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readytotaxi
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Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:22 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-21904501

"Heathrow Airport, says only one in 10,000 flights results in a vortex."

Nice to see that they put their hands up, imagine if it were Windsor Castle !!  Wow!  
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
 
kl911
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sat Mar 23, 2013 6:46 pm

Lol, so let people think twice before buying or renting a very cheap property next to an airport.  
 
as739x
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:23 pm

Mrs Hills added: "The airport have been fantastic and came to fix the damage almost immediately."

Nice to hear. And a first I have read where the article ends on a positive note.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
rfields5421
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:31 pm

Okay.

This happened about 3 1/2 to 4 miles from the threshold, when a landing jet would be at least 2,000 ft above the house.

And the 'vortex' blew holes in the roof, and parts of the roof down.

I'm surprised the house hasn't fallen down before.
 
bristolflyer
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:25 pm

Anyone want to guess what would happen if such a vortex hit a person?
Fortune favours the brave
 
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OA260
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:42 pm

This kind of stuff has happened quite a few times over the years. Glad she was reasonable about it. Seems like quick action kept any complaints at bay.
 
N243NW
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:09 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Thread starter):
"Heathrow Airport, says only one in 10,000 flights results in a vortex."

What do they mean by that? Is it an instance where the wake vortices don't break up and survive long enough to drift down to the ground?
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
sprout5199
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:35 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Thread starter):
"Heathrow Airport, says only one in 10,000 flights results in a vortex."

Really? I thought every airplane created a vortex, as it is a by-product of generating lift.

Dan in Jupiter
 
transaeroyyz
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:04 am

did they determine witch plane/airline it was?
 
captainstefan
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:14 am

Quoting transaeroyyz (Reply 11):
did they determine witch plane/airline it was?

My guess is that it would be nearly impossible to determine it - If the aircraft are (as stated above) at about 2000 ft. AGL, that would mean a wake vortex would hit the ground about 4 minutes after the aircraft passes overhead (they typically drop at 500 ft/min). Also of note, their descent rate and horizontal travel (about 5 knots perpendicular to the path of the aircraft) can both be affected by even the slightest wind. You could narrow it down to a handful of planes with some exhausting research, but unless you were watching the event unfold it's unlikely you'd be able to pin down a culprit.
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 2:33 am

I always associate aircraft vortexes with coming off the wingtips and descending down to the ground where they roll off to the sides depending on wind direction on the ground. The vortexes I am talking about are the kind you see coming off the wingtips of aircraft on rainy days. When a large aircraft is flying low and slow with everything hanging out (flaps, gear, etc). on a still wind day the vortexes are at their strongest.

And as stated earlier, all aircraft generate these vortexes as a by product of flight. What is the U.S. English term for Vortex? I know we use that term here in the U.S. but I am wondering if it has another meaning in the U.K. that we are missing?
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Web500sjc
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:05 am

Quoting type-rated (Reply 13):

Wing tip vorticies, wake turbulance

I thought the worst wake turbulance was behind an aircraft that is slow, clean and Heavy...
Boiler Up!
 
Unclekoru
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:09 am

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 4):
This happened about 3 1/2 to 4 miles from the threshold, when a landing jet would be at least 2,000 ft above the house.

And the 'vortex' blew holes in the roof, and parts of the roof down.

I'm surprised the house hasn't fallen down before.

Assuming a normal profile, 3.5 - 4 nm from the threshold is more like 1000-1200 feet above threshold crossing height.

[Edited 2013-03-23 20:11:01]
It sounds like english, but I can't understand a word you're saying
 
N243NW
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:13 am

Quoting type-rated (Reply 13):
When a large aircraft is flying low and slow with everything hanging out (flaps, gear, etc). on a still wind day the vortexes are at their strongest.

Not quite, as web500sjc has noted.

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 14):
slow, clean and Heavy...

Also, the word vortex is a tricky one - plural is "vortices." I used to cringe every time I heard my aerospace engineering professors (one in particular) refer to a vortex as a "vortice"...
B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
 
hotplane
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:24 am

I live very close to one of the approaches at Heathrow and have noticed that 757s and 777-300ERs seem much worse for lwake lingering around afterwards.
?
 
crownvic
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 10:42 am

I live underneath the approach path to MCO Orlando Intl. Acft pass over approx 1500 ft agl...Guaranteed almost everytime in calm wind conditions when a 757 passes over I count about 30 seconds and the wake vorticies swirl around in the trees all around my house and come down into my driveway and most times into the garage stirring up leaves....The sound is unique like a whistle too...Its always a 757 everytime consistently and no other acft!
 
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Alsatian
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:17 am

Quoting captainstefan (Reply 12):
You could narrow it down to a handful of planes with some exhausting research, but unless you were watching the event unfold it's unlikely you'd be able to pin down a culprit.
Quoting crownvic (Reply 18):
Its always a 757 everytime consistently and no other acft!

If that was indeed a 757 (nothing proved yet), it could be easy to identify the airliner involved. Which airlines are still flying 757 to LHR ? AA UA FI KC . More ?
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pilotanthony
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:01 pm

Quoting crownvic (Reply 18):
Its always a 757 everytime consistently and no other acft!

Yeah the 757 is known to cause severe wake turbulence, therefore its classed as 'HEAVY' in the wake turbulence category's. Pretty interesting!

Tony
Anthony Paraschou
 
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:07 pm

I always was taught that while wake turbulence is always behind an aircraft it's worse behind large aircraft as in when they are flying their approaches to landing. And I can't tell you how many safety videos I have seen on the subject. But then I learned to fly in the late 60's-early 70's. Maybe something has changed along the way with research showing different?

Now when are you going to find an airliner clean flying slow? Below 10K feet, but usually when they are below 10K they are landing and already have some flaps deployed. So you'd find clean mainly on departure.

And it wasn't too long after the 757 came out that it was mentioned that the 757 had worse wake turbulence possibilities than most other jets that size and to be very careful when following them.

If you look at wake turbulence accidents, most of them take place while following an aircraft on final approach.

[Edited 2013-03-24 11:08:05]
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U2380
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:21 pm

Quoting type-rated (Reply 19):
So you'd find clean mainly on departure.

Most large transport aircraft will never be 'clean' on departure. They will almost always have some degree of high lift devices deployed. Attempting to take off with a clean configuration will result in a take off configuration warning in most types I believe.

If I recall correctly, trailing edge high lift devices destructively interfere with vortices, resulting in lesser wake turbulence than a comparable aircraft in a clean configuration. Of course it's far more complex that that, as with everything in aerodynamics, but I can't recall any more detail than that.   

[Edited 2013-03-24 11:22:11]
 
goosebayguy
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Sun Mar 24, 2013 9:15 pm

Interesting that the airport sets aside £15m a year to pay fpr such damage. I guess its an equal amount paid by all airlines into the kitty? Am surprised we have not heard such stories before or from other airports. Do other airports have similar schemes?
 
TonyBurr
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RE: Heathrow Bound Jet Rips Off Roof Tiles!

Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:24 am

Does anyone know what flight, airline it was? Coming from?

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