Gonzalo
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Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:05 am

I was reading about HA and the good work they are doing with the airline, which was much smaller just a few years ago. Also about the fleet changes in HA ( purchase of A321, A330 and A350 ) and its implications for the expansion of the airline looking for new markets ( Asia, Europe ). While all this is happening in HA, the flights to the islands represents about 20 % of the scheduled flights of another great airline with a fast growing in the recent years : Alaska Airlines.
Apparently ( my sources are just media and some other forums ) AS is doing a great job in the Hawaiian market with a very smart flight schedule to the west coast and northwest.
Could this two airlines see its operations as complementary, and try a merger ? Or is this too far fetched ?

Just asking...

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dabpit
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:42 pm

It would be interesting; however, I don't see it ever happening.
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Mortyman
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:05 pm

Has'nt this been discussed numerous times before on this forum ?
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:20 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Could this two airlines see its operations as complementary, and try a merger ?

No. Two different goals in two different regions. HA and AS are nothing alike.

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Or is this too far fetched ?

Yes. See above.

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 2):
Has'nt this been discussed numerous times before on this forum ?

Yes. Every couple of weeks, someone gets bored and starts marrying AS off to one airline or another.
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lhcvg
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:40 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):Could this two airlines see its operations as complementary, and try a merger ?
No. Two different goals in two different regions. HA and AS are nothing alike.

Agree with the above - the only real synergy I could see would be if there were a business case for consolidating mainland-HI traffic between them, and perhaps beefing up some of the direct feed to that traffic given AS's more extensive service east across the continent. But I don't think that case is really viable at this time.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:45 pm

Short answer: no. Also, there is too much overlapping of routes/markets now between the mainland/Alaska and Hawaii. The DOJ would take issue with that. Competition would decrease and that's bad for consumers. There is nothing in the public's best interest about this merger.
 
SANFan
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:15 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 2):
Hasn't this been discussed numerous times before on this forum?

Yes, to a point beyond tedium. OP, please do a search and see what's already been said -- MANY times...

bb
 
BC77008
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:36 pm

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Could this two airlines see its operations as complementary, and try a merger ?
"He waited his whole damn life to take that flight. And as the plane crashed down he thought 'Well isn't this nice...'"
 
stlgph
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:37 pm

Alaska is currently trading around $62. Hawaiian is currently trading around $5.80.
Blackrock, Vanguard, State Street, Acadian, JP Morgan - are all some of the largest share holders in both companies. Given the price difference, a merger would serve little purpose for either of their portfolios.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:40 pm

Quoting BC77008 (Reply 7):
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Could this two airlines see its operations as complementary, and try a merger ?

Best. Response. Ever.  
 
lhcvg
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:46 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 9):
Quoting BC77008 (Reply 7):Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Could this two airlines see its operations as complementary, and try a merger ?

Best. Response. Ever.

It was only a matter of time before Grumpy Cat made his appearance on these esteemed forums!
 
KD5MDK
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting stlgph (Reply 8):

I don't disagree with your outcome, but the share price is irrelevant.

T has a share price of 36.57 right now and a market cap of 200B. ALK has a share price of 59.04 and a market cap of 4.17B. Which is worth more as a company?
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 3):
No. Two different goals in two different regions. HA and AS are nothing alike.

Not quite. AS and HA have very similar corporate cultures, service goals, and both a record of high customer satisfaction and on time performance. The similarities between the states of Alaska and Hawaii are not all that extreme. Both have native populations, are isolated, and depend on air service within the state in order to get somewhere quickly. Outside of that.....it's HAS been discussed....

Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
Yes, to a point beyond tedium. OP, please do a search and see what's already been said -- MANY times...

        

Tomas SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:00 pm

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 12):
Not quite.

Perhaps then you could detail for us the far-flung international goals Alaska Airlines has stated and embarked upon in comparison to Hawaiian Airlines.  
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AWACSooner
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:37 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Reply 2):
Has'nt this been discussed numerous times before on this forum ?

About as much as when NW/DL will retire their DC-9's
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 13):
Perhaps then you could detail for us the far-flung international goals Alaska Airlines has stated and embarked upon in comparison to Hawaiian Airlines.


As far as THIS statement goes, true, AS and HA are nothing alike. I simply mentioned what similarities that the two carriers share, as you made a blanket statement "HA and AS are nothing alike"  

[Edited 2013-03-26 12:23:41]
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
denverdanny
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:44 pm

I'm putting forth two potential names for the airline, should there be a merger. 4950, 'cause I'm not sure there's ever been a number for an airline. That would be interesting, and everything ending in fifty has a grander sound. (Psst, also a fun and secret geography test!) Or, something to fill the entire length of the fuselage, like Humuhumunukunukuapua'Airlines. Now serving baked alaska. Both names would be interesting advertising wise.

[Edited 2013-03-26 12:52:38]

[Edited 2013-03-26 12:53:21]
 
hiflyeras
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:45 pm

People that discount this from happening aren't seeing the beauty of it. You have two similar airlines in many ways...excellent customer service, stellar on-time, outliers in the industry. Connect ANC and SEA with some of HA's Asia destinations and you'd have a formidable competitor over a vast area of the world. I wish I was clever enough to merge the AS and HA route maps...if I could I'm sure it'd be a beautiful thing.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:29 pm

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 16):
I'm putting forth two potential names for the airline, should there be a merger.

How about "The Non-Continental" Airlines?
 
denverdanny
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:33 pm

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 18):
How about "The Non-Continental" Airlines?

That's pretty good.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:30 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 17):
People that discount this from happening aren't seeing the beauty of it.

Not much beauty in it when people in Anchorage or Portland or San Diego have to pay a higher fare to Hawaii because there's no other nonstop competition. Those are the things that get examined by the feds, not how awesome it would be to fly from Fairbanks to Pago Pago on the same airline.

I just don't see the value as a shareholder or as a customer.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:44 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 20):
I just don't see the value as a shareholder or as a customer.

I have a feeling that the customer is winning out over the shareholder here. Fares are high everywhere.

AS would be a stronger, more formidable company if they merged/purchased HA. UA and DL still have plenty of flights to Hawaii....I don't think that there would be the big anti-competition issue that people seem to think would cause the feds to take note. There isn't that much overlap...and AS has no service from SFO or LAX to Hawaii. The hardest part about the whole thing would be what to name the damn thing as noted earlier. I'm sure some branding firm could come up with the perfect name for the right price.
 
SuperDash
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:47 am

I think a Delta-Hawaiian merger makes more sense.
 
Airport
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:05 am

On a slightly related note, it's too bad HA didn't contract their regional flying out to QX. They missed a golden opportunity to call it Hawaiizon Air.  
 
Passedv1
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:14 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 5):
Short answer: no. Also, there is too much overlapping of routes/markets now between the mainland/Alaska and Hawaii. The DOJ would take issue with that. Competition would decrease and that's bad for consumers. There is nothing in the public's best interest about this merger.

There are actually only a relatively few routes that HA and AS overlap on actually. This is why HA is buying the NEO's.

Also, although Alaska has the largest number of flights between the US mainland and Hawaii, it is acutally not one of the larger players in the market.

These two companies even combined are small potatoes. The Justice department wouldn't do anything.
 
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RWA380
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:09 pm

Yes, the new carrier will operate 763's ANC-HND & 330's Flying HNL-ANC-LHR or HNL-SEA-LHR, and 738's HNL-NAN.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:17 pm

Quoting Airport (Reply 23):
They missed a golden opportunity to call it Hawaiizon Air.  



Good one.  
You Sir, are a very funny lady.
 
stlgph
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:53 pm

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 11):
but the share price is irrelevant.

If it was a different group of core investors, then yes. But it's not.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
hnl-jack
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:42 pm

While their routes are quite complimentary, such a merger would provide little benefit in additional revenue generation or economy of scale. And, at the current time each seems to be doing fine on their own. Should that change, there could be reason for the two carriers to sit down at the table, but not now.
 
lhcvg
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:44 pm

Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 24):

My assumption was that even though AS is a relatively small player, their extensive coverage on the West Coast and somewhat inland would give numerous opportunities for a combined carrier to become a dominant player and reduce competition. I might be splitting hairs here, but I figured that would be what would potentially get this deal in trouble.
 
pennphila
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:26 pm

Don't see what the point would be. HA already has a good west coast network. Plus with the a321neo I'm sure that's gonna help. If anything I'd see them work with JetBlue (i kno they do codeshare or something) or someone who has a good east coast network to help bring them in the Hawaii. That just me thinking tho.
 
hiflyeras
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:26 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 29):
My assumption was that even though AS is a relatively small player, their extensive coverage on the West Coast and somewhat inland would give numerous opportunities for a combined carrier to become a dominant player and reduce competition. I might be splitting hairs here, but I figured that would be what would potentially get this deal in trouble.
Quoting LHCVG (Reply 29):
Don't see what the point would be. HA already has a good west coast network. Plus with the a321neo I'm sure that's gonna help. If anything I'd see them work with JetBlue (i kno they do codeshare or something) or someone who has a good east coast network to help bring them in the Hawaii. That just me thinking tho.

The whole point of a AS/HA merger would be that with just a few additional routes added they'd be a major player in the US. You'd have service from Asia/South Pacific to Hawaii/Alaska to the West Coast then on to the East Coast. They'd never be a player on the East coast or Midwest flying north-south but wouldn't want to be.

They'd leap into a strong number five spot as a major...AA, DL, UA, WN then AS/HA. Add or maintain current transcon service from AS/HA current California cities to BOS, NYC, PHL, DCA, RDA, ATL, MCO, FLL and you'd have a killer network!

[Edited 2013-03-27 09:42:58]
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Could A HA/AS Merger Work?

Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:34 pm

I agree the netorks could compliment each other but a merger makes no finanical sense. The airlines could partner up and offer connections all they want and stay independent much easier. We have all just gotten merger crazy!