oc2dc
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AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 4:44 am

AA announced Wednesday that it will begin hourly service between LAX and JFK starting in early 2014. Currently AA has between 8 and 10 daily frequencies. Staring in early 2014 frequencies will be increased to the low teens.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2013-...ourly-flights-on-new-york-la-route

Clearly with this new shuttle like service, AA wont be losing too much capacity by replacing the 762's with the A321 T's.

On a side note, the article mentions there are slot restrictions at JFK and says AA will need to eliminate certain flights to accommodate the new LAX-JFK frequency. I don't know how much truth there is to that statement. I'm pretty sure AA is sitting on plenty of slots for JFK expansion.

Also interesting to note, AA will board passengers on the A321T though the L2 door. I guess that puts that debate to rest.

[Edited 2013-05-01 21:51:09]
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KD5MDK
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 4:56 am

I'm pretty sure the JFK slot restrictions are for peak slots. Moving to a shuttle (and spreading flights across the day) wouldn't need many more if any peak slots.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 5:04 am

I'm excited to see that they will use L2 to board. That is my favorite thing about the 757s!
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American 767
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 5:09 am

Quoting oc2dc (Thread starter):
Staring in early 2014 frequencies will be increased to the low teens.

That means at least two red eyes per night on the East bound direction, if not three.

Increasing frequency on the route not only gives additional flexibility to business travelers, it also gives the opportunity for leisure travelers to connect on all flights to Hawaii American has out of LAX.

I'm wondering if BOS-LAX will also see the A321 once the 757 is retired later this decade, I know SFO-JFK will.
MIA-LAX maybe, but I think that one will continue to see 763s and 772s.
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LAXintl
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 5:09 am

AA is indeed tight on JFK slots - hence the deal with JetBlue couple years back.

If they need to shed slots they still have quite a few AE flights which probably don't have much value, or some low hanging fruit with single frequency domestic flights to places like LAS, SEA, MCO, TPA, SAN which likely don't mean much in the bigger network picture.
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MAH4546
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 5:48 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
AA is indeed tight on JFK slots - hence the deal with JetBlue couple years back.

If they need to shed slots they still have quite a few AE flights which probably don't have much value, or some low hanging fruit with single frequency domestic flights to places like LAS, SEA, MCO, TPA, SAN which likely don't mean much in the bigger network picture.
AA is not tight on slots whatsoever. Slots are easy to get outside peak and those slots the it acquired from B6 are still being used on routes like MCO, ORF and LAS. It is essentially siting on a good number of prime slots, not used for prime purposes.

While I think that short-haul might go, especially as PHL becomes an AA hub, LAS, SAN and SEA aren't going anywhere, and absolutely mean much in the bigger network picture as important markets for AA to serve from NYC. SAN has a second frequency that seem to operate somewhat inconsistently. LAS is double daily, as is MCO and, effective June, TPA. They are also absolutely critical feeder markets for Europe flights.

[Edited 2013-05-01 22:50:34]
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civetfive
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 6:02 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 3):

They already run 2 redeyes on LAX-JFK, one at 9:30pm and another at 11:30pm.

What I'd personally like to see is the return of the 5th, and hopefully the introduction of a 6th, frequency on SFO-JFK. The options just feel very limited right now - only 1 eastbound flight arrives in time for dinner, 2 flights leave within 65 minutes after lunch, but arrive too late for dinner, and the 4th is a decent redeye. Westbound we have 2 morning flights, then nothing for 6+ hours, then a predinner flight.

Current Schedule - Eastbound
AA24 0700 1545
AA16 1255 2145
AA20 1400 2250
AA18 2240 0740 +1

Current Schedule - Westbound
AA59 0800 1130
AA179 0930 1255
AA85 1530 0705
AA177 1800 2140

I'd love to see a 0930 eastbound, and a 12pm westbound. With the 6th, I'd love a 1530 eastbound and a 2030 westbound - let me do drinks before heading to JFK!
 
toobz
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 9:38 am

Hourly flights on a 5-6 hour transcon..? Hope they don't lose too much money.
 
PHX787
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 11:29 am

Quoting toobz (Reply 7):
Hourly flights on a 5-6 hour transcon..? Hope they don't lose too much money.

That's what I'm thinking....doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
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United_fan
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 11:39 am

Quoting oc2dc (Thread starter):
Also interesting to note, AA will board passengers on the A321T though the L2 door. I guess that puts that debate to rest.

This keeps the 'pee-ons' from oogling the 'stars' in F.
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AAplat4life
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 11:49 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
Quoting toobz (Reply 7):Hourly flights on a 5-6 hour transcon..? Hope they don't lose too much money.
That's what I'm thinking....doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

This has been expected for some time now, but I still have reservations about it being profitable enough. Perhaps DL will add some more 767s on this route, and then will see how the market responds. The CASM advantage on the A321 is going to go away quickly with only 102 seats and the labor costs of more flights. I just cannot see US management sticking to this plan after the merger unless it is profitable.
 
fun2fly
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 11:59 am

Quoting United_fan (Reply 9):
This keeps the 'pee-ons' from oogling the 'stars' in F.

Right on.

AA is going to have a the best product on the route when you look at it = brand new A321's with hourly service. Bold move on their part to get agressive again in NY after being beat up by DL and UA for the past few years. While the frequency may drop a bit after the initial hoopla, if they end up w/ 10 per day that's quite a nice setup.
 
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 12:01 pm

AA has JFK to LAX flights about every 90 minutes, sometimes hourly. I doubt AA is going to call it a "shuttle" in the Boston to LGA type of shuttle.
 
toobz
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 12:04 pm

Uhh the best? You know DL has widebody with aisle access for every seat as well. Wouldn't say AA has the best. It's a great product as well
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 12:18 pm

With multiple carriers on the JFK-LAX route (or NYC-LAX in general), how much more capacity can the market take? I know it's a very lucrative market with tons of demand, but every market has a limit. What is the limit on this one?
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FSDan
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 12:24 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 11):
if they end up w/ 10 per day that's quite a nice setup.

That's essentially the current setup... except today they are using widebodies with much more capacity.
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jfklganyc
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 12:31 pm

First thoughts:

1. I knew they would use 2L for boarding. Small, narrow F section doesnt need a conga line

2. Shuttle is interesting choice of words seeing as they will now have The Shuttle at LGA from US

3. Shuttle is a word usually associated with high frequency, all coach with a decent product, short haull service. I hope they dont brand it as a shuttle and then try to sell lie flat seats...it is just counter intuitive from a marketing point of view. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't have used Shuttle in the press release at all.

4. Slots...they have plenty of them. No cuts needed. They are down to like 90 flights. At one time, they had well over 100.
 
bobnwa
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 12:39 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 16):
2. Shuttle is interesting choice of words seeing as they will now have The Shuttle at LGA from US

Back in the 60s and 70s, AA operated their own shuttle BOS-LGA-DCA which they called the Jet Express
 
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RayChuang
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 12:46 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 14):
With multiple carriers on the JFK-LAX route (or NYC-LAX in general), how much more capacity can the market take? I know it's a very lucrative market with tons of demand, but every market has a limit. What is the limit on this one?

The demand historically has always been gigantic--especially once the movie industry started to become important in the second decade of the 20th Century. Even before the airlines became important, the major American railroads had a LOT of service between New York City and Los Angeles--note that New York Central's 20th Century Limited and Pennsylvania Railroad's Broadway Limited at times synced their schedules so passengers could easily transfer to Rock Island/Southern Pacific's Golden State Limited, Santa Fe's Super Chief or Union Pacific/Chicago & Northwestern's City of Los Angeles.

When AA introduced the DC-3, it didn't take long for AA to use it on the New York City to Los Angeles route--the plane could fly from New York City to Los Angeles in 17.5 hours (including refueling stops)--less than half the time the Super Chief train needed just to travel from Chicago to Los Angeles!   Small wonder just before the American entrance into World War II, both Boeing and Douglas were developing four-engined airliners that could fly between New York City and Los Angeles faster and requiring fewer fuel stops.

In my humble opinion, it was the burgeoning Los Angeles-New York City route that drove the development of the Douglas DC-6/7/8, the Lockheed Constellation, and the Boeing 707. The fact in 2013 you have multiple airlines flying many flights per day between LAX and JFK shows how strong this route is even now. AA's decision to increase the flight frequency between JFK and LAX--especially with the impending arrival of the A321 models--continues this trend.
 
commavia
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 1:00 pm

Interesting - and to be expected.

Although this still portends a substantial reduction in capacity (particularly in Y) - which is obviously the point. I take his statement of frequency in the "low teens" to mean less than 15. So even assuming 14 flights per day - which I think is quiet plausible - you're still talking at least a 15% overall capacity reduction.

As for the frequencies themselves - I agree with others - AA shouldn't have too much trouble finding the JFK slots. Plus, while BusinessWeek might have called it an "hourly shuttle," schedule and time zone realities means that of course it will not be quite hourly throughout the day westbound, and certainly not eastbound. I could see:

From LAX: 0630 0730 0830 0930 1030 1130 1230 1330 1430 1530 1700 2100 2230 2355
From JFK: 0630 0730 0830 0930 1100 1200 1300 1400 1530 1630 1730 1830 2000 2130

I would also not be surprised to see JFK-SFO get 1-2 extra round-trip frequencies, too.

[Edited 2013-05-02 06:07:50]
 
WesternA318
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 1:13 pm

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 18):
The demand historically has always been gigantic--especially once the movie industry started to become important in the second decade of the 20th Century. Even before the airlines became important, the major American railroads had a LOT of service between New York City and Los Angeles--note that New York Central's 20th Century Limited and Pennsylvania Railroad's Broadway Limited at times synced their schedules so passengers could easily transfer to Rock Island/Southern Pacific's Golden State Limited, Santa Fe's Super Chief or Union Pacific/Chicago & Northwestern's City of Los Angeles.

When AA introduced the DC-3, it didn't take long for AA to use it on the New York City to Los Angeles route--the plane could fly from New York City to Los Angeles in 17.5 hours (including refueling stops)--less than half the time the Super Chief train needed just to travel from Chicago to Los Angeles! Small wonder just before the American entrance into World War II, both Boeing and Douglas were developing four-engined airliners that could fly between New York City and Los Angeles faster and requiring fewer fuel stops.

In my humble opinion, it was the burgeoning Los Angeles-New York City route that drove the development of the Douglas DC-6/7/8, the Lockheed Constellation, and the Boeing 707. The fact in 2013 you have multiple airlines flying many flights per day between LAX and JFK shows how strong this route is even now. AA's decision to increase the flight frequency between JFK and LAX--especially with the impending arrival of the A321 models--continues this trend.

AA must know something us armchair CEO's dont...oh yeah, THEY have the gorilla's load of corporate contracts between both cities when it comes to travel...the guarantees must have already been in those corporate contracts to warrant the extra flights, which in my mind, are a good thing...I better hop on a 762 while I can! Oh, one question though...whats the capacity of AA's A321's vs the 762's?
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klwright69
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 1:33 pm

Maybe they see the need to "keep up with the joneses" in terms of frequency (UA in EWR) also. I totally understand EWR and JFK transcon market dynamics are not the same. But there is now a real precedent for high frequency flights to LAX and SFO from the NYC area.

UA strangely uses RJ's to fly to IAD. Maybe they should dump those flights and add more transcon frequencies to up the ante.

It is strange to call it a "shuttle," I agree. Shuttle implies something like BOS-LGA, DFW/DAL-IAH, SFO-LAX.
 
9w748capt
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 1:34 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 8):
That's what I'm thinking....doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

Nothing AA does sounds like a good idea to you. Except maybe for PHX-NRT shuttles?
 
WesternA318
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 1:40 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 22):
Nothing AA does sounds like a good idea to you. Except maybe for PHX-NRT shuttles?

To me...anything close to a shuttle on the AA system would be LAX-JFK, MIA/JFK-SJU, JFK-MIA...
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usairways85
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 1:49 pm

So UA added flts on EWR-LAX/SFO for a total of ~14 flts/day on each just because VX came in and now AA is adding another 5 each. Year over Year this has to be a ton of additional capacity on NYC-LAX/SFO.
 
sw733
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 2:00 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 21):

It is strange to call it a "shuttle," I agree. Shuttle implies something like BOS-LGA, DFW/DAL-IAH, SFO-LAX.

I disagree completely. To me, shuttle service doesn't matter with length, but rather with frequency. Hourly service between Los Angeles and New York really is a shuttle service because of the frequency. Heck, I would consider HKG-LHR a shuttle service if they decided to start hourly flights.
 
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American 767
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 2:05 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 24):
So UA added flts on EWR-LAX/SFO for a total of ~14 flts/day on each just because VX came in and now AA is adding another 5 each. Year over Year this has to be a ton of additional capacity on NYC-LAX/SFO.

I'm wondering what is the survival chance of EWR-LAX for AA. I see it going seasonal. I don't see it going anymore than 1x daily year round unless the US economy significantly bounces up to pre 9-11 levels by miracle. If that happens maybe it'll see larger 763 equipment (if there is enough demand) or 2x daily 738, 2x daily A321 or 2x daily one of each.
AA in EWR is weak.

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divemaster08
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 2:06 pm

As much as it seems a lot, I doubt this is really a huge increase in seats available when they replace the B762 with the A321.

I cant imagine there will be much difference in the seats AA will be offering. The only side will be less F/J product per flight which some may prefer as it should allow service to increase per pax.
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commavia
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 2:09 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 13):
Uhh the best? You know DL has widebody with aisle access for every seat as well. Wouldn't say AA has the best. It's a great product as well

Yes - the best. Based on the pictures, the narrowbody cabin with that big a seat and a solid partition wall is going to give AA's F cabin on these planes the feel of a business jet. The privacy and exclusivity looks like it's going to be incredible - likely the best hard product in the U.S., and among the best in the world (again, based on the pictures). DL's F and UA's BF cabins will be competitive with AA's C cabins on these planes, but the look and feel of AA's F appears to be in a category by itself in the domestic U.S. market.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 21):
Maybe they see the need to "keep up with the joneses" in terms of frequency (UA in EWR) also. I totally understand EWR and JFK transcon market dynamics are not the same. But there is now a real precedent for high frequency flights to LAX and SFO from the NYC area.

I don't think this has anything to do with UA's high-frequency VX response. AA announced this transition to A321s on JFK-LAX/SFO many months ago, and no doubt was thinking back then about how the huge change in per-flight capacity would effect frequency. If anything, this simply fits with the model long followed by AA (and other network airlines) of prioritizing high frequencies in business-heavy markets.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 24):
So UA added flts on EWR-LAX/SFO for a total of ~14 flts/day on each just because VX came in and now AA is adding another 5 each. Year over Year this has to be a ton of additional capacity on NYC-LAX/SFO.

Again - not really, at least with respect to AA. It appears AA is primarily adding frequency. AA capacity in these markets is likely to be flat at most, and likely will actually be down.

Quoting sw733 (Reply 25):
To me, shuttle service doesn't matter with length, but rather with frequency. Hourly service between Los Angeles and New York really is a shuttle service because of the frequency.

 checkmark 

"Shuttle" = frequency.

Quoting American 767 (Reply 26):
I'm wondering what is the survival chance of EWR-LAX for AA.

It's survived this long, albeit at 1x daily. I suppose maybe AA really does have a market for it, as it's well-timed for O&D and longhaul connections.

[Edited 2013-05-02 07:10:46]
 
PHX787
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 22):
Nothing AA does sounds like a good idea to you. Except maybe for PHX-NRT shuttles?

Now that's just silly....but JFK-PHX, should they decide to beef up PHX, does make some sense...but lets look below:

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 23):
To me...anything close to a shuttle on the AA system would be LAX-JFK, MIA/JFK-SJU, JFK-MIA...

JFK-MIA shuttles make the best sense to me. Same with JFK-DFW.
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codc10
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 2:43 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 13):
You know DL has widebody with aisle access for every seat as well.

On limited frequencies. Further, DL has no plans to roll out 767 service to all LAX+SFO flights, so their best product will only be available a handful of times per day.

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 21):
Maybe they see the need to "keep up with the joneses" in terms of frequency (UA in EWR) also. I totally understand EWR and JFK transcon market dynamics are not the same.

Uh oh... the bat signal is up... the 'usual suspects' will be here any minute to spout on about EWR's irrelevance to the NYC market.  
Quoting commavia (Reply 28):
DL's F and UA's BF cabins will be competitive with AA's C cabins on these planes,

The same seat, no less (at least on the 757s)!

Quoting commavia (Reply 28):
but the look and feel of AA's F appears to be in a category by itself in the domestic U.S. market.

For sure. Looks to be an exceptionally good product, but the question remains whether there is enough demand to justify 10 F seats on 13-15 daily frequencies. This will be an increase in capacity for the product while the ultra-premium segment is declining in the transcon market.
 
commavia
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 3:33 pm

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 30):
but the question remains whether there is enough demand to justify 10 F seats on 13-15 daily frequencies. This will be an increase in capacity for the product while the ultra-premium segment is declining in the transcon market.

True, although remember that while these A321s will have the same number of F seats as the 762s, they will also have 10 fewer C seats. So net-net, each of these jets will have 10 fewer premium seats. Therefore, adding say 4-5 additional daily frequencies would actually lead to only a very small change in the overall premium cabin capacity in the market.

I suspect that AA is banking on three things: (1) this overall better F product will help them to capture new incremental local and longhaul-connecting (AA and codeshare/interline) premium demand, (2) the strength of their corporate contracts will allow them to upsell some incremental portion of their present C customers into F, and (3) AA will pick up some level of the current F demand UA now attracts but will lose when it eliminates the F cabin.
 
klwright69
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 31):
I suspect that AA is banking on three things: (1) this overall better F product will help them to capture new incremental local and longhaul-connecting (AA and codeshare/interline) premium demand, (2) the strength of their corporate contracts will allow them to upsell some incremental portion of their present C customers into F, and (3) AA will pick up some level of the current F demand UA now attracts but will lose when it eliminates the F cabin.

If losing F were such a devastating blow to lose F, UA would keep F. So, maybe.
 
N62NA
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 29):
JFK-MIA shuttles make the best sense to me.

LGA-MIA shuttles make more sense, at least to me.
 
MAH4546
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 5:06 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 26):
I'm wondering what is the survival chance of EWR-LAX for AA. I see it going seasonal. I don't see it going anymore than 1x daily year round unless the US economy significantly bounces up to pre 9-11 levels by miracle. If that happens maybe it'll see larger 763 equipment (if there is enough demand) or 2x daily 738, 2x daily A321 or 2x daily one of each.
AA in EWR is weak.

Who cares that AA is weak at Newark? It is very strong in Los Angeles, and it can easily - and does easily - support a daily Newark rotation that is ideally timed for local LA traffic and international connections. Flight isn't going anywhere.
a.
 
cgnnrw
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 5:16 pm

What are the chances AA will finish building their T8 at JFK. If I'm not mistaken only half of the proposed terminal was completed. Maybe with these extra frequencies they'll finish the rest of T8?
A330 man.
 
commavia
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 5:27 pm

Quoting cgnnrw (Reply 35):
What are the chances AA will finish building their T8 at JFK. If I'm not mistaken only half of the proposed terminal was completed. Maybe with these extra frequencies they'll finish the rest of T8?

I suspect the changes are pretty high - not because of this, though. The gate space is already pretty tight in T8, particularly at peak times, but this is probably only an additional 5-7 mainline departures, and in terms of slots is quite possibly a net change of zero as other routes see frequency reductions to fund this higher frequency. As such, T8 is likely able to handle it. I think more likely T8 will ultimately be fully built out as AA/BA pursue ever-closer cooperation and BA uses some or all of the (not-yet-built) north end of T8 as its JFK base. That's probably at least five years away, though.
 
ckfred
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 5:28 pm

If you think about it, AA has close to shuttle servie on LGA-ORD and DFW-ORD. Both routes have more than 15 weekday departures.

AA also tried this on ORD-LAX in the early 1990s. With the recession, AA decided to retire a number of DC-10s. That left AA short of widebodies. So, it went to a shuttle operation on the route, using mostly MD-80s, with 2 or 3 757s and 2 763s. Remember that was before VX and before WN had long-haul non-stops out of MDW.
 
WesternA318
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 5:30 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 26):
AA in EWR is weak.
Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 34):
Who cares that AA is weak at Newark? It is very strong in Los Angeles, and it can easily - and does easily - support a daily Newark rotation that is ideally timed for local LA traffic and international connections. Flight isn't going anywhere.

My thoughts exactly. What may seem weak on the one end most certainly does not mean the flight itself is weak from the LAX perspective. It is a money making flight, or AA wouldve shelved it, and more than likely, there are quite a few corporate pax on those flights, same with the JFK-LAX offerings.

Now, if they would just make LAX-SLC mainline! LOL..I know Im dreaming, but it'd be nice.
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AAIL86
Posts: 425
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 5:55 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 29):

JFK-MIA shuttles make the best sense to me. Same with JFK-DFW.

actually, JFK-DFW is only 1x and its pretty much used for TATL connections only. Most DFW-New York traffic is routed DFW-LGA, which is (~15x during the week), and DFW-EWR (~7x)....
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason - Benjamim Franklin
 
klwright69
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 6:16 pm

I doubt the future of AA's LAX-EWR is in doubt. That is a sidebar topic. Just one flight a day is not a big deal really. It has a place in the route system. Of course it's not a superstar performer, but it's not going anywhere.
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 6:21 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 22):
Nothing AA does sounds like a good idea to you. Except maybe for PHX-NRT shuttles?

Brilliant. I loved this. You've earned that spot on my "Respected Members" list.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 34):
Who cares that AA is weak at Newark? It is very strong in Los Angeles, and it can easily - and does easily - support a daily Newark rotation that is ideally timed for local LA traffic and international connections. Flight isn't going anywhere.

   NYC-based AA flyers are content having LGA and JFK.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 37):
AA also tried this on ORD-LAX in the early 1990s. With the recession, AA decided to retire a number of DC-10s. That left AA short of widebodies. So, it went to a shuttle operation on the route, using mostly MD-80s, with 2 or 3 757s and 2 763s. Remember that was before VX and before WN had long-haul non-stops out of MDW.

AA still flies 10x daily flights on ORD-LAX. While not levels of a "shuttle," still a good amount of frequencies.
confidence is silent. insecurities are loud.
 
us330
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 6:27 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 29):
JFK-MIA shuttles make the best sense to me. Same with JFK-DFW.

Which is why you don't run an airline. DFW and MIA are both within LGA's perimeter, and AA has de facto shuttle service between both cities to LGA based on frequency, and only token service from both points to JFK to cater to European connections.

Also, AA isn't branding this as a shuttle--one of their executives merely used shuttle as an adjective to illustrate their plan to provide high frequency services between two points (probably) at predictable departure times.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 6:32 pm

Hourly AA 321s with 3 classes, new PS on UA plus eleventy daily flights from EWR, B6 jumping in with a 321 and premium product, DL with additional capacity and upgraded products--transcons are about to get serious, as if they weren't already. And then there's VX, who is suddenly going to be one of the few without a lie flat product....
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mia305
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 6:37 pm

A bit off topic but with the 321s comming on line would AA more frequency
on the MIA/LAX route and maybe add a 4th flight on the MIA/SFO or is there
schedule good as it is?
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 7:29 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 16):
Shuttle is a word usually associated with high frequency, all coach with a decent product,

It's no longer all coach. First class has been introduced to the shuttle products now so that they can rotate the shuttle fleet into the regular mainline fleet.
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miaskies
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 7:37 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 42):
and only token service from both points to JFK to cater to European connections.

DFW-JFK: token point? yes. One daily 738; obviously LGA is the focus for this market.

MIA-JFK: 6x Daily Flights (alongside LGA's 10x Daily). I wouldn't call JFK exactly a token point from MIA, yes some connection opportunities etc. but the market is there from both ends to sustain 6 daily flights alongside LGA.
Nothing better than making love at 35K Feet!
 
ExL10Mktg
Posts: 61
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 7:51 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 19):
Although this still portends a substantial reduction in capacity (particularly in Y) - which is obviously the point.

Here's the math:
current midweek schedule 9 x 762 @ 10/30/128 = 90/270/1152
least case scenario 12 x 321 @ 10/20/102 = 120/240/1224
likely scenario 14 x 321 @ 10/20/102 = 140/280/1428

Either way you are looking at least a slight to fair overall increase in Y capacity a very hefty increase in F and +/- in J (so just fewer or more upgrades lol.) Further, the Y will now break down into 36 MCE +96 standard so financially a big boost!
 
WesternA318
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RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 7:59 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 43):
Hourly AA 321s with 3 classes, new PS on UA plus eleventy daily flights from EWR, B6 jumping in with a 321 and premium product, DL with additional capacity and upgraded products--transcons are about to get serious, as if they weren't already. And then there's VX, who is suddenly going to be one of the few without a lie flat product....

But VX's product is not that bad really, and I enjoy it a lot, but I do love DL's improvements on the route.
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oc2dc
Topic Author
Posts: 451
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:38 am

RE: AA To Launch LAX-JFK Shuttle Service

Thu May 02, 2013 8:27 pm

Quoting ExL10Mktg (Reply 47):
Here's the math:
current midweek schedule 9 x 762 @ 10/30/128 = 90/270/1152
least case scenario 12 x 321 @ 10/20/102 = 120/240/1224
likely scenario 14 x 321 @ 10/20/102 = 140/280/1428

Either way you are looking at least a slight to fair overall increase in Y capacity a very hefty increase in F and +/- in J (so just fewer or more upgrades lol.) Further, the Y will now break down into 36 MCE +96 standard so financially a big boost!

Your math is incorrect. The A321T's will have a total of 102 seats, not 102 in Econ and 36 in MCE (Main Cabin Extra).

The correct layout for the A321T is 10/20/36/36 for a total of 102.

12 x A321T @ 10F/20J/36MCE/36Y= 120F/240J/432MCE/432Y adding MCE +Y= 864
14 x A321T @ 10F/20J/36MCE/36Y= 140F/280J/504MCE/504Y adding MCE+Y = 1,008

Now you see a large increase in F capacity and J stays about the same. If you consider MCE and Y to be the same, then there is a drop of about 150 to 300 seats in Y. If you consider MCE separate from Y, then there is a gigantic dump in capacity. Clearly this plane and this route is focused on heavily on premium passengers and service.

If you add up all the seats in total on the A321T going 12 or 14x daily, then there will actually be an overall increase of capacity in general, granted most of the increase is in the front cabins.

[Edited 2013-05-02 13:29:27]

[Edited 2013-05-02 13:30:39]
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