indcwby
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AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:26 pm

http://www.chron.com/news/article/2-...taxiway-at-NYC-airport-4341533.php

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/n...0309/planes-collide-at-jfk-airport

Looks like AI bumped a B6 jet near a gate. I wonder who will get the blame on this.

*Didn't find this topic anywhere else.........

[Edited 2013-03-09 07:29:56]

[Edited 2013-03-09 07:30:31]
 
rfields5421
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:11 pm

JFK is pretty tight at any time, and when an aircraft is partially pushed back, as the first article seems to indicate - but I could be wrong - the clearances are reduced.

Air India apparently flies a B777 into KJFK and there is not way for pilots to see the wing tips while taxiing.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:18 pm

New rumor....AI and B6 are trying to merge!
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
ltbewr
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:22 pm

I think someone did a post earlier, but as it didn't have a link to a media source, per house rules, it was deleted by the mods.

From some pictures on the news here in NYC, the rudder was damaged on the JB plane. I believe it was a/c N630JB, an A320, Flight # 145 to West Palm Beach. All I know of the AI a/c is that it had just arrived from New Delhi. The wingtip of the AI a/c was slightly damaged. I suspect this is easily fixed although it may take a few days to repair. The JB pax (about 150) were transferred to another a/c.

There is a debate as to if the JB was still parked at the gate or pushing back. As to the AI pilots, I have to wonder if having just completed a long flight (or shift of it) and just before dawn, they just made a misjudgment due to time difference and other fatigue. Especially with JFK a tight fit for all ops there, all it takes is literally less than a meter or a second for 2 a/c to clip each other as we have seen several times in the last year.
 
aeroblogger
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:44 pm

The Air India aircraft involved is VT-ALK, "Chattisgarh"
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Gr8Circle
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:01 pm

The Globalpost link above shows a plane that is neither B6 nor AI......looks like a 787 to me, with a Star Alliance logo on it....any guesses?
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:03 pm

Quoting indcwby (Thread starter):
I wonder who will get the blame on this.

Isn't this so similar to the AF A380 incident at JFK last year? Who ultimately got balmed for that incident...? Don't recall....
 
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Moose135
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:14 pm

Local TV news report, including video of the damage...

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?se...ion=news/local/new_york&id=9021454

[Edited 2013-03-09 09:32:23]
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B6JFKH81
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:19 pm

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 6):
Isn't this so similar to the AF A380 incident at JFK last year?

Hardly, considering the AF A380 was on a taxiway, and the DL CRJ was entering a ramp and had its tail sticking out of the ramp a bit waiting to pull into its parking spot. If the B6 plane was at the gate (as reported by one of the links above) or encountered a problem while pushing back from the gate (as it states in the other link....which makes it sound like the shear pins on the towbar may have snapped during the pushback), that means that the incident was completely on the ramp as the AI flight would be on the T4 ramp, most likely in the alley between T4 and T5. I'm not at work today so I don't know any details yet (although I wouldn't be able to release any anyway LOL), but it is not really the same thing operationally. The similarity would be a big plane with a big wing clipped the tail of a smaller plane....isn't the first time it has happened to us at JFK, won't be the last  
Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
I believe it was a/c N630JB

I think it was 603

[Edited 2013-03-09 09:25:26]
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
 
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Moose135
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:32 pm

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 8):
I think it was 603

Yes, per the ABC News video.
KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
 
rwy04lga
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:36 pm

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 5):
The Globalpost link above shows a plane that is neither B6 nor AI......looks like a 787 to me, with a Star Alliance logo on it....any guesses?

Looks like accuracy in media reporting got banged up a bit, too.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
aeroblogger
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:17 pm

Wing damage:

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theaviator380
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:30 pm

Thanks Aeroblogger

How long is the delay any idea ?
 
aeroblogger
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:52 pm

No, I haven't heard anything about the delay. AI102 is listed in 1A as 4 hours late...
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kc135topboom
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:33 pm

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 6):
Isn't this so similar to the AF A380 incident at JFK last year? Who ultimately got balmed for that incident...?

AF was blamed, IIRC.

Quoting indcwby (Thread starter):
Looks like AI bumped a B6 jet near a gate. I wonder who will get the blame on this.

AI will blame Boeing and demand more compensation for the B-787 problems.

        
 
BN747DFWHNL
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:56 am

Quoting moose135 (Reply 7):
Local TV news report, including video of the damage...

Illustrating the "accuracy" of local TV news reporting, the anchorman,
setting up the story for his reporter, dramatically relays that two planes
collided on the runway. Should we be surprised? No.
 
AT
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:13 am

not to mention the same anchor says that part of the "horizontal stabilizer" was damaged, as pictures show the vertical stab/rudder.

I'm curious how this could have happened though, given that there is lots of tarmac space between Terminal 4 and the JetBlue terminal at JFK.
 
JOYA380B747
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:25 am

All News reports have vague descriptions based on biased data from spokespersons of either airlines. So I guess no one will know who's actually to blame. Maybe AI veered off from the taxi lines, maybe B6 was pushing back. But can't the ATC confirm wether an aircraft was pushing back or not or are they also bribed?
If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
 
spacecadet
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:36 am

Who pays for repairs (and any lost revenue) when this happens? I assume it's paid by insurance, but who's insurance? Is it just like a car fender bender and the at-fault airline's liability insurance pays for the whole thing?

Do the at-fault airline's premiums then go up?
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flyinryan99
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:18 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 18):
Who pays for repairs (and any lost revenue) when this happens? I assume it's paid by insurance, but who's insurance? Is it just like a car fender bender and the at-fault airline's liability insurance pays for the whole thing?

Do the at-fault airline's premiums then go up?

Typically you'll see a $500k or $1M hull deductible. Looking at these pictures, doesn't look like it will pierce that deductible. In the case of the AF/OH incident, that was a couple million and the insurer for OH paid for the claim and subrogated against the AF insurance carrier. In this case, I'm sure jetBlue can (and will) bill AI for their damage and it should be paid out of the liability portion of the policy (usually no deductibles apply).

With aviation insurance, there generally is no loss of revenue clause so the airlines would be sol, unless they have business interruption coverage elsewhere for commercial operations.

Some of us can only hope the premiums will go up...but most likely little, if any.
 
BLRAviation
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:19 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
I believe it was a/c N630JB, an A320, Flight # 145 to West Palm Beach.

As per the video it is N603JB.
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rfields5421
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:34 am

Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 17):
But can't the ATC confirm wether an aircraft was pushing back or not or are they also bribed?

There are many areas on large airports where the tower ATC cannot see the aircraft while they are moving. They cannot see clearances between aircraft on many areas of the airport.

In the US we have what are called non-movement areas. Which is really a poor name - it is an area where movement of aircraft is controlled by the airline or the individual pilots, not the tower / ATC.

The area between Terminals 4 and 5 where this likely occurred is an area under control of the ramp coordinators, not the ATC.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:46 am

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 5):
The Globalpost link above shows a plane that is neither B6 nor AI......looks like a 787 to me, with a Star Alliance logo on it....any guesses?

Looks like an international ANA 787
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comorin
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:52 am

Aeroblogger, was this the all-woman crew on AI in honor of International Women's Day?
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:40 am

Wingtip can be replaced fast with not much delay ...Aldo it can be deffered too.

Was the JetBlue Aircraft not parked properly OR was AI not on the line.....
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dtw2hyd
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:02 pm

Quoting comorin (Reply 23):
was this the all-woman crew on AI in honor of International Women's Day?

Quite possible, In general AI has all women crew on International Women's Day. If I recall correctly AI even had a all women crew on a 787 route between DEL-FRA.
 
aeroblogger
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:09 pm

Quoting comorin (Reply 23):
Aeroblogger, was this the all-woman crew on AI in honor of International Women's Day?

If it was, media relations sure won't be publicizing it 

Imagine the headlines: "Women Pilots Crash Air India Jet," or "Forget Cars, Women Can't Drive Airplanes Either"

The pilots union has not released a statement yet either, which is strange. Maybe, it's because it's the weekend?
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dtw2hyd
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:32 pm

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 26):

All women crew news is all over Indian media. It appears all women crew were on BOM-EWR not to JFK.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-F...s-on-Thursday/Article1-822319.aspx
 
mmedford
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:36 pm

Saw the B6 aircraft yesterday; doesn't look to bad. New rudder and some repairs to the vertical stab; she'll be back to normal.
ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
 
aeroblogger
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RE: AI And B6 Jets Bump At JFK

Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:55 pm

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 27):
All women crew news is all over Indian media. It appears all women crew were on BOM-EWR not to JFK.

And they did it on 07MAR, not 09MAR for some reason. Strange.

Regardless, all women crews cockpit crews aren't uncommon at AI, even when there is no publicity stunt going on.
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