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Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:17 am

The news from Bloomberg today:

Delta Said to Study Order for $4.3 Billion in Wide-Bodies

Quote:
Delta Air Lines Inc. (DAL) is considering buying as many as 20 wide-body jets from Airbus SAS or Boeing Co. (BA) with a list value of at least $4.3 billion, people familiar with the matter said.

The order under study is for 10 to 20 Airbus A330s or Boeing 777s, said the people, who declined to be identified because the negotiations are private. Deliveries would start within a few years, one person said. Delta already has both plane types in its fleet.

Surprising that DL would go for new, but I guess the used market isn't exactly flush with used A330s or 777s at the moment.

[Edited 2013-03-20 19:20:05]
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:23 am

I expect it would be another 77L order, or possibly even the 77W. DL is using its bargaining power to get a better deal from Boeing, as they did with the 739ER order.
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:27 am

I think DL is studying the 777-8X. It is perfect to replace the 747 and also perfect for growth on trunk routes, allowing other 777s to be used for expansion.

I would say they are looking at the 77W, but with the new 777X's more than likely coming on line in the near future, and DL just having invested in a new interior on the 747s, the newer generation seems more likely IMO.
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:32 am

Perfect number to replace the 16 744's.
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:32 am

would they be for expansion? Less than a handful of the existing 777s are more than 4 years old (and only 13 years at the most). The A330s are barely 10 years old at the most. So replacement doesn't seem likely. Seem too big of a replacement for the 767 and those have just been through a cabin refurb. Interesting. Anderson using his usual smarts to get a great deal on a product that's in the A&B line to be replaced? I noticed the article also mentioned a possible narrow body order of existing generation A320/737.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:34 am

Quoting nutsaboutplanes (Reply 3):
Perfect number to replace the 16 744's.

Didn't they just finish the cabin mods on those?

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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:36 am

My guess would be A332s to replace the oldest group of 763ERs. Alternative guess would be 77Ws to replace the 744s.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:39 am

My guess would be 747-8's to replace the 747-400's...  Wow!
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:45 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 6):
My guess would be A332s to replace the oldest group of 763ERs. Alternative guess would be 77Ws to replace the 744s.

The biggest hint is in this sentence, "Purchasing the jets would bridge Delta’s wide-body needs until the end of the decade … "

If this order will be to cover expected retirements, I'd give the A330 the nod as it's a lighter jet, and there's nothing on the horizon to be retired in the 747/777 fleets by the end of the decade that I'm aware of.

If this order will be for expansion, I'd expect the order to go to the 777.

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 7):
My guess would be 747-8's

Provocative!  
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:09 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):
expect it would be another 77L order, or possibly even the 77W

If DL is looking at current generation 777s, why would they order the 77L over the 77W? They certainly have enough 77Ls for their longest routes already, so no need for more long range birds. They need capacity over range.
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:16 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
Provocative!

right on my friend!
  
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:20 am

Reading the article in states:

The order is for either A330 or 777.
This not for A350, 787, 777-X, 748, or any other "paper" aircraft, this is for current generation aircraft.

The question is what exact frames/capacity is this intended to replace?

The 744 fleet only has so many years left, however with the recent cabin upgrades, they are still expecting to get 5-7 years out the fleet. Some of the older frames may go toward the earlier part of that timeframe instead of the end.
However, if this was about replacing 744 capacity, many of the current 744 routes cannot be replaced on a range or capacity basis with the A330. DTW-NRT, ATL-NRT, JFK-NRT, DTW-NGO cannot be reliably be flown with an A330. So why even consider the A330 if this was about replacing 744 capacity?

763ERs, some of the older frames will be approaching the end of their usable life within the next few years. Plus you have the domestic 763s that in theory are going to be replaced by on their routes by 753s. It is possible this order will be to backfill any retirements of 763ERs and domestic 763s, and it may be possible to see some 763ERs pushed down into some domestic flying. Are they doing mods on all of the 763s?

The 777 and A330 are different airplanes with different route profiles. Look back to the early 2000s when NW decided to go with the A330 versus the 777 as to some of the factors to consider. The 777 is likely too much airplane for most of DL's TATL flights, when an A330 is perfectly sufficient on a range & capacity basis. However, they could go 77W which then bridges the gap and becomes more of a 744 replacement. They could split the order. DL by all accounts is very happy with the A330 and could easily use more A332s & A333s. Do they really need more 77E or 77L? Seems like they would be more likely to go 77W if they go with anymore 777s.

[Edited 2013-03-20 20:21:00]

[Edited 2013-03-20 20:22:18]
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:33 am

I'm betting that this order is not for replacement. Their entire WB fleet is going thru interior mods and that means they will keep these planes 7-10 years minimum. They also don't need medium range capacity since they have over 110 767-300er,767-400er,A330-200/300 aircraft in their fleet. So we can rule out the A330. They are short on long range capacity with only 16 747-400 and 18 777-200er/lr. Compared to AA and UA that have over 70 777/747 and are better suited to add US-Asia flying. They will have to grow Asia in order to better compete with UA and that means start overlying NRT. My conclusion is 777-200lr/300er, 787-A350 is out of the question unless A or B can find some extremely early delivery slots. I think this order will be for growth, I can see LAX-BNE, MEL and maybe LAX-China plus JFK-HKG, PEK, PVG and maybe back to India BOM, DEL.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:43 am

Friendly reminder - DL already has the 787 on order - albeit , they pushed their delivery slots way back.

I don't think it has to be all 777 or 330, I can easily see a split 333/77W order or maybe some 332/77Ws. I think DL is finally going to join the 77W bandwagon though.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:55 am

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):
However, if this was about replacing 744 capacity, many of the current 744 routes cannot be replaced on a range or capacity basis with the A330. DTW-NRT, ATL-NRT, JFK-NRT, DTW-NGO cannot be reliably be flown with an A330. So why even consider the A330 if this was about replacing 744 capacity?

DLs A330s carry more pax than their 777s. It would have to be a range criteria, and not a pax #, if you are correct.

[Edited 2013-03-20 20:56:45]
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:57 am

I can't see Delta adding more wide body aircraft for use over the Atlantic. They seem to be cutting the point to point travel there. Assuming they are not "replacement" aircraft, I could see them using them for more "Narita" overflights from the US.
Depending on the envisioned loads and cargo the 777 might be required vs. the 330.

According to planespotters, American has 122 widebodies ... United has 159 (including 787)...and Delta has 160.

American 70 (767) 52 (777)
Delta 16 (747) 94 (767) 18 (777) 32 (330)
United 24 (747) 56 (767) 74 (777)

It seems like for the long range missions....777 and 747..Delta is lagging. Having said that, I'm sure they are using those 330's optimally on shorter flights.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:58 am

Quoting mplsjefe (Reply 14):

DLs A330's carry more pax than their 777s. It would have to be a range criteria, and not a pax # one, if you are correct.

Yes, primarily range.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:15 am

Quoting airtechy (Reply 15):
Depending on the envisioned loads and cargo the 777 might be required vs. the 330.

They could definitely use a 77W on GRU ....they have to keep up with AA in the Brazilian market.

ANd not to stir the pot more.....maybe they will order all 330s and open up a S. American routes from LAX and MIA.   
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:27 am

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 18):
not to stir the pot more.....maybe they will order all 330s and open up a S. American routes from LAX and MIA

With AA getting much stronger and bigger with the merger I doubt DL will ever be able to enter MIA.
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:29 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 19):
With AA getting much stronger and bigger with the merger I doubt DL will ever be able to enter MIA.


But there will be two years of distractions first. ample time for DL to experiment IMHO
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:30 am

I also believe this could go to the A330 for the replacement of older 763's.

I flew a non-retroffited B763 (after 4h delay because of a tech problem) from DTW to GRU last August...a disgrace in comparison to DL's excellent in-flight experience on the 772ER.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:36 am

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 20):
Quoting B747forever (Reply 19):
With AA getting much stronger and bigger with the merger I doubt DL will ever be able to enter MIA.


But there will be two years of distractions first. ample time for DL to experiment IMHO

That would assume DL entering MIA in a matter of weeks, which they will never do. Secondly, Delta would be foolish not to expect AA fighting this to death. I doubt that DL is ready or strong enough to loose millions at MIA. Instead they should focus on building up their current hubs, such as LAX while UA still is the mess it is and AA about to have their hands full with the merger. But AA letting go of MIA will never happen.
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:48 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
If this order will be to cover expected retirements, I'd give the A330 the nod as it's a lighter jet, and there's nothing on the horizon to be retired in the 747/777 fleets by the end of the decade that I'm aware of.
DL has been spending millions on interior mods on its 763ER fleet, and I really don't think DL is in any hurry to replace them. I predict this order will be for long-range expansion, thus giving the 777 the edge. The 77W is possible, however, DL will likely continue to operate the 744 even if the 77W is ordered.

[Edited 2013-03-20 21:50:30]
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:03 am

Quoting AF185 (Reply 21):
I also believe this could go to the A330 for the replacement of older 763's.

That would be my feeling too; the 763ERs seem to be most urgently in need of replacement, but on the other hand, there are around 90 that need to be replaced (some of these are not -ERs) and that's going to be a huge capital commitment. 10-15 seems like quite a low number to replace these.

How far out can the realistically stretch the 763s? Technically, I'm sure they can go on for a long while, but for pax appeal (given competitors' offerings), the timeframe is presumably a lot shorter?

My prediction would be 15 A330-300Es, with options on several more, and an agreement with Airbus to take these aircraft (and the other A330s) back in 2019-2020, to be replaced by A359s. Given the number of aircraft DL will need to replace, it does not seem realistic to expect that Boeing can/should replace all of them. Given the problems with the 787, I think it would be irresponsible for DL to put all/most of its eggs in that basket.

Let's look down the road a bit and make a few predictions:

777-300ER/779X - to replace 744
A350-900 - to replace 772ER/777LR/some A330s
787-9 - to replace 764/some A330s
787-8 - to replace 763

The A359 seems a bit big to replace the 763 and the A358 really isn't in the game anymore, so I am guessing that the 788 will be replacing most 763s.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:14 am

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 12):
My conclusion is 777-200lr/300er, 787-A350 is out of the question unless A or B can find some extremely early delivery slots. I think this order will be for growth, I can see LAX-BNE, MEL and maybe LAX-China plus JFK-HKG, PEK, PVG and maybe back to India BOM, DEL.

If you want to be more realistic, add SEA-ICN, SEA-HKG, and SEA-LHR and delete the others and you'll have the most likely new routes.
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:26 am

I've often wondered where American sends all those 777's. It's not Asia or Europe.....must be South America where they aren't required for range. The loads must be really high.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:47 am

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 25):

Yes but only one of those routes requires aircraft of 777 size and that is SEA-HKG, the rest can be done with 767/330 and can start tomorrow. We are talking about deliveries starting in two years and going for 2-3 years. I fully believe that by 2015-2017 time frame DL will need to launch some of those routes to stay competitive. Those routes may not work right now but I believe in 3-4 years time the traffic and economy will increase enough to warrant the flights. If they don't I fully expect that AA will. They will not win NYC unless they expand to China, India, Hong Kong and their competitors do, UA is already there in all those markets out of EWR.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:57 am

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 13):
I think DL is finally going to join the 77W bandwagon though.

Let's hope they don't join the 3-4-3 bandwagon!
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:18 am

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 12):
back to India BOM, DEL

Would DL fly this route from JFK or ATL? I know they tried it from ATL serveral years ago with a 77L. I would say ATL because it has more connecting feed and a sizable number of Indians live in Atlanta, and although more Indians live in the NYC area, it is already well-served by UA via EWR and AI via EWR and JFK.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:27 am

Quoting questions (Reply 28):

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 13):
I think DL is finally going to join the 77W bandwagon though.

Let's hope they don't join the 3-4-3 bandwagon!


Well that would assume passengers paying more for 3-3-3,which we all now they dont.
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:46 am

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):
Reading the article in states:

The order is for either A330 or 777.
This not for A350, 787, 777-X, 748, or any other "paper" aircraft, this is for current generation aircraft.


  
I wish everyone read the article before replying...

According to several reports, Delta is looking for 20 NBs as well. The original article only mentions NBs worth of USD 1 Bio.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...a-planeorder-idUSBRE92K03A20130321

"Potential orders involve about 20 each of the planemakers' most popular families of jets - the Airbus A320 or Boeing 737 in the medium-haul, narrow-body class and the Airbus A330 or Boeing 777 in the long-range, wide-body category, the people said."

[Edited 2013-03-21 00:50:22]
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:50 am

Quoting airtechy (Reply 26):
I've often wondered where American sends all those 777's. It's not Asia or Europe.....must be South America where they aren't required for range. The loads must be really high.

AA does use 777 on all of their Asian routes, and many of their LHR routes, along with EZE and GRU. The 77W is in service to Brazil, just starting JFK-LHR and this fall LAX-LHR. (They only have received four of them so far, so just wait for the fleet to build.) As the 77W fleet builds, expect some of the 772ERs to start replacing the 763 on more volume Euro and South American routes. As the AA 772s are reconfigured and upgraded to full-flat Business, DL will need to match their product to compete, so I see them going with the 77W too.
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:01 am

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 7):
My guess would be 747-8's to replace the 747-400's...

Very nice suggestion, I hope it comes true. It would be sad to not have one American carrier flying the 747 any longer.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
The biggest hint is in this sentence, "Purchasing the jets would bridge Delta’s wide-body needs until the end of the decade … "

If this order will be to cover expected retirements, I'd give the A330 the nod as it's a lighter jet, and there's nothing on the horizon to be retired in the 747/777 fleets by the end of the decade that I'm aware of.

If this order will be for expansion, I'd expect the order to go to the 777

If indeed they are trying to bridge a gap between now and 2020, and no 744's or 777's are scheduled before 2020, then my assumption is that DL wants a direct 767 replacement, therefore I'd expect A330's, even though I think DL is ripe for the 77W.

Quoting jetjack74 (Reply 25):

If you want to be more realistic, add SEA-ICN, SEA-HKG, and SEA-LHR and delete the others and you'll have the most likely new routes.

I think you are right, if International expansion is indeed the reason for some new widebodies, then I'd expect DL will start building up their Seattle hub. I know they have SEA-ICN with Skyteam on KE, If DL does send it's own metal it will likely be a 767 or 330, at least at first, that is hard to compete with those carriers flying larger 777 or 747 aircraft.

The same idea for SEA-LHR unless DL wants to operate a 777, BA will always have the upper hand on the route with a 744, twice daily during the summer. But DL would likely start with a 763 or 330 for LHR, and once again how well does DL stack up vs BA on this route? I think this was in part the issue with the first attempt SEA-LHR, the other being the flight times.

With SEA-HKG, I think DL would start with a 77L or 744, just due to the flight distance, but also the cargo possibilities.
Since there is no direct competition on this route, it could be a winner, however it has been flown by United on DC-10-30's and again by NW on 747's in the past, and it's still vacant, I think there must be a reason why.

It's my understanding that these new aircraft would help bridge a gap of retiring 767's and new aircraft delivery next decade.
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:12 am

Over the next 5-10 years, Delta biggest international need is to continue building a Pacific network that isn't centered on NRT. I'd think that would provide some clues.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:25 am

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 32):

FYI, all of DL's 777s, 764s and 747s already have full flat business. Delta is also in the process of converting the rest of their 763 ERs to full flat. I think an announcement was also made about the A330s to also get full flat, but I am not positive. AA is the carrier playing catch-up in the biz class hard product.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:19 am

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 18):
They could definitely use a 77W on GRU ....they have to keep up with AA in the Brazilian market.

ANd not to stir the pot more.....maybe they will order all 330s and open up a S. American routes from LAX and MIA.
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 18):
But there will be two years of distractions first. ample time for DL to experiment IMHO

That would be valid if DL gets all the new aircraft right now, but as the article states, "deliveries would start within a few years", so we have to assume that when they start taking delivery of these new aircraft, AA/US will be fully integrated (and hopefully expanding).
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:25 am

With Delta's Asian routes 777 would be better then A330's. The A330 are good for the Atlantic and deep Latin America, with the 767ER fleet DL has more then enough planes to cover that, but not for Asia if DL future is to over fly Japan. Detroit to beyond Japan needs a 777.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:48 am

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 29):
Would DL fly this route from JFK or ATL?

I think they will try this out of JFK, if nothing else then just because of shorter stage length then flying this route out of ATL. JFK is linked with all the major US population centers that have large O&D traffic flows to and from India. I'm sticking to my belief that these aircraft will be for expansion and that expansion will be directed towards Asia and that's why this order will be 777-200LR/300ER. The 773ER should be a perfect aircraft for JFK-BOM, DEL. Part of the reason why the last attempt failed was that 772LR is the wrong plane for the route CASM wise. India is long stage lengths and low yields. So a 773ER with the same business section as the DL 772LR and large economy class is the way to go on these routes, that should bring the CASM down and possibly make this flight profitable. If DL sticks to 9 abreast in Y i believe we can expect the 773ER to have about the same amount of seats as a Air Canada 773ER with around 350 seats, that would be about 80 seats more then DL 772LR with roughly the same trip costs, perfect aircraft for low yield large volume destinations.
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:09 pm

Maybe they could dust off some of the L1011s in the desert and refurb those...... 
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:36 pm

As they already operate 333 and 777 a small top up order for each seems likely.

Anyone know if they have paid for options on either and if so how many?
 
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:38 pm

In my humble opinion, this is a 777 order and not a 330 order... Time will tell but DL has had option to buy 320 family for narrow body and went 737... I believe this will be the same... They wil go 777 with the intention that some of these replacing some 330s later on... They will more than likely take up the 787 to replace their 767, eventually when DL feels the 767 is ready to go..
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:40 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 40):
Anyone know if they have paid for options on either and if so how many?

They have both near-term 777 options (enough to make a difference) and 737 options. I think the first fact probably comes into play here.
 
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coronado
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:27 pm

Could they be looking toward the JV with Virgin and roll out a common transatlantic 330 fleet offering?
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goldenstate
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:30 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 34):
Over the next 5-10 years, Delta biggest international need is to continue building a Pacific network that isn't centered on NRT. I'd think that would provide some clues.

   Agreed. I would add this: if you think about what that network looks like, there is probably a sweet spot in terms of exactly how much lift/range is needed. Which is to say, there is such a thing as more than necessary.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 42):
They have both near-term 777 options (enough to make a difference) and 737 options. I think the first fact probably comes into play here.

Agreed here as well, although engines could be an issue. Incumbency with multiple OEMs is certainly the best way to determine which one is better.

Certainly will be interesting to see what the outcome is.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:32 pm

Best part of a.net is speculating on aircraft orders, IMHO.

DL has said they intend to keep the 747-400 through the later part of this decade. I bet that Boeing would make them a great deal to keep the 747-8i line running with relatively fast delivery dates. Also, Airbus would sell their corporate kidney to get the A380 on the property of a U.S. Carrier. I tend to go with those who see these as primarily growth frames--they will probably retire some of the older 767-300ER's. Pacific capacity is critical, particularly to China and our Asian customers are very sensitive to state-of-the-art aircraft with all the bells and whistles. They might go with a few 77W's but I don't see them adding more 77L's to the fleet. DL definitely wants more growth from JFK and LAX.

One thing I don't think I have seen mentioned is freight capacity, always a profitable area. For years I heard "if the freight holds are full, the flight is paid for. The passengers are pure profit at that point." With current fuel prices I am not so sure that is true anymore.

I could see DL "cherry-picking" a few South American cities but I don't think they want to get in a battle with AA. The opening of additional Brazilian slots might have some interest in the DL boardroom.
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AeroWesty
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:38 pm

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 44):
there is probably a sweet spot in terms of exactly how much lift/range is needed. Which is to say, there is such a thing as more than necessary.

If DL bought the 77W, they'd be able to right-size virtually any international market going into the 2020s with a long haul fleet consisting of:

752 - 763 - 764 - A332 - A333 - 77E - 77L - 77W - 744

Something of almost everything (except A340 & A380) to hit any sweet spot.
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bkflyguy
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:50 pm

I fully expect Delta to announce an international expansion out of JFK once the new T4 comes on line this summer. Especially JFK to Asia flights. They likely need those to win corporate contracts in NYC. I would also expect a slight increase in JFK to South America flights. Not a massive expansion but a few destinations and maybe more frequencies. They have more than enough 767ERs to fly Europe pt2pt if and when the European economy recovers. I also think there will be a modest expansion out of LAX and SEA. Depending on the routes, maybe a split order between A333 and 777? Will be fun to see.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:17 pm

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 7):
My guess would be 747-8's to replace the 747-400's...

I've just converted to a DL diehard...as far-fetched as it seems, some of the longer 744 routes would be perfect for the 747-8i, and in my opinion, the 8i would look fabulous with a widget on it!

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
If this order will be to cover expected retirements, I'd give the A330 the nod as it's a lighter jet, and there's nothing on the horizon to be retired in the 747/777 fleets by the end of the decade that I'm aware of.

If this order will be for expansion, I'd expect the order to go to the 777.

I would tend to agree with this, but that being said, Im crossing my fingers for more 330's.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):
763ERs, some of the older frames will be approaching the end of their usable life within the next few years. Plus you have the domestic 763s that in theory are going to be replaced by on their routes by 753s. It is possible this order will be to backfill any retirements of 763ERs and domestic 763s, and it may be possible to see some 763ERs pushed down into some domestic flying. Are they doing mods on all of the 763s?

Wasnt DL one of the earliest 763ER customers?

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 11):
The 777 and A330 are different airplanes with different route profiles. Look back to the early 2000s when NW decided to go with the A330 versus the 777 as to some of the factors to consider. The 777 is likely too much airplane for most of DL's TATL flights, when an A330 is perfectly sufficient on a range & capacity basis. However, they could go 77W which then bridges the gap and becomes more of a 744 replacement. They could split the order. DL by all accounts is very happy with the A330 and could easily use more A332s & A333s. Do they really need more 77E or 77L? Seems like they would be more likely to go 77W if they go with anymore 777s.

Heck they may split it up to the point where they pick 332's, 333's, and a mix of 777's.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 18):
They could definitely use a 77W on GRU ....they have to keep up with AA in the Brazilian market.

They just announced they are upgauging all 763 flights to Brazil to a 744. Im not sure on the time frame though...
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L1011TGU
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:31 pm

Quoting rbgso (Reply 39):
Quoting rbgso (Reply 39):
Maybe they could dust off some of the L1011s in the desert and refurb those...... 

I would have to be in favor of this proposition...
 
AngMoh
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RE: Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order

Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:01 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 41):
In my humble opinion, this is a 777 order and not a 330 order... Time will tell but DL has had option to buy 320 family for narrow body and went 737... I believe this will be the same... They wil go 777 with the intention that some of these replacing some 330s later on... They will more than likely take up the 787 to replace their 767, eventually when DL feels the 767 is ready to go..

It depends what market it is for, but an A330 order will fit the Delta pattern of choosing a relatively efficient plane towards its end of production at a low capital outlay.

DL has clearly mentioned in the past that their business model is based on low CAPEX.

Of course, if the new fleet needs to cross the pacific, only the 77W will work....
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