L0VE2FLY
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San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:55 pm

On a recent "The World's Most Extreme Airports" show, I was surprised to see my hometown's airport, San Diego's Lindbergh field listed at #10. I know SAN is not your average airport for a major US city with its single, relatively short runway, proximity to downtown San Diego and high terrain in Point Loma, but to be ranked the 10th. most extreme airport in the world was something I didn't expect. So what do you think, is SAN really that challenging for pilots?
 
usctrojan18
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:28 pm

You basically answered your question why it is extreme. It is challenging for pilots because 27 doesn't have ILS. So yes, it is extreme
 
as739x
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:05 am

Many, if not all, airlines require additional training for SAN operations. Now granted this sometimes is nothing more then a short video, the airport is a little bit of a challenge. It's what makes Lindbergh so unique.

Quoting usctrojan18 (Reply 1):
It is challenging for pilots because 27 doesn't have ILS

I'd have to disagree with this. Commercial pilots have flown hundreds of visual approaches and a true pilot doesn't need a ILS. There is an RNAV approach anyhow that is virtually the same thing. The issue is the combinations of terrain, obstacles and the often forgotten marine layer that can cause mild haze.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
flyby519
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:11 am

Quoting usctrojan18 (Reply 1):
It is challenging for pilots because 27 doesn't have ILS. So yes, it is extreme

Any approach not preceded by vectors to final for an ILS qualifies as an emergency in my book  
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maxpower1954
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:27 am

I've flown 727s and A320s out of SAN for years (like 25) and have never understood what all the fuss was about. And neither do the fellow pilots at my airline.

LGA and DCA by any measure are more of a challenge on an everyday basis than SAN ever will be.
 
UA787DEN
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:31 am

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 4):
LGA and DCA by any measure are more of a challenge on an everyday basis than SAN ever will be.

I think it got such a high ranking for a few reasons.
1) The PSA 727 Crash
2) Its the 2nd busiest 1-runway airport in the world
3) They keep building new things around it. Flying lower than the parking garage is interesting.
4) It gets so much hype about how they need a replacement

It honestly isn't super challenging, but it gets so much attention its hard to miss.
 
pnwtraveler
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:48 am

We booked late for a convention in San Diego. That meant instead of getting a room at the Marriott or Westin we had to book into the Ramada. My room looked towards the Harbor and Navy Base. My boss and his wife were on the other side of the building and up one floor. I still laugh when my bosses wife said she could lie in bed and wave at the people in the planes going past the window. Well a slight exaggeration but not by much. The airport location is not much above sea level and below the level of the hotel. That is part of a reason the as well the airport is a challenge to land at.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:54 am

I flew PHX-SAN in about 2003 on HP. They announced as we were departing the gate at PHX that it would be the first flight commanded by a newly promoted captain. I could see that it worried a few of the pax around me. I would have forgotten the flight by now if not for the fact that it ended with my first ever go-around after we apparently came in a little high. I saw a few people hanging on really tight on the second approach. Anyway, I enjoy telling that story whenever the topic of SAN's challenges comes up.
 
Passedv1
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:43 am

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 4):

LGA and DCA by any measure are more of a challenge on an everyday basis than SAN ever will be.

+ one.

This is such an exageration. Top ten in California sure...in the world, I doubt it. SAN should be disqualified simply because it's in so-cal so no matter how bad the airport is, the weather never really gets THAT bad. SNA is worse in my book and we haven't even left the state yet. TVL, EGE, MSO, BTM, and just about any airport AS flies to in Alaska besides ANC and FAI.

Maybe top ten worst with wide-body service...then maybe.
 
trnswrld
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:52 am

Single straight runway located in sunny California. Yeah I'm gonna go ahead and say this airport being ranked anywhere remotely close to even 100 extreme airports is a bit of a stretch  
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:28 am

Quoting usctrojan18 (Reply 1):
You basically answered your question why it is extreme. It is challenging for pilots because 27 doesn't have ILS. So yes, it is extreme

My question is: How could SAN be considered the 10th. most extreme in the world?! Just a few ranks behind LUA, SXM, SBH & HKG (Kai Tak), so no I didn't answer my question!


Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 4):
LGA and DCA by any measure are more of a challenge on an everyday basis than SAN ever will be.

Why?


Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 5):
1) The PSA 727 Crash

Actually they did mention this crash.


Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 5):
2) Its the 2nd busiest 1-runway airport in the world

What's the busiest?


Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 6):
We booked late for a convention in San Diego. That meant instead of getting a room at the Marriott or Westin we had to book into the Ramada. My room looked towards the Harbor and Navy Base. My boss and his wife were on the other side of the building and up one floor. I still laugh when my bosses wife said she could lie in bed and wave at the people in the planes going past the window.

The Ramada must be a favorite for fellow a.netters visiting San Diego.


Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 8):
This is such an exageration. Top ten in California sure...in the world, I doubt it. SAN should be disqualified simply because it's in so-cal so no matter how bad the airport is, the weather never really gets THAT bad. SNA is worse in my book and we haven't even left the state yet. TVL, EGE, MSO, BTM, and just about any airport AS flies to in Alaska besides ANC and FAI.

   EGE was on the list too.
 
AAR90
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:43 am

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 4):

I've flown 727s and A320s out of SAN for years (like 25) and have never understood what all the fuss was about. And neither do the fellow pilots at my airline.

IMHO, just plenty of "press" about how "difficult" it is. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Max Q
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:59 am

Seriously, since when did not having an ILS make for a challenging airport ?!


San Diego is a delight to fly in and out of. So it's a non precision approach, if you can't handle that as an Airline Pilot stay home and watch Doctor Phil.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
 
FCAFLYBOY
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:45 am

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 10):

London Gatwick by a mile
 
NDiesel
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:31 am

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 13):
London Gatwick by a mile

I thought STN came in at 2nd in terms of largest airport with single runway ops? I couldn't find the number of flight movements for SAN, but STN had 143 511 last year and more passengers that SAN.
Delta MD-11 JFK-CDG - Upon sunrise I fell in love with Aviation
 
maxpower1954
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:49 am

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 10):
Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 4):
LGA and DCA by any measure are more of a challenge on an everyday basis than SAN ever will be.

Why?

Both LGA and DCA have short 7,000 to 7,500 foot runways or less like 33 at DCA 5,500 which either terminate into a body of water or onto an expressway. The River Visual to 19 at DCA involves following the Potomoc River exactly to avoid the restricted airspace, with a low altitude turn to final that would get me fired if I tried it anywhere else. LGA has the Long Island Expressway Visual to 31 which is another barnstormer manuver involving a low altitude turn over the 1964 World's Fair Unisphere. Throw in strong, gusting winter crosswinds and marginal braking action reports and you are operating under a reduced margin of safety, that's for sure. And all SAN has is a parking garage? In good weather with light winds most all the time. and no ice on the runway?
 
UA787DEN
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:35 pm

Quoting NDiesel (Reply 14):

SAN carried only 200,000 fewer pax last year, and will overtake STN this year. SAN also had around 200,000 movements, far more than STN. LGW beats everybody with double the pax and 250,000 movements.
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:23 pm

Just to be fair SAN is technically the worlds busiest single runway airport because LGW has 2 runways, realistically it is LGW because one runway will always be unusable.

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 11):

But there are other airports I would give in SOCAL that are more dangerous like SNA, AVX, BUR
Boiler Up!
 
B737900
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:08 pm

My memory of SAN goes back to the mid-sixties and US Navy/Marine Corps boot camp. The departures and arrivals would go right over us and boy did we all want to be on those departures. Back then it was mostly PSA flying B727's (I believe I'm correct in that). The most interesting aspect, even back then, was the close proximity of highrise office buildings. SAN seemed like it was "downtown" even then.
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Caspian27
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:06 pm

I would think most airline pilots wouldn't consider SAN extreme. A little out of the ordinary maybe, yes. An airport like ASE however is extreme and somehow never makes it onto these lists.
Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
 
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RayChuang
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:21 pm

The biggest problem with SAN is that steep approach to Runway 27, regardless of that parking structure at the end of the runway. I have concerns that one of these days, a pilot may misjudge the landing approach and something really horrible will occur.
 
barney captain
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:25 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Thread starter):
relatively short runway,

.......and to add on to what others have said - at 9400', SAN is hardly "short". But the myth continues to propagate.
Southeast Of Disorder
 
ZBBYLW
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:40 pm

SAN is not that big of a deal. I like flying into it because the view is nice and it's warm in SAN but otherwise nothing too exciting. Yes 27 does not have an ILS but many airports that regularly see planes bigger than DH8s also have Non-precision approaches. While most places do it is certainly not a big deal if you have to fly a LOC approach! Especially with how we fly approaches now flying a constant decent angle... You treat the MDA like you would a DH on an ILS, decent down to an altitude and either land or go missed. No step downs etc... Passed the faf.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
B777LRF
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:46 pm

Whenever you see a TV showe called "world's worst/best/biggest ..." and that show was produced in the US, it's almost guarenteed 99% of the contents will have a heavy US bias, and will thus be worldly in name only. Same league as the "World Series" of baseball.

I could probably name you 100 airports that are far more challenging than SAN, but neither of them are in the US and so they didn't pass the litmus test for this show.
From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
 
StarAC17
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Thread starter):
On a recent "The World's Most Extreme Airports" show, I was surprised to see my hometown's airport, San Diego's Lindbergh field listed at #10. I know SAN is not your average airport for a major US city with its single, relatively short runway, proximity to downtown San Diego and high terrain in Point Loma, but to be ranked the 10th. most extreme airport in the world was something I didn't expect. So what do you think, is SAN really that challenging for pilots?

When I look at that list I wonder why WLG didn't make it because where it is located and the conditions it deals with and IIRC you need a certification to fly there.

Also considering the nickname for Wellington is Windy Welly  .

Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 19):
I would think most airline pilots wouldn't consider SAN extreme. A little out of the ordinary maybe, yes. An airport like ASE however is extreme and somehow never makes it onto these lists.

I don't think many would consider SXM extreme either.
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Tomassjc
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:11 pm

Quoting TrnsWrld (Reply 9):
Single straight runway located in sunny California


There's a wee bit of low ceiling threat during those "May/June Gloom" mornings, foggy fall nights, and during the occasional winter rains. But doesn't Runway 9 have an ILS and can be used during those times, wind permitting?

Tomas SJC
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SANMAN66
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:19 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 20):
that parking structure at the end of the runway

That parking structure has been there for the past 30 years. The FAA would never have allowed to let
the parking garage to be built in that spot if it was hampering the approaches into SAN. People used to
say "Because they built that parking garage there" We can kiss widebody service to Lindbergh goodbye!
30 years later, the widebodies are still coming here.


  

Quoting AAR90 (Reply 11):
just plenty of "press" about how "difficult" it is. Nothing more, nothing less.


Throw in a little folklore also! I'm not doubting the steep approach,but it appears the media is once again
making things sound worse than they really are.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 12):
San Diego is a delight to fly in and out of.

Flying into SAN at night is a beautiful sight!
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:46 pm

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 4):
I've flown 727s and A320s out of SAN for years (like 25) and have never understood what all the fuss was about. And neither do the fellow pilots at my airline.
Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 19):
I would think most airline pilots wouldn't consider SAN extreme.

I agree, but there are some pilots who will list SAN as their most challenging airport. A friend sat next to a WN pilot recently and he asked him what he thought was the hardest place he flies to and the pilot listed SAN among a few other cities.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 7):
I flew PHX-SAN in about 2003 on HP. They announced as we were departing the gate at PHX that it would be the first flight commanded by a newly promoted captain. I could see that it worried a few of the pax around me. I would have forgotten the flight by now if not for the fact that it ended with my first ever go-around after we apparently came in a little high. I saw a few people hanging on really tight on the second approach. Anyway, I enjoy telling that story whenever the topic of SAN's challenges comes up.

Not the ideal time for a go-around, but go-arounds are very common at SAN. Too common to make any correlation to the Captain being freshly promoted, in my opinion.

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 8):
This is such an exageration. Top ten in California sure...in the world, I doubt it. SAN should be disqualified simply because it's in so-cal so no matter how bad the airport is, the weather never really gets THAT bad.
Quoting TrnsWrld (Reply 9):
Single straight runway located in sunny California.

Enough with the sunny California stuff. San Diego gets weather, and it's the kind of weather that restricts visibility and is the number one problem for the airport. Around every change of season San Diego has big problems with fog and the fog likes to hit during the busiest travel periods. Week of Thanksgiving ALWAYS has fog issues and just last week at the start of Spring Break we've had fog disruptions. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is how when visibility restricts landings to runway 9, due to departure weight restrictions many departures will use runway 27. So you'll have both runway 9 and 27 ops taking place at the same time. That's a less than ideal, challenging situtation that is actually very common.
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bohica
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:11 pm

Quoting StarAC17 (Reply 24):
I don't think many would consider SXM extreme either.

The TV show called SXM extreme not because of the approach over a beach, but because of people hanging on to the fence when an airplane powers up for takeoff. The people are basically "flying" hanging on to the fence for dear life while in the jet blast of an airliner starting its takeoff roll. I believe they call this fence surfing. I call it stupid. I have seen a video on "Worlds Dumbest" or one of those similar shows where a person lost her grip on the fence and got blown across the road onto the beach. She was lucky to have only minor injuries. In my book though, this would not qualify SXM as an extreme airport.
 
cubastar
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:22 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 12):
San Diego is a delight to fly in and out of. So it's a non precision approach, if you can't handle that as an Airline Pilot stay home and watch Doctor Phil.

I'm with you Max! I really had a good time flying into SAN and landing on 27. Two, Three and Four holers. Remember the hotel (with restaurant on top) just to the north of the centerline of the runway? Just fly by it and you were at the correct altitude if it was just level with your window.

As for DCA, the river approach to 18 was super fun. Also, the LGA expressway and the JFK carnarsie approach to 13. I may not have spelled the name of the approach to JFK correctly.
 
maxpower1954
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:39 pm

Quoting cubastar (Reply 29):
As for DCA, the river approach to 18 was super fun. Also, the LGA expressway and the JFK carnarsie approach to 13. I may not have spelled the name of the approach to JFK correctly.

Like my Navy friends say, coming aboard the boat on a nice sunny day is huge fun. Same for the River Visual 19, Expressway Visual to 31 or the VOR 13L/R at JFK (the official name for the Carnarsie visual). Throw in nighttime, strong turbulent shifting crosswinds and a rain or snow swept 7,000 foot runway that ends up in the Potomac or East River and you can see why calling SAN an extreme airport is laughable.

[Edited 2013-03-23 11:41:25]

[Edited 2013-03-23 11:43:10]
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:43 pm

San Diego is a nice city, has great views when you land and is quirks, I bet Mexico City is more challenging, and since Ill be landing in Paro (Buthan) in a few months..I get that will reset my perception on difficult approaches ..
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maxpower1954
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:44 pm

I can also tell you from personal experience that MEX is far more challenging than SAN to operate out of.
 
DLSANMan
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:59 pm

Well I have flown in and out every week for the past 10 years, sometimes more than 6x a week. In all of those years only 6 go arounds and 2 of those were on the same day. I have had multiple diversions though due to Fog/Low Ceilings and diverted to LAX, ONT and PHX. This year I have had more evening landings from RWY9 then ever. I always love to hear the comments on board when we land "reverse'. Ooh Ahh I have never landed this way. From my perspective, people (those that only fly a few times a year) seem to worry because of all the hype. For me, I love coming home every time I arrive!
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:07 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 12):
So it's a non precision approach, if you can't handle that as an Airline Pilot stay home and watch Doctor Phil.

  
.

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 17):
Just to be fair SAN is technically the worlds busiest single runway airport because LGW has 2 runways, realistically it is LGW because one runway will always be unusable.

Why is the second runway not used?

Quoting Barney Captain (Reply 21):
.......and to add on to what others have said - at 9400', SAN is hardly "short". But the myth continues to propagate.

For a 737/A320 it isn't, but for a widebody at MTOW, it is.

Quoting bohica (Reply 28):
The TV show called SXM extreme not because of the approach over a beach, but because of people hanging on to the fence when an airplane powers up for takeoff. The people are basically "flying" hanging on to the fence for dear life while in the jet blast of an airliner starting its takeoff roll. I believe they call this fence surfing. I call it stupid. I have seen a video on "Worlds Dumbest" or one of those similar shows where a person lost her grip on the fence and got blown across the road onto the beach. She was lucky to have only minor injuries. In my book though, this would not qualify SXM as an extreme airport.

  
.

Quoting as739x (Reply 2):
the often forgotten marine layer that can cause mild haze.
Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 25):
There's a wee bit of low ceiling threat during those "May/June Gloom" mornings, foggy fall nights, and during the occasional winter rains. But doesn't Runway 9 have an ILS and can be used during those times, wind permitting?
Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 27):
Enough with the sunny California stuff. San Diego gets weather, and it's the kind of weather that restricts visibility and is the number one problem for the airport. Around every change of season San Diego has big problems with fog and the fog likes to hit during the busiest travel periods. Week of Thanksgiving ALWAYS has fog issues and just last week at the start of Spring Break we've had fog disruptions.

   Fog is the only weather problem SAN has and I don't think it's too bad compared to other airports.



Quoting DLSANMan (Reply 33):
Well I have flown in and out every week for the past 10 years, sometimes more than 6x a week.

You're so lucky!
 
us330
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:26 pm

Quoting cubastar (Reply 29):
As for DCA, the river approach to 18 was super fun. Also, the LGA expressway and the JFK carnarsie approach to 13.

I've lived in both NYC and DC, and flew primarily out DCA and LGA. Loved flying in on both approaches. This is anecdotal, but once sat next to an AA MD80 captain deadheading after flying the plane up to DCA--according to him, the only time he ever really feels challenged on a standard approach anymore is the River Visual.
 
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ADent
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:59 pm

It is on the list because it looks dramatic. Pictures of large aircraft flying below buildings shows well.

These shows are heavy on visuals and light on documentary style content. Also because it is easy to get to (for a US based TV crew) and appealing to the staff (esp if the show was filmed in winter). The show also seemed to want to get a variety of airports - otherwise I think they could have all been mountain airports.

The original thread discussing the show ( "The Most Extreme Airports On" T.V. Tuesday (by redtailsforever Jul 19 2010 in Civil Aviation) ) also agreed SAN as a weak choice for the show.
 
as739x
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:02 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 34):
   Fog is the only weather problem SAN has and I don't think it's too bad compared to other airports.

I agree. I was just casually referring more to the hazing marine layer that often makes depth perception a challenge while executing a visual approach at SAN.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
johns624
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 27):
Too common to make any correlation to the Captain being freshly promoted, in my opinion.

1. The caprtain might not of even been flying that leg.
2. I'm sure the captain had many years experience in the right seat.
 
SANMAN66
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:18 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 34):
Why is the second runway not used?

I've heard that the reason LGW's second runway is not used is because both runways are too
close together to be used simultaneously. So most of the time they use the unusable runway as a
taxiway, or when they are making repairs to the other one.
PSA Gives you a lift!
 
rickabone
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:29 pm

I know it's VERY rare (happens maybe a couple hours every year on average), but I think landing on either 01L or 01R at SFO would be MUCH more extreme than landing at SAN.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:10 pm

Quoting johns624 (Reply 38):

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 27):
Too common to make any correlation to the Captain being freshly promoted, in my opinion.

1. The caprtain might not of even been flying that leg.
2. I'm sure the captain had many years experience in the right seat.


1. Yes, that is a likely possibility.
2. Absolutely the captain had many years in the right seat. That is fact. Which means it probably wasn't his first time flying to SAN.

[Edited 2013-03-23 14:11:30]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
ZBBYLW
Posts: 1612
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:17 am

RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:36 pm

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 31):

San Diego is a nice city, has great views when you land and is quirks, I bet Mexico City is more challenging, and since Ill be landing in Paro (Buthan) in a few months..I get that will reset my perception on difficult approaches ..
Regards
TRB

You're right MEX is more challenging. Due to the high density altitude and transition to final. I have only flown a narrow body into there but I am sure the wide bodies have fun.
Keep the shinny side up!
 
filejw
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:43 pm

Actual I would classify it as one of the more fun airports except when you are limited by T/O to the east .Flown Dc9 to 744 to SAN over last 30 plus years and its always a good time..
 
PITrules
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:58 pm

I find BUR to be much more 'extreme' than SAN. The preferred landing runway is only 5,800 feet and is used by aircraft as large as A-300s. When clearing there is no separation between runway and ramp/taxi lane.


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The preferred departure runway has terrain issues and only affords about 6,700' of usable takeoff distance available. This results in load limits for transcon flights; I remember figuring the usable payload down to the checked bag in A-320s. No room for error. While such precise load limits are common with regional aircraft, it most likely is because of center of gravity limits or exceeding either maximum zero fuel weight or max takeoff weight... not exceeding a runway's performance limit.

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 13):

London Gatwick by a mile
Quoting web500sjc (Reply 17):
Just to be fair SAN is technically the worlds busiest single runway airport because LGW has 2 runways, realistically it is LGW because one runway will always be unusable.

Even though LGW can only use one runway at a time, having two runways is still a huge benefit when one runway is closed due to maintenance or a disabled aircraft. SAN doesn't have this benefit. Unlike LGW, It truly has one runway and therefore is the busiest single runway airport in the world.

[Edited 2013-03-23 15:02:36]
FLYi
 
usctrojan18
Posts: 88
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:37 pm

Quoting rickabone (Reply 40):
Quoting rickabone (Reply 40):
I know it's VERY rare (happens maybe a couple hours every year on average), but I think landing on either 01L or 01R at SFO would be MUCH more extreme than landing at SAN.

Yea, I've always wanted to see a real video of those approaches because it reminds me of a sort of USA Tegucigalpa, but I could never find one (except FSX videos). If anyone has one that would be great.
 
Boeing717200
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:08 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 44):

My thought as well. Poor minima, displaced thresholds on that 5800 ft runway, non precisions to the longer runway, precipitous terrain surounds and yeah, move the freakin' terminal already before someone gets killed. Runway centerline to aircraft parking area minimum distance is 500 feet. Those tails on the gates are at no more than 300 feet if that.

As for SAN? Gimmie a break. Climbs out of runway both runway ends are a mess due to obstacles, but arrivals are nothing, just crappy minima. That airport is pure narrowbody nirvana, just a widebody headache depending on where you want to go.
 
Viscount724
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:19 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 44):
Even though LGW can only use one runway at a time, having two runways is still a huge benefit when one runway is closed due to maintenance or a disabled aircraft. SAN doesn't have this benefit. Unlike LGW, It truly has one runway and therefore is the busiest single runway airport in the world.

While LGW has the taxiway that can be used as a runway, the number of times it has to be used due the primary runway being closed for maintenance or a disabled aircraft is quite minimal I believe. That would make a very small difference in LGW's trafic data. There's no comparison between LGW and SAN in terms of passenger traffic. LGW is normally considered the busiest single-runway airport. I've never seen anything official that gives SAN that title.
 
maxpower1954
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sun Mar 24, 2013 4:36 am

Quoting usctrojan18 (Reply 45):
I know it's VERY rare (happens maybe a couple hours every year on average), but I think landing on either 01L or 01R at SFO would be MUCH more extreme than landing at SAN.

Yea, I've always wanted to see a real video of those approaches because it reminds me of a sort of USA Tegucigalpa, but I could never find one (except FSX videos). If anyone has one that would be great.

This will get you started. Bonus: it's a Convair 990!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aqI1q9-lGk
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Crew
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RE: San Diego's Lindbergh Field, An Extreme Airport?

Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:09 am

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 5):
2) Its the 2nd busiest 1-runway airport in the world

Which is why I think it makes the list.

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 13):
London Gatwick by a mile

Seems logical.

Quoting UA787DEN (Reply 16):
LGW beats everybody with double the pax and 250,000 movements.

Thank you for the numbers. 22.5% more movements is enough to wake everyone up...

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 17):
LGW has 2 runways, realistically it is LGW because one runway will always be unusable.

Eventually it will have be able to use both runways... however, I expect one to be moved (increase seperation) and a taxiway installed between them first.

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 34):
Why is the second runway not used?

A lawsuit by the NIMBYs limits LGW to single runway operation until some future date (I forget the expiration).

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain