fab747
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Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:24 am

It's with great sadness today that marks the end of Qantas to Frankfurt Germany. It will be operated by VH-OJA, their first 747-400 and will be landing in Frankfurt tomorrow at 0615am. It will depart back tomorrow evening ending a long association with Germany and continental Europe. Very sad day for the ground staff, pilots and cabin crew.
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PanHAM
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:40 am

Sad indeed for many reasons.

It will also take off nbot only a destination but a whoile continent from the map. Time will tell if that was a smart move or not.
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fraspotter
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:50 am

I remember that flight when FRA was still my home airport. QF006 I believe used to be the final departure of the night at FRA for awhile...
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PanHAM
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:41 am

Yes, I took thaqt flight several times and the usual departure time was 23h30, in the air usually arounf midnight.

Due to that stupid curfew they had to pull this forward. The last workable departure time for long distance flights is now 22h15 to make sure that airborne time is 23h00 sharp. The idiocy is, even when a flight leaves 23:00:01 it must be already shown and listed on the wensite of the Hesse State ministry of economics as delayed past curfew and a reason must be stated, which, in this case usually is "start clearance given prior 23:00:00".


.
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shamrock321
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:02 am

PanHAM it's not quite removing a whole continent from its map, it still serves LHR which is in Europe
 
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EK413
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:17 am

Quoting fab747 (Thread starter):

Appears to have suffered an aircraft change with QF5 just departing SYD minutes ago operated by VH-OJC

QF5 from Sydney to Frankfurt http://fr24.com/QFA5

Unless we looking at the SYD-SIN-SYD service...?

EK413

[Edited 2013-04-14 00:40:05]
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PanHAM
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:22 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 1):
It will also take off nbot only a destination but a whoile continent from the map. Time will tell if that was a smart move or not.

Excusé moi bad Angaise. Since my base is FRA, I wrote thos, of course, from my bases's point of view. For better understanding I should have added " from FRA".

Fact is, the Australian continent is no longer served from FRA as of next week.
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TS-IOR
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:37 am

Quoting shamrock321 (Reply 4):

LHR is in the UK as you know   and it's in the British Isles, not in mainland Europe  
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BestWestern
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:03 am

Quoting TS-IOR (Reply 7):
LHR is in the UK as you know   and it's in the British Isles, not in mainland Europe

Come off it - LHR is in Europe. If it isn't in Europe, what continent is it in?
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ERJ135
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:07 am

I used to work for a Qantas that served 7 cities in Europe with their own metal, places like Amsterdam, Zagreb, Athens and Rome. These are all gone by the wayside as unprofitable. And now the final mainland European city draws to a close. As much as I am sadened to see this happen, I can also see the economic rationale. When Virgin Australia announced the tie up with Etihad And then saw the bookings go up as a result in onward traffic to numerous destinations not served by Virgin Aus, I couldn't help but wonder what Qantas should or could do. Clearly they had to do something to compete as VA were gaining market share, and fast. The QF decision to go to bed with the most conectable Arabian airline in the worlds Hub of Dubai now seems a no-brainer. Today I can book on the QF website to at least 50 more cities not previously served by QF and many of those are served by Emirates A380s which most will agree is not a bad propasition. To me this is a good thing and I hope that now QF can begin expanding its direct -ex Syd services on longer thinner routes. If they had the 787 like they were supposed to things may be a little clearer.
As for me I am now well and truley retired, I still consult from time to time but now I have switched sides, I just find VA and Etihad give me more.
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na
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:23 am

Very sad that the kangeroo leaves FRA for the last time today. The QF 744 was a welcome everyday sight. I can see that it is rather unprofitable to have a plane parked for ca. 17 hours each day from 6 in the early morning until after 23 in the late evening.
 
charliecossie
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:34 am

I've worked this flight (QF5/6) every working day for 18 years.
There's been good times, bad times and a few "Qantas are like a hole in the head" times as well but overall they're alright.
I'll miss the 747 (and a 100 Euros a month) hugely. It IS the king of the skies and always will be (Tristar was the queen!).
Dunno what I'm gonna do now apart from switching on an Airbus first thing in the morning. Can't go back to London, can't afford the pay cut.
Still got one more tomorrow.
Bye bye Qantas.
 
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:41 am

Quoting charliecossie (Reply 11):
I've worked this flight (QF5/6) every working day for 18 years.

Nice memories Charlie.
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zkokq
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:54 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 1):

It's going to be smart. I can get anywhere in Europe through emirates which is great to travel on. The route was not profitable, so it suffered the axe as it should. I hope QF returns to profit in the international sector and this will be a catalyst. Well done to Qantas for being brave and thinking of the business instead of prestige.
 
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:54 am

Not only does this mean that FRA is losing an iconic airline, with it, it is losing yet another example of an iconic airplane. Not too long ago FRA had 747s of Iran Air, Cathay Pacific, Korean Airlines, Air China, Singapore Airlines, ANA, ANA Cargo, JAL Cargo, Jade Cargo, Air India, Qantas and probably many more I can't think of right now.

The fact that most of those have been replaced by 777s is sad enough but the fact that the QF 744 will replaced by an EK 77W (when do you get a chance to spot those exotic birds?) makes it even better.


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flyingalex
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:55 am

The end of an era. I took QF5/QF6 several times between Frankfurt and Singapore, and it was always a good flight. Qantas's onboard product in Economy is about as good as Economy gets. This flight was often fairly empty though, so I can understand why the route is being pulled. That said, I'm still very sad to see them go.

Farewell, Qantas. You will be missed.
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huldoch
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:01 am

Glad they changed OJA....interior of that AC is crap!
 
rb211524g
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:01 am

Should things pick up for Qantas internationally, could they reintroduce the service? Or given the alliance with Emirates, will they leave things as they are?
 
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:05 am

Quoting something (Reply 14):

Iagree that FRA has become more and more boring in the last two years with so many now coming with the fat sausage from Seattle instead of the 747 which still ruled here by 2010. I hope EK is sending the A380 soon to FRA, those boring 77Ws are unbearable indeed.
 
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:05 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 13):
The route was not profitable, so it suffered the axe as it should.

Not profitable is an understatement. It was losing tens of millions of Australian dollars annually - so it wasn't a minor loss by any means.
I do quite enjoy a spot of flying - more so when it's not in Economy!
 
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:07 am

Should things pick up for Qantas internationally, could they reintroduce the service? Or given the alliance with Emirates, will they leave things as they are?

Quoting huldoch (Reply 16):

I flew on OJA in December of 2011 to FRA. I agree, the interior looked tired, old, & crappy!!  
 
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:18 am

Quoting na (Reply 18):
I hope EK is sending the A380 soon to FRA, those boring 77Ws are unbearable indeed.

Not only is the 777 ugly it is also everywhere! EK will probably go 3x A388 at FRA as soon as deliveries permit.

Quoting rb211524g (Reply 20):
Should things pick up for Qantas internationally, could they reintroduce the service? Or given the alliance with Emirates, will they leave things as they are?

QF announced plans to try Europe flights with JetStar A332s. Maybe you'll see SIN-BER (where EK doesn't have access) at some stage but that is all very speculative. According to the bilateral between Australia and Germany, Qantas can only fly to Germany via Singapore and not via Dubai - so QF flights to BER and STR on behalf of EK (two destinations in Germany EK continually expresses interest in) are not allowed.

That being sad, chances of seeing actual Qantas planes back in Germany are asymptotically approaching 0.
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:42 am

Quoting na (Reply 18):

Though it's off topic, I have to disagree. I can't think of an airport with a more diverse fleet. There are daily A318, 319, 320, 321, 300, (sometimes 310), 332, 333, 343, 346, 388, B737, 744, 748 (i and f), 757, 767, 777, (soon hopefully again: 787), and so on...
 
rutankrd
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 10:47 am

Quoting something (Reply 21):
Qantas can only fly to Germany via Singapore and not via Dubai - so QF flights to BER and STR on behalf of EK (two destinations in Germany EK continually expresses interest in) are not allowed.

Even more specifically they can only operate into Frankfurt !
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:00 am

Quoting something (Reply 21):
That being sad, chances of seeing actual Qantas planes back in Germany are asymptotically approaching 0.
Quoting rutankrd (Reply 23):
Even more specifically they can only operate into Frankfurt !

The CEO of Qantas thinks they can - and may - operate into Berlin:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-tips-...787-routes-beijing-hong-kong-india

"But a bigger reach for the Red Roo isn't wholly reliant on the Boeing 787-9, with Joyce also eyeing off other destinations in the shorter term.

"We're continuing to talk to Emirates about opportunities in continental Europe, and Berlin is one of them" Joyce said. "As this partnership is bedded down we'll be looking at opportunities for both airlines to expand their networks."


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flyingalex
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:01 am

Quoting something (Reply 21):
Qantas can only fly to Germany via Singapore

I'm not sure what the current bilateral says, but Bangkok also used to be a permitted intermediate stop.

A long time ago (late 80s, early 90s, something like that) QF even flew via both, so SYD-SIN-BKK-FRA.

Australia-BKK-Germany on Jetstar sounds like it might work.

[Edited 2013-04-14 04:02:23]
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BestWestern
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:03 am

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 25):
I'm not sure what the current bilateral says, but Bangkok also used to be a permitted intermediate stop.

Germany - Bangkok yields already are rock bottom already, so that pairing will not work with the Qantas cost base and lack of feed.
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rutankrd
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:09 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
The CEO of Qantas thinks they can - and may - operate into Berlin:

http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-tips-...787-routes-beijing-hong-kong-india

"But a bigger reach for the Red Roo isn't wholly reliant on the Boeing 787-9, with Joyce also eyeing off other destinations in the shorter term.

"We're continuing to talk to Emirates about opportunities in continental Europe, and Berlin is one of them" Joyce said. "As this partnership is bedded down we'll be looking at opportunities for both airlines to expand their networks."

The CEO thinks he can negotiate the transfer of authority to Berlin - Very different.

The German authorities will probably allow it, however why they would go to Berlin even with Oneworld umbrella and AB really is beyond especially now that UAE have handcuffed them !

The new Berlin will offer nothing other than more low value tourists - No discredit to the city but Berlin is geographically hopeless as a Hub.
 
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:13 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 23):
Even more specifically they can only operate into Frankfurt !
Quoting flyingalex (Reply 25):
I'm not sure what the current bilateral says, but Bangkok also used to be a permitted intermediate stop.

Thanks for the corrections.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 26):
Germany - Bangkok yields already are rock bottom already, so that pairing will not work with the Qantas cost base and lack of feed.

If CX were on board, then BER-HKG. If not, BER-SIN. I don't think Germany - Bangkok is bad throughout all classes; economy isn't stellar but performs solidly. Problem is lack of sufficient premium demand. In either way, those routes would all be operated by JetStar on the A332s or 787s. The ''Red Roo'' back in Germany, and on a 747 at that, is just not going to happen.
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flyingalex
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:15 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 26):
Germany - Bangkok yields already are rock bottom already, so that pairing will not work with the Qantas cost base and lack of feed.

Which is why I specifically mentioned Jetstar rather than Qantas.
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mariner
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:15 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 27):
The CEO thinks he can negotiate the transfer of authority to Berlin - Very different.

How is it different? The CEO of Qantas believes his airline can - and may - fly into Berlin.

Whether Emirates would code share on the route - or if it could - is unknown to me, but quite clearly, in the context, Mr. Joyce would do it from Dubai.

mariner

[Edited 2013-04-14 04:17:26]
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EK413
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:21 am

Quoting rb211524g (Reply 20):
Quoting huldoch (Reply 16):

We flew on OJA in December of 2011 to FRA. I agree, the interior looked tired, old, & crappy!!

I flew VH-OJA QF108 JFK-LAX 25/03 J/C & let me tell you the cabin was tired & so was the IFE... Wait, there wasn't any!

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rutankrd
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:23 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 30):
How is it different? The CEO of Qantas believes his airline can - and may - fly into Berlin.

Its very different - As of now QF can not fly into Berlin simple.
They have authority to fly to Frankfurt or nowhere else its quite simple !
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:27 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 32):
Its very different - As of now QF can not fly into Berlin simple.
They have authority to fly to Frankfurt or nowhere else its quite simple !


That was raised on the Australian aviation thread, but when Mr. Joyce made the statement, no one was ready to contradict him.

But I still don't see how it is "different". It is Qantas returning to a (continental) European city, but from Dubai.

mariner

[Edited 2013-04-14 04:29:30]
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PanHAM
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:33 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 30):
How is it different? The CEO of Qantas believes his airline can - and may - fly into Berlin

Yes, probably, but Australia has little to offer in reverse when LH doe snot intend to fly there.

Most important, they would probably face a problem selling tickets BER/DXB/Indian sub continent.

QF had full traffic rights to SIN as well as BKK , I once flew FRA/SIN with direct connection to KUL and from KUL to Oz afterwards and I remember sitting in a Euro bound 744 at BKK, not sure if FRA was the destination.

But selling QF/EK from BER to -say BOM via DXB is not covered and why should Germany allow EK to sneak in through the back door?
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something
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:37 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 32):
Its very different - As of now QF can not fly into Berlin simple.
They have authority to fly to Frankfurt or nowhere else its quite simple !
Quoting mariner (Reply 33):
But I still don't see how it is "different". It is Qantas returning to a (continental) European city, but from Dubai.

Which I believe was the problem. Otherwise QF could just take over EK's 3x into FRA while EK would switch their operations from FRA to BER.
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mariner
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:41 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 34):
But selling QF/EK from BER to -say BOM via DXB is not covered and why should Germany allow EK to sneak in through the back door?

I've no idea, nor do I know if they do intend to try and sell BER-DXB-BOM. As I said - I don't even know if a code share with Emirates is possible to Berlin.

I'm just posting what the CEO said - BER - and clearly he thinks it is both possible and desirable.

mariner

[Edited 2013-04-14 04:42:11]
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Quokkas
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:41 am

Quoting something (Reply 21):
According to the bilateral between Australia and Germany, Qantas can only fly to Germany via Singapore and not via Dubai

The original agreement between Germany and Australia states:

Quote:
II. Route to be operated by an airline designated by the Commonwealth of Australia:

From Australia, via points in Indonesia, Singapore or Malaya, Thailand, Burma or Ceylon, India, Pakistan, Middle East, South and South-East Europe to Frankfurt/M. and beyond to the Netherlands and/or to the United Kingdom, in both directions.

Dubai is in the Middle East.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 32):
They have authority to fly to Frankfurt or nowhere else its quite simple !

In a previous thread discussing the Qantas-Emirates tie up, I posted that Australian designated carriers could also access other destinations in Germany, including München, Düsseldorf or Köln, and Hamburg and that a MoU of (I think) 1998 indicated that Australia could access Berlin, provided that they gave up one of the other named points. The odd thing was that at the time I couldn't find an online link to the amendment that added the above-named destinations, only the link that specified the possible substitution of Berlin. I tried using the search function to find the post but ...
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rutankrd
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:45 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 33):
But I still don't see how it is "different". It is Qantas returning to a (continental) European city, but from Dubai.

We can play semantics all day.

The FACTs are clear and what is difficult about them - Until the Australian and Germany authorities alter the bilateral QF are only talking about the concept of hope.

I am not questioning the easy with which the traffic rights could/maybe transferred at some future timeframe.

In fact within the next few yearsI expect a far more reaching openskys treaty to be negotiated covering the entire EU-AU traffic rights.

Berlin's new terminal may yet still be 18 months + from opening.

QF are likely to introduce further feeders into Dubai from Perth, Brisbane and second Sydney in 2014 .

When will they receive any 789s who knows !

Fact is the Kangaroo is off of mainland europe for several years
 
rutankrd
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:49 am

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 37):
MoU of (I think) 1998 indicated that Australia could access Berlin, provided that they gave up one of the other named points.

A framework for negotiation. so as stated they have no traffic rights to Berlin - Case closed.
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:51 am

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 38):
Fact is the Kangaroo is off of mainland europe for several years

But - again - that isn't what the article said. The thrust of the article was what would happen when the 787's eventually arrive.

Then at the end of the article, he says:

"But a bigger reach for the Red Roo isn't wholly reliant on the Boeing 787-9, with Joyce also eyeing off other destinations in the shorter term.

"We're continuing to talk to Emirates about opportunities in continental Europe, and Berlin is one of them" Joyce said. "As this partnership is bedded down we'll be looking at opportunities for both airlines to expand their networks."


"The shorter term" means that BER - if it happens - isn't dependent on the arrival of the 787.

You can second guess the Qantas CEO all you want, but I'm just posting what he said, and I put rather more faith in his view of what Qantas may do than anyone else's.

mariner

[Edited 2013-04-14 04:53:06]
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rutankrd
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:56 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 40):
But - again - that isn't what the article said. The thrust of the article was what would happen with the 787's eventually arrive.

Again when will that be ?

2017 and later even the board is none committal on the Dream(Delay)liner delivery timeframe.
 
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mariner
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:01 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 41):
Again when will that be ?

2017 and later even the board is none committal on the Dream(Delay)liner delivery timeframe.

I've no idea. I don't know if Qantas will ever see the 787's. I deal in what is, not what might be.

And because BER is "in the shorter term", it clearly isn't reliant on the arrival the 787's.

mariner

[Edited 2013-04-14 05:01:34]
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rutankrd
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:08 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 42):
I've no idea. I don't know if Qantas will ever see the 787's. I deal in what is, not what might be.

And because BER is "in the shorter term", it clearly isn't reliant on the arrival the 787's.

If we deal with the what is I refer you to my previous comment and supporting evidence from Quokkas then.

Qantas do not have traffic rights at this time to Berlin and therefore its a wish list destination of the CEO.
 
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RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:42 pm

Managed to track down the 1996 amendment which was agreed and is stated to have entered into force on the 19th December 1996.

Quote:
2. Route to be operated by the airline or airlines designated by Australia:

From Australia via intermediate points to Düsseldorf or Cologne, Frankfurt/M., Hamburg and Munich and to an additional point, to be notified from time to time by the Australian aeronautical authorities, in lieu of one of the specified points in the Federal Republic of Germany, and to points beyond in both directions.

If the information shown in the ATS is correct then it would appear that the claim that QF has authority for FRA and nowhere else is false. Of course if AustLII is wrong then Mr Joyce has his work cut out.

Still, haven't been able to find the link to the 1998 text. Sorry.
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Semaex
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Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 4:17 pm

RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:06 pm

Quoting LZ129 (Reply 22):
Though it's off topic, I have to disagree. I can't think of an airport with a more diverse fleet. There are daily A318, 319, 320, 321, 300, (sometimes 310), 332, 333, 343, 346, 388, B737, 744, 748 (i and f), 757, 767, 777, (soon hopefully again: 787), and so on...

I personally also enjoy the now-and then Russian Jets and regular ATRs, Q-Series and Embraers. Not sure Avros still fly FRA.

Quoting mariner (Reply 24):
The CEO of Qantas thinks they can - and may - operate into Berlin:
Quoting rutankrd (Reply 27):
The new Berlin will offer nothing other than more low value tourists - No discredit to the city but Berlin is geographically hopeless as a Hub.
Quoting rutankrd (Reply 38):
The FACTs are clear and what is difficult about them - Until the Australian and Germany authorities alter the bilateral QF are only talking about the concept of hope.

Treates can always be discussed.
LH may not like it a lot, but to the City of Berlin, BER, AB and Germany as a whole a one-stop route would be amazing. The government will have no choice but to investigate on the matter. It's a win-win in for a lot of parties. Just not LH, but hey, with QF gone in FRA, they've been handed a delayed Easter present after all.
As to the viability of a QF or Jetstar route to BER.... with the new airport up and running, the right-sized equipment (330 or 787) and a feeder network via OW member AB, why wouldn't it be worth thinking about it at least?
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
something
Posts: 1239
Joined: Fri May 13, 2011 5:29 pm

RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:38 pm

Thank you Quokkas. For those interested, all international air service agreements Australia is currently signatory to can be found here:

http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/avi...tion/international/agreements.aspx

Quote:
GERMANY

DESIGNATION STATUS: MULTIPLE

AVAILABLE CAPACITY:
PASSENGER SERVICES
18 frequencies per week with any aircraft type

FREIGHTER SERVICES
In operating dedicated cargo services on the specified route, the designated airline or
airlines of Australia may determine the frequency, capacity and aircraft type to be
operated.

COOPERATIVE MAKETING ARRANGEMENTS:
In operating or holding out the agreed passenger and cargo services on the specified
routes, any designated airline of Australia, whether as the operating or non-operating
airline, may enter into co-operative marketing arrangements such as blocked space,
code sharing or leasing arrangements with
(a) an airline or airlines of Australia
(b) an airline or airlines of Germany, and
(c) an airline or airlines of a third country.
Further information about the conditions applying to such arrangements can be
obtained from the Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and
Local Government.
http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/avi...ster_available_capacity_080413.pdf

Also unable to find the supplemental MoU from 1998 - but assuming that it does not further restrict the original bilateral - every Australian designated carrier seems indeed to be permitted to fly to the destinations quoted by Quokkas. It therefore appears possible for Qantas to take over Emirates' flights into FRA and for EK to move their flights to BER.

Such a move would likely suggest a renegotiation of the 1959! air traffic agreement between Germany and Australia though. With no German airline currently flying to Australia, I doubt it would retain its current form.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 45):
Just not LH

And the German treasury. LH earns Germany more in tax revenue than EK does.

Quoting Semaex (Reply 45):
with QF gone in FRA, they've been handed a delayed Easter present after all.
As to the viability of a QF or Jetstar route to BER.... with the new airport up and running, the right-sized equipment (330 or 787) and a feeder network via OW member AB, why wouldn't it be worth thinking about it at least?

QF is not leaving FRA - they simply consolidate their flight with those of EK into FRA. Temporarily capacity will have been reduced, as EK doesn't increase their capacity at FRA accordingly, but they eventually will.

Furthermore, in the light of the QF-EK tie up, connections at BER are completely worthless. EK flies everywhere on their own as it is, or will be within the coming years. Where does AB fly from BER where neither EK (from DXB) nor BA (from any UK airport with EK service) don't? Besides, AB operating feeder flights for QF on behalf of EK and for themselves on behalf of EY? Slight conflict of interest..
..sick of it. -K. Pilkington.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8538
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:02 pm

Quoting Semaex (Reply 45):
LH may not like it a lot, but to the City of Berlin, BER, AB and Germany as a whole a one-stop route would be amazing. The government will have no choice but to investigate on the matter. It's a win-win in for a lot of parties

What are you talking about?

BER has one stop connections to virtually all large markets worldwide. Via FRA and MUC, DUS as well, via AMS, LHR, ZRH, IST, even via AUH and DOH and that list is not complete.

The market is fully served and offers competetive fares to the general public. It is, due to its peripheric location, not a natural hub like FRA or MUC but still has a few n/s services to the USA, Middle East and leisure destinations.

Whoever still wants to fly EK can do so by connecting train via HAM, or fly to DUS/FRA/;UC, they offer interlining.
powered by Eierlikör
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 18252
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:55 pm

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 43):
If we deal with the what is I refer you to my previous comment and supporting evidence from Quokkas then.

But Quokkas seems to present conflicting evidence.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 43):
Qantas do not have traffic rights at this time to Berlin and therefore its a wish list destination of the CEO.

Since it hasn't been announced, obviously it is his "wish list" - there may be many reasons why it may not eventuate.

I'm simply dealing with the fact that he said it.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
airproxx
Posts: 406
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 7:07 pm

RE: Qantas Last Flight To Frankfurt: 14/04/13

Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:40 pm

Quoting charliecossie (Reply 11):
I'll miss the 747 (and a 100 Euros a month) hugely. It IS the king of the skies and always will be (Tristar was the queen!).

Amen Charlie. The 747 used to rule the world, like no other aircraft did before. Anyone here claiming loving aviation history cannot forget it.

The 747 was, is, and will remain the king of the skies.

Time will tell if Qantas move was a smart one or not. But something tells me that they purely gave up on the commercial aviation battle, literally.
If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same

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