locoflyer
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United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:37 am

This mornings UAL 839 arrival just hit the media here, appears to be minor damage to the aircraft.

http://www.theage.com.au/travel/trav...in-parking-bay-20130422-2i9oy.html
 
AeroWesty
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United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:43 am

YMML = MEL for fellow airport code neanderthals like myself.
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RyanairGuru
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 5:11 am

With all due respect to The Age, did the seriously write a story about the aerobridge (jetway) being damaged so that its out of action, but managed to neglect to mention that the aircraft is also damaged to the point of being out of action?!?

UA840 MEL-SYD-LAX has been cancelled today (Mon Apr 22)
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IndianicWorld
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:18 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 2):

UA840 MEL-SYD-LAX has been cancelled today (Mon Apr 22)

Better not happen when I am flying with them next month.

It certainly doesn't give me much confidence with incidents like this, adding to the inferior product onboard also. I guess that's what you get for choosing price over other factors  
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:34 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 3):
It certainly doesn't give me much confidence with incidents like this

Are you suggesting that UA is somehow unsafe?

Whatever might be wrong with their on-board product (and there is much wrong with it) I don't doubt that their aircraft are sound and that their pilots are as well trained and professional as the competitions.

It is unfortunate that this is the second ramp incident in as many months in Australia, but the incident at SYD was a genuine accident caused by a severe gust of wind, and it is too soon to lay blame for this incident. Maybe it was the marshaller (a non-UA employee, who probably also marshalls SQ, CX etc) who is too blame? We simply have no idea at this stage.
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B747forever
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 7:48 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 3):
It certainly doesn't give me much confidence with incidents like this, adding to the inferior product onboard also. I guess that's what you get for choosing price over other factors  

Please, do not come and tell me how unsafe UA is now, and that you are afraid of your life when flying them next month. Do you even know how many flights they have every single day, without any incidents, let alone any fatalities?


Rest assured, you will be safe. I would be more worried about how to get to the airport...
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:18 am

Quoting B747forever (Reply 5):
Please, do not come and tell me how unsafe UA is now, and that you are afraid of your life when flying them next month. Do you even know how many flights they have every single day, without any incidents, let alone any fatalities?


To clarify, its not a safety thing its more about reliability that I am thinking of.

What it does do though with incidents like this is add to the situation that UA doesn't have the best reputation over here given its product mainly and things like this do little to help that. Such things fail to instill confidence.

Most people I know tried to talk me out of flying them which says a lot about the perception of the airline unfortunately.

[Edited 2013-04-22 01:36:20]
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:20 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 4):
Are you suggesting that UA is somehow unsafe?

No. It was answered in my next post. It becomes more about a perception of reliability than anything.

I wouldn't choose to fly them if I thought they were unsafe.
 
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EK413
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:55 am

Guess who picked up the stranded passengers

I've flown United back in 2001 & the IFE product was well overdue for an upgrade not sure if anything has changed since then? However, in saying that the customer service was fantastic!

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:59 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 8):
I've flown United back in 2001 & the IFE product was well overdue for an upgrade not sure if anything has changed since then?

Apparently it hasn't. They are in the process of making some Y changes soon but mostly the product remains as is.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 8):
Guess who picked up the stranded passengers

QF?
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:09 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 7):
No. It was answered in my next post.

Got it!

Quoting EK413 (Reply 8):
not sure if anything has changed since then?

Nope! At least not in Y, F and J have AVOD (and flat beds) but Y is still something out of the 80s

Quoting EK413 (Reply 8):
Guess who picked up the stranded passengers

Well I'm guessing they would have carried as many ex-SYD pax as they could themselves via SFO. But I'm sure you point was that QF took the remainder.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
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EK413
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 10:50 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 9):

Apparently it hasn't. They are in the process of making some Y changes soon but mostly the product remains as is.
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 8):
not sure if anything has changed since then?

Nope! At least not in Y, F and J have AVOD (and flat beds) but Y is still something out of the 80s

Damn thanks for the update. I felt like I was stuck in the 70's / 80's so it's nice to see things have really improved!

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 9):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 8):
Guess who picked up the stranded passengers

QF?
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
But I'm sure you point was that QF took the remainder.

Spot on... I'm curious why VA don't pickup the passenger's in such situations...?

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
usscvr
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 2:39 pm

Even though the CO has the overall responsibility for the AC, the CO would be following the instructions of the marshaller. And the Aerobridge/Jetway would likely have an operator onboard. So, who is ultimately responsibile for this mishap?

My thought is that the aerobridge/jetway operator should have the unit out of the way of the incoming aircraft. The CO should have an idea that (perhaps) the aerobridge/jetway could be too close, and the marshaller should have had good situational awareness before parking the AC.

How would this play out? Will any of the players be held accountable for this? Do company policies address this sort of thing? Are government agencies involved?

Just curious. Any and all responses appreciated.
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jayunited
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 3:55 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 3):
Better not happen when I am flying with them next month.

It certainly doesn't give me much confidence with incidents like this, adding to the inferior product onboard also. I guess that's what you get for choosing price over other factors  
Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 6):
To clarify, its not a safety thing its more about reliability that I am thinking of.

What it does do though with incidents like this is add to the situation that UA doesn't have the best reputation over here given its product mainly and things like this do little to help that. Such things fail to instill confidence.

First of all United operates thousands of flights a day safely and they are reliable.

With only one flight a day to MEL I'm sure that station has been contracted out to an outside vendor. That being said you have not clue who is at fault in this accident perhaps the jet bridge was improperly positioned for the arrival, the marshaler could have brought the aircraft in past its designated spot, and lastly perhaps the pilots brought the aircraft into the gate to fast and when the marshaler gave the "X" to stop the airplane they kept rolling a few inches striking the bridge. United onboard product has nothing to do with this incident that happened in MEL so I don't understand why you even brought that up seeing that it has nothing to do with what actually happened.

And if you are so concerned and worried about United's safety and reliability why did you buy a ticket to fly? United's ticket prices are not the cheapest when flying to/from Australia.
 
FlyFree27
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:57 pm

Does anyone actually know if they park these planes manually or with a Light Bar system in MEL? It takes a lot of gate space to marshall in a 747 by hand, unless you have something very tall to stand up on. Wide body crews are aware that space is usually pretty tight with planes in this class (747,777, and the 380), I highly doubt he rolled the 8-10 ft past his stop point with either a marshaller or guide system. If the light bar system is used here it may have been set to the wrong aircraft type. Most likely the jet bridge was probably just not out of the clearance zone, I wonder if a 767 or 330/340 was on the gate before... However this is most likely ground handling at fault for not noticing and the previous gate agents fault for not pulling the jet bridge into the designated area. These were not UA employees, definitely contracted out, but they still have to do all the UA widebody web based training.
 
tribird1011
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 8:20 pm

Quoting FlyFree27 (Reply 14):
Most likely the jet bridge was probably just not out of the clearance zone,

The article states that the plane "overshot" the parking bay (I wasn't there, so I don't know), but if this is accurate (and these reports usually are    ) we may say that the jetway was in it's proper place.

Assuming that to be true, the blame will either fall on the pilot for not stopping when instructed (either by the marshaller, or the light bar), or to the marshaller for not giving the stop sign in time.

And if the article is incorrect (bridge out of position), then blame tends to go more to ground crew/marshaller for not verifying that the area was clear.
 
md80fanatic
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:56 pm

Not surprised at the strength of aircraft aluminum. If it didn't have those Krueger slats inboard it'd be a simple replacement. This damage will not be cheap ... critical section of wing LE is damaged. It could not have hit a more expensive spot IMHO.
 
B747forever
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:03 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 6):
Most people I know tried to talk me out of flying them which says a lot about the perception of the airline unfortunately.

Their product might be inferior to the competitors but there is no way that you can draw a conclusion about their reliability from this single incident when we even don't know whose fault it was.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:21 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 11):
I'm curious why VA don't pickup the passenger's in such situations

It's a normal commercial transaction, UA would have bought those seats of QF. Maybe VA charge more? Or it might just be that UA and QF have a reciprocal agreement to give each other preferential pricing when things go pear-shape on their Aus-USA routes?
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
quiet1
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:25 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
They are in the process of making some Y changes soon but mostly the product remains as is.

What changes are coming in Y? Hard product? Soft product? Both? (fingers crossed)
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:55 am

Quoting quiet1 (Reply 19):
What changes are coming in Y? Hard product? Soft product? Both?

I didn't quote that, but I didn't think was going to be further changes to Y on the 744 fleet? They've all got the new seats and side panels (whoop!) and they've supposedly "upgraded" the catering to CO standards (or was that J only?). Beyond that I didn't think anything else was on its way.

I hope that UA launch IAH-SYD at some point, or failing that downgauge a 744 to 772. I have been flying Continental for practically as long as I've been alive, and therefore have a very soft spot for United. I am a MileagePlus member and would very gladly put it to much better use if they would simply offer something as basic as AVOD to Australia! In the mean time I am sure that QF appreciate my loyalty and status.
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Cipango
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:07 am

Anyone know what registration this was?
Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
 
airplanecrazy
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:19 am

Quoting cipango (Reply 21):
Anyone know what registration this was?

I believe it was Ship 8419 Registration N119UA.
 
mmo
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:57 am

Well, now that all the UA bashing has ceased and the discussion about Y/J/F products has cease, we can return to the topic as posted.

From a friend based in YMML, turns out the guidance system for the gate was set for 330. So, to calm IndianicWorld's worries, you can rest assured the incident has nothing to do with the airline at all. Remember you from either seat in the cockpit, you can not see the wing root area at all.
If we weren't all crazy we'd all go insane
 
DeltaB717
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:07 am

Quoting airplanecrazy (Reply 22):
I believe it was Ship 8419 Registration N119UA.

flightaware has N119UA in MEL since yesterday morning's UA839.
 
FlyFree27
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:49 am

Quoting mmo (Reply 23):
turns out the guidance system for the gate was set for 330
Quoting FlyFree27 (Reply 14):
If the light bar system is used here it may have been set to the wrong aircraft type.

Thanks for the info, this was one of two thing I had suspected.
 
davs5032
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:08 am

Pretty much echoing what others have already said, but I'd think it very unlikely that the pilot was at fault here. IMO, there's no way the jet bridge (in its correct position) would be located any less than 10 feet away from the space that any portion of a correctly-parked 747 would occupy. Therefore, the only way the captain would be at fault here would be if he kept rolling another 10+ feet past where he was to stop, and assuming the captain wasn't sleeping, I highly doubt this would occur. I'd bet on either a jet bridge where it shouldn't have been (maybe the captain's responsible for spotting if way out of place(?)) or a malfunctioning light bar/marshaller.
 
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EK413
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 9:21 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 18):

It's a normal commercial transaction, UA would have bought those seats of QF. Maybe VA charge more? Or it might just be that UA and QF have a reciprocal agreement to give each other preferential pricing when things go pear-shape on their Aus-USA routes?

Cheers, thanks for clarifying it for me. You scratch my back & I'll scratch I guess.

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
VH-BZF
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 12:06 pm

I've heard from a source down in Melbourne that the aircraft arrived at the gate, the Captain thought he had engaged the brakes, however apparently they weren't on, so as the Captain & FO went through the after shut down check list, they didn't notice that the aircraft started to roll forward and into the doors 2 aero bridge.

Melbourne has NIGS for all aircraft at its international terminal I'm reliably informed. My engineering mate from QF here in Sydney said that QF place chocks around the nose wheels as soon as they are on blox.

Anyway it's just what I heard, I wonder whether United will ask Boeing to send down their recovery team to do the fix to the leading edge?

BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
United1
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 1:18 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):
Quoting quiet1 (Reply 19):
What changes are coming in Y? Hard product? Soft product? Both?

I didn't quote that, but I didn't think was going to be further changes to Y on the 744 fleet? They've all got the new seats and side panels (whoop!) and they've supposedly "upgraded" the catering to CO standards (or was that J only?). Beyond that I didn't think anything else was on its way.

UA is rolling out satellite based WiFi on the 744 fleet that besides letting you surf the internet will stream prerecorded video (same content as on the AVOD system) to any WiFi enabled device...in other words bring your tablet/laptop with you. 2 of the 23 744s have the system activated already and 3 more are in the shop getting it. Later this year UA is scheduled to start retrofitting power ports into Y class on the 744's.

Quoting Locoflyer (Thread starter):
minor damage to the aircraft.

....not so minor. That's going to be some work.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
JAGflyer
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:05 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 29):
will stream prerecorded video (same content as on the AVOD system)

Great idea! Use up bandwidth and reduce the speed of other's connections in order to stream media that is available on the IFE...talk about redundancy.

As for the 747, this is a full puncture of the wing-root LE. When it comes to planes, even a small dent/scratch can require costly repairs (doubler plates, etc). I'm not sure how they repair this type of damage as I am sure you cannot install a doubler or tripler plate in this location. I'm thinking a new LE section at the wing-root?
Support the beer and soda can industry, your recycle old airplanes!
 
United1
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting jagflyer (Reply 30):
Great idea! Use up bandwidth and reduce the speed of other's connections in order to stream media that is available on the IFE...talk about redundancy.

Not really a bandwidth issue as the content is stored on the aircraft.....they are not streaming it from the ground. IFE is starting to head this direction, AVOD in seat is not exactly old technology but this is a cheaper/lighter option that Airlines are starting to look at.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
davs5032
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 6:19 pm

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 28):
I've heard from a source down in Melbourne that the aircraft arrived at the gate, the Captain thought he had engaged the brakes, however apparently they weren't on, so as the Captain & FO went through the after shut down check list, they didn't notice that the aircraft started to roll forward and into the doors 2 aero bridge.

If true, I suppose I'll have to eat my words.   
 
lax777lr
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:22 pm

Quoting jagflyer (Reply 30):
Great idea! Use up bandwidth and reduce the speed of other's connections in order to stream media that is available on the IFE...talk about redundancy.

The LAN almost has plenty of bandwith for the OD content onboard, it's the WAN connection that would be hosed with lots of users pulling or pushing rich media...

Back to damaged 744s......
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Wed Apr 24, 2013 1:27 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 29):
A is rolling out satellite based WiFi on the 744 fleet that besides letting you surf the internet will stream prerecorded video (same content as on the AVOD system) to any WiFi enabled device...in other words bring your tablet/laptop with you

That's fantastic. Thanks for sharing

Quoting United1 (Reply 29):
Later this year UA is scheduled to start retrofitting power ports into Y class on the 744's.

That was my next question, that is really great to hear! Obviously a laptop or iPad won't last 14 hours, so putting power ports in has solved that problem.

In light of this I'm quite looking forward to flying UA now! Next time I go to the USA I will strongly consider them.

Quoting jagflyer (Reply 30):
Great idea! Use up bandwidth and reduce the speed of other's connections in order to stream media that is available on the IFE...talk about redundanc

QF are rolling this out on their 767 fleet, and from what I've experienced it is a very good system. It provides you with AVOD, without actually having to go to the cost of installing it.
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
quiet1
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:37 am

Quoting jagflyer (Reply 30):
Great idea! Use up bandwidth and reduce the speed of other's connections in order to stream media that is available on the IFE...talk about redundancy.

It's not redundant for the folks in Y/Y+ who would otherwise only have access to whatever single thing is showing at the time on the montiors on the bulkheads/over the aisles. With the new system, the folks in Y/Y+ -- at least the ones with WiFi-capable devices -- will finally have access to the IFE that F/C have had since the last cabin update (IPTE).
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:55 am

What I have been reading so far says it may have been related to the parking brake on the A/C.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
smi0006
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:29 am

Quoting mmo (Reply 23):
From a friend based in YMML, turns out the guidance system for the gate was set for 330. So, to calm IndianicWorld's worries, you can rest assured the incident has nothing to do with the airline at all

Not quiet the guidance system flashes that aircraft type that it is set to, thus the Captain should have seen it was set to an A330, in addition airlines are responsible for their ground handers. I personally don't see the point in separating the two. Thats like if there is an incident where fatalities are involved and it goes back to out sourced engineering. Hardly makes any difference to the passengers or families. The only relevant part is what airline.

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 26):
IMO, there's no way the jet bridge (in its correct position) would be located any less than 10 feet away from the space that any portion of a correctly-parked 747 would occupy.

I have been on bridges where the distance is about 1m, so it is possible. Further to this the guidance system and the bridges at Melbourne are linked. If the Aerobridge is not pre-set for the aircraft type selected on the guidance system, or alternatively is not in its 'home' position the guidance system will indicate STOP to the tech crew.

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 28):

I've heard from a source down in Melbourne that the aircraft arrived at the gate, the Captain thought he had engaged the brakes, however apparently they weren't on, so as the Captain & FO went through the after shut down check list, they didn't notice that the aircraft started to roll forward and into the doors 2 aero bridge.

This is what I have her also.
 
airplanecrazy
Posts: 36
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RE: United 744 Strikes Aerobridge At Melbourne Tullamarine

Thu May 02, 2013 2:27 am

Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 24):
flightaware has N119UA in MEL since yesterday morning's UA839.

Looks like N119UA has been fixed:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N119UA

Ship is now at SFO and is scheduled to fly to Kansai tomorrow.

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