DIJKKIJK
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 9:57 am

TK will not allow its flight attendants to wear bright coloured( red or pink) lipstick. This is causing a storm in Turkey where Islamization is on the rise, and a Conservative Government is bending backwards to please the Islamists.

Link only in French , Sorry.

http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-...-voyants-polemique-en-turquie.html


How sad! I'm sure the average Turkish woman is dead against this.
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toobz
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 10:12 am

What would it matter if they were against this? That's the price of living in an extreme religious country (area). Common sense is thrown out to the sea and women's rights take a leap in as well. It's kinda funny how men in that part of the world are so "intimidated" by women that they need to control them and how they look. Sad.
 
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scbriml
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 10:53 am

So they CAN still wear lipstick, just not bright red or pink? Doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me - I'm sure TK (and other airlines) would not allow an FA to have bright green hair either. The airline has the right to have its crew project the image it wants, not the image the crew wants.

I don't see it's a big deal and certainly not pandering to Islamisation.
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JAGflyer
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 11:03 am

Red lipstick is pretty standard and hardly a "vibrant colour" in terms of make-up for a lady.
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toobz
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 11:03 am

Uhh..what color are lipsticks normally? Blue?
 
leftyboarder
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 11:22 am

I also do not agree with TK management's decision, as red (not perhaps a fiery red but plain red) lipstick should be OK. However, for the sake of accuracy, the title of the thread should be changed. Lipsticks still allowed (in fact enforced) at TK - FAs are supposed to wear lipstick, blush and eye shadow. Eyeliner also allowed. Here's a source quoting TK make-up policy (sorry in Turkish only): http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...e-tek-yasak-kirmizi-ruj-degil.html
 
Quokkas
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 11:29 am

Quoting toobz (Reply 4):
Uhh..what color are lipsticks normally? Blue?

Only if worn by cabin crew on Finnair, maybe.

But yes, you can buy blue lipstick, and black, purple, silver, gold and green. The linked article states that natural looking lipsticks are acceptable.

As to red, there are dozens of shades of red and it would appear that Turkish does not regard the bright, shocking reds and pinks as appropriate.

But Turkish is not alone in deciding what is and what isn't appropriate wear in a service industry. For example, Finnair states on its web site aimed at would be job applicants that they do not permit visible tattoos, dental jewellery or piercing. As none of the above prevent crew from performing the actual job, why are they regarded as acceptable demands while a limitation on lip stick colours isn't?

Personally I think that unless what a person wears is a safety risk it shouldn't make a difference but it is accepted that airlines in the West apply dress codes, so why do we insist that Turkish Airlines doing the same is wrong?
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toobz
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 11:38 am

Lol would live to see AY crew wearing blue ha. I find this very bizarre. Who is to say what is too bright? Sounds like a lot of personal interpreting to me. I get the super bright colors. You don't want your cabin crew walking around like Times Square whores. I get that. But I still think bright red is rather vague.
 
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scbriml
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 11:51 am

Quoting toobz (Reply 7):
Who is to say what is too bright? Sounds like a lot of personal interpreting to me.

In this case, TK themselves.

Many employers reserve the right to apply some control over how their employees dress. At work I'm expected to dress in "business casual". If I turned up in flip-flops, shorts and a t-shirt, I'd be sent home. I've had to speak to female employees who's dress, especially in summer, is more suited to the beach than an office. We're not Google or Apple and neither is TK.

In my view, TK has every right to control the image its FAs project. If they don't want their FAs wearing bright red lippy I really don't see it as a big issue and certainly not a religious one.

If you want to be an FA and wear bright red lippy, go work for VS.   
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lightsaber
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 12:49 pm

Is this uniform standardization or for religious reasons? IMHO, this is more the former. As Quokkas noted, this is service industry enforcing a look.   

FWIW, I prefer my women without lipstick, but I'm not setting the dress code.  
Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
So they CAN still wear lipstick, just not bright red or pink? Doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me

Exactly.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
I'm sure TK (and other airlines) would not allow an FA to have bright green hair either.

Eh, is that prohibited at Spirit?   

Quoting scbriml (Reply 8):
At work I'm expected to dress in "business casual".

My new employer's business casual is far more casual than my last workplace... each site sets their own rules. For example, collared shirts were required for business casual at my last employer (no tee shirts). Here, every Friday everyone is wearing Tee shirts... (Almost everyone... I'll wear a Hawaiian shirt, I'm just not ready to go down to a Tee shirt...) So all I see is this setting a color code.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 8):
If you want to be an FA and wear bright red lippy, go work for VS.

With F-me boots.  

Lightsaber
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toobz
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 2:02 pm

Scbri..I get that. But it's not the same thing as having biz casual environment and comin to work in flip flops. It's the same as saying u need to wear biz casual but NOT bright red or pink shirts. But only for males. Kinda ridic eh? Would that happen in your office? But I get this isn't taking place in the US but in a country where I guess it's feasible and accepted that not everybody is equal.
 
B777LRF
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 2:16 pm

Dude, lighten up. This restriction is nothing compared to what other airlines, hailing from completely secular societies, have foisted onto their front line employees when it comes to personal appearance, in same cases all the way down to the exact brand, model and colour of lipstick and nail polish. Ever heard of the VPL check? Well, it's still done to this day.

It's all about conveying the appearance management of the company is intent on broadcasting, and in this case it would seem the TK grooming wallah's have decided they don't wish for their biscuit chucking ladies to come across as cheap tarts. Plenty of other airlines that'll happily endorse strutting stuff like the best them, Virgin to name but one, but TK will not. They are, just like most other airlines, a tad conservative.

Claiming this was done because of political influence brought upon by religiously conservatives, is an allegation that requires more than just your opinion in order to have a leg to stand on. My guess is it's plain and simple application of common sense, and maybe certain elements within TK cabin staff needed to have the rules spelled out and rammed down their throats.
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lightsaber
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 2:25 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 10):
It's the same as saying u need to wear biz casual but NOT bright red or pink shirts. But only for males. Kinda ridic eh? Would that happen in your office?

I'd have a lot of red Hawaiian shirts left in my closet...  

But that is business attire. My entire industry used to be one color of shirt per pay grade!
Technicians: Dark Blue shirts
Engineers: White shirt (no stripes allowed) with black tie (on Fridays you could wear a collage tie)
Managers: White shirt (w/ or without stripe)or light blue shirts with any 'classy tie'

Then Verner Von Brown was brought to the USA and imposed casual Friday.   

But there are Male/Female differences:

Monday through Thursday we must wear 'business shoes' which for men mean black or brown and men must wear a collared shirt or a sweater. Woman can wear about anything (dress, collared shirt) other than tennis shoes and tee shirts. So we already have that differentiation in 'advanced economies.'

The issue is ambiguous dress codes. I do not see an issue with TK's choice of lipstick colors.

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LAXintl
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 2:27 pm

Why does the OPer seek to stir up some political or religious debate here?

This is a basic uniform and grooming standard.

The same way companies can tell folks what color pantyhose they must to use, or how much jewelry they can have in uniform, appropriate nail polish colors, or how their hair needs to be held up.

No story here. Move on.
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mercure1
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 2:47 pm

This story has nothing to do with religion or politics.


I guess they should look and complain at Air Tahiti Nui as well.

TN has clear restrictions on make up tones, how the hair must be worn(short or up), restrictions on nail polish etc.


I think in America at the happiest place on earth - Disneyland also have incredibly strict uniform standards. I recall reading in paper a few years ago that staff have to be groomed and appear exactly or face suspension.


TK can create standards it desires. This is very basic concept in service industry.
 
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scbriml
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 3:20 pm

Quoting toobz (Reply 10):
It's the same as saying u need to wear biz casual but NOT bright red or pink shirts.

But my office is not customer-facing and we don't wear uniforms. FAs at TK (and just about every other airline) are and do. The airline is simply setting the standard for what is and isn't acceptable for their FAs to wear while on duty. It's not unreasonable and I can't see it's got anything to do with politics or religion.
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Aesma
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 3:24 pm

The source articles are only in French and Turkish, but the subject is a real polemic in Turkey, not something the OP is making up.

The fact that such policies are common and thus the polemic a little futile is only highlighting the "fight" going on in the country between a strong secular part of the population and another strong part who wants more religion in everything. Everything gets interpreted.
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OA260
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 3:33 pm

This issue has more to do with internal Turkish politics. Turkeys main opposition party CHP made a huge fuss about anything considered pro Islamic. TK seems to be held up by politics in certain areas which is a shame. Its an airline not a game. The airline to should be allowed to be free from these kinds of issues.
 
AeroWesty
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 02, 2013 3:37 pm

What's TK's policy on pearl necklaces for their female staff? Or do they only control lipstick colors which might clash with the uniform (if that's the reason, I don't read French).
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quiet1
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Fri May 03, 2013 3:31 am

I wonder if this is a reaction to a crew member who wore a shockingly bright shade of red that even non-Islamics would agree is inappropriate for cabin crew? All too often a knee-jerk reaction to the 5% who ruin it for the 95% is an exaggerated micro-managing policy change.
 
Viscount724
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Fri May 03, 2013 9:16 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Why does the OPer seek to stir up some political or religious debate here?

The OPer isn't doing that. He/she is only quoting the points made in the linked news story.
 
Kaiarahi
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Sat May 04, 2013 10:59 am

Quoting toobz (Reply 1):
That's the price of living in an extreme religious country

Please explain (with facts, not ethnic stereotypes) how Turkey is extreme.

[Edited 2013-05-04 04:22:30]
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indcwby
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Sat May 04, 2013 11:47 am

Sadly, I wonder if an airlines bending backwards to those who are hardcore Islamists, wanting their way or no way, will be a slow death to an airline? Wasn't it on a SV or PK flight, that a man who was a strict Muslim forced a plane to divert because he was screaming at the cabin crew because they were all women?
 
777way
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Mon May 06, 2013 2:52 am

Bright red lispstick looks really cheap, they should decide on a few darker red shades and use them officially.

Quoting indcwby (Reply 22):
Sadly, I wonder if an airlines bending backwards to those who are hardcore Islamists,

Some Egypt Air crew now wear Hijab, after they protested to be allowed to do so.

Quoting indcwby (Reply 22):
Wasn't it on a SV or PK flight, that a man who was a strict Muslim forced a plane to divert because he was screaming at the cabin crew because they were all women?

that incident was onl Saudia, and it was for women without male companions no other reason, their crew wear makeup by the way.
 
smi0006
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Mon May 06, 2013 3:37 am

Qantas and Virgin Atlantic both limit the colours of lipstick their uniformed staff can wear... One requires natural colours, the other, requires bright red.

I see nothing wrong with tight uniform and presentation guidelines, that how branding is created. So long as there are no discriminatory policies (regarding age weight, religious garments etc), and the guidelines are equally tough for Men as they are for woman then I feel it contributes to a higher level of professionalism.

Does anyone have access to the entire TK grooming and presentation guidelines?
 
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TK787
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Mon May 06, 2013 1:55 pm

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 24):
Does anyone have access to the entire TK grooming and presentation guidelines?

This is what I came across today on kokpit.aero, a Turkish aviaition website, from UGUR CEBECI's article. (all in Turkish)
I used Google Translate and used some of my own words to help.



THY YÖNETMELİĞİ NE DİYOR

* Hiç makyaj yapmamak veya aşırı olanı yasak. Yönetmeliğe göre makyaj yapmak zorunlu. Ancak frapan olmaması gerekiyor.

* Kaşların doğal görüntüsü bozulmayacak, abartılı biçimde şekillendirme, dövme yapılamaz.

* Göz kalemi siyah, kahverengi, lacivert veya koyu yeşil tonlarda kullanılabilir. Göz kalemi ince olarak sürülebilir. Gözün dış kenarlarına çizilen uzantılar olmamalıdır.

* Uygulanan rimel yalnızca kahve veya siyah renkte olmalıdır.

* Pul ya da sim içeren ürünler kullanılamaz.

* Kırmızı, bordo, pembe ve diğer frapan renkli rujlar kullanılamaz. Seçilen rujun rengi, tene uyumlu pastel tonlarda olmalıdır.

SAÇLARDA PERUK VE TEPEDE TOPUZ YASAK

* Saçlara mutlaka özen gösterilecek, uçuş boyunca derli-toplu olacak biçimde şekil verilecektir.

* Kâhkül kullanılabilir. Kulak çevresinden çıkan uzun bükleler veya saç tutumları olmayacaktır.

* Saçlar, balerin topuzu şeklinde toplanabilir. Topuz kulak hizasından yukarıda veya yanda olamaz. Yan topuz (ense hizasından olmak kaydı ile) kullanılabilir.

* Kullanılan toka saçta gözükmeyecektir. Küçük ince firkete ve küçük incili veya küçük taşlı firkete kullanılabilir.

* Çok tepeden olmamak kaydıyla atkuyruğu yapılabilir.

Saçlar doğal renkte kullanılmalıdır. Doğal renkler dışında (ateş kırmızısı, platin sarısı gibi) kullanılamaz.

* Kısa saçlar fönlenmelidir.

* Peruk, postiş kesinlikle kullanılamaz. Kaynak kullanılıyor ise boncukları gözükmeyece şekilde olmalıdır.

* Boyalı saçların diplerine özen gösterilmelidir.




-GOOGLE TRANSLATE gives you an idea how detailed the TK rules are about makeup and hair;


* No make-up or over doing is forbidden. Make-up is required. However, should not be flamboyant.

* Eyebrows can not be shaped forming an exaggerated manner.

* Eye liner in black, brown, dark blue or dark green shades can be used. Can be as thin eyeliner. Extensions should not be drawn on the outer edges of the eye.

* Implemented mascara should only be brown or black in color.

* Products that contain glitter can not be used.

* Red, purple, pink and other flamboyant colored lipsticks can not be used. The selected color of lipstick, skin should be compatible with pastel tones.

WIGS PROHIBITED

* Hair care must be taken, so that the figure will be compact during the flight.

* Bangs OK. No long curls around the ears or hair.

* Hair, ballerina collected in the form of the knob. Above ear level, or can not be on the bun. Side bun (nape of the neck to be at the level of recording) can be used.

* Hairpins should not appear in the hair. Hairpins should be small and thin and small pearls or small stones can be used.

* Ponytails OK but not too high on the head.

*Hair color should be natural. Other than natural colors (fire-red, platinum, etc.) can not be used.

* Short hair to be flat ironed.

* Wig, hairpiece is strictly prohibited. If used no beads can be seen.

* Dyed hair roots should be taken care of.
 
JQflightie
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Mon May 06, 2013 2:12 pm

we at QF have a 70-odd paged guide on how our uniform has to look, right down to make up worn for the girls and jewelry worn... i think its a common place in an airline to have a Uniform and Grooming standard.
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Tupolev160
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Tue May 07, 2013 1:52 pm

I fully support the move and no, you would be surprised that most of Turkish women actually never use provocative lipstick. I know the "seculars" are irritated thought, cause the country is getting more and more "islamized" and they see it just as a one step further. Mind yourself that the fact Turkish Airlines employees have no right to strike is far more worrisome than this lipstick issue.
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TK787
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Tue May 07, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting Tupolev160 (Reply 27):
Turkish Airlines employees have no right to strike

Let's see what happens next week;
"90% of TK employees may strike come May 15th" (this includes ground crews, cabin crews, pilots....)

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/uni...pageID=238&nID=46161&NewsCatID=341
 
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DocLightning
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Tue May 07, 2013 5:29 pm

IIRC, SQ actually has a team of cosmetologists who individualize the lipstick tone to the F/A's skin color. The F/A is required to wear that color of lipstick while on duty.

This is by no means unique to TK.
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TK787
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 09, 2013 4:47 pm

Hmmm, this is different.
In today's news , TK's CEO T.Kotil says that there is no limitations on lipstick color at TK, this must have been done by some junior management level, he says as of now any lipstick color can be worn at TK.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0509/391291-turkish-airlines-lipstick/
 
Turkish350XWB
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 09, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 30):
Hmmm, this is different.
In today's news , TK's CEO T.Kotil says that there is no limitations on lipstick color at TK, this must have been done by some junior management level, he says as of now any lipstick color can be worn at TK.

Does this make the situation better that such important things can happen in such a big company? This changes the ciriticism from islamistic to incapable.
 
Viscount724
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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 09, 2013 6:19 pm

[/quote]

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 24):
I see nothing wrong with tight uniform and presentation guidelines, that how branding is created. So long as there are no discriminatory policies (regarding age weight, religious garments etc), and the guidelines are equally tough for Men as they are for woman then I feel it contributes to a higher level of professionalism.

Reminds me of Canadian carrier Wardair that had a dispute with their male flight attendants sometime in the 1970s or 80s over whether they could wear earrings. They were permitted for female cabin crew but not male. If memory correct some of the male crew took the issue to the federal government's Human Rights Commission, arguing that it was discriminatory to permit women to wear earrings but not men.. I forget the outcome but I think the airline won that one.

Wardair's founder and majority shareholder, Max Ward (now age 91), was very conservative on such issues.

 
777way
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RE: Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 09, 2013 9:55 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 31):

Also looks like a U-turn after criticism, the junior made the right decision, bright colours look cheap and unprofessional bet it in a secular environment.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours

Thu May 09, 2013 9:57 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 31):
Does this make the situation better that such important things can happen in such a big company? This changes the ciriticism from islamistic to incapable.

I'd say it's neither, but rather that CEO went the PC way.

In practice someone at a lower level made a minor change to the grooming standard to make things clearer, no big deal as we see it's pretty common to have strict rules, but somehow it made it to the social networks and it made more sense image wise to apologize than try to explain things.

I expect that he's even lying because I'm sure he wouldn't support green or gold lipstick.
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