline, and I have always wondered if AY used Swissair as a paragon in 1960's when the name Finnair was first introduced as a marketing name and later adopted as the official name. Also the liveries resembled each other with cheet line and flag on tail, of course representing colors and features of respective countries.

The name SWISS is great, too. It is part of the well-known slogan "Swiss Made" which stands for high quality and reliability, not bad thinking to adopt this word as company name IMO.

I would also assume there would be legal action against any attempt to revive the name Swissair. They did declare bankruptcy in all fairness.
 
luganopirate
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:10 pm

I believe LX was the sign for Crossair. Looking at FlightRadar 24 the 3 letter code is "SWR". I beleive the airlines full name is Swiss International Airlines. Despite the above comments, there are many Swiss and Swiss personnel who would love to revert to the old name and I'm one of them. There are many companies who went bankrupt and have been reborn with the same name, so why not Swissair?
 
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OA260
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:27 pm

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 14):
I believe LX was the sign for Crossair.

Yes indeed it was . I once flew Crossair on the LGW-BSL route ( codeshare BA) .
 
PITrules
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 12:57 pm

While I agree with all the above comments how it would not be appropriate to change SWISS back to Swissair in 2013 going forward.. I still fail to see why LX did't use the newly acquired Swissair name from the start. Just like the American Airlines name continues on after being merged/acquired by US Airways. Whatever interruption in service that resulted in Swissair's shutdown would now be long forgotten if their namesake continued onward...

[Edited 2013-03-02 05:28:04]
FLYi
 
airbazar
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:11 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
The current Swiss brand is strong and well recognised. It would be wrong to go back to Swissair.

I agree. In addition we're getting to the point where the younger generation doesn't remember Swissair anymore so why change a now well established and reputable brand name to something widely unrecognized?
 
Unflug
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:52 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 16):
I still fail to see why LX did't use the newly acquired Swissair name from the start.

See link in reply #3:

Quoting vegas005 (Reply 3):
Swiss (now LH) own the rights to the name. They purchased the name in 2009 really cheap.

http://bazonline.ch/wirtschaft/unter...37367

They purchased the brand in 2009 for around 10 Million SFR. When they started Swiss in 2002 the brand Swissair was valued at 500 Million SFR, according to the article. In 2002 the brand would have been too expensive, in 2009 it did not make sense to use the brand after having successfully established the new brand.
 
PITrules
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 2:14 pm

Quoting Unflug (Reply 18):
When they started Swiss in 2002 the brand Swissair was valued at 500 Million SFR, according to the article. In 2002 the brand would have been too expensive,

Didn't Crossair acquire the Swissair certificate, and weren't Swissair's assets merged into the new entity?

500 million SFR for the Swissair brand?...

I guess I'm confused as to how Crossair acquired Swissair (their assets, airplanes, crews, etc), but the brand was not part of that deal. Furthermore if it was really valued at 500 million SFR one would think that such a value could be leveraged toward their own recovery?

[Edited 2013-03-02 06:16:29]
FLYi
 
aviasian
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:33 pm

The Lufthansa Group probably purchase the "SWISSAIR" name just to prevent another entity from purchasing that name and establishing a new airline using that name.

KC Sim
 
bennett123
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:44 pm

If they re named Swissair, would the creditors of the "old" Swissair have a claim against them?.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 4:08 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 21):

If any company had used the Swissair name without buying the rights to that trademark, the liquidators would have to sue that company because they have a duty to protect Swissair's wealth.

But Swissair and Swiss International Air Lines are different companies with different entries on the commercial registry. As LX has bought the rights to the Swissair name, they can repaint their aircraft in Swissair colors. They should do this once for a retrojet livery.  



David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
brilondon
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 5:51 pm

Too many bad memories associated with Swissair. The crash off the Nova Scotia coast is what comes to my mind, and that was 15 years ago. There are commemorative markers all around Peggy's Cove to remind you of that night. They may own the name but really, would they want put all that money for re-branding to a brand associated with the 111 disaster. Yes, it was not the airline's fault but the perception of that incident still haunts many. I believe that shortly after the crash was when Swissair went bankrupt.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
adambrau
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:22 pm

I still refer to it as Swissair, it so close to the Swiss name anyway. Just as I love to ask the UA checkin agents where the Red Carpet Club is located  
 
dennys
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:42 pm

Quoting sweair (Reply 11):

I hope they get 748is That would set them apart from many competitors, not the latest and greatest but classy for sure, not your average 77W bus ride

the LH group already chose the 773 ER to replace 343s .
 
dennys
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:44 pm

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 14):
I believe LX was the sign for Crossair. Looking at FlightRadar 24 the 3 letter code is "SWR".

Thanks ti Flight Radar ! SWR is swissair for me !
 
dennys
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:54 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 21):
Quoting bennett123 (Reply 21):
If they re named Swissair, would the creditors of the "old" Swissair have a claim against them?.

That was one of the main reason between 2002 and 2012 .
Now i do not know . The thing is that thanks to CROSSAIR Ltd , the airline SWISS could ever survive from 01 st April 2002 . SR had a lot of creditors outside Switzeland . As an ex SR passenger , the Swissair history is hard to remember .

Let her belong to the past glorious days of SWISSAIR !
cheers
 
ZRH
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting dennys (Reply 25):
the LH group already chose the 773 ER to replace 343s .

????? This only a rumor about 6 frames for SWISS to replace the oldest 343. If true it is probably an ad interim solution until the 350-1000 is ready. Absolutely nothing confirmed. I only believe in a SWISS 773 ER when I see her in the colors. In my opinion it makes no sense to have a extra pilot corps for only 6 frames.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:03 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 23):
Yes, it was not the airline's fault but the perception of that incident still haunts many. I believe that shortly after the crash was when Swissair went bankrupt.

SR111 crashed on September 2, 1998. SR went bankrupt after September 11, 2001. Worldwide aviation was so shaken that airlines with small financial cushions could not survive that.

However, SR111 was a traumatic event for Swissair and all its employees. So in order to survive psychologically, within Swissair everybody had to trust anybody else - which did not lead to an atmosphere where the directorial board could be openly questioned about the dangerous growth strategy (involvements in Sabena, LOT, Volare, LTU...)


David

[Edited 2013-03-02 12:07:17]
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
AY-MD11
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:06 pm

They should be Swissair and like AirFrance should change them name back to Air France. It's like BA would change them name BritishAirways with no space..  
 
Viscount724
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:17 pm

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 14):
I believe LX was the sign for Crossair. Looking at FlightRadar 24 the 3 letter code is "SWR".

When Crossair became Swiss they retained their LX IATA code (and the IATA 3-digit accounting code 724) but adopted Swissair's ICAO code "SWR".

Quoting luganopirate (Reply 14):
There are many companies who went bankrupt and have been reborn with the same name, so why not Swissair?

You won't find many airlines (I can't think of one) that resurrect the name of a bankrupt failed airline and become successful.

Quoting brilondon (Reply 23):
would they want put all that money for re-branding to a brand associated with the 111 disaster. Yes, it was not the airline's fault but the perception of that incident still haunts many. I believe that shortly after the crash was when Swissair went bankrupt.

The Swissair 111 crash had little effect on Swissair's traffic. In fact there were many stories in the media that said the way Swissair handled the aftermath of that accident and dealt with the families of the victims etc. actually improved Swissair's image.
 
luganopirate
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:19 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 19):

It was CS and UBS that put up the money to take over the assets, routes etc of Swissair. Crossair under Moritz Suter was a small profitable airline that was to a great degree dependant on Swissair. After the takeover Crossair was renamed Swiss with Suter as CEO. Following a disagreement with the board and possible legal action against some board members Suter resigned.
 
luganopirate
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:27 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 21):

No. It's totally seperate from the old SR and therefore carries none of those liabilities.
 
goosebayguy
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:52 pm

To me its still Swissair.
 
adambrau
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:20 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 29):
However, SR111 was a traumatic event for Swissair and all its employees. So in order to survive psychologically, within Swissair everybody had to trust anybody else - which did not lead to an atmosphere where the directorial board could be openly questioned about the dangerous growth strategy (involvements in Sabena, LOT, Volare, LTU...)

I worked gates and arrivals for a skeleton crew of SR when 111 went down. We shared an office with Sabena and Austrian. Delta handled most functions, I guess we were there for quality control. The effect of that crash on all of us that night was devastating, because we prided ourselves so much in our techs, our service and our loyal customers. I have never experienced grieving like that before, well perhaps 9/11 as I live 5 blocks from the WTC.

Once the initial shock wore off, business seemed just as strong. We had Richard Gere on the original renumbered 115 less than a week later. But my colleagues, especially those who were long timers, aged 10 years overnight. RIP to all the victims.
 
brilondon
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:33 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 21):
If they re named Swissair, would the creditors of the "old" Swissair have a claim against them?.

No, it is not the same corporation. The creditors cannot touch a new airline who is a totally different in ownership and has no connection with the old Swissair except if they choose to own and use the name Swissair.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:46 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
The current Swiss brand is strong and well recognised. It would be wrong to go back to Swissair.

On the contrary, a lot of the lay public still call it "Swissair."
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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Viscount724
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:06 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
The current Swiss brand is strong and well recognised. It would be wrong to go back to Swissair.

On the contrary, a lot of the lay public still call it "Swissair."

I'm sure that's true when you're a long way from Switzerland, but in Switzerland the name "Swissair' brings back bad memories for many people. Certainly not for their inflight service but for their terrible management errors in their latter years that resulted in their bankruptcy and resulting demise.

In terms of inflight service, of the many airlines I've flown only 2 or 3 come close to matching Swissair in it's prime. Even in Y class their service was better than what you get in business class on many carriers today.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:23 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
On the contrary, a lot of the lay public still call it "Swissair."

The Crossair liveries had to be changed into the new Swiss liveries, and Swiss hired the designer Tyler Brule to devise the new appearance.

His first change was to change the old Swissair red to something darker. His second change was to make the Swiss cross slimmer. Both changes met popular protest, and so...

...the same old colors and cross designs can be seen on the Swissair and Swiss planes:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gerry Stegmeier


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Paul Spijkers



And here a photograph showing the proposed design:




That's one reason why Swiss is a separate firm, but people still think Swissair = SWISS.


David

[Edited 2013-03-02 14:30:52]
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
flyingturtle
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:27 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 38):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swissair gives a good oversight on the history.


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
dennys
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:53 pm

Quoting ZRH (Reply 28):

????? This only a rumor about 6 frames for SWISS to replace the oldest 343. If true it is probably an ad interim solution until the 350-1000 is ready. Absolutely nothing confirmed. I only believe in a SWISS 773 ER when I see her in the colors. In my opinion it makes no sense to have a extra pilot corps for only 6 frames.


I really hope you shall be right ; we also heard about 6 x A346 ex LH .
For the time being A343s suit the SWR network .
 
baw716
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sun Mar 03, 2013 1:37 am

Swissair is now a part of aviation history. Let it remain so.

Swiss (and LH) have spent a great deal of time, energy and money developing the "Swiss" brand; even now, they are repainting their aircraft to simply say "Swiss". They have been working diligently to build Swiss as a high quality brand. To go back to using the name Swissair would entail a rebranding of the airline which just doesn't make economic sense.

I remember Swissair with great affection, although its demise was driven by some rather dubious management decisions coupled with the tragic loss of SR111. The new Swiss is strong and well integrated into the world of LH and stands well positioned to capture a greater piece of the high yield revenue for which its brand is being built.

Also, with respect to the LX code; it matters not as much...the three letter code for the airline is SWR...so for those of you who want to have a piece of Swissair in the new company, this is as good as it will get.

Sometime change, albeit difficult, is not a bad thing. From the ashes of Swissair has risen a true Phoenix; a stronger company and an even stronger brand for its home country.

baw716
David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
 
sandrozrh
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:31 am

Many ATC controllers still call us "Swissair", even in the states. Puts a smile on my face everytime  
 
DALCE
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sun Mar 03, 2013 7:58 am

When the robbery in Brussels on the Helvetic operated SWISS flight to ZRH occured, various dutch newspapers posted that a Swissair flight was robbed. The brandname Swissair is still SOOOO strong.....We don't even have to paint the planes in Swissair livery  
They call us Swissair anyway 
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douglasyxz
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:32 am

Would LX sell a single ticket more if named Swissair, I seriously doubt that. The name Swiss is well established and strong - to me related to a new and modern airline. Going back to Swissair (means going back 11 years in history) wouldn't bring benefits but only satisfy sentimental memories. No problem when LX planes being called Swissair, let ATCs have their fun.
An airline - as other companies - must prepare for the future, not bother their past.

In addition, I do like the name Swiss much more along with the modern livery. The corporate identity of Swiss brand is nicely done and has got nothing to do with Swissair which is dated back of 20th century. Sorry for all SR-fans but let's face the reality.
 
LXSWISS
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:19 pm

Quoting AirBuffalo (Reply 7):
Hmmm ... did someone see Argo recently and got nostalgic?

I watched Argo, and yes it brought some good old memories !

Regarding the Reg of the 747 used in the movie, it's HB-ISO but this Reg really belonged to a DC-9...strange.

LXSWISS
Nothing beats that feeling when you first step off the plane and the warm air hits you!
 
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OA260
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Mon Mar 04, 2013 12:03 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 37):
On the contrary, a lot of the lay public still call it "Swissair."

I never hear anyone call it Swissair anymore. In fact the last time I ever heard anything about the two was when someone said that Swiss were not as good as Swissair were.  
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 38):
I'm sure that's true when you're a long way from Switzerland, but in Switzerland the name "Swissair' brings back bad memories for many people.

Well in the UK and Ireland they are aware of the Swiss brand and in many other countries. Swiss have done alot to promote their brand to everywhere they fly.

Quoting douglasyxz (Reply 45):
The name Swiss is well established and strong - to me related to a new and modern airline. Going back to Swissair (means going back 11 years in history) wouldn't bring benefits but only satisfy sentimental memories. No problem when LX planes being called Swissair, let ATCs have their fun.

Exaclty.

Maybe Im more aware of the Swiss brand then most but then again that would not be too hard seeing as two weeks ago I did my 106th flight on Swiss  
 
bohica
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RE: Will Swiss (LX) Ever Become Swissair?

Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:42 am

Old habits are hard to break. I still call it Swissair.

BTW SWISS actually stands for:

So
What
It's
Still
Swissair