stratosphere
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Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:48 pm

So apparently two African American men are filing a federal discrimination lawsuit against USAIR for denying them boarding in first class until they changed their clothes asking them to remove their baseball caps and change into slacks instead of jeans. They also stated there were a white and a filipino that were allowed on with jeans. Well these two rocket scientists and their equally inept lawyer seem to forget is they both were on a BUDDY PASS given to them by an employee.. There are rules and dress codes when on an employee pass. Those other two who were in jeans you can bet were not riding a pass but leave it to NBC to play the race card that they are so good at playing. I hope the employee that gave them the passes loses his pass privileges permanently for being stupid enough to not educate the people he gives his passes to.

http://www.today.com/video/today/51527403/#51527403

[Edited 2013-04-13 13:48:59]
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:06 pm

This will get thrown out in no time.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
maxamuus
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:09 pm

Wonder if the employee has been fired?

I don't give out buddy passes, in fact when people ask about them I just tell them my airline did away with them.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:13 pm

Another shining example of why employees should never give out their buddy passes. They are generally not a particularly good deal anyway (at least domestically).
 
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CV880
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:17 pm

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 2):
Wonder if the employee has been fired?

Employee should be fired and I would bet that the end of the "buddy pass" will be not too distant thanks to sleazebag attorneys such as this one. NBC should be raked over the coals for giving this credibility.

[Edited 2013-04-13 14:18:32]
 
nwcoflyer
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:23 pm

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 2):
I don't give out buddy passes, in fact when people ask about them I just tell them my airline did away with them.

I often find myself doing the same thing. Do someone a favor- and get shot in the foot. Only very close friends every get my buddy passes, and usually only when I am taveling with them.

Quoting cv880 (Reply 4):
Employee should be fired and I would bet that the end of the "buddy pass" will be not too distant thanks to sleazebag attorneys such as this one. NBC should be raked over the coals for giving this credibility.

I hear you there... I was thinking the same thing. As an employee of US, I have seen some pretty obscene behavior from pass travelers.
The New American is arriving.
 
maxamuus
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:31 pm

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 3):
They are generally not a particularly good deal anyway (at least domestically).

They aren't. In fact, a lot of times you can buy a confirmed ticket for less. Not to mention with the loads the way they are these days its sometimes next to impossible for a employee to pass travel, let alone someone on a buddy pass.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:36 pm

Delta has a relaxed dress code for all non revenue travel. There are some limitations (no revealing/vulgar etc.), but not many.

I give my buddy pass riders a thorough and complete rundown on what is to be expected of them. Rule number one...NO ARGUMENTS WITH ANYONE FOR ANY REASON. Any problems are to be handled through ME! I am usually online when they're checking in/at the gate and can see what the situation is and am able to let them know ahead of time if there might be a problem. All (6) of my buddy pass riders are experienced and have traveled S4 many times from JFK to STI, GIG, BOG, CDG, BKK, and HKG. They've never been a problem because they know they've got a good thing going.

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 6):
Not to mention with the loads the way they are these days its sometimes next to impossible for a employee to pass travel, let alone someone on a buddy pass.

It's either you can't get out or can't get back.

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 6):
They aren't. In fact, a lot of times you can buy a confirmed ticket for less

I give them out only on international flights. It's a better value and there's a better chance for an upgrade.

[Edited 2013-04-13 14:48:44]
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
cvg2lga
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:29 pm

Pass priveleges revoked; maybe.
I can only hope that the employee advised the pass riders of the rules & what to/not to do's. I'm a firm believer that people should be held responsible for themselves. Contrary to what folks like to think, I cannot control the actions/words of my friends & family when I am not with them. With that being said, it is a wise choice that must be made by ourselves on whom to extend our pass priviliges to. The employee should definitely not be fired.
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:38 pm

NBC's coverage of this is so unbelievably disingenuous it's staggering.

They play this whole thing up and set the stage for outrage; these men were asked to change clothes, they were First Class customers, there were other customers in F that were wearing jeans/hoodies and they didn't receive the same warning from the agent, etc.

Only later does NBC slip in "Oh, and they were traveling on a buddy pass at a 'greatly reduced rate'".

These two assclowns need to be banned from flying US; they've not only abused the buddy pass benefit by calling negative attention to US when they failed to adhere to non-rev policies but also filing a lawsuit based on it.

And the willing lapdog accomplices in the media, eager to gain clicks/eyeballs through a sensationalistic headline, are all too willing to oblige these morons in their quest.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
Flighty
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:57 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
they were First Class customers,

Well, that is blatantly false of course. Difference between being a customer and being the help. These men (extrapolating?) must be so wealthy, they've never learned about that.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:59 pm

Quoting stratosphere (Thread starter):
I hope the employee that gave them the passes loses his pass privileges permanently for being stupid enough to not educate the people he gives his passes to.

He will probably have his pass privileges suspended. Not permanently taken away.

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 2):
Wonder if the employee has been fired?

Considering the employee didn't directly do anything wrong, I think firing would be over the top, not to mention it would leave US open to an easy wrongful termination lawsuit.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 3):
Another shining example of why employees should never give out their buddy passes.

Notwithstanding the fact that buddy passes are nearly worthless these days, the whole idea of them is to be given away. Close family can usually travel on employee benefits - buddy passes are for just that..."buddies."

Quoting cv880 (Reply 4):
Employee should be fired and I would bet that the end of the "buddy pass" will be not too distant thanks to sleazebag attorneys such as this one.

I don't get where this knee-jerk reaction of "fire him" is coming from. This could have happened to anyone - granted, I don't know how well the employee knew these guys, but almost everyone has had a friend or two who has done something out of the blue that was completely out of character.
 
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:12 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 11):
Notwithstanding the fact that buddy passes are nearly worthless these days, the whole idea of them is to be given away.

You make it sound as if the company actively encourages buddy pass use, and that's not true. In fact, airlines that offer buddy passes/guest passes routinely make a point of reminding employees to use extreme discretion on who they give them to.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
HPRamper
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:18 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 12):
You make it sound as if the company actively encourages buddy pass use, and that's not true. In fact, airlines that offer buddy passes/guest passes routinely make a point of reminding employees to use extreme discretion on who they give them to.

Giving buddy passes to employees IS actively encouraging their use. Yes, it's up to the employee to use discretion as to who gets them - obviously they aren't advocating giving them to strangers. But the fact remains that you cannot predict with 100% certainty how a person will act. Family members could do the same and there is no policy that states that if the employee's mother misbehaves on a flight, the employee is subject to termination.
 
stratosphere
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:26 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 11):
I don't get where this knee-jerk reaction of "fire him" is coming from. This could have happened to anyone - granted, I don't know how well the employee knew these guys, but almost everyone has had a friend or two who has done something out of the blue that was completely out of character.

I am not advocating his firing but he should have his buddy passes permanently revoked for not educating the people he gave them to on proper dress code for pass riders in F/C. Also I am sure these two told the person they got them from what happened again this should have been an opportunity to educate these guys before they did something even more stupid like filing a discrimination lawsuit. Maybe the employee should have any legal costs UsAir incurs deducted from his/her paycheck that would be a wake up call to anyone who still wants to give someone a buddy pass. When I worked for the pax airlines I usually rode with my pass rider infact NW required it at one point then relaxed the rules then someone would do something stuipid like these guys and that restriction came back for a while. Bottom line don't give a buddy pass to someone you don't know real well and without a through understanding of the rules and what hazards usually accompany pass travel to popular destinations.
 
maxamuus
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:34 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 13):
Family members could do the same and there is no policy that states that if the employee's mother misbehaves on a flight, the employee is subject to termination.

I would suggest you reread your pass policy. Misuse and abuse of passes can and do lead to termination.

I am not suggesting that the employee should be fired, however I would imagine US is a little miffed to see their name in the headlines with a racial discrimination lawsuit on their hands by pass-riders.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:35 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 13):
Giving buddy passes to employees IS actively encouraging their use.

I disagree; giving buddy passes to employees is something carriers have been reluctant to do, but have adopted the policy as it has become a standard "benefit" at just about every U.S. carrier.

They've justified the offering of these passes by calling it a benefit - not something that is guaranteed under a CBA, etc. - and also have hopes of potentially turning non-rev customers into full-fare revenue customers at a later time. But make no mistake - this is not something carriers leaped at the opportunity to provide, and it's certainly not "encouraged".
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Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
sulley
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:36 pm

Reason 5,238,720 to NEVER give out ANY buddy passes, EVER.
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mayor
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sat Apr 13, 2013 11:51 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 11):
Quoting maxamuus (Reply 2):Wonder if the employee has been fired?
Considering the employee didn't directly do anything wrong, I think firing would be over the top, not to mention it would leave US open to an easy wrongful termination lawsuit.
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 11):
Quoting cv880 (Reply 4):Employee should be fired and I would bet that the end of the "buddy pass" will be not too distant thanks to sleazebag attorneys such as this one.
I don't get where this knee-jerk reaction of "fire him" is coming from. This could have happened to anyone - granted, I don't know how well the employee knew these guys, but almost everyone has had a friend or two who has done something out of the blue that was completely out of character.
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 12):
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 11):Notwithstanding the fact that buddy passes are nearly worthless these days, the whole idea of them is to be given away.
You make it sound as if the company actively encourages buddy pass use, and that's not true. In fact, airlines that offer buddy passes/guest passes routinely make a point of reminding employees to use extreme discretion on who they give them to.
Quoting maxamuus (Reply 15):
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 13):Family members could do the same and there is no policy that states that if the employee's mother misbehaves on a flight, the employee is subject to termination.
I would suggest you reread your pass policy. Misuse and abuse of passes can and do lead to termination.

I am not suggesting that the employee should be fired, however I would imagine US is a little miffed to see their name in the headlines with a racial discrimination lawsuit on their hands by pass-riders.

There IS always the possibility that no matter how much you brief the people you give your buddy passes to, they will completely ignore what you said and go ahead and break the rules, anyway, which is why I don't think the employee should be responsible for those travelers' behavior. More than likely, these people are adults. If they can't follow some simple guidelines, they probably shouldn't be travelling, anyway. This pair doesn't sound like they are very close friends of the employee, anyway, but if they are, I think I would immediately terminate this friendship.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
ozark1
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:07 am

I am VERY picky about who I put on my buddy pass list. The bottom line is, the employee is responsible. If they were friends of his, then he needs new friends, or even worse, if he just sold them to make money then that's a whole other investigation. His pass privileges should be immediately revoked.
AND they AREN'T free either!
 
Mir
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:08 am

Quoting cv880 (Reply 4):
Employee should be fired

That's rather harsh. No more buddy passes for them for a while, sure, but to lose their job over something they didn't have direct control over is silly.

-Mir
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JBAirwaysFan
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:47 am

This is also assuming the employee didn't brief them on the dos and don'ts of non-rev travel. One can also assume they decided to "go for it" and get on out of dress code. Personally, if I gave out a buddy pass I would tell so and so the dos and don'ts. If I got fired because they didn't listen, they'd owe me money for a long, long time.

You should use discretion over giving out a buddy pass. If I ever had the opportunity to give one out, I'd probably reserve it for extended family who travel often.

Honestly, I'd be more worried about something happening with my parents like this than friends. And boy, if my parents got me fired. Oh, they'd be paying me out the wazoo.

One more thing, I really don't see the need to dress a certain way when traveling in first class. You're not on the job, and you can't readily be identified as an employee of the airline (AFAIK). What's the big deal? Ugh even if I had flight benefits I probably wouldn't use them except for an emergency situation. I'd still be booking flights like anyone else.
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mayor
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:38 am

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 21):
One more thing, I really don't see the need to dress a certain way when traveling in first class.

Don't know about the other airlines, but at DL there IS no difference in the dress code (such as it is) between coach and first class. A couple of decades ago, there WAS a dress code and it was different depending on where you were sitting (or wanted to sit). Gradually, the dress code changed and was relaxed, slightly. Then, in about 2006 or 2007 (I'm still talking about DL) it was relaxed completely, for the most part. There are still some things you can't wear, but it's a far cry from the days when you were the only one at MCO wearing a suit and tie.

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 21):
You should use discretion over giving out a buddy pass. If I ever had the opportunity to give one out, I'd probably reserve it for extended family who travel often.

I think most of us still do use discretion (threats work, too). You still get people that give them out, willy nilly, with no thought of the consequences. There are also those that sell them, but they'll get caught eventually, too, especially if something like this case happens to them.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:40 am

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 21):
Ugh even if I had flight benefits I probably wouldn't use them except for an emergency situation. I'd still be booking flights like anyone else.

  Sure you would  

Why would anyone be at an airline if not for the flight benefits. Certainly not for the pay.
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mayor
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:46 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 23):
Why would anyone be at an airline if not for the flight benefits. Certainly not for the pay.

I knew people that were working there SOLEY for the flight benefits.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:58 am

The employee should be liable. He/She gave those buddy passes out knowing their behavior would reflect on him or her. I think firing is over the edge but suspending the privileges is a good idea in this case. Hopefully, other employees do not have to suffer as a result of this suit.

KH
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mayor
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:06 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 25):
The employee should be liable. He/She gave those buddy passes out knowing their behavior would reflect on him or her. I think firing is over the edge but suspending the privileges is a good idea in this case. Hopefully, other employees do not have to suffer as a result of this suit.

Oh, I realize that, with the way the system is set up, now, the employee IS responsible. I just don't think they should be......you could probably talk until you were blue in the face and they still wouldn't follow the rules. I guess if you had doubts, you could refuse to give them out, but what if, they said that they understood and they would be good little boys and girls and they STILL messed up?

I guess the only solution would be to make sure that you only gave them out to people that you trusted, unflinchingly. Otherwise, they might as well be toilet paper.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:14 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 23):

...but...but...I work there for the pay  

It's true. Nothing beats a confirmed seat.

But it's also true that I would never fly business/first as much as I do if it weren't for the bennies.

That said, I won't give out my passes. And I have lots to give out a year but I'm not risking it
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Maverick623
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:17 am

Quoting cvg2lga (Reply 8):
Pass priveleges revoked; maybe.

I guarantee you their flight benefits have been suspended.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 11):
He will probably have his pass privileges suspended. Not permanently taken away.

The last time I heard of someone losing their flight benefits, it was for 2 years, and for way less of an issue than this.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 11):
not to mention it would leave US open to an easy wrongful termination lawsuit.

Hardly. It's stated very clearly that the employee is held accountable for the conduct of their pass travelers, and that any type of abuse, misuse, or violation of stated rules is grounds for discipline up to, and including termination.

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 23):


Why would anyone be at an airline if not for the flight benefits. Certainly not for the pay.

I know people that have worked for the airlines for 15+ years and have never had a passport and fly twice a year. The biggest reasons I hear are insurance and flexibility, but mostly insurance.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
bluewhale18210
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:20 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 22):
There are still some things you can't wear, but it's a far cry from the days when you were the only one at MCO wearing a suit and tie.

Yeah, but back then you can actually GET ON!!!
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usflyer msp
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:21 am

I am confused about one thing in this lawsuit, when did US ever fly DEN-LAX? Nothing mentions any kind of connection in PHX. Are they sure they are even suing the right airline?
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:28 am

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 27):
But it's also true that I would never fly business/first as much as I do if it weren't for the bennies.

If not for the flight benefits, I wouldn't even SEE the front cabin.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
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Schweigend
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:49 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 26):
I guess the only solution would be to make sure that you only gave them out to people that you trusted, unflinchingly. Otherwise, they might as well be toilet paper.

I would not mind at all if we went back to Buddy travel being employee-accompanied only, as it was originally. I thought the system was meant to benefit the employee who wanted to travel with friends...not to allow friends to get cheap seats and travel alone.

Quoting maxamuus (Reply 6):
In fact, a lot of times you can buy a confirmed ticket for less. Not to mention with the loads the way they are these days its sometimes next to impossible for a employee to pass travel, let alone someone on a buddy pass.

And unaccompanied buddy pass riders being confirmed in First is uncommon, especially after all Elites and other higher-priority standbys have been upgraded.

US must have had a very lightly loaded F cabin on the flight in question.

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 30):
I am confused about one thing in this lawsuit, when did US ever fly DEN-LAX? Nothing mentions any kind of connection in PHX. Are they sure they are even suing the right airline?

Me too -- a PHX conx would've been unavoidable for these gentlemen.

Did this happen at DEN or PHX? The very poor NBC article states only DEN-LAX, but not where the incident actually took place:

Quote:
they were headed home from denver for los angeles after attending a relative's funeral last august
 
PHX787
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:48 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 23):
Why would anyone be at an airline if not for the flight benefits. Certainly not for the pay.
Quoting mayor (Reply 24):
I knew people that were working there SOLEY for the flight benefits.
Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 27):
...but...but...I work there for the pay

I'd work for an airline to be around aviation   
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RIXrat
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:43 am

Thanks to my cousin, who is a retired senior VP at DL, my wife and I were able to ride AMS-ATL in business lie down flat on a B764 in 2008. The experience was something else and per instructions from my cousin, I did wear proper slacks and a sports jacket. The connecting flight ended in TUS where we could not get first class, but we behaved well and the whole route cost us $325 each. Not bad, I would say.
 
flyingthe757
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:03 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 23):
Why would anyone be at an airline if not for the flight benefits. Certainly not for the pay.

I work for the buzz of the industry, to deal with customers, and know I'm making a difference and hopefully my customer service skills will bring that customer back. Benefits of course are fantastic, but generally I only use my ticket once a year now. A few friends are on my concessions and they have had the brief on what to do/not do and they understand that.
 
JAGflyer
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:11 pm

As someone who has flight passes, I do not understand why jeans would not be allowed. No one on the flight except maybe the flight attendants know who you are and that you're travelling on non-rev passes. I'd be more concerned with trying to get passengers to try and blend in rather than getting them to wear certain types of clothing. There is no dress code for J or F nor Y (as long as you are not topless/scantily clad) so I do not see what the issue is here. Staff travellers on passes should have no special dress codes that regular passengers don't have. If anything it'll keep them from sticking out along the revenue passengers. As long as you are not wearing ripped clothing, tank tops, beachwear, or inappropriate t-shirts you are good to go on passes with my airline.

[Edited 2013-04-14 07:13:24]
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mayor
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:38 pm

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 34):
The experience was something else and per instructions from my cousin, I did wear proper slacks and a sports jacket.

Don't know why. IIRC, the dress code on DL, should have already been updated, so a sports jacket and slacks wouldn't have been required in Business Elite, so even jeans would have been ok. I think the dress code was changed in 2006 or 2007.

Quoting jagflyer (Reply 41):

So, what is US dress code, specifically for first class?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
PanAm1971
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:40 pm

I have a good friend who is a pilot for US. I was on his list for a long time. I was more than happy to dress up slightly for the privilege. Coming back from Oktoberfest was always interesting though.   My point-it's not that hard to follow the rules.

However, what these guys are saying is-essentially-that whatever the policy may be-it is not a cultural norm for them to dress in the manner the rules state, and as such, unless everyone (meaning all the passengers) is made to dress in exactly the same manner, it amounts to a form of discrimination.... buddy pass or no buddy pass. I hate to tell you... but they have an arguable case. It is not a strong case. But they do have an argument. They'll probably lose (or US will settle). But if it actually sees a courtroom... this is not a 100% slam dunk against the plaintiffs.

[Edited 2013-04-14 07:45:30]
 
eastern747
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:42 pm

I can remember standing by for a PA 747 from JFK-FRA. The flight looked pretty full and I was on a pass working for another airline. Departure time was fast approaching and the gate agent called out a name and mine. The guy in front of me had no tie on and the agent asked if he ad one. He said it was in his bag. I had a suit and tie on. The agent said no time...we are ready. Called out my name and handed me my boarding pass. Seat 1A. As I boarded the door was closed behind me and off we went. I was offered dining in the sky upstairs in the lounge upstairs. That was a real treat.....all because of a tie.
 
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:18 pm

Quoting PanAm1971 (Reply 40):
It is not a strong case. But they do have an argument.

Not if they knew the rules going in, before they accepted the buddy passes or even before they used them. That wouldn't work for an airline employee and it wouldn't work for any other pass riders, either.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
davs5032
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:30 pm

Quoting PanAm1971 (Reply 40):
However, what these guys are saying is-essentially-that whatever the policy may be-it is not a cultural norm for them to dress in the manner the rules state, and as such, unless everyone (meaning all the passengers) is made to dress in exactly the same manner, it amounts to a form of discrimination.... buddy pass or no buddy pass. I hate to tell you... but they have an arguable case. It is not a strong case. But they do have an argument. They'll probably lose (or US will settle). But if it actually sees a courtroom... this is not a 100% slam dunk against the plaintiffs.

Depending on the nature of their particular claim, I'd say it's as close to a slam dunk as you can get. Keep in mind, (at least from the details shared in the thread), it would appear they're arguing this solely based on *racial* discrimination. If that's indeed the case, I don't see how they can get this very far. The dress code rules (assuming they're plainly laid out) don't discriminate against race in any way, shape, or form, so that's a dead-end argument. If they're arguing that the discrimination is based on some sort of lower class, higher class standard, then that would at least attack the fairness of the rule itself, but even then, it's not likely to have any merit whatsoever, especially given their using the buddy passes, for which the airline is well within its rights to stipulate a certain dress code, whether more stringent than the normal F requirements or not.

I for one hope USair doesn't settle this, as such actions by companies against frivolous claims like this are a sign of "giving in" and only invite more baseless claims like this in the future. Race card, free lunch suits like this have made a mockery of the legal system, and at some point, a principle stance has to be taken as a deterrent. I also wouldn't mind one bit if sanctions were levied against the attorney for stooping to this level.
 
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:00 pm

I'd say it all depends on whether or not the employee that gave these passes out, told the recipients of the dress code ahead of time. If the employee can verify that he or she, did, then the case is dead, right there. If the employee DIDN'T, then we have a problem. Any employee, no matter the airline, should give someone they give passes to, all the rules and regs that they need to know, basically to CYOA, althought if they just ignore what you say, it doesn't make that much difference, unless it ends up like this.



I'm reminded of a story, not long after DL came out with the buddy pass program. An employee gives out several passes to a group of friends. They use them to fly to Paris. There was still a stricter dress code in play. Before they arrived in Paris, they went to the lavs and changed clothes into non-dress code duds. The F/A caught them and told them to change back. Arguments ensued and when they got to Paris, the station manager met them and tore up their buddy passes, requring them to buy tickets to return home.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:05 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 23):
 Sure you would  

Why would anyone be at an airline if not for the flight benefits. Certainly not for the pay.

Dead serious. There are more airline employees than those who work the ticket counters or baggage handlers. If you work in the corporate offices you do pretty well depending on the airline, and you still have the flight benefits. I've interviewed for airlines in the past, actually once just recently for a corporate position. The flight benefits were the last thing on my mind. If it was a family emergency (parents and siblings live in FL) I'd use them. However if I was going on vacation, I'd book a flight like anyone else. I really wouldn't want to be standing in the airport all day hoping to get on a flight. I'd rather just know when I'm leaving and get to the airport my usual 1.5 to 2 hours beforehand knowing I have a confirmed seat assignment and go.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:19 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 45):

And yet, thousands of us, active and retired, do just that, every day. Amazing, huh?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Flighty
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:57 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
but to lose their job over something they didn't have direct control over is silly.

This is too perfect. Employee might have been in on the plan to bamboozle company. It's almost like a lawyer read the policy and hatched the whole plan. It's not that hard to hatch this plan if you read the policy. Doesn't take a genius... just a scumbag.

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 21):
What's the big deal?

It's practically free for employees. Do you really want to pay for F and have shabbily dressed people who did not pay to be there? Or a careless low-wage employee and her 4 kids making a non-paying racket? It would drive me nuts in a hurry. It's disrespectful and unfair to the __paying customer__ -- whatever age and/or color they may be. The business cares about the paying customer, full stop.

Quoting PanAm1971 (Reply 40):
unless everyone (meaning all the passengers) is made to dress in exactly the same manner, it amounts to a form of discrimination.... buddy pass or no buddy pass. I hate to tell you... but they have an arguable case.

That their dress code isn't a 'cultural norm' for African Americans? Maybe it isn't a cultural norm for anybody. It is a dress code for non-paying guests, which is what they are.

If there were white or asian nonrevs in F who didn't have to change, that would be the ONLY case here. This is a racial complaint based on a totally color-blind policy. Complaints like this hurt everyone. It is nothing new for businesses to have a dress code for employees.

If this results in non-revs having the same rights as paying customers, it shifts the tax category of non-revving and you can kiss it all goodbye.
 
cbphoto
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting cvg2lga (Reply 8):
Pass priveleges revoked; maybe.
I can only hope that the employee advised the pass riders of the rules & what to/not to do's. I'm a firm believer that people should be held responsible for themselves. Contrary to what folks like to think, I cannot control the actions/words of my friends & family when I am not with them. With that being said, it is a wise choice that must be made by ourselves on whom to extend our pass priviliges to. The employee should definitely not be fired.
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 11):
Considering the employee didn't directly do anything wrong, I think firing would be over the top, not to mention it would leave US open to an easy wrongful termination lawsuit.
Quoting Mir (Reply 20):
That's rather harsh. No more buddy passes for them for a while, sure, but to lose their job over something they didn't have direct control over is silly.

I disagree, the employee should be fired! Back in the day, we had paper buddy passes that were much easier to hand out to friends and family. One employee gave it to a friend, to ended up selling it on Craigslist! Once it came back that this non-rev passenger had actually bought the buddy pass, that Employee was terminated and our entire buddy pass system was overhauled.

Buddy Passes and non-rev travel is a privilege, not a right and if you or your buddy cause a scene or misuse the system, you should be terminated. This lawsuit is ridiculous and should be thrown out right away, and these individuals should be barred from ever flying US Airways! And just for the negative press alone, the employee should be FIRED!
ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
 
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:25 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 47):
It's practically free for employees. Do you really want to pay for F and have shabbily dressed people who did not pay to be there? Or a careless low-wage employee and her 4 kids making a non-paying racket? It would drive me nuts in a hurry. It's disrespectful and unfair to the __paying customer__ -- whatever age and/or color they may be. The business cares about the paying customer, full stop.

Well, there virtually is NO dress code for paying pax and, depending on the airline, almost none or a very relaxed one for the employees and pass riders. Most employees should know the ropes on how to fly and not advertise who or what they are. Same thing applies for the people they give passes to.




The point is, these people are flying standby, with the rules and regulations that apply to that, which are the same as what apply to the employees when they fly. Simple as that. If this pair KNEW of the rules and regulations, beforehand, then they have nothing to stand on. If they didn't, the airline handled it badly, BUT the rules and regs are still there. Either way, there was NO discrimination involved in it, no matter how much they would like to make us think there was.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
flyingthe757
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:27 pm

Quoting cbphoto (Reply 48):
Buddy Passes and non-rev travel is a privilege, not a right and if you or your buddy cause a scene or misuse the system, you should be terminated. This lawsuit is ridiculous and should be thrown out right away, and these individuals should be barred from ever flying US Airways! And just for the negative press alone, the employee should be FIRED!

I don't agree. Terminate the persons staff travel, of course, but to fire him....No way....

He was not there, he was not on the plane, he was not involved personally in the issue that took place. Discipline the person of course, but firing is way too harsh
 
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RE: Discrimination Lawsuit Filed Against US Air

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:34 pm

Quoting flyingthe757 (Reply 50):
I don't agree. Terminate the persons staff travel, of course, but to fire him....No way....

He was not there, he was not on the plane, he was not involved personally in the issue that took place. Discipline the person of course, but firing is way too harsh

Not sure how US is set up, but at DL this is exactly what can happen. Employees are responsible for the actions of the people they give passes to. Even though I don't agree with this, it's the way things are. Sometimes I feel that employees completely ignore these warnings and this is what happens.

If the employee explained the rules, etc. beforehand, then they shouldn't be punished. If they didn't, well, that's a different story.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen

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