flyingturtle
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What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:14 pm

Hello dear a.nutters,


another thread, the one about the DC-10 crash near Paris 29 years ago, induced me to read the book "Destination Disaster".

3-3-74...Paris Crash In The Forest (by CairnterriAIR Mar 3 2013 in Civil Aviation)

There, they frequently talk about the "airbus" - seemingly any aircraft between a 707 or 737 on one end, and the 747 on the other end. This leaves the DC-10 and L-1011 and perhaps the 767 in between.

I understand the analogy to a "bus with wings", but why weren't the DC-9s and 737 called "airbuses" if they carried passengers relatively short distances?

When did the term "airbus" emerge? Was that long before Airbus began to develop its A300?


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
chieft
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:24 pm

"Airbus" was a non-proprietary term used by the airline industry in the 1960s and referred then to a commercial aircraft of a certain size and range,
Aircraft are marginal costs with wings.
 
Viscount724
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:34 pm

Quoting chieft (Reply 1):
"Airbus" was a non-proprietary term used by the airline industry in the 1960s and referred then to a commercial aircraft of a certain size and range,

Canadian regional carrier Pacific Western Alrines used the Airbus brand for many years for their shuttle service between YYC and Edmonton's city center YXD airport (the original airport until YEG opened in the late 1950s). Ironically, for most of the route's history the PWA Airbus service used the 737-200. At the peak there were around 17 daily 732s in each direction. It was very common to hear people say, "I'm taking the Airbus".

[Edited 2013-03-06 14:37:13]

[Edited 2013-03-06 14:38:31]
 
PanHAM
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:45 am

Lufthansa inaugurated a shuttle service similar to what EA offered between HAM and FRA in 1963 and called it "Airbus"
Amazingly partly with Super Constellations. This service terminated in 1970


The story of "Airbus Industrie" and the formation of "Deutsche Airbius" in 1965 which lead to the success story of the Franco-Allemand company can be checked oin wikipedia.
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aquariusHKG
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:14 am

747 Super Airbus....Que?! (by travelavnut Nov 16 2011 in Civil Aviation)


The Airbus name seems to be a pretty generic terms back then to refer to shuttle service planes
 
Pihero
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:44 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 3):
the formation of "Deutsche Airbius" in 1965

I think that's a shortcut, 1965 was the year in which the Germans created the "Arbeitgemenshaft Airbus", basically a study groupin which, among others Hartmut Klein was a member.
This group became "Deutsche Airbus" on Sept 4, 1967, and became the structure around which the GIE "Airbus" was founded on Dec 18, 1970... and the name became property of that entity, now "Airbus Industries".
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PanHAM
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:08 pm

That's right, Pihero, I said that the full story can be read in wikipedia.
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Pihero
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:44 pm

Source is the book by Pierre Spraco : "Airbus, the True Story "
Very good reading.

Cheers
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flyingturtle
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:39 pm

I don't know if you understand me right... my question is all about the term "airbus". How did that expression arise? To which aircraft was it applied to?

The book "Destination Disaster" is the first place where I read "airbus" in a non-Airbus context.

Today it seems funny why a company is named "Airbus" - you wouldn't want to evoke a Greyhound-like feeling. But then, long-distance bus travel was never really popular in Europe anyway...


David
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Pihero
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:10 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 8):
I don't know if you understand me right... my question is all about the term "airbus".

As Viscount724 wrote, it is very probably Pacific Western whjich launched the term, before LH.
The "Airbus" flights were originally on one 66 seat DC-4 between Calgary and Edmonton. The passengers carried their own luggage and there was in the DC-4 a "checking clerk" who collected the fares !
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Polot
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Thu Mar 07, 2013 5:12 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 8):
How did that expression arise? To which aircraft was it applied to?

Simple:

Bus = well known mode of mass transportation where service frequently occurs at a relatively high frequency.
Air = flying

Hence together they were marketed as airbus.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 8):

Today it seems funny why a company is named "Airbus" - you wouldn't want to evoke a Greyhound-like feeling. But then, long-distance bus travel was never really popular in Europe anyway...

The term airbus wasn't used to evoke luxury or anything. Airlines used it to showcase flying a specific route multiple times daily giving a lot of seats available for passengers.

Remember Airbus was formed to create a 300 passenger short range plane (hence why the A300 is called the A300- they decreased its size slightly during development). It wasn't meant to be glamorous or anything, just a plane to shuttle people around various cities like a bus.
 
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neutrino
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Thu Mar 07, 2013 6:51 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 8):
Today it seems funny why a company is named "Airbus"


One Upmanship, alphabetically speaking?
Just guessing of course.
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Pihero
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:02 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 10):
Hence together they were marketed as airbus.

and not disconting the fact that the name was understood in three of the original languages
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flyingturtle
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:47 pm

Then I'll read more, making the answers of Viscount724, PanHAM and Pihero a starting point.  
Quoting neutrino (Reply 11):
One Upmanship, alphabetically speaking?
Just guessing of course.

Heheh, reminds me of the statistical software I'm using: R.

It was modeled upon the commercial S suite.

Quoting Polot (Reply 10):
Remember Airbus was formed to create a 300 passenger short range plane... wasn't meant to be glamorous or anything, just a plane to shuttle people around various cities like a bus.

So it wasn't Ryanair that invented this concept?      


David
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prebennorholm
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:40 am

Quoting Polot (Reply 10):
Remember Airbus was formed to create a 300 passenger short range plane (hence why the A300 is called the A300

Exactly.

Quoting Polot (Reply 10):
...they decreased its size slightly during development.

Yes. And instead of renaming it into A250, they renamed it A300B.

The reason for the downsizing was cancellation of the engine, which should have been RR RB-207. In order to get the plane in the air they had to pick an off the shelf engine, which became the somewhat smaller and less powerful GE CF6.

Incidentally the original A300 (non-B) project was rather similar in appearance and capacity to the present day A330, but only for short range.

In those days a twin couldn't fly long range. A long range variant (internally named TA-11) was only sketches on the drawing board, and was hoped to fly one day with four P&W geared turbofans - also cancelled. Twenty years later it emerged as the A340.
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Ldriver
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:02 am

The term "airbus" was used frequently in the 70s to refer to the DC-10 and L-1011. That's how I first remember hearing it.

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 8):
Today it seems funny why a company is named "Airbus" - you wouldn't want to evoke a Greyhound-like feeling. ...

Nowadays that would be considered clever marketing - to evoke the image of the intra-city Greyhound or Peter Pan, with its roomier seats and greater recline than today's coach cabins.
 
aviateur
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:18 am

In his outstanding book about Kennedy Airport (it's called "The Airport," and it's the single best book about commercial flying that I've ever read), author James Kaplan describes the Airbus name as, "a capitulation to the inevitable."

I've always loved that line.


PS
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
 
maxpower1954
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:06 am

As stated, in the early 1970s the DC-10 and L-1011 were often referred to as "Airbus". I have a Revell DC-10 plastic model kit with Delta decals. On the box top it's called a "DC-10 Airbus"

http://www.scalemates.com/products/product.php?id=144715

[Edited 2013-03-07 19:09:42]

[Edited 2013-03-07 19:10:12]
 
flyingturtle
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:25 am

Quoting aviateur (Reply 16):

Hmm... which one do you mean? I s'pose it's the latter...


The airport : terminal nights and runway days at John F. Kennedy International
by James Kaplan

Publisher: New York : W. Morrow, ©1994.


The airport : planes, people, triumphs, and disasters at John F. Kennedy International
by James Kaplan

Publisher: New York : W. Morrow, [1996]

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 14):

Thank you!  


David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.
 
n729pa
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:34 pm

I wonder where Laker got "Skytrain" from? .....being late and overcrowded?
 
aviateur
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:27 am

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 18):
Hmm... which one do you mean? I s'pose it's the latter...


The airport : terminal nights and runway days at John F. Kennedy International
by James Kaplan

Publisher: New York : W. Morrow, ©1994.


The airport : planes, people, triumphs, and disasters at John F. Kennedy International
by James Kaplan

Publisher: New York : W. Morrow, [1996]

It's the same book. Either way, it's out of print, but worth tracking down. I * love * that book, and anybody else will too. Kaplan is not an aviation insider, he's a professional writer, which is probably why his book is better than so many others (including my own, though Kaplan himself was kind enough to contribute a blurb) when it comes to describing this weird business.

His depiction of the crash of Eastern flight 66 at JFK in 1975 is the most eloquent and gripping description of an air disaster I've ever read.


PS
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
 
flyingturtle
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RE: What Is The Origin Of The Name "Airbus"?

Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:25 pm

Quoting aviateur (Reply 20):
It's the same book. Either way, it's out of print, but worth tracking down.

Available at the Bavarian State Library, Munich.

I'll have to order it via Amazon...  


But.. thank you anyway  

David
Keeping calm is terrorism against those who want to live in fear.