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enilria
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OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:21 pm

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

NOTE: It appears that something changed this week and now we are seeing flights that are not available for sale such as scheduled charters. Not sure if those will disappear in the future or remain. They are interesting, though.

9K ACK-HYA MAY 18>17 JUN 19>18 JUL 18>17 AUG 18>17 SEP 17>16 OCT 16>15 NOV 15>14 DEC 15>14

9W JFK-BRU MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0

AA MIA-LHR OCT 2>1.9 NOV 2>1.5 DEC 2>1.4

AC ORD-YYZ JUL 7>6 AUG 7>6

AM LAX-LAP JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.3 DEC 0>0.3
AM MCO-MEX JUL 1.4>3 AUG 1.5>1.9
AM MIA-MEX SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3 DEC 3>4

AS OAK-HNL DEC 1.0>0.8
Is this an Apple style charter or a code share misfile?
*AS ORD-PVR MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.1
AS SEA-AKN JUN 0>0.1
AS SEA-BOS JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
AS SJC-HNL DEC 1.0>0.9

AV MIA-CLO MAY 1.0>0.9
AV MIA-CTG MAY 1.0>0.8

AZ JFK-MXP NOV 0.6>1.0 DEC 0.6>1.0

*B6 BOS-HOU JUL 0>0.5 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>2 OCT 0>1.7

BW FLL-POS MAY 0.7>0.6 JUN 0.7>0.6 JUL 0.8>0.6 SEP 0.8>0.7

DE SEA-FRA OCT 0.3>0.1

DL ALB-MSP AUG 2>1.4
DL ATL-GSP JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9 AUG 8>9 SEP 8>9 OCT 8>9 NOV 8>9 DEC 8>9
DL ATL-NAS AUG 1.8>3
DL ATL-TLH JUL 11>10
DL BOS-ATL JUL 12>11
DL CMH-MSP JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5
*DL CVG-GSP JUN 0.8>0.2 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.9>0
DL DTW-GSP JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5 NOV 4>5
DL GRR-MSP JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5
DL HNL-NRT AUG 3>2
DL LAX-SEA JUL 3>2
DL LGA-BGR SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
*DL LGA-BOS JUL 13>12 AUG 14>13 SEP 14>13 OCT 14>13 NOV 14>13
*DL LGA-DEN SEP 2>1.1 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 2>1.3
DL LGA-IAD SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3
DL LGA-ILM OCT 3>2
DL LGA-MCO SEP 7>6 OCT 7>6
DL LGA-MHT SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
DL LGA-ORD NOV 13>11 DEC 11>10
DL LGA-PIT SEP 6>5 OCT 6>5
DL LGA-PWM SEP 5>4
DL LGA-RDU SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8
DL LGA-SRQ NOV 0.1>1.0
DL SLC-BUR JUL 4>3
DL SLC-EUG JUL 3>1.9
DL SLC-OMA JUN 3>1.8 JUL 3>1.8
DL SLC-ONT JUL 5>4
DL SLC-PSC JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4
DL SLC-RAP JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.9

These are all repositions for Apple? Yikes. They just started showing up.
F9 BWI-PHL AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.1
F9 CLE-CVG SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1
F9 CLE-PIT MAY 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.5 NOV 0>0.2
F9 ORD-STL MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1

K5 AHN-BNA MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.7 AUG 3>1.7 SEP 3>1.7 OCT 3>1.7 NOV 3>1.7 DEC 3>1.7
K5 BUR-IPL MAY 0>1.7 JUN 0>1.7 JUL 0>1.7 AUG 0>1.7 SEP 0>1.7 OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7
K5 DAL-HOT MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.9>0
K5 ELD-HOT MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.9>0
K5 HOT-MEM MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.9>0
K5 IPL-BUR MAY 0>1.7 JUN 0>1.7 JUL 0>1.7 AUG 0>1.7 SEP 0>1.7 OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.7 DEC 0>1.7
K5 IPL-SAN MAY 5>1.7 JUN 4>1.7 JUL 5>1.7 AUG 5>1.7 SEP 5>1.7 OCT 5>1.7 NOV 5>1.7 DEC 5>1.7
K5 MEM-MKL MAY 1.7>1.3 AUG 1.7>1.3 OCT 1.7>1.3 NOV 1.7>1.3

KE GUM-ICN MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.2>0 AUG 1.6>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0
KE GUM-KIX MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0
KE GUM-PUS MAY 0.3>0 JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0 NOV 0.3>0 DEC 0.3>0
KE ROR-ICN MAY 0.3>0 JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0 NOV 0.3>0 DEC 0.3>0

More scheduled charters and repositions?
*UA BWI-IAD JUN 0>0.2
*UA BWI-RMS JUN 0>0.3
*UA FCA-ISN MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.3
UA IAD-BWI JUN 0>0.2
*UA IAH-LAW MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.1
*UA IAH-MOT MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.2
*UA ISN-FCA MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.3
*UA LAW-IAH MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.1
*UA MOT-IAH MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.2

US CLT-SJU DEC 3>4
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:54 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):

I could be wrong but are these new routes out of IAH by UA?
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
point2point
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:58 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL LGA-DEN SEP 2>1.1 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 2>1.3

This is probably more likely seasonal, but with some 4 carriers now between DEN-LGA (UA, F9, WN and DL) and some 12-14 daily frequencies...... there does seem to be a limit here. Besides the O&D here which is very strong, even DEN, being the farthest outstation that can have daily service with LGA probably gives it some advantage, especially out west, shows that it isn't immune from the "Sept-Oct - where did all of the airline passengers go?" syndrome. Now.... will this DL decreased level of service remain, or is it just for the slow months?

And thanks for keeping this thread going enilria my friend......

 
 
PHX787
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:02 pm

A weird week for the OAG....

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-GSP JUN 0.8>0.2 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.9>0
DL DTW-GSP JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5 NOV 4>5

Oh look where that one went  
DL, either cut the hub completely or say you're gonna be devoted to routes instead of the usual garble of "CVG being an important hub" blah blah blah.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 CLE-CVG SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
These are all repositions for Apple? Yikes. They just started showing up.

I wonder, but did Apple have this running from DAY when F9 was at DAY?
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
Italianflyer
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:04 pm

Thank you for posting, as always. The F9 and UA (Express) additions are just bizarre. I guess selling seats on Apple equiptment repos makes sense; some at risk $ better than none. On the UA update...ISN-FCA, BWI-IAD, IAH-MOT and listing BWI-RMS seems a bitt off.
 
masseybrown
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:12 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 CLE-CVG SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1

I believe this gives Frontier a monopoly on the CLE-CVG market.  

Edit: I wonder if this means they'll be dropping some of their less-than-daily DEN flights.

[Edited 2013-04-01 08:21:12]
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:34 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL CMH-MSP JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5

Bumping up from the current 5x CRJ now to a mix of 1x M90, 1x E75, 1x CR9, 1x CR7, 1x CRJ for the summer.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-GSP JUN 0.8>0.2 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.8>0 DEC 0.9>0
DL DTW-GSP JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5 NOV 4>5

Pulled from CVG, added to DTW.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL GRR-MSP JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5

Bumping up to 2x M90, 1x A319, 1x E75, 1x CRJ for the summer.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL LGA-DEN SEP 2>1.1 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 2>1.3
Quoting point2point (Reply 2):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL LGA-DEN SEP 2>1.1 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 2>1.3

This is probably more likely seasonal, but with some 4 carriers now between DEN-LGA (UA, F9, WN and DL) and some 12-14 daily frequencies...... there does seem to be a limit here. Besides the O&D here which is very strong, even DEN, being the farthest outstation that can have daily service with LGA probably gives it some advantage, especially out west, shows that it isn't immune from the "Sept-Oct - where did all of the airline passengers go?" syndrome. Now.... will this DL decreased level of service remain, or is it just for the slow months?

And thanks for keeping this thread going enilria my friend......

DL reduced LGA-DEN back to 1x per day during the fall shoulder season in 2012 and during January 2013. It was bumped back up to 2x starting in mid-Feb for peak ski season. This looks to be the same as they did last year.
 
SANFan
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:47 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS OAK-HNL DEC 1.0>0.8
Is this an Apple style charter or a code share misfile?
*AS ORD-PVR MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.1
AS SEA-AKN JUN 0>0.1
AS SEA-BOS JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
AS SJC-HNL DEC 1.0>0.9

The adjustments in the Hawaii markets have been expected and mentioned by AS management; no surprises there.

The SEA-BOS increase for the summer looks to be a response to B6 which has also scheduled triple-daily service in the market this summer. A bit more pushing and shoving between AS and Blue?

It will be interesting to see what that ORD-PVR route is all about. (For starters, once a week service in the summer seems a bit oddly timed to me.)

bb
 
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coronado
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:02 pm

In the case of Delta we all have to keep in mind that their plans are to reduce their overall fleet by over 200 aircraft by 2015, about 15%, while maintaining capacity even. A route that used to have 3 CRJ100/200's will transition over to 2 CR9's daily. A route that was struggling to be profitable with 2 CRJ/day will have to justify the station costs for operating 1 CR9/day. Just the realities of Jet Fuel still costing over the equivalent of USD127/barrel. Over the next 3-4 years we will see not just Delta but also AA+LCC and UA/CO dramatically reduce frequencies while up-gauging their average seat count per departure. I think we will be seeing more and more frequency reductions in enilria's much appreciated reporting.
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FlyingSicilian
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:02 pm

Interesting if UA startes LAW out of IAH. Fort Sill traffic or is their new oil and gas up that way? I'd have though Wichita Falls might get service before LAW.

Whynot Minot...LOL
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kcrwflyer
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:05 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LGA-BGR SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
*DL LGA-BOS JUL 13>12 AUG 14>13 SEP 14>13 OCT 14>13 NOV 14>13
*DL LGA-DEN SEP 2>1.1 OCT 2>1.0 NOV 2>1.3
DL LGA-IAD SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3
DL LGA-ILM OCT 3>2
DL LGA-MCO SEP 7>6 OCT 7>6
DL LGA-MHT SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
DL LGA-ORD NOV 13>11 DEC 11>10
DL LGA-PIT SEP 6>5 OCT 6>5
DL LGA-PWM SEP 5>4
DL LGA-RDU SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8
DL LGA-SRQ NOV 0.1>1.0

Thats -9 flights. Will they just be sitting on these slots or potentially opening up new cities, I wonder..
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:10 pm

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 9):

I agree, but this puts the UA is ignoring IAH argument to sleep finally.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
FWAERJ
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:31 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA IAH-LAW MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.1

Maybe LAW will get their second carrier back. Flew in there for a family reunion in 2008 on an Eagle SAAB from DFW... one of the tiniest terminals that I have been in.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:31 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 7):
The SEA-BOS increase for the summer looks to be a response to B6 which has also scheduled triple-daily service in the market this summer. A bit more pushing and shoving between AS and Blue?

How could they be triple daily from BOS-SEA?

How big is this long market?
 
ScottB
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:32 pm

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 10):
Thats -9 flights. Will they just be sitting on these slots or potentially opening up new cities, I wonder

Probably just sitting on the slots. September & October are typically very weak for traffic, especially since the kids are back in school and those are some of the most pleasant months in the Northeast.
 
MAH4546
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:41 pm

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 9):
Interesting if UA startes LAW out of IAH. Fort Sill traffic or is their new oil and gas up that way? I'd have though Wichita Falls might get service before LAW.

UA is not starting LAW, nor Minot, from Houston. It is scheduled charters appearing in OAG, nothing more.

In terms of adding new destinations, UA absoultely continues to ignore IAH.
a.
 
Tdan
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:42 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
More scheduled charters and repositions?
*UA BWI-IAD JUN 0>0.2
*UA BWI-RMS JUN 0>0.3
*UA FCA-ISN MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.3
UA IAD-BWI JUN 0>0.2
*UA IAH-LAW MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.1
*UA IAH-MOT MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.2
*UA ISN-FCA MAY 0>0.2 JUN 0>0.3
*UA LAW-IAH MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.1
*UA MOT-IAH MAY 0>0.3 JUN 0>0.2

These are all charters that seem to have been inadvertently loaded outside the 'charter' flight number range. Expect them to be pulled next load. UA has been doing IAH-MOT for Hess for years and the FCA-ISN charters are also oil and gas related. BWI-RMS are reoccurring military charters.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:44 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS SEA-AKN JUN 0>0.1

AS is going to start flying non-stop from Seattle to King Salmon?
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 15):

and how do you know?
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
MaverickM11
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:53 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 18):
and how do you know?

There's no evidence to the contrary. When UA extricates its head from its rear re: IAH you'll know it.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MAH4546
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:15 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 18):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 15):


and how do you know?

Can you give me a list of what new destinations UA has added from Houston lately?
a.
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 20):

LAW and MOT, enliria said they could be charters, but they could be new routes at the same time.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
ChiefTowel
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:17 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
KE GUM-ICN MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.2>0 AUG 1.6>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0
KE GUM-KIX MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0
KE GUM-PUS MAY 0.3>0 JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0 NOV 0.3>0 DEC 0.3>0
KE ROR-ICN MAY 0.3>0 JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0 NOV 0.3>0 DEC 0.3>0

So KE is pulling out of GUM and ROR? Seems strange as the tourist trade seemed strong when I was there last year...perhaps the Marianas and Palau are facing competition from elsewhere...
"No one in my family has ever seen a psychiatrist...except, of course, when they were institutionalized." - BED
 
SANFan
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 13):
How could they be triple daily from BOS-SEA?
How big is this long market?

You got me -- a total of 6 daily r/t between SEA and BOS, even in the summer, sounds just a bit much to me as well! Sounds like one of those lose-lose, "let's see who can lose the most money" scenarios.

Also, AFAIK, AS is kind of tight on a/c this year already, unless of course they decide to hang on to a few of their scheduled a/c returns. But even so, this sounds like a strange use of their resources....

bb
 
MAH4546
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:26 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 21):
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 20):


LAW and MOT, enliria said they could be charters, but they could be new routes at the same time.

No. They are charters.
a.
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 24):

I said I could be wrong, but maybe UA is satisfied with where IAH stands today.
Always look on the bright side of Life!
 
steex
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:33 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 21):
LAW and MOT, enliria said they could be charters, but they could be new routes at the same time.

If UA was going to open a new station at LAW, it wouldn't be to operate once per week flights from IAH against AA's multiple daily flights to DFW. This has absolutely none of the signs of a new scheduled route.
 
FlyingSicilian
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 15):
UA is not starting LAW, nor Minot, from Houston. It is scheduled charters appearing in OAG, nothing more.



Thanks, Charters makes more sense, especially without any formal announcements.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 15):
In terms of adding new destinations, UA absoultely continues to ignore IAH.

Very true
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:20 pm

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 27):

Disagree, maybe UA is happy where IAH stands.
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:32 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 1):
I could be wrong but are these new routes out of IAH by UA?

You are wrong. As I noted at the top, starting this week non-sale flights started appearing in the schedule feed. I think they are interesting, so while I could probably figure out how to get rid of them, my initial thought is to keep them as they are real flights. If people really hate them I could probably dig in and see if they are denoted with some sort of identifying mark.

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 11):
I agree, but this puts the UA is ignoring IAH argument to sleep finally.

This means little. These were always there. They just appeared this week.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
Oh look where that one went  
DL, either cut the hub completely or say you're gonna be devoted to routes instead of the usual garble of "CVG being an important hub" blah blah blah.

Agreed. It's a lingering death.

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 3):
I wonder, but did Apple have this running from DAY when F9 was at DAY?

What was the point of opening CLE and such if they are still doing these ferry flights? That's a ton of them. They really should be able to schedule the airline to not routinely need ferries. They cost so much money.

Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 4):
On the UA update...ISN-FCA, BWI-IAD, IAH-MOT and listing BWI-RMS seems a bitt off.
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 15):
UA is not starting LAW, nor Minot, from Houston. It is scheduled charters appearing in OAG, nothing more.
Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 9):
Interesting if UA startes LAW out of IAH. Fort Sill traffic or is their new oil and gas up that way? I'd have though Wichita Falls might get service before LAW.

Whynot Minot...LOL
Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 21):
LAW and MOT, enliria said they could be charters, but they could be new routes at the same time.
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 24):
No. They are charters.
Quoting SANFan (Reply 7):
It will be interesting to see what that ORD-PVR route is all about. (For starters, once a week service in the summer seems a bit oddly timed to me.)
Quoting Coronado (Reply 8):
I think we will be seeing more and more frequency reductions in enilria's much appreciated reporting.
Quoting Tdan (Reply 16):
These are all charters that seem to have been inadvertently loaded outside the 'charter' flight number range. Expect them to be pulled next load. UA has been doing IAH-MOT for Hess for years and the FCA-ISN charters are also oil and gas related. BWI-RMS are reoccurring military charters.

Since these charters/ferries appeared for UA and F9 and probably AS the same week, I don't think it is a filing mistake. I think they have always submitted them to OAG. Why they send flights to OAG that can't be sold is confusing, but perhaps it's simply easier for them to have a single schedule. It appears that OAG changed how they deal with these flights. Since there is no inventory to sell on these flights they would never appear in Expedia/etc.

What's in LAW? Who would charter that every week I wonder?
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:40 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
What's in LAW? Who would charter that every week I wonder?

Fort Sill and Goodyear.
a.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 6:40 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 7):
The SEA-BOS increase for the summer looks to be a response to B6 which has also scheduled triple-daily service in the market this summer. A bit more pushing and shoving between AS and Blue?
Quoting SANFan (Reply 23):
You got me -- a total of 6 daily r/t between SEA and BOS, even in the summer, sounds just a bit much to me as well! Sounds like one of those lose-lose, "let's see who can lose the most money" scenarios.

Also, AFAIK, AS is kind of tight on a/c this year already, unless of course they decide to hang on to a few of their scheduled a/c returns. But even so, this sounds like a strange use of their resources....

Yeah, I am puzzled by this one too. I checked quickly and it appears that the 3rd AS flight is a ~3PM departure from SEA, RON at BOS and return in the AM within an hour of the existing red-eye turn. I would have liked to see a mid-morning departure and a late evening return from BOS, say ~8PM. Allows a full day in BOS or an almost-full day somewhere else in New England. Problem with that is there is no onward connections beyond SEA on the return.

No way 6x daily on SEA-BOS is viable long-term. Summer cruise season ex-SEA might push demand to ~4x but this is strange.

IIRC AS was able to extend some of the 734 leases on a short-term basis in the past so perhaps it is planning to keep them a bit longer.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:31 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 28):
Disagree, maybe UA is happy where IAH stands.

Not to derail to much [/trainwreck] but IAH was one of only three major US airports to lose traffic last year


Enrilia, thanks as always for doing these.
Does this mean flights like Houston to Luanda now show up on the normal OAG list?
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:39 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
You are wrong. As I noted at the top, starting this week non-sale flights started appearing in the schedule feed. I think they are interesting, so while I could probably figure out how to get rid of them, my initial thought is to keep them as they are real flights. If people really hate them I could probably dig in and see if they are denoted with some sort of identifying mark.

I love your OAG updates, but I think excluding these non-sale flights would be best as to not cause any confusion. They're charters and by definition could fly from any point A to point B and are mostly different each week (If OAG took a different week's snapshot each month, the charters would be different). For most carriers, they have a range of flight numbers that are used for charters and this is the easiest way to figure out the route's purpose. It is interesting that these started to show up! If you continue to include them, it might be nice to add a notation indicating that they are charter flights and not scheduled, open for sale flight.

Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
What's in LAW? Who would charter that every week I wonder?

These are repositioning/ferry flights for a Ft. Sill military charter.
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:33 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 30):
Quoting enilria (Reply 29):
What's in LAW? Who would charter that every week I wonder?

Fort Sill and Goodyear.

Interesting

Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 32):
Enrilia, thanks as always for doing these.

 
Quoting FlyingSicilian (Reply 32):
Does this mean flights like Houston to Luanda now show up on the normal OAG list?

If it's not there then it doesn't. Not sure why these show up!

Quoting Tdan (Reply 33):
I love your OAG updates, but I think excluding these non-sale flights would be best as to not cause any confusion.

Probably true, although they all appeared at once and there are only about a dozen for the whole of the U.S. airline industry so if they remain they will only show up when they are changed.

Quoting Tdan (Reply 33):
It is interesting that these started to show up!

It's interesting that the carriers file them with OAG.

Quoting Tdan (Reply 33):
If you continue to include them, it might be nice to add a notation indicating that they are charter flights and not scheduled, open for sale flight.

So far I have not seen a field that I can capture to block/mark them. Will need to look more.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AS ORD-PVR MAY 0>0.1 JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.1

The EQP is a 73H which AS also flies to SEA from ORD, so it appears they are running this as a scheduled charter for Apple/Funjet/whoever. It's strange because it is so far from the rest of their network.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:42 pm

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 31):
No way 6x daily on SEA-BOS is viable long-term. Summer cruise season ex-SEA might push demand to ~4x but this is strange.

IIRC AS was able to extend some of the 734 leases on a short-term basis in the past so perhaps it is planning to keep them a bit longer.

True, and I had figured since late last year that AS might very well end up keeping some of those returns around for a while longer. But needless to say, I was hoping for some other uses for the "extra" planes rather than something like this...  

Just for the sake of the discussion, I did look up the DOT numbers for 3Q12 (last Jul-Aug-Sep) for SEA-BOS O&D - TL of 1139 pax/day which =~ 570 PDEW.

Oh well, just another interesting sub-plot in the ongoing AS story.

bb
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:49 pm

I'd think that IAH-MOT (and/or IAH-ISN) could possibly be done, and at a profit, given the oil industry connections, but if the highest paying passengers are happy flying charters or connecting, then maybe not. I understand the distance is long (1299sm to MOT, 1330sm to ISN), but it's not unheard of for an ER4, and this is the aircraft UA is currently using for the charters. UA has a few routes of this length already with ER4 equipment. I would imagine it's only a matter of time until one of the North Dakota cities gets a scheduled nonstop to IAH.

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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:25 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 17):
AS is going to start flying non-stop from Seattle to King Salmon?

I would assume for a very short time for the fishing harvest and whatnot. I think July is one of the big catching times.
Reeve Aleutian used to fly Cold Bay-Seattle nonstop with Lockheed Electras in early '80s. So I guess there may be a short-time demand for a SW Alaska-SEA route.
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:36 pm

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 37):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 17):
AS is going to start flying non-stop from Seattle to King Salmon?

I would assume for a very short time for the fishing harvest and whatnot. I think July is one of the big catching times.
Reeve Aleutian used to fly Cold Bay-Seattle nonstop with Lockheed Electras in early '80s. So I guess there may be a short-time demand for a SW Alaska-SEA route.

AS has never done this AFAIK, so I wanted to see if an AS insider could confirm it.

Western did SEA-ADQ with an Electra until about 1972 also.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Mon Apr 01, 2013 10:54 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 38):
Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 37):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 17):
AS is going to start flying non-stop from Seattle to King Salmon?

I would assume for a very short time for the fishing harvest and whatnot. I think July is one of the big catching times.
Reeve Aleutian used to fly Cold Bay-Seattle nonstop with Lockheed Electras in early '80s. So I guess there may be a short-time demand for a SW Alaska-SEA route.

AS has never done this AFAIK, so I wanted to see if an AS insider could confirm it.

Western did SEA-ADQ with an Electra until about 1972 also.

It's probably another scheduled charter many of which popped up this week.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:33 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
K5 AHN-BNA MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.7 AUG 3>1.7 SEP 3>1.7 OCT 3>1.7 NOV 3>1.7 DEC 3>1.7

This is an Aprils fool joke correct? K5 Wings of Alaska at BNA. You did post it on it on April 1
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:39 am

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 40):
K5 AHN-BNA MAY 3>1.7 JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.7 AUG 3>1.7 SEP 3>1.7 OCT 3>1.7 NOV 3>1.7 DEC 3>1.7

This is an Aprils fool joke correct? K5 Wings of Alaska at BNA. You did post it on it on April 1

Nope. That's SeaPort Airlines that also operates as Wings of Alaska out of JNU. They do in fact do Nashville-Athens, GA.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:45 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 17):
AS is going to start flying non-stop from Seattle to King Salmon?

Sounds like AS is catering to the annual event known locally as combat fishing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQyAxUjUb68 A lot of non-residents fly in each year for the event.
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:54 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA BWI-IAD JUN 0>0.2
UA IAD-BWI JUN 0>0.2

While these may be charters, UA has flown this before. I remember flights in the late 90s on J31 express a/c.
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Tue Apr 02, 2013 3:27 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 35):
Oh well, just another interesting sub-plot in the ongoing AS story.

There is clearly more capacity than demand this summer on SEA-BOS. So sounds like just a little good old fashioned hardball between two airlines. Nothing too out of the ordinary here, especially since B6 decided to throw their hat into the SEA-ANC ring.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 7):
It will be interesting to see what that ORD-PVR route is all about. (For starters, once a week service in the summer seems a bit oddly timed to me.)

Not a mistake. Just charter flying for Apple.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:09 pm

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 40):
This is an Aprils fool joke correct? K5 Wings of Alaska at BNA. You did post it on it on April 1

Last year I posted some April Fools stuff, but this year I decided not to. Maybe next year.  
Quoting planeguy727 (Reply 43):
While these may be charters, UA has flown this before. I remember flights in the late 90s on J31 express a/c.

True, but I think these set up the RMS military charter.

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 44):
Quoting SANFan (Reply 7):
It will be interesting to see what that ORD-PVR route is all about. (For starters, once a week service in the summer seems a bit oddly timed to me.)

Not a mistake. Just charter flying for Apple.

Interesting. You'd think F9 would fly that. Weird for AS to fly it.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA

Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:53 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 41):
Nope. That's SeaPort Airlines that also operates as Wings of Alaska out of JNU. They do in fact do Nashville-Athens,
Quoting enilria (Reply 45):
Last year I posted some April Fools stuff, but this year I decided not to. Maybe next year.


K5 http://www.seaportair.com/route-map.php does in fact offer service at BNA. This one caught me by surprise; and I spend quite a bit of time around the greater Nashville area. I know the Wings of Alaska component quite well.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.