Gonzalo
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:03 pm

I'm looking at reports of a civilian cargo plane down near of Bagram Air Field in Afghanistan :

http://english.sina.com/world/2013/0429/586461.html


http://features.rr.com/article/048C4jm2C382g?q=Afghanistan

Anyone with more details ??

Rgds.
G.

( Edited to add link ).

[Edited 2013-04-29 06:04:16]
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airtran737
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:05 pm

National Cargo 747. Sounds like a load shift from what I have heard.

RIP to those that were lost.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
Gonzalo
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:08 pm

Quoting airtran737 (Reply 1):
National Cargo 747.

Ufff.... how sad, probably a 3 or 4 man crew ?... Let's hope there are survivors   


Rgds.
G.
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KPDX
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:14 pm

 

Not looking too good...


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oofPmCfECcE/UX5vwlkSgSI/AAAAAAAAAGI/yOKhssfGyGk/s1600/pcrash.jpg
http://2008alerts.blogspot.com/2013/...-civilian-cargo-plane-crashes.html

Awaiting more details.
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Gonzalo
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:19 pm

Quoting KPDX (Reply 3):
Awaiting more details.

NOT Confirmed yet, but all the rumours on the web are talking about a National Cargo 747 ( stall shortly after take off and crashed ). Definitely not a good sight in that pic.

Rgds.
G.
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PHX787
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:12 pm

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LGA777
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:34 pm

This Beautiful ex Air France bird appears to be the aircraft lost today.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Manny Gonzalez - Thrust Images



RIP to all who where lost today.

LGA777
 
Gonzalo
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:46 pm

Quoting LGA777 (Reply 7):
This Beautiful ex Air France bird appears to be the aircraft lost today.

Delivered to Air France 1993, ex F-GISE.

The National Cargo livery is really beautiful. The NAC website has not published anything about this accident, probably waiting for more accurate information about what happened.

Rgds.
G.
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rlwynn
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:50 pm

I saw this at theloadstar.co.


http://theloadstar.co.uk/breaking-ne...ational-air-cargo-crash-at-bagram/
"I witnessed this crash today and there was no Taliban involvement i can tell you this for sure the 747 Took off and commenced a quite steep climb out not unusual for here then one of two things happened in my opinion either the strong head wind or a micro up burst caused it to pith upward at what looked to be at least 85deg. Nose up or the cargo shifted to the rear and caused it to nose up. it then did what all swept wing aircraft do in a stall and pitched left at about 1200 Ft AGL then it seemed like the pilot tried to correct and it pitched right and headed for the ground just before impact it looked like it had flattened out to nearly level but had very little or no forward speed what followed was the ground shook followed by a large ball of fire and a huge black cloud of smoke. I truly wish i had not seen this but i did and my prayers and thoughts go out to all involved both on board and the family and loved ones of the crew and passengers."

[Edited 2013-04-29 08:01:33]
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KPDX
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:26 pm

Wow, that sounds extremely frightening. Can't imagine seeing that with my own eyes.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 6):
Moderators, can you please change the name of the thread to clarify the Airline and aircraft type ? ( I can't, the post was over 60 minutes now ) .

Agreed. I'd suggest the moderators change the title to note it's a National 744.
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PHX787
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:39 pm

Update from AVHerald, I'll summarize here:

Reg: N949CA
A/c: B. 747-428M (BCF)
Airline: National Airlines
Aircraft age- 20 years (1993 delivery to AF)

All 8 crew are reported perished in the crash.

Afghan Authorities immediately denied claims that the crash of a large civilian cargo aircraft was the result of enemy activities. A large fire erupted after the aircraft impacted ground
(quote from AVHerald)
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na
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:51 pm

R.I.P. to the crew. So sad to hear about the loss of such a beautiful plane.
 
SpaceshipDC10
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:53 pm

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 9):
just before impact it looked like it had flattened out to nearly level but had very little or no forward speed

Must be very weird to witness such thing.
 
capri
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National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:01 pm

http://www.flightradar24.com/#!/2013-04-28/15:50/NCR510

this was its last recorded flight yesterday 28/04 on flight radar

R.I.P to all the crew and prayers for their family
 
Gonzalo
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:05 pm

This comment in the AvHerald report is heart breaking :

" My brother was the FO for that flight. Just got confirmation from our mother he passed away."

All my sympathies to the crew members, families and friends.

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 9):
then did what all swept wing aircraft do in a stall and pitched left at about 1200 Ft AGL then it seemed like the pilot tried to correct and it pitched right and headed for the ground just before impact it looked like it had flattened out to nearly level but had very little or no forward speed

They hadn't the altitude to correct anything in an aircraft of that size/weight.

Probably being in a war zone they had selected a climb rate higher tan usual, and that only makes the things worst.

Rgds.
G.
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tommytoyz
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:50 pm

Normally, they fly out empty out of Bagram. The take of is max climb and maneuver with climbing 360 turns. Perhaps run away trim or they engaged the autopilot at that point which commanded nose up.

However, if they did have cargo, a shift would seem like the most likely issue.
 
Gatorman96
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 15):
Normally, they fly out empty out of Bagram.

This may have been the case for past cargo operations out of BAF, but with the drawdown, I would strongly doubt a 747 would go out empty...
Cha brro
 
Flyer732
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:00 pm

Quoting tommytoyz (Reply 15):
The take of is max climb and maneuver with climbing 360 turns. Perhaps run away trim or they engaged the autopilot at that point which commanded nose up.

However, if they did have cargo, a shift would seem like the most likely issue.

In all my flights in and out of Bagram in everything from DC-10s to 747s, I've never done a spiraling climb.
The initial reports say that it did have cargo on board.
 
Gonzalo
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:00 pm

Just in case, there is a Family Information Call Center published in the National Air Cargo website, 888-705-7560.

http://www.nationalaircargo.com/info...tion_related_to_Flight_NCR102.aspx

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G.
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United727
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:12 pm

How would one track where this plane has been over the past couple weeks? There was a National B744 parked bear hear last week. Wondering if it was the same a/c??
 
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cjg225
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:14 pm

Horrible news. RIP.

When an airfield is being run by a military, what type of rescue/firefighting equipment is usually on-hand as compared to, say, a typical large American airport?

[Edited 2013-04-29 10:16:13]
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migair54
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:15 pm

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 8):
"I witnessed this crash today and there was no Taliban involvement i can tell you this for sure the 747 Took off and commenced a quite steep climb out not unusual for here then one of two things happened in my opinion either the strong head wind or a micro up burst caused it to pith upward at what looked to be at least 85deg. Nose up or the cargo shifted to the rear and caused it to nose up. it then did what all swept wing aircraft do in a stall and pitched left at about 1200 Ft AGL then it seemed like the pilot tried to correct and it pitched right and headed for the ground just before impact it looked like it had flattened out to nearly level but had very little or no forward speed what followed was the ground shook followed by a large ball of fire and a huge black cloud of smoke. I truly wish i had not seen this but i did and my prayers and thoughts go out to all involved both on board and the family and loved ones of the crew and passengers."

most probably a cargo movement towards the tail, A microburst that strong is very unlikely and it won´t make a plane to up to 85 nose up.... it´s very very sad, i used to see this planes in NBO sometimes and they look great...
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting United727 (Reply 19):
How would one track where this plane has been over the past couple weeks?

Click on the link below. Once the window is completely open and showing yesterday's flights, click on the plane registration at left. This should allow you to know where it flew lately, at least where it was possible to follow it.

Quoting capri (Reply 13):
http://www.flightradar24.com/#!/2013-04-28/15:50/NCR510

this was its last recorded flight yesterday 28/04 on flight radar
 
BMI727
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting gatorman96 (Reply 16):
This may have been the case for past cargo operations out of BAF, but with the drawdown, I would strongly doubt a 747 would go out empty...

I would tend to agree. I'd guess there's plenty of stuff that has to be moved out.

Quoting cjg225 (Reply 20):
When an airfield is being run by a military, what type of rescue/firefighting equipment is usually on-hand as compared to, say, a typical large American airport?

As far as I know it's pretty much the same for a given airport size. In fact I think some civilian airports are covered by national guard firefighters. I do recall seeing pictures of a crash truck being unloaded from a C-5, so my guess is that it's a priority.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 21):
A microburst that strong is very unlikely and it won´t make a plane to up to 85 nose up.... it´s very very sad, i used to see this planes in NBO sometimes and they look great...

Yeah, if it was really 85 degrees nose up I'm thinking it wasn't a microburst. Was the weather at the time conducive to microbursts?
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mabadia71
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:16 pm

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 23):
Yeah, if it was really 85 degrees nose up I'm thinking it wasn't a microburst. Was the weather at the time conducive to microbursts?

Well according to METARs at the time there were several CB approaching the airport

OAKB 291150Z 10017G27KT 9999 VCTS SCT090CB BKN120 16/06 Q1013 NOSIG RMK BLU BLU
OAKB 291050Z 11020G30KT 9999 SCT090 OVC120 16/05 Q1012 NOSIG RMK BLU BLU
mabadia71
 
as739x
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:25 pm

RIP fellow aviators Sad indeed
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SVJ77W
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:34 pm

That is just horrible.
RIP to all those who lost their lives in this beautiful aircraft. God be with their families.
 
United727
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:40 pm

Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 22):
Click on the link below.

@SPACESHIPDC10 Thanks for the info....SADLY, this was the plane I saw just last week here at KRFD, literally a week ago. It's livery and very glossy paint caught my eye as I was spotting. It was parked at RFD's Cargo Center.

[Edited 2013-04-29 11:41:03]
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:54 pm

This is horrible news. Not only for the family members of the crew, but also a very nice aircraft has been destroyed  


(uploaded by JVL.Holland)

[Edited 2013-04-29 12:56:59]
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
Milka
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:29 pm

Quote from Avherlad comment section of the crash:

"Nephew on this flight.
By Dennis C Farney on Monday, Apr 29th 2013 20:07Z

Lost a fine young man today! My nephew Jamie B. as I understand was the FO and he sure loved to fly. His father Terry B. flew for the company also until his retirement just recently. Terry was always a stickler for details and I know he passed that on to his son Jamie as well as his love for aviation! The others in the crew, I do not know of them, but they being Aviator's themselves, I also grieve in their passing! To step off and away from the sidewalk and climb into the cockpit yo Live their dream of flying! Some thing most only dreamt of, this crew did. I weep in Jamie's passing, I cry for the loss to my sister Susan, for my brother in- law Terry and my nephews Randy and Corey. Jamie was doing what he loved and I Thank Jamie for all the memories! God Bless You Jamie! Uncle Dennis 22 years active Military Aviator retired"

http://avherald.com/h?article=46183bb4&opt=0

Sobering...
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:33 pm

That comment is heartbreaking...
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
MSPNWA
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:48 pm

Very sad day in aviation. My thoughts are with those lost in the crash.
 
Ronaldo747
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:57 pm

Very sad news, RIP to all involved, and prayers for the families.

Not that important but also a sad sidenote: Today marks the 25th anniversary of first flight of the 747-400. The Queen does not deserved that day in this way.
 
Norcal773
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:57 pm

Very heartbreaking news, may the Crew and the beautiful Queen of the sky Rest In Peace.
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s4popo
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:30 pm

Quoting capri (Reply 13):
http://www.flightradar24.com/#!/2013-04-28/15:50/NCR510

this was its last recorded flight yesterday 28/04 on flight radar


Horrible news and a chilling eyewitness report... RIP.


OT: That is an interesting flight path. Is there a reason why they would fly down the coast of Italy and avoid flying over the Balkans?
 
libsport
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:49 pm

This a/c was just at Hill AFB, UT last week. departed here Saturday 27 April around mid-day. Got this photo of it late Friday afternoon.
On the ramp.
Alex R. Lloyd
 
capri
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:52 pm

Quoting s4popo (Reply 36):
That is an interesting flight path. Is there a reason why they would fly down the coast of Italy and avoid flying over the Balkans?

I noticed that too, sharp turn south of Albania, one thing that comes to mind is a high overflying fees that Albania or others charge that National Cargo don't want to, like many Carriers that I know avoid Nigerian airspace mainly for the same reasons, other could be political.

[Edited 2013-04-29 14:58:04]
 
ETinCaribe
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 9:54 pm

RIP to the lost ones and their families. Sad day for aviation.
It appears there have been a few eye witnesses (and some presumably with good aviation knowledge and not just pedestrians) that would help in the investigations, including the load shift theory.
 
NASCARAirforce
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:31 pm

Quoting ETinCaribe (Reply 40):
RIP to the lost ones and their families. Sad day for aviation.It appears there have been a few eye witnesses (and some presumably with good aviation knowledge and not just pedestrians) that would help in the investigations, including the load shift theory.

That eerily sounds like the Fine Air DC-8 crash that happened at MIA in the late 1990s.
 
AirlineBrat
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:02 am

Quoting capri (Reply 39):
Quoting s4popo (Reply 36):
That is an interesting flight path. Is there a reason why they would fly down the coast of Italy and avoid flying over the Balkans?

I noticed that too, sharp turn south of Albania, one thing that comes to mind is a high overflying fees that Albania

My guess is that they were flying around Iran. The flight path ended when aircraft was approaching Georgia and didn't show the last leg to Afghanistan. I would expect that was done for security reasons so the aircraft was not tracked as it approached Bagram.
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F9Animal
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:59 am

This is such a sad tragedy. Those guys up front knew that airplane very well, so I would be shocked if it was pilot error. I suspect it was a shift in the load, as it seems to be the strongest possibility mentioned.

Kind of off topic, but I noticed the name Lori under the cockpit window. Obviously the ship is dedicated to her. Who is she?
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
PRFlyer
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:18 am

Quoting F9animal (Reply 43):
Kind of off topic, but I noticed the name Lori under the cockpit window. Obviously the ship is dedicated to her. Who is she?

Lori Alf, owner and board member of National Air Cargo Group
 
737tdi
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:45 am

No speculation here. Prayers for the folks on board. R.I.P. aviators. The airplane can be replaced those crew members can not.
 
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EK413
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:38 am

R.I.P   

First it's Lion Air with all surviving, now we have a tragedy  

EK413
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na
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:24 am

Cargo was five military vehicles according to avherald. That must have been pretty big vehicles, trucks, tanks or similar. One can only speculate what happened when one broke loose. No chance for the crew.
 
Flyer732
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:14 am

Quoting na (Reply 48):
Cargo was five military vehicles according to avherald. That must have been pretty big vehicles, trucks, tanks or similar. One can only speculate what happened when one broke loose. No chance for the crew.

The cargo was likely 5 MRAP's, that's the max the 747-400 can carry. Not a lot of cargo volume or weight wise all things considered, but they're extremely heavy for a single piece of freight, around 15,000 lbs each if I remember right.
 
na
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:28 am

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 49):

Thanks, imagening one breaking loose I would imagine it would crash through the aircrafts skin.
 
airtran737
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Tue Apr 30, 2013 11:46 am

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 49):
The cargo was likely 5 MRAP's, that's the max the 747-400 can carry. Not a lot of cargo volume or weight wise all things considered, but they're extremely heavy for a single piece of freight, around 15,000 lbs each if I remember right.

23,000 lbs each with the turret removed. I wonder how National loaded them. We had a method for restraining them that worked extremely well. I don't want to second guess the loadmasters, but the MRAP's can be locked in forward and aft, and then about 26 straps will ensure proper restraint in all directions. Something went horrible wrong on this flight, and hopefully the NTSB and FAA can find the root cause quickly so it will be avoided again.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
neutronstar73
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:37 pm

Quoting Flyer732 (Reply 49):
The cargo was likely 5 MRAP's, that's the max the 747-400 can carry. Not a lot of cargo volume or weight wise all things considered, but they're extremely heavy for a single piece of freight, around 15,000 lbs each if I remember right

No way in hell an MRAP would fit in a 747. Nope. Try again.
 
dtwpilot225
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RE: National Air Cargo B744 Down In Bagram

Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:40 pm

This tragedy hits close to home with their primary domicile for crews being KYIP. A lot of good pilots at National, I just talked to a friend who thankfully was not on that flight and he said that all of those lost were great people. RIP and prayers to the family. Im sure in a year or so I will be able to read the final report on what happened, and I too hope they can find a way to prevent this from happening again.

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