kiffy
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Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:27 am

Apparently a man was caught impersonating an AF pilot in the cockpit of a US Airways flight to PBI:

Pilot Impersonator Link

How could this happen; why would an “Air France pilot” fly to PBI in the jump seat on US? And is this the beginning of the end of cockpit visits in the US?
     
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:30 am

Sounds like what Frank Abagnale did in the seventies...
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b727fa
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:51 am

Ummmm, really? Since when has ANY non-US non-CASS pilot been allowed into a flight deck on a US airline? Something WAY more weird is going on. If he were on the FD (and seated) as the story reports, and the crew were already suspicious, why did they let him stay?????
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jetblueguy22
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:52 am

Man some people really are loony. How did he think he could get away with this? Luckily the captain caught on, who knows what he had in mind. Though I have to admit if I could grab the jump seat I would take it . But that would be just to watch!
Pat
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AR385
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:27 am

The guy had a:

a) Valid AF ID (faked with his name, but the thing was authentic)
b) A valid AF uniform
c) An AF flight bag

The more serious question, I suppose, since he attempted to seat in F initially, not in the cockpit, is how he obtained the above. This, I suppose, is due to start some serious US-France joint investigation.

He also berated the gate agent, and I´m not clear about how he gained access to the aircraft after that, since he behaved pretty badly apparently. Or are gate agents so used to being berated by flight crews that they no longer think much about it? Funny how taking pics on board an aircraft while seated in the seat you paid for gets you kicked off the plane faster than being a psycho impersonating a flight crew member.

It´s a failure on a lot of levels, this situation. Definitely a nut-case, but an intelligent one at that.
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:44 am

Quoting kiffy (Thread starter):
And is this the beginning of the end of cockpit visits in the US?

Doubtful

Quoting AR385 (Reply 4):
The guy had a:

a) Valid AF ID (faked with his name, but the thing was authentic)
b) A valid AF uniform
c) An AF flight bag

None of that should have gotten him jumpseat priveleges anyway as a foreign carrier pilot is not in CASS and cannot jumpseat. The crew to me was a little laxed on procedures here. My airline the gate will present the signed paperwork to the crew which will then give the final yes/no to allow a person to fly in the jumpseat. I cant imagine the procedures are much different at US Airways.
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Passedv1
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:14 am

Something doesn't seem right with this story (not that there has ever been errors in news reports). The report makes it seem like the Captain was perfectly content to let the nutjob stay in the seat and but for the vigilance of the gate-agent, they would have gone. I have a feeling the guy sat down and stowed his bag and the crew was in the process of trying to figure out what was going on. If he's going to try to sneak onto the jumpseat, he should at least impersonate an airline that would at least be allowed in the cockpit if his story were true. Even if his story were 100% true he wouldn't be allowed in the cockpit. Not a good plan.
 
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b727fa
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:29 am

Hell, at least try it on a SkyTeam airline...seriously. Not Star (as AF isn't Star). As I said before, non-CASS, no paperwork, the FD crew "allowing" a foreign pilot on the FD and then "watching" him struggle with the JS? But not being "concerned enough" to mention it until the ACS came down with final paper work? SOMETHING...a LOT of things aren't "meshing" in this report.
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Maverick623
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 6:14 am

Quoting kiffy (Thread starter):
And is this the beginning of the end of cockpit visits in the US?

On the ground? Nope. In-air visits were prohibited well before 9/11. Besides, this guy wasn't "visiting". He took a left when he should have taken a right.

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 6):
If he's going to try to sneak onto the jumpseat, he should at least impersonate an airline that would at least be allowed in the cockpit if his story were true.

Nobody said he was smart. Even still, the gate agent always knows when there's supposed to be a "jumper", and it wouldn't matter what uniform or ID card he had... there would be questions.

Quoting B727FA (Reply 7):
But not being "concerned enough" to mention it until the ACS came down with final paper work?

What else should they have done? It's not like the guy was threatening or trying to take over the aircraft.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:23 am

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 8):
What else should they have done? It's not like the guy was threatening or trying to take over the aircraft.

A man attempting to sit down in the flight deck without authorization is as threatening as needed.
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nws2002
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:34 am

Sound like the impersonator had a boarding pass for economy. When he arrived on the aircraft he likely told the crew he was listed to jumpseat and they assumed the gate agent would bring down the paperwork. This happens all the time as gate agents are in a rush to get the flight out and start boarding. The crew let him take a seat, but I doubt they would have actually closed the door and departed without getting the paperwork.
 
PHLapproach
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:55 am

Very likely what happened is he came down. Crew asked to his his ID and CASS verification form (standard protocol) after introductions to which of course he didn't have a CASS slip. Capt probably said "take a seat or just stand here for a second and I'm sure the agent will be bringing it down." And of course when the agent showed up to it close up.... everyone realized. Sometimes I or other coworkers will get crap from agents or crews saying "I don't really think you can jumpseat". What do you mean you don't think I can jumpseat?, look me up in CASS first and Captain, heres my paperwork. So people definitely make sure all bodes well. I don't think anyone in the industry takes jumpseating regulations and the necessary checks for granted.
 
Piedmont727
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:09 pm

i saw a news report on it aparentlly he had A fake air france badge and with his accent he convinced the co pilot after talking about flying air france 747s but the captain didnt belive him calling security
 
coairman
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:20 pm

I was thinking maybe he impersonated a pilot to get a free upgrade to first class. Some people are desperate to get a free upgrade.

I get a feeling he has gotten free upgrades before with his pilot impersonation. But this time it didn't work and he totally lost his mind. You can't fly in a pilot jump seat without CASS authorization. I don't think any US mainline legacy airline pilot would ever allow it it happen without CASS verification.

[Edited 2013-03-22 06:27:28]
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DashTrash
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:03 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 4):
He also berated the gate agent, and I´m not clear about how he gained access to the aircraft after that, since he behaved pretty badly apparently. Or are gate agents so used to being berated by flight crews that they no longer think much about it?

It's usually the other way around. 99 times out of a 100, if you're a prick to the gate agent, you aren't getting in the airplane. Most crews won't tolerate it either, especially to an offline pilot. If I find out you've treated a gate agent poorly when asking for my jumpseat, you're not getting it.

Quoting PHLapproach (Reply 11):
Crew asked to his his ID and CASS verification form (standard protocol) after introductions to which of course he didn't have a CASS slip.

I really don't want to get in to specifics about jumpseating, but will say you're close but not dead on with how it works.

Quoting coairman (Reply 13):
I was thinking maybe he impersonated a pilot to get a free upgrade to first class. Some people are desperate to get a free upgrade.

Sounds like that's what happened here. We only had a couple of foreign carriers on our reciprocal list and AF wasn't one of them (I was never a USAirways pilot, however. They likely have a different list).

Quoting coairman (Reply 13):
You can't fly in a pilot jump seat without CASS authorization. I don't think any US mainline legacy airline pilot would ever allow it it happen without CASS verification.

Bingo.
 
PI4EVER
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:06 pm

I arrived in PHL last night, and by the 10pm newscast this was typically "Breaking News." Fox29 in PHL did report the man was wearing an AF pilot's uniform, an AF badge and carrying an AF logo flight bag. At some point in the gate or once on board he apparently made a scene about not getting an upgrade to F and was offered the jumpseat. He apparently made it into the cockpit but it was not reported he actually sat on the jumpseat. Prior to pushback he was removed from the plane at the Captain's direction, was arrested and is in jail today. His mug shot was rough looking so on that alone would be reason to refuse this guy a ride. His family was televised arriving at the jail under escort and it is reported this morning that he has had previous encounters impersonating an airline pilot, and is being held under a large bail amount.
What was interesting about the Fox29 newscast last evening was typically in breathless drama the reporter (Chris Connell who should know better!) reported it was a USAirways Boeing 747 flight to Florida, while pictures of nothing but taxxing USE Dash 8's were shown from the airport.
I was disappointed they didn't show DC-9's in the 3 tone burgurdy scheme from 1988. Recently on FOX13 in Tampa, they televised pictures of airplanes on a story about growth at Tampa International and included pictures of a Delta Express 737-200, a Metrojet 737 and a CO MD80.
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Norcal773
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:23 pm

This reminds me of a fake LH A380 Captain on Twitter who has made a lot of people believe that he's an LH pilot to this day but is actually a con-artist from the UK who spent time in jail for impersonating a fake London cop.
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richierich
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:27 pm

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 1):
Sounds like what Frank Abagnale did in the seventies...
Quoting B727FA (Reply 7):
and then "watching" him struggle with the JS?

Let me guess, the US pilot asked what equipment he is on and if he was deadheading. After the bewildered look on the fake pilot's face, the police were called.
None shall pass!!!!
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:52 pm

Quoting DashTrash (Reply 14):
It's usually the other way around. 99 times out of a 100, if you're a prick to the gate agent, you aren't getting in the airplane

As an agent, I would have never let him past the boarding door. Especially if he was pass riding. And if he was on a pass, how did he obtain the pass in the first place? The whole thing fell through the cracks. A red flag should have been raised when he went off on the gate agent!

Quoting coairman (Reply 13):
You can't fly in a pilot jump seat without CASS authorization

Indeed. But if he was traveling on a full fare ticket, the agent would not have had to verify his ID in CASS.

Tomas SJC
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Confuscius
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting kiffy (Thread starter):
Apparently a man was caught impersonating an AF pilot in the cockpit

I'm assuming he never got the plane into "takeoff position".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgaahBvqj-8
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cubastar
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:05 pm

Quoting Braniff747SP (Reply 1):
Sounds like what Frank Abagnale did in the seventies...

Actually, Frank was a fairly charming individual; interesting to say the least. He "flew" with our crew (properly authorized, or so we thought at the time), on the Pan Am/Delta DC-8 interchange from BWIA to ATL back in the seventies. I was a First Officer then and he completely was able to come up with all of the proper paperwork and was even still in "his" Pan Am uniform, having just flown in on the DC-8 from London. No one in our crew had a clue that anything was amiss. He rode in the cockpit all the way to Atlanta and seemed quite knowledgeable with both the aircraft and procedures.
 
sankaps
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:38 pm

From NBC Philadelphia:"In a statement released to NBC News, Air France denies that Jernnard had a certified crew badge:

"This person was not wearing an Air France uniform, badge (Crew Member Certificate) or carrying an Air France crew baggage. Regarding the badge, it was a very poor fake badge, which in no way resembled the Air France Crew Member Certificate (CMC)." "
 
777STL
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:44 pm

Quoting Norcal773 (Reply 16):
This reminds me of a fake LH A380 Captain on Twitter who has made a lot of people believe that he's an LH pilot to this day but is actually a con-artist from the UK who spent time in jail for impersonating a fake London cop.

You don't even have to leave this website to find fake airline pilots.
PHX based
 
twincessna340a
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:22 pm

Quoting 777STL (Reply 22):
You don't even have to leave this website to find fake airline pilots.

     
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting cubastar (Reply 20):

Interesting--I've never heard from a pilot who flew with him on the airplane.
The 747 will always be the TRUE queen of the skies!
 
ThePinnacleKid
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RE: Pilot Impersonator On US Airways Flight…

Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:13 pm

Quoting PI4EVER (Reply 15):
He apparently made it into the cockpit but it was not reported he actually sat on the jumpseat.

Not sure as how they're blowing this up as an event that he was in the cockpit... even little kids make it to the cockpit, heck on the ground, anyone can make it into the cockpit.. we usually don't mind a little chit chat (better after the flight though)

That said, all jumpseaters will make it to the cockpit, if they intend to jumpseat (which doesn't mean just up in the cockpit)... you as the jumpseater must ask permission from the working crew/captain for the ride, just because the gate agent clears you doesn't mean you get on, it's the crews decision...In addition, you only get the cockpit when the back is full... and even then, as it has been said, it is required to have your CASS authorization...
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