Guest

Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 7:21 am

I heard that air france and delta where working together on a new first class. they both needed a new fist class, because delta has only 2 class ( bizelite will stay) and air france first class was not at all competitive to BA, UAL, Singapore, American, and all these first class. is it the first time two company work together for new inflight products ? are they gonna have both same or design will change ? will air france also change business, not at all competitive too ? where can i have some more info ? What do you think about it ?
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 8:25 am

I think I read on this board a number of months ago that this would be an exchange. DL wants AF to have a better Biz Class so AF would have a Biz Elite-like cabin whilst AF wants DL to have an intercontinental First Class cabin so DL would do that.

I think KL / NW designed their World Business Class in collaboration with each other. Aren't the BA / QF Biz Class products quite similar too? I may be very wrong on the latter point though.
 
modesto2
Posts: 2669
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2000 3:44 am

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 10:42 am

So Delta will have to refit their international fleet AGAIN? Is this wise? Why didn't they do this in the first place?
 
tullamarine
Posts: 1612
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 1999 1:14 pm

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 11:23 am

QF and BA J Class are not similar though I'm sure they both claim to have similar service standards.
717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,310,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,AT
 
Guest

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 11:25 am

What are DL's different cabins on all flights?

Coach and BizElite? Any others?
 
jrlander
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First C

Tue Oct 24, 2000 11:47 am

Air France doesn't have First on its 767 fleet, so I wonder if Delta would install this class on all planes, or just the 777 and MD-11's
 
FLY777UAL
Posts: 4830
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 3:21 pm

Air France DOES have L'Espace 180 on their 767-300 fleet. Five seats total, of which I believe one is for Pilot rest.

F L Y 7 7 7 U A L
 
mikeymike
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu May 18, 2000 6:52 am

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 9:01 pm

Delta is not modifying its International Fleet in any way shape or form. Our two-class service with Business Elite over international routes is here to stay.

 
qantas777
Posts: 390
Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2000 7:52 am

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 10:56 pm

I think DL needs to think long and hard about Bizelite. Its nothing like BA or SA. And first class? Well, it would be neat if they put in a first cabin to compete against UAL and AA. But the thing that floors me is the crappy 2-5-2 layout in the 777. It makes no sense and the idiots who wanted this should think again.

PS airfrance needs to get a new biz and first class.
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 11:10 pm

I'm not sure how many people on here have flown Delta's Biz Class (or any Biz class who's virtues they trumpet), but having flown it on more than one occassion, I can assert that its one of the best flying experiences there is. Great value for the money. Wonderful seats with the best lumbar support around. Believe me, it is very very easy to fall asleep in a seat that reclines as much as the Delta seat. The food is very good, the service is unobstrusive. Most corporations, law firms, etc, will not foot the bill for First Class any more, so an excellent Business Class product is essential.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
n175dz
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 11:20 pm

IMHO, the only way that Delta can improve biz-elite to make it more attractive to passengers who HAVEN'T already flown it is to make the seats fully flat. Having just done a round trip LGW-ATL in biz-elite on 767-300ERs, I reckon it's one of, if not the, most comfortable places to be for 9 hours!

When designing it, I'm guessing that Delta must have asked themselves did they really need a 'true' First Class for trans-atlantic flights (their biggest international market)? Jaysit is right in that not many firms will pay first class fares, so flying an enhanced business product (eg. DL Bizelite or CO Bizfirst) is the way to go!

Also - as best i can tell, DL is having no trouble filling biz-elite on most flights. So, if it ain't broke, why fix it?

The only thing I would change is to serve their fantastic cookies with every meal - not just lunch!  

cheers, Phil.
 
AF777
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 1999 11:44 pm

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 11:20 pm

My concern with the BizElite seats is that they are not much wider than coach in the 767's! I like really wide seats that recline far like Air Canada's business or Continental's. Isn't the width a problem?

-wes
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 11:42 pm

No, the width is not really a problem. I flew the 763, and the only problem was the aisle width with 6 abreast seating. The seats really are constructed to cradle and support you.
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
YYZGuy
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Tue Oct 24, 2000 11:59 pm

Jaysit,

I travel regularly on DL 763s across the Atlantic. The seat width of the BE seat is narrow for a wide person like me, especially when the headphones are plugged in (they plug into the inside of the armrest, poking into my thigh). The BE seat on the 767 is a couple of inches narrower than the seat in the 777, according to Delta's seating charts circa July 2000. Delta should have gone with 5 abreast seating on the 763 like Air Canada and the now defunct Canadian. The Delta entertainment system is not as well rounded as those on AC/CP, but it's not bad. The quality of the food is below the Canadian carriers for flights originating in the US. For flights originating in the UK, the food is as good as any trans Atlantic business class I have flown.

Two airlines share the of honour of having the best airline food I have experienced. They are Air France and Air Canada, both in First Class.

Delta's Vinnum wine programme is excellent. It has some of the best wines I have ever had while airborne. It even offers Canadian Ice Wine in season.

Mark
 
jaysit
Posts: 10186
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2000 11:50 pm

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Wed Oct 25, 2000 12:46 am

Mark,

You are right. Its not perfect. But on flights leaving the US, I usually settle for a quick light meal and fall asleep. I have not listened to their audio program a whole lot.

The food out of London or Europe in general is always better than out of the US. I don't know why that is, but its a trend Ive seen on all carriers on all classes.

I have not flown Air Canada's biz class (although I did fly them in coach all the way to Tokyo).
Atheism is Myth Understood.
 
n175dz
Posts: 269
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Wed Oct 25, 2000 1:57 am

Although the seats are narrower on the 767-300ER, I didn't find them any less comfortable, or any more difficult to sleep on.

Quick question - are the seats on the MD-11 the same width as those on the 772? Other than the 767, I've only flown biz-elite on the MD-11, so I'm interested to know.

I do agree with YYZMAN - DL's Vinium program is excellent - I do recommend the Bordeax if anyone's flying this month!!! Also - the food is better out of LGW/MAN than out of ATL, but that could be down to my choice from the menu!

The only problem I have with the entertainment system is that it's always the same regardless of the direction of travel! I'll try and schedule my next round trip so each segment is in a different month  

cheers, Phil.
 
AF777
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 1999 11:44 pm

FLY777UAL

Wed Oct 25, 2000 4:10 am

I believe that the 767's do not have first class. I have read press releases about Air Frances service into sone US cities with the 767 and they have described their Business and Economy service only. Plus their timetable shows they only have L'Espace Affaires and Tempo service
-wes
 
jrlander
Posts: 1025
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 1999 3:47 am

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First C

Wed Oct 25, 2000 4:13 am

Fly777UAL:

According to www.airfrance.com, the Air France 767-300ER's do not have L'Espace 180. They only show L'Espace 127.
 
Peter
Posts: 549
Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2000 6:08 am

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Wed Oct 25, 2000 5:09 am

I hope that Delta doesn't make a first class. It would be a waste. Business elite is selling well. I've been fortunate enought to fly in Business elite on the 767-300ER, MD-11, and 777, and seat width is not a problem. It is VERY comfortable.
 
nickofatlanta
Posts: 1272
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 1:06 am

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Wed Oct 25, 2000 5:12 am

Seat width is not a problem IMHO. I find the Biz Elite product to be extremely comfortable.
 
Guest

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Wed Oct 25, 2000 6:42 am

According to www.airfrance.com, the Air France 767-300ER's do not have L'Espace 180. They only show L'Espace 127.
On those site, they do not schow the name of first but a closer look will schow you the first row with more space :

on airfrance.net their is an plan that schow you more l'espace 180
 
Guest

RE: Delta And Air France Working For A New First Class

Wed Oct 25, 2000 6:43 am

According to www.airfrance.com, the Air France 767-300ER's do not have L'Espace 180. They only show L'Espace 127 : it was just a repetition of what sayd Jrlander

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