brilondon
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Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:14 am

I was wondering why AA does not use its 738's to Hawaii like UA does?
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roseflyer
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:40 am

UA only recently added 737 flights to Hawaii. CO started the 737 flights not long before the merger because all their 757-200s were converted to transatlantic seating which is not ideal to Hawaii. Also CO didn't have a large west coast hub to feed flights. Legacy UA didn't use anything smaller than th 757 (and has no ETOPS A320s). CO also served some smaller markets. 737s to Hawaii were never popular with aloha failing until Alaska came in and showed how to compete with smaller airplanes avoiding the high capacity routes out of SFO and LAX.

It is possible SFO-HNL could have lasted on a 737, but I think the 757 is the right aircraft for Hawaii from LAX. It is what united and delta have used for a while along with larger planes. Hawaii is a high capacity market.
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ghifty
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:40 am

Simple answer: they're not UA.

All the major carriers have different route structures.. and considerably different fleet makeups. From LAX, the three major carriers seem to generally send 737-800 (UA), 757-200 (AA), and 757-300 (DL). UA has a much bigger base of operations in LAX than the other two carriers, so they're a little bit more flexible.. DL's 757-300 flies routes from LAX-ATL, as well, so it makes sense to also use that aircraft for Hawaii routes instead of dead-heading a right-sized 737-800/757-200 for just that flight.
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lightsaber
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:55 am

I wondered why AA didn't use the 738 myself. Either AA could up frequency or cut costs in the off season.

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1337Delta764
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:18 am

Are AA's 738s even ETOPS certified? If not, that must be one of the reasons AA doesn't fly them to Hawaii, since it costs money to convert them.
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JoePatroni707
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:50 am

Mods...please delete this thread..dont give AA any ideas....just kidding... IIRC our 738s are not etops... I think the 321s will be the new AA Hawaii bird from west coast. 763s from DFW for now.
 
SXDFC
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:01 am

Where is AA 737-823 when you need him?

What equipment does AA use to Hawaii?
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airportugal310
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:03 am

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 5):

I actually watched AA #5 glide in over my apartment in Waikiki this afternoon, through the gloomy clouds. Thought it was one of our wingletted birds but I made out the stripes last minute.
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lucky777
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:33 am

It's amazing to think that for the most part the legacy carriers are using smaller narrowbodies to Hawaii when it was dominated by widebodies only a few short years ago really. Delta would use L10's along with 767's and AA and UA would of course use DC10's...i'm assuming NWA did as well.
 
boeing767mech
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:24 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
Are AA's 738s even ETOPS certified?

There is one airframe listed as ETOPS qual on our internal forms. ETOPS on our 737's in adding another cargo pit fire bottle and running the APU for the complete flight for a backup source of power. And of course lots of paperwork and certication of a ETOPS program for the 737's

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777klm
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:11 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 6):
What equipment does AA use to Hawaii?

DFW-HNL
AA123: 763
AA5: 763

DFW-OGG
AA7: 763

LAX-HNL
AA31: 757
AA283: 757
AA297: 757
AA267: 757

LAX-OGG
AA253: 757
AA161: 757

LAX-LIH
AA265: 757
AA285: 757

LAX-KOA
AA247: 757
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murchmo
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:38 am

Everytime I fly back and forth between LA and HNL the flights are full on 767s and 757s. Same with Hawaiians 767 and A330. Maybe AA doesn't operate a 777 anymore but didn't they in the past? UA uses 777s from SFO sometimes don't they? And its usually a 767 from LAX. It's definitely a high capacity market. I think they have tried the 738s during a slower time of year..?
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brilondon
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:01 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 2):
Simple answer: they're not UA.

Thank goodness.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 6):
What equipment does AA use to Hawaii?

They use their 757s and 767s.

Note: I hope I am using the correct form of the nouns, not that it really matters.
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STT757
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:58 pm

Something will have to replace the 757s at some point , it's either going to be sooner (738s) or later (737Max, A321NEO).
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mia305
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:28 pm

As far as I know AA never used 738s or 777s on the Hawaii markets.
AA has used DC10s in the past. They are currently running only
757s and 763s.

From what I know all the flights to Hawaii are always full you
can't even try fly there as a non rev employee because they are
always full.

From the west coast they'll swich to the 321s when they come on
line. As far as DFW to HNL that'll be tricky they'll probably have to
reconfigure 777s to fly that route or keep the current 763s.
 
brilondon
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:50 pm

Quoting mia305 (Reply 14):
From the west coast they'll swich to the 321s when they come on
line. As far as DFW to HNL that'll be tricky they'll probably have to
reconfigure 777s to fly that route or keep the current 763s.


They could use their 787s that they had ordered to replace the 767, I would like that. 
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ripcordd
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:18 pm

MIA they are already going to goto a 2 class 777 so that would take over from DFW...Also ORD has a non stop during the summer and holiday
 
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:59 pm

Quoting mia305 (Reply 14):
From the west coast they'll swich to the 321s when they come on
line. As far as DFW to HNL that'll be tricky they'll probably have to
reconfigure 777s to fly that route or keep the current 763s.

Or use the 787 or the A330's they'll be inheriting from US. The 787 is a very efficient aircraft, especially on flights of 7+ hours. In a high-density configuration charing standard Hawaii fares (which are not cheap), a 787 could be very profitable to run.
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mia305
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:23 pm

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 16):

Thanx, I didn't know that. Awesome to see 777s in HNL.
 
atxpatriot811
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:48 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Or use the 787 or the A330's they'll be inheriting from US. The 787 is a very efficient aircraft, especially on flights of 7+ hours. In a high-density configuration charing standard Hawaii fares (which are not cheap), a 787 could be very profitable to run.

AA isn't a huge fan of subfleets. If they use the 787 or 772 to HNL out of DFW/ORD, it'd just be whatever intl 2-class product they have on hand serving the rest of the network. Doesn't make sense to dedicate a single digit number of widebodies to HNL, it ruins flexibility in fleet routing. HNL to operations is just like any other international trans oceanic flight, gotta have ETOPS, pilots have to be trained for over water flying, you fly in oceanic airspace that is largely uncontrolled, only difference from international flying is no immigration/customs at the other end.
 
n737aa
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:06 pm

Quoting mia305 (Reply 14):
From what I know all the flights to Hawaii are always full you
can't even try fly there as a non rev employee because they are
always full.

Not true, plenty of flights have open seats that non-revs fill.

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qqflyboy
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:45 pm

Quoting mia305 (Reply 14):

My experience non-revving to from Hawaii is that you can almost always get there, it's getting back to the mainland that's the problem. In which case, who minds getting stuck in the islands? Lol!
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surfdog75
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:47 pm

Quoting ghifty (Reply 2):
Simple answer: they're not UA.

All the major carriers have different route structures.. and considerably different fleet makeups. From LAX, the three major carriers seem to generally send 737-800 (UA), 757-200 (AA), and 757-300 (DL). UA has a much bigger base of operations in LAX than the other two carriers, so they're a little bit more flexible.. DL's 757-300 flies routes from LAX-ATL, as well, so it makes sense to also use that aircraft for Hawaii routes instead of dead-heading a right-sized 737-800/757-200 for just that flight.

The 757-300 is definitely right-sized for the mainland to Hawaii and DL flies it to HNL and OGG for a reason. The 757-3 has one of the lowest CASMs of any airliner out there and 224 seats which makes it perfect for low yield routes, and it's always packed. It would be easier to use a 757-2 since they have many more and use them to KOA, OGG, and LIH. I hope I never see the sardine can 737 on that route at DL.
 
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:57 am

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 8):
It's amazing to think that for the most part the legacy carriers are using smaller narrowbodies to Hawaii when it was dominated by widebodies only a few short years ago really. Delta would use L10's along with 767's and AA and UA would of course use DC10's...i'm assuming NWA did as well.

True, CO used the 767's for a very long time, then finally downgauged to the 757 and 737. This process has been going on for a long time in other words.
 
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beachbum1970
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Tue Apr 16, 2013 1:30 am

A shame UA couldn't find a way to make the CO 767-200's work as a Hawaii sub-fleet. I wonder if they downsized the F cabin to just 2 or 3 rows, and the rest just economy seats, if they could have made it work efficiency wise. Plus the extra cargo capacity would be nice to the Islands as well. Just a pipe dream of course, but I do love the 767's, my favorite plane when I have to fly in coach!
 
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:44 am

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 23):
Quoting lucky777 (Reply 8):
It's amazing to think that for the most part the legacy carriers are using smaller narrowbodies to Hawaii when it was dominated by widebodies only a few short years ago really. Delta would use L10's along with 767's and AA and UA would of course use DC10's...i'm assuming NWA did as well.

True, CO used the 767's for a very long time, then finally downgauged to the 757 and 737.

CO's 767s were all delivered between 2000 and 2002, not really that long ago.
 
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:24 am

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 8):
It's amazing to think that for the most part the legacy carriers are using smaller narrowbodies to Hawaii when it was dominated by widebodies only a few short years ago really.

On one of my trips back from HNL in the 1990's, I had a lot of 'free' time at the airport, so I went and looked around other carriers' waiting areas. These were massive two story lounges, for receving 747s. I had never seen lounges that big, as there weren't that many 747s running out of DFW at the time.

There was a United (?) 747 parked outside. What an impressive sight that was to look at from the lounge.

When I travelled to HNL on AA, it was always a DC-10. I sat in the front row of coach for my first flight out, in a suit.... That was the last time I ever came in a full suit for a HNL flight. Later on, I just packed a tie and sportcoat for Non-Rev 1st class possibilites. Only got that once, coming back, and that, only to LAX, as the DFW flight from HNL was FULL.
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:13 am

Quoting qqflyboy (Reply 21):

My experience non-revving to from Hawaii is that you can almost always get there, it's getting back to the mainland that's the problem. In which case, who minds getting stuck in the islands? Lol!

I wonder how many supervisors have received calls from non-revs trying to get out of Hawaii jokingly asking if they can just have a transfer instead...
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deltal1011man
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:26 am

Quoting surfdog75 (Reply 22):
The 757-300 is definitely right-sized for the mainland to Hawaii and DL flies it to HNL and OGG for a reason.

the 753 is only used to HNL.
752 and 767s are used to OGG

Quoting ghifty (Reply 2):
DL's 757-300 flies routes from LAX-ATL, as well, so it makes sense to also use that aircraft for Hawaii routes

Out side of a few odd days I don't believe the 753 has even flown ATL-LAX.

753s come from MSP and DTW. 767s come from ATL.

Plus its not some major issue, AFAIK every type of aircraft AA has see at least one LAX turn.

Delta is basically the same way outside of the M88s. (and I don't think DCI has anymore E-jets hitting LA after LAX-MCI went mainline)
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ha763
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RE: Why AA Does Not Use The 738 To Hawaii

Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:40 am

Quoting ghifty (Reply 2):
From LAX, the three major carriers seem to generally send 737-800 (UA), 757-200 (AA), and 757-300 (DL).

UA uses all three aircraft types from LAX to Hawaii. UA started using the 757-300 last summer when they removed the 767-300ER from the LAX-Hawaii routes.