Andrensn
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Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 12:08 pm

Hi all
What is longest runway in the world is that commonly handles passengers and is there any specific to have the runway that long?

Cheers
Andrensn
 
speedbird128
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 12:19 pm

Rwy 14/32 at ZUBD - 5500m/18,045ft

Airfield Elevation 14,219ft AMSL. That's likely the reason. LOL
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PHX787
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 12:24 pm

Yep, the Tibet Airport
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZUBD
There's another airport being built in China with a longer runway...should be finished by next year...

I wonder if there's any videos out there of any takeoffs or landings...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagqu_Dagring_Airport
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Stealthz
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 12:24 pm

As Speedbird said...

Qamdo Bamda Airport (IATA: BPX, ICAO: ZUBD), also known as Changdu Bangda Airport, located in Bamda, Qamdo, Tibet, China is the highest airport in the world, at an elevation of 4,334 metres (14,219 ft).[1] It has the longest publicly used runway in the world, at 5,500 m (18,045 ft).[2]

Google is your friend...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qamdo_Bamda_Airport

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_longest_runways


Cheers
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Beechtobus
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 12:27 pm

Denver Intl. has the longest civilian one in North America at 16,000 ft.
 
speedbird128
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 12:30 pm

Quoting Andrensn (Thread starter):
in the world

=

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 4):
Denver Intl. has the longest civilian one in North America

 
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justinlee
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 12:56 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 2):
I wonder if there's any videos out there of any takeoffs or landings...

Here are some photos taken by someone who worked in this airport.

Link:
http://pic.feeyo.com/posts/137/1370419.html
 
rfields5421
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 12:59 pm

Shouldn't the mods make this thread a sticky at the top?

This question comes up every four to six months.

BTW - the longest runway is not really a good thing according to what I've learned on these threads.

Aircraft tires have maximum speeds. Some of these really long, really high runways can result in heavy aircraft approaching, and possible crossing, the tire maximum speed limits. Greatly increasing the chances of a catastrophic failure at the worst possible time.
 
speedbird128
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 1:24 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
Aircraft tires have maximum speeds. Some of these really long, really high runways can result in heavy aircraft approaching, and possible crossing, the tire maximum speed limits. Greatly increasing the chances of a catastrophic failure at the worst possible time.

Bingo. We have a winner. Even out of JNB on that "little" runway there were occassions where tyre rotation speed brought down payload.... And that is only at 5558' amsl...
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MIflyer12
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 1:40 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
Aircraft tires have maximum speeds. Some of these really long, really high runways can result in heavy aircraft approaching, and possible crossing, the tire maximum speed limits. Greatly increasing the chances of a catastrophic failure at the worst possible time.

Brake energy limits (if aborting take off) can come into play, too. At some point longer runways don't help - nothing but removing weight is going to work.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
Aircraft tires have maximum speeds

I've seen speed limits of 275mph on Delta 757 tires (Michelins).
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 6:08 pm

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 10):
Quoting rfields5421 (Reply 7):
Aircraft tires have maximum speeds

I've seen speed limits of 275mph on Delta 757 tires (Michelins).

Its time at speed (heat) too. And that is the 757 'rocket.'  


Lightsaber
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speedbird2263
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 6:22 pm

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 1):

You wont see any CRJ's in there anytime soon...well...ever  . Flap extension altitude limit for the entire line of CRJ aircraft is 15,000ft. We have issues as is with crews remembering that limit flying in the West(USA) in the higher elevations as downwind for some arpts is close to 15,000ft. The AFM also states a max operating airport pressure altitude of 8000ft.

  
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Rdh3e
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 6:30 pm

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 5):


Oh come on.

Quoting justinlee (Reply 6):
Here are some photos taken by someone who worked in this airport.

According to the crude google translation of the thread, 89 people died of various causes during the construction of the airport. Very sad to consider.
 
mia305
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 7:33 pm

MIAs runway 9/27 is 13,000 feet and when LH flies the 380 it uses
almost the entire length of the runway when it takesoff as well as certain cargo & international flights.

LPB has a 13,100 foot runway but that's because the elevation is over 13,000 above sea level.

[Edited 2013-05-02 12:38:01]
 
jfk777
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 7:52 pm

JFK has a 14,000 foot runway and J'berg has one 16,000 feet.
 
migair54
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 8:02 pm

MAD has very long runways as well, but threshold are displaced.


Few factors can limit the Regulated take off weight of the aircraft:
-Brake energy limit.
-Runway length.
-Second segment climb gradient. (for N-1), more restrictive for twins than 3 or 4 engine plane.
-Maximum tyre speed.
-Density Altitude. (temp, Qnh, runway elevation)

In the case of high elevation runways not only aerodynamics are affected but also engine trust, and that´s because of the air density, the same happens with the lift generated by the wings, and less density means a higher ground speeds, don´t forget that when talking about taking off speed we are talking about IAS (indicated Air Speed) so that´s the plane speed in that mass of air, and not the ground speed. Easy example (not perfectly accurate) 140 Knots of IAS at sea level is around 140 knots of ground Speed, but 140 knots at 14.000´ can easily be 170 knots of ground speed or even more.

so even if the runway is 10 kms long that doesn´t mean that the plane can take off with maximum take off weight.

Usually when airports are limiting the performance of a plane, airlines also limit the seat for sale, they don´t sell the whole plane, they will make a calculation and they will limit accordingly.

Another interesting fact is that in places like La Paz (Bolivia) when in ground the F/O go for walk around and the captain stays in the cockpit with the Oxygen mask on to avoid altitude sickness and planes has to be specially prepare to avoid the auto deployment of the pax mask when cabin altitude is above the usual threshold they are set.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 10:37 pm

YYC's new parallel runway due for completion in 2014 will be Canada's longest at 14,000 ft. The existing longest runway at YYC is currently Canada's longest at 12,675 ft. YYC elevation 3,557 ft. ASL.

GVA's single runway is the longest in Switzerland at 12,795 ft, about 650 ft. longer than the longest runway at ZRH.

[Edited 2013-05-02 16:02:20]
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 10:48 pm

So, I'm sure Dubai will wait a little longer and look around and then build the longest runway in the world, which no other airport can (or would care to) beat...   
 
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 10:53 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
YYC's new parallel runway due for completion in 2014 will be Canada's longest at 14,000 ft. The existing longest runway at YYC is currently Canada's longest at 12,675 ft. YYC elevation 3,557 ft. ASL.

I might add that SLC has plans to extend Runway 16L-34R to 15,500' (4,724m) in the very near future. SLC is the second highest high passenger volume airport in the U.S. after DEN.
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tropical
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 11:04 pm

On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian? I know one such runway was in Spain, and I wonder which one it would have been.
 
scouseflyer
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 11:07 pm

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian? I know one such runway was in Spain, and I wonder which one it would have been.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s#Transoceanic_Abort_Landing_Sites

Sites included RAF Fairford, Zaragoza and Moron airbase
 
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deltacto
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Thu May 02, 2013 11:09 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 16):
Another interesting fact is that in places like La Paz (Bolivia) when in ground the F/O go for walk around and the captain stays in the cockpit with the Oxygen mask on to avoid altitude sickness and planes has to be specially prepare to avoid the auto deployment of the pax mask when cabin altitude is above the usual threshold they are set.

A Braniff DC-8-62 almost crashed at La Paz in 1974 because the pilots failed to use oxygen prior to calculating the takeoff speed

Oxygen Pre-Breathing For Pilots At La Paz? (by mrskyguy Aug 5 2010 in Tech Ops)

La Paz Bolivia Operations (by Levg79 Feb 7 2006 in Tech Ops)
 
ASA
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 12:30 am

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 5):

Quoting Andrensn (Thread starter):
in the world

=

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 4):
Denver Intl. has the longest civilian one in North America

 

that's why the NFL champions are world champions!!  
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 12:45 am

This reminds me of another topic that I've been meaning to ask about: procedures for operating at very high airports. Case in point, the El Alto Airport in Bolivia. Took this picture while we were landing, still in the air:



That is almost four kilometer barometric altitude, inside the cabin. The airport altitude is 4069 meters. As we were descending, the cabin altitude kept increasing!

How do the pilots deal with this situation? Oxygen masks on? And why does the cabin altitude get normalized before landing, why not normalize it to the outside environment *after* landing?
 
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BreninTW
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 1:07 am

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian? I know one such runway was in Spain, and I wonder which one it would have been.

Upington was one of the designated runways. UTN has a 4,900 m runway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upington_Airport
 
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ADent
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 1:20 am

Quoting AirlineCritic (Reply 24):
And why does the cabin altitude get normalized before landing, why not normalize it to the outside environment *after* landing?

The pressure has to be equalized before landing in case of an emergency. Basically all aircraft doors are sealed by the pressure differential and if the pressure is not equalized they physically can not be opened.

It would be terrible if there was a fire on landing and the plane was still pressurized.
 
cornutt
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 1:26 am

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian?

In an emergency, any runway of at least 10,000' was fair game. DFW was often mentioned as an alternate for low-energy situations.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 1:32 am

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
Were any of them civilian?

I believe that Banjul, The Gambia was an emergency landing site for the shuttle.
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Beechtobus
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 2:37 am

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 5):

so the tread should have been closed after the second reply when you answered the OPs question? over yourself man, its a discussion forum.
 
speedbird128
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 6:44 am

It was merely amusing...

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 29):
the tread

Good pun if it was intended. Tyres are often the limiting factor at high altitude airports...

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):
J'berg has one 16,000 feet.

Umm, nope. If you're referring to JNB, then it has 'only' 4418m/14,495feet as its longest (03L/21R). Airfield elevation of 5558' amsl.
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TheSultanOfWing
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 6:50 am

Quoting beechtobus (Reply 29):
it's a discussion forum.

Agreed!

So let me add this to the thread: I think the new Quito airport has the longest runway in Latin America.
Correct?
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tonymctigue
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 10:14 am

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian? I know one such runway was in Spain, and I wonder which one it would have been.

Shannon (SNN), Ireland was one such airport with a 3,200 m runway at an elevation of 14 m.

[Edited 2013-05-03 03:15:17]
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
jfk777
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 11:32 am

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 30):
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 15):J'berg has one 16,000 feet.
Umm, nope. If you're referring to JNB, then it has 'only' 4418m/14,495feet as its longest (03L/21R). Airfield elevation of 5558' amsl.

So I was 1000 feet too generous. JNB or J'berg, there is only one commercial airport in Johannesburg ?
 
breiz
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 2:10 pm

Wait a sec, isn't it the Nazca runways in Peru which are the longest?   
 
tp1040
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 2:37 pm

Threshold length looks to be about 13,700 feet.

Who has the longest runway in terms of threshold length?
 
Woodreau
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 2:57 pm

Quoting speedbird2263 (Reply 12):
You wont see any CRJ's in there anytime soon...well...ever  . Flap extension altitude limit for the entire line of CRJ aircraft is 15,000ft. We have issues as is with crews remembering that limit flying in the West(USA) in the higher elevations as downwind for some arpts is close to 15,000ft. The AFM also states a max operating airport pressure altitude of 8000ft.

There is a mod that ups the max takeoff and landing pressure altitude to 9600ft.

But it is something when you're configuring for landing at 15,000ft. Flaps, gear, flaps 45, increase the power to maintain alittude just as you hit the first detent. Max cruise just to hold pattern altitude.
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SP90
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 5:38 pm

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian? I know one such runway was in Spain, and I wonder which one it would have been.

Check this out there is a whole list of abort sites available. I know they're all retire now but if they ever had to abort into JFK or another equally busy airport the ATC recordings would be interesting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Shuttle_abort_modes
 
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Aesma
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 6:35 pm

Quoting tropical (Reply 20):
On this theme, IIRC the Space Shuttle had a number of designated runways around the world for landing in case of an emergency. Were any of them civilian? I know one such runway was in Spain, and I wonder which one it would have been.

For transatlantic abort (the one that was most likely to happen, after orbital abort) there were two runways in Spain, one in France at Istres-Le Tubé Air Base. That latest one had a runway extension built for Airbus for testing purposes (used for both civilian and military tests, I think the various tail dragging tests are done there, max weight RTO, there is also equipment to wet the runway) and as such has the longest runway in Europe with 4950m/16200ft.

More runways were available but I think some were "more ready", with NASA tracking equipment and personnel manning them.
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rwy04lga
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 7:12 pm

Quoting stealthz (Reply 3):
Qamdo Bamda Airport (IATA: BPX, ICAO: ZUBD), also known as Changdu Bangda Airport, located in Bamda, Qamdo, Tibet, China is the highest airport in the world, at an elevation of 4,334 metres (14,219 ft).[1] It has the longest publicly used runway in the world, at 5,500 m (18,045 ft)

Google maps show that about 4200 feet is unusable, even as a taxiway.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
sandyb123
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 7:37 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 33):
So I was 1000 feet too generous. JNB or J'berg, there is only one commercial airport in Johannesburg ?

JNB is the main airport and the long north south right runway is 14,500ft. I was sitting watching the planes go at JNB last week and noticed that most of the aircraft (even the widebody's) were using only the first half of the runway for T/O rolls.

Jo'burg also has Lanseria International Airport HLA but it's really only for regional flights into Southern Africa and the Cape.

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by738
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 10:22 pm

Wasn't Campbeltown Scotland a Shuttle diversion runway albeit then quasi civil/ military
 
LV
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 10:45 pm

Quoting cornutt (Reply 27):
In an emergency, any runway of at least 10,000' was fair game. DFW was often mentioned as an alternate for low-energy situations.

Ah, I thought I heard IND was a possible diverision point if needed.... so that would make sense if it's any runway over 10k
 
Pihero
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Fri May 03, 2013 11:00 pm

This wiki article answers the question for runways over 4 km long :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_runway
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cornutt
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RE: Longest Civilian Runway In The World?

Sat May 04, 2013 4:38 am

Quoting SP90 (Reply 37):
Check this out there is a whole list of abort sites available. I know they're all retire now but if they ever had to abort into JFK or another equally busy airport the ATC recordings would be interesting.

For most of the post-Challenger period, the four designated TAL sites were, from south to north:

Banjul, The Gambia
Ben Guerir, Morocco
Moron, Spain
Zaragosa, Spain

For a given mission, one was designate primary and one alternate, depending on the orbit inclination. Either the primary or the alternate had to have observed and predicted "go" weather in order for the Shuttle to be go for launch. Moron was not as well equipped as the others and so it was never primary, although it could be an alternate.

There were also two sites designated as "late TAL" sites; these were Anderson AFB in Guam, and Hickham AFB in Hawaii. Late TAL was not an abort mode that would ever be required for an engine failure case; it was for certain systems cases in which the failure occurred after the last standard TAL opportunity, but required the earliest possible landing time. For instance, if a total cooling failure or severe loss of cabin pressure occurred and the Shuttle had already flown too far to land at the designated TAL site, it would land at a late TAL site.

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