smbukas
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Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:20 am

It is a very interesting development for me.

Wizz Air to launch 4 routes to DWC airport starting winter 2013. 3x weekly to BUC and SOF, 4x weekly to IEV and BUD. They should become first scheduled passenger operator to DWC.

DWC to become a low cost alternative for Dubai in time being?

Very interesting development for DWC and for Wizz Air. Routes to DWC to become longest sectors for Wizz Air, today they do not operate any flights longer then 3h30min. And that is a huge step for them outside EU, after they stepped in to Ukraine, Georgia, Israel and indent to develop in Russia.

Those routes to become competition for flydubai.
 
JU068
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:30 am

It would be good if there was someone who flew on both flydubai and Wizz Air and who could compare their product on such longer flights.

From Bucharest they will have to compete with both flydubai and Tarom, each airline has three weekly flights. From Kiev flydubai has daily flights while Ukraine International Airlines has five weekly.

I hope there is considerable O&D from both Kiev and Bucharest unless they will be crushed.
 
Pe@rson
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:39 am

Quoting JU068 (Reply 1):
I hope there is considerable O&D from both Kiev and Bucharest unless they will be crushed.

We must assume that they will, per their other routes, stimulate new demand from lower fares and thereby increase the overall size of the markets.
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JU068
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:21 am

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 2):

Yes but flydubai, a lowcost with relatively low fares, already flies to Bucharest and Kiev so they are not bringing a revolutionary concept to these markets. That is why I am asking. Sofia and Budapest make sense though.
 
smbukas
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:51 am

If we do not look at competition on route-by-route basis, but more globally, it seems Wizz Air strategy is to look for new markets as they are getting more and more competition from FR on routes intra-EU. FR is big in Poland, Hungary, Lithuania and W6 and FR compete on most of the routes.

FR do not operate out of EU Open Skies, so W6 sees opportunity here. Might be, flydubai is way much "better" competitor then FR. On long sectors costs are very similar, W6 has a strong brand presence in Ukraine, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania.

W6 got permission from Hungary side to fly to LED and MOW but they haven't announced flights yet. Is the problem in Russia regulatory side or they can't find suitable airports in MOW?
 
Skyeurope
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:21 am

Flights were bookable for about 60 Euros (!!) oneway 2 hours ago.

Seems like they don't know, for how much they want to sell their flights.

30 Minutes ago, they made a system update, prices went up to 179EUR and now it's about 100 for exactly the same flights.

[Edited 2013-04-03 03:26:05]

[Edited 2013-04-03 03:26:19]
 
gilesdavies
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:20 pm

Great move by Wizzair, and clearly capitalising on their location in Central Europe, where they can offer direct flights to Dubai with their A320's.

Just looked on Great Circle Maps and the longest route is BUD-DWC which is around 2500 miles. This is a similar length to easyJet's longest route which is MAN-SSH, so I think this can definately work for them. Dubai is popular with everyone in Europe in the winter months so should fill the seats no problems.

I have noticed a few photo's of Wizzair's latest A320's to be delivered with Sharklets, these will definately come in handy on these longer sectors for range and fuel savings.

It is interesting how we are now seeing the European Los Cost Carriers doing sectors as longer distant as they operate in the USA, flying coast to coast which is around 2400 miles LAX-PHL.

Considering the length of the flight, they are selling tickets for £140 Return BUD-DWC! Im here in the UK, and seriously considering using them, and just get an additional flight LTN-BUD and reckon I could get there for £250 all in! The major carriers in the winter months from the UK are close to £500!
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:39 pm

In that case will DWC compete with SHJ ? It's still the same catchment area, and maybe with a better position for Abu Dhabi travellers  

What about landing fees and handling... not to say slot restrictions as there are any for the moment ?!
 
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TS-IOR
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 2:56 pm

When zooming on Google Maps you see numerous aircraft at the tarmac there (DWC) most of them 4 engined... are these all cargos ?! Where is the PAX terminal, i don't see any jetway ?!
 
SCQ83
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:22 pm

Really interesting. NAS Air of Saudi Arabia is also starting DWC to JED, DMM and RUH, but no word on whether their will continue flying to all DXB, AUH and SHJ.
 
Cassi
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 4:59 pm

I am glad that Wizzair is expanding its network in the region, but let's not get fooled by the 200 EUR or so introductory price (for a return ticket). Currently BEG-DXB on flyDubai costs about 490 EUR (VIE-DXB on EK is about 560-600 EUR). So a regular ticket price north of 400 EUR wouldn't come as a big surprise.
 
kl911
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:14 pm

Quoting Cassi (Reply 10):
I am glad that Wizzair is expanding its network in the region, but let's not get fooled by the 200 EUR or so introductory price (for a return ticket). Currently BEG-DXB on flyDubai costs about 490 EUR (VIE-DXB on EK is about 560-600 EUR). So a regular ticket price north of 400 EUR wouldn't come as a big surprise.

Well, BUD-TLV is a 3.5 hours flight, and is available for 45 Euro one way. Looking at that Dubai can be offered for 199 Euro, which I think is a much more normal fare then 490 Euro.

A quick look at AMS-DXB for 370 Euro tells us BUD-DWC on a lowcost should be priced much lower and will indeed serve a new market, the lowcost holiday fans.
 
JU068
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:16 pm

Quoting Cassi (Reply 10):
Currently BEG-DXB on flyDubai costs about 490 EUR

Belgrade was €370 initially but then the price started to rise once the special fares issued by BEG expired. I am sure the same will happen here.

Let's also be realistic, this is almost a six hour flight. No one should expect to fly for €200.
 
ely747
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:36 pm

So what is going to fuel such traffic and fill so many seats between BUD-DWC? it's4x weekly right? QR serves BUD daily but most of it are connecting pax. Are Wizz targetting holiday makers by opening not so cheap destination? I ask, as I understand it, the UAE gov makes it easier to obtain visa for people flying with EK. All the contries listed above are not on the visa waiver program of UAE.

[Edited 2013-04-03 11:55:22]
 
SCQ83
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:56 pm

Quoting ely747 (Reply 13):
So what is going to fuel so many seats between BUD-DWC? it's4x weekly right? QR serves BUD daily but most of it are connecting pax. Are Wizz targetting holiday makers by opening not so cheap destination? I ask, as I understand it, the UAE gov makes it easier to obtain visa for people flying with EK.

Dubai is cheap when you compare it to other major cities in Europe. Dubai got much cheaper after the downturn (hotel prices collapsed) and IMO it has also became more "budget-friendly" (i.e. the new metro that allows you to surf the city without a rental car if you want, new budget options like the Easyhotel...).

Dubai is extremely popular among Russians (just look at the number of carriers and destinations UAE-Russia... really impressive), so I assume it is somehow the same for Eastern Europeans.
 
JU068
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:58 pm

Quoting ely747 (Reply 13):

Qatar linked Budapest with Zagreb so their passengers are not exclusively from Hungary, I guess that makes daily flights viable.
This flight might also be interesting for people living in northern Serbia. There are roughly 7,000 to 10,000 (unofficial numbers) of Serbs working in the UAE. I am sure they might attract some Slovaks as well.
 
ely747
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:14 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 15):

I do know there is some labour force out there but did not realize this would be such a significant factor as you mentioned, specially taking into acount Serbia. I was under the understanding it was a direct flight so it makes sense now.

Well, Slovakia cannot afford to export its own pax to neoghbouring airports any more. We've been fueling both VIE and BUD after NE gone bancrupt. The situation with BTS traffic is well bad and see no quick fix ...
 
ely747
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:29 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 14):

Ok let's say it has become cheaper but what you need to realize is the fact that people in Central Europe have tendency to travel on hols once a year and in most cases Croatia / Greece make it for obvious destinations (by car). Leave alone Bulgaria and Romania where income is the lowest in the EU. I'm just trying to look at Dubai from the perspective of regional purchasing power and local customes.We're talking about year round flights with decent number of seats to be sold in addition to already established air links offering transfer beyond DXB. Rather I'm begining to think that Wizz is counting on its own pax connecting via BUD, OTP and SOF.



[Edited 2013-04-03 12:42:55]
 
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scbriml
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:30 pm

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 8):
When zooming on Google Maps you see numerous aircraft at the tarmac there (DWC) most of them 4 engined... are these all cargos ?!

Yes, they are nearly all freighters. The current Google Earth image shows:

2 x An-124
9 x Il-76
4 x 747
1 x C-130

And a couple of 737s.
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debonair
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:46 pm

Quoting smbukas (Thread starter):
Very interesting development for DWC and for Wizz Air.

Will be interesting to see, how a ULTRA LOW COST airline will do on these longer routes - WIZZ AIR even charges for hand luggage...
 
ely747
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:53 pm

Quoting debonair (Reply 19):

Web site says small cabin bag goes free. Large cabin bag you have to fork out €10 but yes in this case Wizz Air got more audacity than MOL.
 
smbukas
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:50 am

Quoting debonair (Reply 19):
Will be interesting to see, how a ULTRA LOW COST airline will do on these longer routes - WIZZ AIR even charges for hand luggage...

I was very sceptical when they introduced this concept half a year ago. But this concept fully works for them. You pay 10EUR, but there are now ugly mess at the gate with checking every bag size, etc. - paid cabin bag size is bigger then regular airlines and no weight limit. AFAIK, this new concept increased their revenues - many more people no decide to purchase check-in baggage. I do not see problems why it should work differently in long routes - 10EUR is almost nothing.
 
JU068
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:21 am

Quoting ely747 (Reply 17):

You are right to look at it from that point of view. Anyone who is wealthy, or wealthy enough to go on holidays to Dubai, will not fly on Wizz Air. Especially not when you have Turkish Airlines offering competitive fares and decent frequencies from all of these places.

I wonder if they got some subsidies to launch these routes? I am sure DWC is trying to attract as many airlines as it can.
 
smbukas
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:41 am

Quoting JU068 (Reply 22):
You are right to look at it from that point of view. Anyone who is wealthy, or wealthy enough to go on holidays to Dubai, will not fly on Wizz Air. Especially not when you have Turkish Airlines offering competitive fares and decent frequencies from all of these places.

But, from other perspective, flydubai has a success in Eastern Europe. I believe, the main traffic for Wizz Air will be VFR traffic - many people working in UAE. Leisure traffic to be an additional segment - fun thing with leisure traffic is that even if you are able to spend holidays in expensive destinations, anyway you are trying to spend as less money for travel as possible.

I went to Maldives one year ago from Germany. 100% LF in Y and 30% seats taken in C. When you are travelling from your own pocket, fare is most important aspect.
 
JU068
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:46 am

Quoting smbukas (Reply 23):

But flydubai has an interline agreement with Emirates which makes their life much easier. At the same time they have inflight entertainment which is a very good thing on such a long flight, also if you are flying from Serbia your children fly for free. All parents have to do is pay the taxes and voila. I somehow think that the overall experience with flydubai is incomparably better than with Wizz Air.
 
ely747
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:48 am

Quoting JU068 (Reply 22):

As you mentioned above if you have a bit of cash to splash out, Wizz Air is not the brand you want to identify yourself with. In addiotion let's not forget that (budget) Europeans prefer to go on weekend breaks quite a lot which means they travel for a shorter period more frequently. That would not work for Dubai, you need at least a week there and that makes your stay more costly overall. Lastly, if I want to travel to Italy or Spain all I need is to grab my ID card, to Dubai one must be in possession of a pasport and a valid visa too which lot of retired people might find a bit annoying.

I'm not saying it won't work for Wizz Air, just trying to understand how DWC would work for a typical Wizz Air flyer. The number of seats offered vs. normal market behaviour

However Kiev is the right choice.

Subsidies to non UAE carrier? I think not ....
 
JU068
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:53 am

Quoting ely747 (Reply 25):
to Dubai one must be in possession of a pasport and a valid visa too which lot of retired people might find a bit annoying.

I know for a fact that Emirates' offices around the world take care of your visa, at least they do so in Belgrade and Nicosia. This makes your life so much easier as you don't have to run the UAE embassy (if there is one in your country) with all the papers and so on.
 
photoshooter
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:33 am

Good move by Wizzair! I believe I read that Nas Air will follow W6 and operate flights to DWC as well.
EK will stay at DXB for the next 10 years, then they will probably move to DWC.

Quoting ely747 (Reply 25):
In addiotion let's not forget that (budget) Europeans prefer to go on weekend breaks quite a lot which means they travel for a shorter period more frequently. That would not work for Dubai, you need at least a week there and that makes your stay more costly overall.

I think that's more a story of the past... FR and EZY are doing pretty well on flights from The UK, West-Europe and North-Europe to Spain, the Canaries, Morocco, Greece, .... These passengers don't go to Tenerife for a weekend, they stay there for a week or two and don't care if it's Thomas Cook or Ryanair/Easyjet bringing them.

W6 seems to be a big success in (East) Europe, the other remaining options to fly to DXB such as EK or national carriers are getting too expensive for people who are used to fly with LCCs. If you could save up to a few hundred of dollars just to sit in a smaller aircraft, I believe many people will ignore the downsides of LCCs. Besides, you only spend a few hours in the plane, facing a terrible seat pitch  .
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Cassi
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:21 pm

In this article Wizzair's CEO is clearly promising more new routes between Dubai and Europe:

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-n...-ready-with-cheap-travel-to-europe

Quoting ely747 (Reply 13):
ask, as I understand it, the UAE gov makes it easier to obtain visa for people flying with EK.

Obtaining a visa is still mandatory for citizens of these 4 countries (Hu, Ro, Bg and Ukr), but it is an easy process which can be completed quickly by submitting a web form. EK passengers get a small discount (roughly $100 -> $70, not a big deal).

If Dubai really wants to reach the 160M passengers/year capacity at DWC, it must support foreign LCC's in a big way. I expect more relaxed visa requirements and large promotions targetting LCC passengers in the near future.
 
JU068
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 1:32 pm

Quoting Cassi (Reply 28):
If Dubai really wants to reach the 160M passengers/year capacity at DWC, it must support foreign LCC's in a big way. I expect more relaxed visa requirements and large promotions targetting LCC passengers in the near future.

I am quite sure that when they announced their goal of reaching 160 million passengers they were expecting Emirates to move its hub there- not by attracting more and more low cost carriers. It will be interesting to see how interested the airport would be to attract low cost carriers once legacies start to announce flights.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 3:09 pm

Quoting ely747 (Reply 17):
Ok let's say it has become cheaper but what you need to realize is the fact that people in Central Europe have tendency to travel on hols once a year and in most cases Croatia / Greece make it for obvious destinations (by car). Leave alone Bulgaria and Romania where income is the lowest in the EU. I'm just trying to look at Dubai from the perspective of regional purchasing power and local customes. Rather I'm begining to think that Wizz is counting on connecting pax via BUD, OTP and SOF.
Quoting ely747 (Reply 25):
As you mentioned above if you have a bit of cash to splash out, Wizz Air is not the brand you want to identify yourself with. In addiotion let's not forget that (budget) Europeans prefer to go on weekend breaks quite a lot which means they travel for a shorter period more frequently. That would not work for Dubai, you need at least a week there and that makes your stay more costly overall. Lastly, if I want to travel to Italy or Spain all I need is to grab my ID card, to Dubai one must be in possession of a pasport and a valid visa too which lot of retired people might find a bit annoying.

I'm not saying it won't work for Wizz Air, just trying to understand how DWC would work for a typical Wizz Air flyer. The number of seats offered vs. normal market behaviour

However Kiev is the right choice.

Subsidies to non UAE carrier? I think not ....

I think you are taking too many assumptions about which person flies each carrier or go on holiday... Wizzair will be the only available option to Dubai from some of those places, they might stimulate demand (being the actual "national carrier" in Hungary...). I know some of those countries are among the poorest within Europe, but they already have holiday destinations from there as well (sometimes mixed with VFR, like Spain or Italy), so there is an elite and middle-upper class that flies on holiday (likely to have passports). And as other have said, probably there are big communities of Romanians, Ukranians... working and living in the UAE. Btw, the Wizzair flights and position of Eastern Europe are particularly good for long-weekends in Dubai.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 29):
I am quite sure that when they announced their goal of reaching 160 million passengers they were expecting Emirates to move its hub there- not by attracting more and more low cost carriers. It will be interesting to see how interested the airport would be to attract low cost carriers once legacies start to announce flights.

EK/FZ are expected to move to DWC in the long run. Dubai International can't expand much (it is surrounded by urban areas) and if Dubai keeps growing, it is a good piece of urban redevelopment in the middle of the city. I wouldn't be surprised in 10 years we will see "everything" at DWC; just look at what Dubai and DXB was only 10 years ago!

Overall I think it is interesting how Dubai is stretching the reach of European low-cost airlines. FlyDubai flying to a good number of Eastern European destinations, Norwegian to Scandinavia, now Wizzair, and even Transavia to AMS! I wonder if we could even see EZS flying to DWC from BSL or GVA.
 
sierra3tango
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:05 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 30):
EK/FZ are expected to move to DWC in the long run. Dubai International can't expand much (it is surrounded by urban areas) and if Dubai keeps growing, it is a good piece of urban redevelopment in the middle of the city. I wouldn't be surprised in 10 years we will see "everything" at DWC; just look at what Dubai and DXB was only 10 years ago!

DWC was initiated for two principle reasons

1) DXB would run out of space with the meteoric rise of EK
2) Sea / Air Cargo

The first is obvious and needs no explanation
The second is an old idea regenerated. Those who know the Jebel Ali hotel will agree it is not of any great architectual beauty.
It was built at roughly the same time as Jebel Ali Port to act as a airport hotel.

The idea was and again IS sea / air trans shipment. A new bridge has been built over the Emirates road (E311) which links one 'free zone' (Jebel Ali Port, JAFZA) to a new 'free zone' (DWC) without the need for cargo customs clearance or any other hindrance (customs / duty wise). EK are moving their freighter fleet to DWC to expand this market. The idea is the container is offloaded the vessel in port and is trucked maybe 25kms up the road on a flat bed to DWC where it is unstuffed and packed for airfreight

That's why you can see on Google freighters. Its not just about PAX.

Wizz, assuming the new route flourishes, will have grandfather rights when the big changeover (DXB to DWC) comes

There is one small fly in this ointment which is DWC is about 110 kms from AUH. ATC is a problem yet to be resolved
 
SCQ83
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 4:14 pm

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 31):
There is one small fly in this ointment which is DWC is about 110 kms from AUH. ATC is a problem yet to be resolved

I know... I am not familiar with UAE politics, but if common sense would prevail, with good (high-speed train) connections to both Abu Dhabi and Dubai, both AUH and DXB could become redundant (the same way having EY and EK next door does not make much sense).
 
sierra3tango
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:34 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 32):
Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 31):
There is one small fly in this ointment which is DWC is about 110 kms from AUH. ATC is a problem yet to be resolved

I know... I am not familiar with UAE politics, but if common sense would prevail, with good (high-speed train) connections to both Abu Dhabi and Dubai, both AUH and DXB could become redundant (the same way having EY and EK next door does not make much sense).





Common sense prevail - it doesn't & it won't

DWC for both EK & EY now that would be a MEGA hub

SHJ will in all probability lose a lot of freight business out of DWC.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Wizz Air To Dubai Al Maktoum Airport

Thu Apr 04, 2013 7:13 pm

Quoting sierra3tango (Reply 33):
Common sense prevail - it doesn't & it won't

DWC for both EK & EY now that would be a MEGA hub

SHJ will in all probability lose a lot of freight business out of DWC.

EK is what it is today, because common sense has prevailed. As someone has mentioned in another thread, EK is a number-run airline, not just a vanity project.

For me it is obvious that it is not sustainable for the UAE to have two mega-airlines that are competing for the same market (Air Arabia or flyDubai have their niches) no matter how are much EY is backed by its government.

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