JaxMan19
Topic Author
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:16 pm

Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Thu May 02, 2013 11:11 pm

I noticed today that HNL had over 10 departures just to NRT alone ..I did a little more research and found that they have numerous departures to the orient and made me wonder to ask, where is HNL located in the pacific US-oreint market?
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Thu May 02, 2013 11:18 pm

The largest US-Asia/Pacific gateways are

1. LAX
2. SFO
3. HNL
4. GUM
5. NYC
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9606
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Thu May 02, 2013 11:22 pm

NRT-HNL is the largest transpac route based on capacity, but HNL is not the largest Asia/Pacific gateway because outside of Japan, the service to Asia is limited although since the visa waiver program was extended to Korea, ICN has grown.

[Edited 2013-05-02 16:23:50]
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
COSPN
Posts: 1535
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 6:33 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Thu May 02, 2013 11:30 pm

GUM has the most destinations ..but the island is only 160,000 people so limited in how many tourist we can handle but it is over 1 million a year..
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Thu May 02, 2013 11:31 pm

And as far as absolute largest routes with 12-month enplanements.

HNL-NRT - 1,498,175
LAX-NRT - 1,235,145
LAX-SYD - 1,034,192
LAX-ICN - 1,025,360
GUM-NRT - 1,006,974
SFO-HKG - 877,148
LAX-TPE - 872,123
SFO-ICN - 702,794
ORD-NRT - 647,140
SFO-NRT - 600,099
JFK-NRT - 589,510
LAX-HKG - 539,848
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Fri May 03, 2013 1:28 am

LAX, is the above data for 2012? Do you have data for North America's top 10 overall to Japan?

[Edited 2013-05-02 18:30:23]
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Fri May 03, 2013 5:11 am

Yes for 12-months ended September 2012.

Don't have access rest of this week, but next week I can get you a list. When you say Japan-North America, you mean USA right (excluding Hawaii and Guam/Saipan?). Don't have access to Canadian stats.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
mia305
Posts: 322
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:26 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Fri May 03, 2013 11:54 pm

I remeber back in 97 there seemed to be DC10s and 747s taking off almost every hour
by NW and JAL heading towards asia. I know NW was pretty decent in HNL. Not sure
If its the same now with DL there after the merger.
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Sat May 04, 2013 3:59 am

Quoting JaxMan19 (Thread starter):
I noticed today that HNL had over 10 departures just to NRT alone

It is the Golden Week holiday here in Japan, so there maybe some extra flights. Just off top my head scheduled flights (NRT-HNL) are:
KE-A333, CI-744, UA-777, NH-763, DL-2x744, JL-2x763 & 772.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 7):
I know NW was pretty decent in HNL. Not sure
If its the same now with DL there after the merger

Pretty much the same, if not more, except that there are now 763s in the mix.
Obviously JL has dramatically shrunk, but add in Hawaiian.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Sun May 05, 2013 7:25 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Don't have access rest of this week, but next week I can get you a list. When you say Japan-North America, you mean USA right (excluding Hawaii and Guam/Saipan?). Don't have access to Canadian stats.

Oh I see. Thanks for the offer, but it would be really interesting to see how YYZ and YVR stack up to some of these US figures.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
PITrules
Posts: 2109
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 11:27 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Tue May 07, 2013 9:04 pm

I took this photo 8 years ago, I would estimate JAL occupied 1/4 of HNL's terminal facilities..

There was a 7th jumbo not in the pic, it was off to the right tucked in the corner.


http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0001-4_zps88b5ac6e.jpg
FLYi
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 4431
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:16 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Tue May 07, 2013 9:42 pm

As far as US-Japan O&D is concerned, yes HNL is the largest market.

To Asia overall, no. LAX, NYC, and SFO are all larger.
It is what it is...
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Wed May 08, 2013 2:06 am

Top US-Japan markets in enplanements for the first 10-months of 2012.

Mainland
HND-JFK - 56,868
HND-LAX - 220,097
HNL-SFO - 109,431

NRT-ATL - 166,912
NRT-BOS - 53,112
NRT-DFW - 240,811
NRT-DTW - 190,740
NRT-EWR - 135,245
NRT-IAD - 236,142
NRT-IAH - 141,672
NRT-JFK - 446,968
NRT-LAX - 1,046,631
NRT-MSP - 140,689
NRT-ORD - 563,856
NRT-PDX - 98,664
NRT-SEA - 320,219
NRT-SFO - 536,543

KIX-JFK - 75,566
KIX-SEA - 75,327
KIX-SFO - 117,702

NGO-DTW - 168,929


Hawaii
HNL-CTS - 4,758
HNL-FUK - 115,138
HNL-HND - 410,879
HNL-KIX - 434,848
HNL-NGO - 214,275
HNL-NRT - 1,332,817
HNL-SDJ - 4,563


Guam/Saipan
GUM-CTS - 20,386
GUM-FUK - 51,873
GUM-HIJ - 13,371
GUM-KIJ - 9,760
GUM-KIX - 356,262
GUM-NGO - 199,343
GUM-NRT - 915,584
GUM-OKA - 11,032
GUM-OKJ - 12,570
GUM-SDJ - 17,761

SPN-NRT - 210,436

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
mercure1
Posts: 2732
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Wed May 08, 2013 12:26 pm

Japan sure loves their beach holidays.

Interesting to see how concentrated longhaul service to US is from Tokyo.

Even huge metro's like Osaka (18million people) and Nagoya (10mil) barely sustain any service.

Why does neither have link to largest US market like Los Angeles for example?
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Wed May 08, 2013 12:50 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 13):
Why does neither have link to largest US market like Los Angeles for example?

Two words: TSA and visas.
Hugely popular destination prior to 2001 but Europe, southeast Asia and other markets have taken their place.
 
infinit
Posts: 874
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 1:12 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Wed May 08, 2013 1:36 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):


The thread starter says US- Japan/Orient. This would only refer to Northeast Asia like China, Korea and Taiwan.

The data you posted though is for Asia Pacific which would include Southeast Asia like Thailand and Singapore.
 
mercure1
Posts: 2732
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Wed May 08, 2013 7:01 pm

Do Japan no longer view America as interesting market still?

I know it seems China is starting to eclipse Japan as the big outbound tourism producer these days.

[Edited 2013-05-08 12:03:39]
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Wed May 08, 2013 7:04 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 13):
Even huge metro's like Osaka (18million people) and Nagoya (10mil) barely sustain any service.
Why does neither have link to largest US market like Los Angeles for example?

Historically both cities had LAX links, but none at the moment.

Its probably also important to note that Japan-US market has seen continued to shrinkage over the last decade.

Some reasons are probably economic, however much of it has to do with Japan no longer being the defacto gateway to broader Far-East as airlines have pursued growth of direct services deeper into the region, and as other airports such as ICN have arrived on the scene as viable gateways themselves.

Quoting infinit (Reply 15):
The thread starter says US- Japan/Orient. This would only refer to Northeast Asia like China, Korea and Taiwan.

The data you posted though is for Asia Pacific which would include Southeast Asia like Thailand and Singapore.

The US DOT classifies regional entities and traffic statistics into 3 buckets - Pacific, Latin and Atlantic, so what I post will be inclusive of all activity across such regions.

You'll have to ask the OPer as to what he might consider to be "Orient".
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
luckyone
Posts: 2280
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:50 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Wed May 08, 2013 7:16 pm

Quoting carpethead (Reply 14):
Two words: TSA and visas.

Japan is a participant in the visa waiver program, and as such its citizens do not require a visa. Secondly, Hawaii, being part of the United States, falls under the same rules for visas and TSA as LAX, so those probably aren't very good ones.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 18859
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Wed May 08, 2013 10:08 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Its probably also important to note that Japan-US market has seen continued to shrinkage over the last decade.

Some reasons are probably economic, however much of it has to do with Japan no longer being the defacto gateway to broader Far-East as airlines have pursued growth of direct services deeper into the region, and as other airports such as ICN have arrived on the scene as viable gateways themselves.

Apart from the weak Japanese economy, the Japanese population is also shrinking and rapidly aging. More Japanese are dying than being born due to a very low birth rate.
 
hawaiian717
Posts: 3139
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:46 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Thu May 09, 2013 5:38 am

Quoting PITrules (Reply 10):
I took this photo 8 years ago, I would estimate JAL occupied 1/4 of HNL's terminal facilities..

Looks about right. It used to be that in the morning, the Ewa Concourse would be pretty much all JAL/JALways/Japan Air Charter 747s, with the occasional DC-10, and ANA way down at gate 34. By 11-noon they'd be clearing out and Hawaiian's morning departures from the west coast would be arriving.

Seems like now JAL has far fewer flights, and mostly 767s with some 777s.
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Thu May 09, 2013 6:36 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Some reasons are probably economic,

More like most!

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 13):
Even huge metro's like Osaka (18million people) and Nagoya (10mil) barely sustain any service.

The markets themselves are important to look at. Osaka has a huge population but traditionally has had a more manufacturing-based economy than Tokyo. It is more difficult for people in those jobs here to get the vacation time needed to go anywhere, compared to the office jobs that dominate Tokyo.

Japanese in Tokyo are also more loose with their disposable income. Nagoya, for example, is well known throughout Japan as a conservative town that doesn't part with money easily, despite the fact that salaries on on par with Tokyo and household savings are actually higher than any other metro in Japan (probably because fewer people spend thousands of dollars a year on overseas family holidays).

The only reason NGO has had DTW service forever is because of Toyota and their group companies' massive footprint in Michigan and the Ohio River valley.

All three metros have seen pretty stable service (if not increases) to destinations like Bali, Guam, and Cheju. Hawaii will never lose its appeal, particularly to honeymooners and retired persons, but it ain't what it used to be either.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 13):
Interesting to see how concentrated longhaul service to US is from Tokyo.

It's not all that surprising. The majority of Americans residing in Japan live in the Kanto area, and a clear majority of American firms with significant Japanese operations are also HQ'd in the region.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
SurfandSnow
Posts: 1051
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:09 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Thu May 09, 2013 7:20 am

Keep in mind that Japan was the second country to join the U.S. Visa Waiver Program (months after the U.K.) back in 1988. Thus, for 2 1/2 decades Japanese citizens have enjoyed hassle-free access to Hawaii, whilst all other Asians* have had to do the arduous U.S. visa routine process (high processing fees, face to face interviews at the American embassy or consulate, etc.), even just for a Hawaiian vacation. Almost all traffic on these flights is inbound Asian tourists. As such, pretty much all Asian traffic at HNL has been service to Japan - since the advent of the 747-400, anyway. Really the only exception is the Philippines, which has unique political and sociocultural ties to the Hawaii and of course the U.S. at large. Now we are starting to see new opportunities arise as other major countries like South Korea and Taiwan join the Visa Waiver Program, while airlines are still hesitant to serve Hawaii from non-VWP nations other than the Philippines - even China. Hopefully HA's new HNL-PEK will be successful in spite of the onerous American visa rules for Chinese citizens, though!

*Except the citizens of Brunei, since 1993, Singapore, since 1999, South Korea, since 2008, and Taiwan, since 2012.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Thu May 09, 2013 3:21 pm

Since I mentioned the large decline in traffic between Japan and the US, let me supply the numbers.

Total enplanements:
2000 - 15,248,725
2001 - 14,642,994
2002 - 13,103,061
2003 - 12,662,564
2004 - 13,055,435
2005 - 13,356,808
2006 - 12,813,167
2007 - 12,075,037
2008 - 11,286,645
2009 - 10,826,781
2010 - 10,773,156
2011 - 10,199,965


Almost a 50% drop in a decade !
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
mercure1
Posts: 2732
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Thu May 09, 2013 10:20 pm

Out of ciriosity, what does traffic look like from other markets like Korea, Tiawan, Chona etc to US?
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Thu May 09, 2013 11:59 pm

Enplanements.

China
2000 - 636,567
2011 - 3,319,336

Hong Kong
2000 - 1,413,506
2011 - 2,341,894

Taiwan
2000 - 2,272,197
2011 - 2,488,218

South Korea
2000 - 2,848,562
2011 - 4,441,065

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Fri May 10, 2013 12:03 am

Interesting, so interpolating a bit based on the above, around 2008-2010 would have been the first time China + HK + Taiwan + South Korea combined for more total enplanements than Japan.
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2563
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 8:15 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Fri May 10, 2013 1:02 pm

Quoting luckyone (Reply 18):
Japan is a participant in the visa waiver program

Yes, I am aware of the visa waiver, but still one travelling to the US need to go on-line or have the travel agent fill out forms, etc. Plus horror news stories of long security lines, taking off footware, etc puts off the average Japanese tourist from travelling to the US. Yes, the US has lost tourist luster from Japan.
Conversely, EU has no documention to be filled out prior to arrival. Many of the Asian countries, all that's required are entry customs forms. Easy.
That said, there is still plenty of business travel between the countries and other going via Japan.
 
LAXintl
Posts: 20183
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Fri May 10, 2013 2:33 pm

Quoting aaron747 (Reply 26):
Interesting, so interpolating a bit based on the above, around 2008-2010 would have been the first time China + HK + Taiwan + South Korea combined for more total enplanements than Japan.

The growth of these other markets, especially China and Korea are quite impressive. Also with Korea and Taiwan as recent entrants in the Visa Waiver Program that should help push travel up even further.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
Aaron747
Posts: 8529
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2003 2:07 am

RE: Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?

Fri May 10, 2013 2:52 pm

Quoting carpethead (Reply 27):
Plus horror news stories of long security lines, taking off footware, etc puts off the average Japanese tourist from travelling to the US.

Absolutely. Pretty much every person I know who travels to the US comes back complaining of how they were treated by airport officials, particularly customs. One guy told me "I really don't understand what they are doing to us - people from here are not terrorists!" So I responded with "Japanese customs does the same thing to me."
If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], calt03, dennys, Indy, JU068, kriskim, paulsaz, RalXWB, rutankrd, SAAFNAV, SESGDL, Thule, XAM2175, zaphod42 and 192 guests