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OA260
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Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:57 am

A news article suggesting Pan Am may launch flights in 2014. With all the re launches over the years does this actually cheapen the memory of the brand ?

It seems that they never last long each time they are revived.

Will PAN AM be back in early 2014 ?

Pan American Airways has entered into an operational agreement with a premiere consultancy boutique, that will provide comprehensive in-depth services to complete a formal reintegration plan for the Pan American brand into many LCC and Charter markets as a provider of US Part 121 scheduled services, with a projected point of entry taking place in late Q4 of 2013 through late Q1 of 2014

http://www.eturbonews.com/34553/will-pan-am-be-back-early-2014
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:22 am

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
With all the re launches over the years does this actually cheapen the memory of the brand ?

It doesn't cheapen the memory, but I could care less about what some fly-by-night is attempting to do at the moment with the name as a marketing gimmick for the umpteenth time.
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NASCARAirforce
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:00 am

Lets see - so they can start again and then go belly up in 2 years? We've heard this story before.
 
vegas005
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:20 am

An Eastern Airlines to start-up again ... story next (and repeated next year, and the year after etc...)
 
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:57 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 2):
Lets see - so they can start again and then go belly up in 2 years? We've heard this story before.

How many times have we heard this indeed   I see this being another failed attempt to serve a niche market.
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:05 am

Agree on all accounts, most likely a capital-raising gimmic that will never see the light of day.

But as the screen name implies, I can't resist a brief moment of hope at the thought of seeing the blue globe in the sky again. Pan Am was, it is no more and it should never be again.
 
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:07 am

While I'd love to see the brand back in the air, because it's so powerful even now (same for Braniff), I really don't care to see the next destined-to-fail-attempt to revive it as some cheap marketing trick.
On top of that, "LCC and Charter" goes completely against everything the PanAm brand stands for in my eyes.
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:22 pm

There is not a market for the old Pan-Am anymore. , not in the US at any rate where competition is rife.

Only the Middle Eastern and Asian carriers with 5-star ratings can afford to capture the quality and luxury Pan Am was known for.

Why won't they just let it rest in peace?
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:45 pm

The real problem is-no one has been able to raise enough capital to start it correctly. You'd need 6-8 billion and about 2-3 years of prep work to get off the ground with a reasonable chance of recreating Pan Am. Short of that-it's hard to take these attempts seriously.
 
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:51 pm

This attempt has a fractionally better chance than prior thanks to the PanAm TV show. (Bummer not enough people watched it to continue...)

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
for the Pan American brand into many LCC and Charter markets

What?!? That isn't PanAm...

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 7):
Only the Middle Eastern and Asian carriers with 5-star ratings can afford to capture the quality and luxury Pan Am was known for.

   And that era is gone. I do not see how a LCC will sustain off the PanAm name...

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FlyPeoria
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:00 pm

Does this involve Guilford Transportation, the owner of the Pan Am name and Trademark? I didn't see anything about Guilford in the article.

Keep in mind that their Guilford Rail System is now called "Pan Am Railways" and uses the Pan Am logo on its locomotives, rolling stock and other equipment.

http://www.guilfordrail.com/
 
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:29 pm

I'll say this: Unless you are capable to achieve anything near what positive is associated with that great name, leave it alone. The real Pan Am is long gone.

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 10):
Does this involve Guilford Transportation, the owner of the Pan Am name and Trademark? I didn't see anything about Guilford in the article.

Good question.
 
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:52 pm

If they aren't going to place in service the , 727, the 747-200 or L-1011's, then it's a moot point and I will not fly with them. Same can be said for a, " New" Eastern start up as well!!!


 

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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:03 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
This attempt has a fractionally better chance than prior thanks to the PanAm TV show. (Bummer not enough people watched it to continue...)

It was not that great a show, and quite frankly it is would not have garnered the amount of viewers if not for the PA name and the nostalgic trend in TV today with Mad Men and a different vein the new Dallas. I am still waiting for Magnum P.I. and Simon and Simon to make a return as well as Gilligans Island.

Quoting FlyPeoria (Reply 10):
Does this involve Guilford Transportation, the owner of the Pan Am name and Trademark? I didn't see anything about Guilford in the article.

Keep in mind that their Guilford Rail System is now called "Pan Am Railways" and uses the Pan Am logo on its locomotives, rolling stock and other equipment.

http://www.guilfordrail.com/

This is my understanding that Guilford Transportation owns the name and the logo and companies have already tried to buy the name before and either Guilford was not interested or the price was too much. Pan Am built their airline on a reputation of providing a unique experience in the air and when there became competition for that market, they could not compete. People who think that the name alone will create that mystique and lure suckers to that airline are truly stupid and will fail just like all the previous times there have been so called visionaries thinking that they know better than other people and of course will fail. Watch this and learn why Pan Am could never go back:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5w62jHUovM
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 5:45 pm

Technically, the PAN AM marks that pertain to rail transport services and those with the globe logo that pertain to luggage, coffee cups, shirts, etc. are owned by Pan American World Airways, Inc. of Dover NH. The correspondent for those registrations, however, is also corporate counsel for Boston & Maine Corporation.
 
135mech
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:17 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 9):
This attempt has a fractionally better chance than prior thanks to the PanAm TV show. (Bummer not enough people watched it to continue...)

Agreed! It's sad that not enough people watched it, but it didn't have the ADD/ADHD market captured to keep it around! Loved that show and it's cast!

As many have stated... (the original) Pan Am was truly a work of art... elite... classy... and they earned that status to claim to their great name! There is so much amazing history with that airline...HOWEVER that was BEFORE de-regulation and everyone running (needing to) cut-throat prices and the like.

Pan Am (very sadly) is not for this day and age and people should let it (as they say) Rest In Peace!

Regards,
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:15 pm

What happened to the "Pan Am" that was going to start up as a cargo airline, based in Brownsville, TX? Just another pie in the sky?
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:18 pm

While I couldn't agree more with you guys, it would be nice to see another airline enter the mix. With all of the consolidations occurring lately we could use another carrier in our industry.
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:31 pm

Quoting braniff722 (Reply 12):

Goodness- I never realized they ever had the Tristar- but I checked- they really had a total of twelve for almost ( only) five years!

But I remember the Berlin FRA shuttle 727 very well. It flew through my sector I controlled for many years.
Watching it land in MUC was exciting- the Pilots must have had a bet going who could lower the gear latest.
I more than once saw the gear come out just over the fence!!
They also flew a lot of the first Airbuses. Hard to believe such an Icon is only in our memories today- and only in the older ones as well. Everyone in the business today under thirty doesn´t know "the Clipper". Some even think it´s a Hollywood airline made up for DiCaprio. Getting old is terrible!!
 
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:35 pm

Quoting peterjohns (Reply 18):
Quoting braniff722 (Reply 12):

Goodness- I never realized they ever had the Tristar- but I checked- they really had a total of twelve for almost ( only) five years!

Pan Am's 12 L-1011-500s were best avoided, at least in Y class, as they had 10-abreast charter-type seating,

Three were sold to DL and 3 to the Royal Air Force in 1984/85. The other 6 went to UA in 1986 as part of the Pacific route purchase deal. UA operated them very briefly and sold 5 to DL and one to LTU in 1988/89. So DL eventually wound up with 8 of the 12 Pan Am L15s.
 
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:52 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 17):
While I couldn't agree more with you guys, it would be nice to see another airline enter the mix. With all of the consolidations occurring lately we could use another carrier in our industry

It would be nice if the industry were able to treat people like human beings as well, but it doesn't. Actually there are plenty of airlines in the United States. Most other countries would be only so lucky to have the choice that the Americans have. How many more airlines are needed in the United States. There are still plenty of airlines that are not always in a rosie financial way. The reason for consolidation is that there is too much capacity in the air still and I would not be surprised if we see another bankruptcy before the decade is out of a larger sized airline.
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:06 pm

It reminds me in a sad way of SAAB, and how they (just the name, that is...) are dabbling in the electric car business. A part of me just wants to see them hold on in hopes of somehow weathering the current storm and coming out on top, but who's fooling who? It will never be the same.
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:55 pm

Quoting peterjohns (Reply 18):

Goodness- I never realized they ever had the Tristar- but I checked- they really had a total of twelve for almost ( only) five years!

PAA like Eastern at one time managed to fly each first generation jumbo/wide body.


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Just like the Police Acadamey, Die Hard and Airport movies these rebirth's of Pan Am in the air, one loses count. I'd like to see the globe fly again but, you'd have more of a chance having the Cubs win the World Series than the latest incarnation of Pan Am being big, bold and successful and elegant like the original.
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:08 am

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
Pan Am's 12 L-1011-500s were best avoided, at least in Y class, as they had 10-abreast charter-type seating,

Yes, Pan Am L-1011s were configured in a 3-4-3 layout in Y Class. I flew on one in 1984 from JFK to DFW. I don't recall that airplane being uncomfortable in Y Class.
TWA and Delta configured those with a 2-5-2 layout. Eastern, I don't know.

Anyway, nice to hear they might come back. I'm wondering if they will fly to JFK and MIA because those were their hubs. What aircraft would they fly? Probably the A320, because that's what the original Pan Am was thinking of buying, the 727 and the A300 are too old. I don't think there are that many used passenger 727s and A300s available on the market. When the second Pan Am was reborn in 1996, the A300 was still young at that time.

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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:29 am

With respect to the comparison that a true Pan Am re-start would have to encompass the service and luxury of carriers the likes of Emirates, et. al....

Is there a single city in the Americas perfectly positioned to serve the world with the range of today's aircraft, much like DXB, providing the perfect one-stop connection between the world's top markets?
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:43 am

Quoting thorntot (Reply 24):

Here's an idea out of left field; Let Emirates buy the name and become the new Pan Am classic. They are probably the closest model to the classic Pan Am we all wax nastalgic.
Of course they'd have to exponentially expand in the United States with significant presence in such PAA stalwarts as MIA, JFK etc.

[Edited 2013-04-25 18:11:58]
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Mcoov
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:49 am

If only these guys could focus on their railroad instead.
I live near it (ex-B&M and MEC), and from about 1986 to 2009 (it was Guilford until 2006. They bought the Pan Am name in '99), it was a total joke, as the owners refused to spend any money that they didn't have to. Tracks speeds dropped from 35-45 mph to 25 mph at best. Lots of places on the mainlines were speed-restricted 10 or even 5 mph due to crappy track maintenance, and trains would often can (their workers' hours would expire) enroute and be stranded in middle-of-nowhere, ME. It has gotten a lot better, but there are still a lot of problem areas, and the years of damage has been done.

Good lord, I'm ranting about a regional railroad with crappy management on an airplane forum!
 
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Fri Apr 26, 2013 12:55 am

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):
Will PAN AM be back in early 2014 ?

We're talking about a word, a name, that has NOTHING to do with the original Pan Am. This is no different than if I named my dog "Pan Am." You can recycle and reassign the name as many times as you want; the real Pan American World Airways has been gone for more than 20 years and can never be revived.
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:34 am

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 22):
, you'd have more of a chance having the Cubs win the World Series

2015.

:D
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:44 am

Quoting OA260 (Thread starter):

  oh look another company is going to try to restart a failed airline.

Quoting mayor (Reply 16):

never really became much AFAIK

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 25):
Let Emirates buy the name and become the new Pan Am classic.

Or.....not.
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:51 am

Quoting aviateur (Reply 27):
You can recycle and reassign the name as many times as you want; the real Pan American World Airways has been gone for more than 20 years and can never be revived.

  

I don't understand why people want to revive these old airline names. It wouldn't be the same airline and there are reasons why the originals went bust.

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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:04 am

The only surviving and original division of Pan Am still in business today is the Pan Am International Flight Academy, which never shut down. It was allowed to remain open during the bankruptcy procedures and was spun off as in independent company in 1992.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XyuLpq6arY

[Edited 2013-04-26 01:05:50]
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:07 am

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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:51 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 23):
TWA and Delta configured those with a 2-5-2 layout. Eastern, I don't know.

Eastern also 2-5-2, after their original 2-4-2 (like most other early L-1011 and DC-10 operators). Eastern 2-5-2 seat map here.
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/freque...p-eastern-airlines-l-1011-tristar/

United L-1011-500 seat map with the ex-Pan Am 3-4-3 Y seating. Interesting that the 2-4-2 business class seating then was the same as the original Y class on most L-1011s and DC-10s.
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/freque...at-map-united-airlines-l-1011-500/
 
doulasc
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:30 pm

Where will this new Pan Am fly to? will it be in all 4 corners of the globe like the original? Let Pan Am and TWA RIP. Hope they are successful in the after life. Lets enjoy the memories of them.
 
pliersinsight
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:47 pm

Quoting doulasc (Reply 34):

Where will this new Pan Am fly to? will it be in all 4 corners of the globe like the original? Let Pan Am and TWA RIP.

According to the interwebs TWA is still around

www.twa.com


 
 
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:11 pm

Quoting thorntot (Reply 24):
Is there a single city in the Americas perfectly positioned to serve the world with the range of today's aircraft, much like DXB, providing the perfect one-stop connection between the world's top markets?

LAX.

Quoting aviateur (Reply 27):
We're talking about a word, a name, that has NOTHING to do with the original Pan Am. This is no different than if I named my dog "Pan Am." You can recycle and reassign the name as many times as you want; the real Pan American World Airways has been gone for more than 20 years and can never be revived.

You would need someone with about 10+ billion to invest in this, and then be willing to absorb losses for at least 7 years, as new airlines take a lot longer than most businesses to show a profit. As well, they would have to be able to dump capacity along established legacy entrenchments, while offering a superior product with superior usefulness (i.e. mileage programs, connections to useful cities & frequency times, etc), all while charging prices that will destabilize a lot of LCCs while they're at it. If they're serious about being an airline with real presence, there is no way to survive entry without muscling in on the big three in such a way that they'll have to offer code sharing, rather than give it the F9 treatment. This also means having enough to pay people very well (which will avoid the near suicidal CBA's that AA still has in force), in exchange for great productivity. They'd also have to have enough to buy whatever political protection they'll need to establish and then stay on the routes they need/want.

So, between all that and new, PAX desirable, efficient and reliable fleet (lease or buy; makes no difference here), I would say at least 10 billion to get (and stay!) off the ground. Do these guys have that? Me thinks no.
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:15 pm

What's in a name? There will be a new Airline named Pan Am ... it won't be the same as before and the golden Jet age won't resurrect. Labelling a town in Iowa "Maui" wont make it a a city on tropical Island in the Pacific!
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:56 pm

May be I'm ignorant, but the news release does not have any contact information for the airline's PR department. The writing is rather unprofessional (what the heck is a consultation boutique?) I'm getting the vibe that this is a hoax. Anyone remember Emil Banard and his "Global Airlines Corp" wanting to buy TWA?
 
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:09 pm

Its about marketing nostalgia, heck that guy is Oz is doing the same thing with the Titanic.

http://news.msn.com/pop-culture/Aust...naire-plans-to-rebuild-the-titanic

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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:00 pm

Quoting PHX Flyer (Reply 38):
May be I'm ignorant, but the news release does not have any contact information for the airline's PR department.

eturbonews edited the original press release, here is a link to a fuller version.
http://www.prlog.org/12124456-pan-am...hts-on-service-for-early-2014.html

This organization originally started in 2012. They are based in Cherry Hill, NJ and currently are using a different logo (world map with paa on it).

Here are the website and social media sites for those who want to follow this attempt.

http://www.paaglobal.com/

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Pan-Am...Airways-Global-USA/258064180981652

http://www.linkedin.com/company/pan-american-airways-global-holdings

https://twitter.com/paaglobal


[Edited 2013-04-29 10:37:05]
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:11 pm

If someone is going to waste their $ on this scheme, why don't they at least take a shot with a name like Eastern or TWA? Both of those would be better than the snottyness PanAM.
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:22 pm

What "boutique consulting firm" is this?

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 7):
Only the Middle Eastern and Asian carriers with 5-star ratings can afford to capture the quality and luxury Pan Am was known for.

Best to leave PA memories as they never were: myths and misconceptions of a carrier that was largely a disaster and whose quality was reminiscent of today's domestic first class.

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 22):

PAA like Eastern at one time managed to fly each first generation jumbo/wide body.

Worked out great for them! 
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777way
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:15 pm

Can Pan Am name be franchised out of the US? if some one wants to set up a three plane fleet airline to fly from their country to the US to cater their ethic community living there?
 
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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 40):
Here are the website and social media sites for those who want to follow this attempt.

http://www.paaglobal.com/

Thanks for posting that link. I just discovered they stole one of my photos for their page...

http://www.moose135photography.com/photos/i-NvTfh3P/0/XL/i-NvTfh3P-XL.jpg


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RE: Pan Am Set For A Come Back In 2014 New Flights?

Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:27 am

Quoting moose135 (Reply 44):
Thanks for posting that link. I just discovered they stole one of my photos for their page...

Heck of a way to discover they took it without permission.
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