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787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Fri May 03, 2013 2:21 pm

With part 13 now having over 230 replys, its time to start the next thread

Link to previous thread 787 Production/Delivery Thread Part 13 (by iowaman Jan 14 2013 in Civil Aviation)
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Fri May 03, 2013 2:55 pm

From United787 who compiled the list from All Things 787

Quote:
DELIVERED TO DATE: 50 Aircraft to 8 Airlines

DELIVERIES PRIOR TO 2013
NH-17; JL-7; UA–6; AI-5; QR-5; ET-4; LA-3; LO-2

2013 DELIVERIES TO DATE
L/N 54 - VT-ANJ – 3/28/2013 - AI #6

NEXT IN LINE FOR DELIVERY Rough Estimate - We won't really know until they are actually delivered...
L/N 83 - JA818A - x/xx/2013 - NH #18
L/N 72 - VT-ANM – x/xx/2013 - AI #7
L/N 43 - B-2727 – x/xx/2013 - CZ #1
L/N 73 - B-2728 – x/xx/2013 - HU #1
L/N 89 – JA830J – x/xx/2013 – JL #8
L/N 90 - VT-ANN – x/xx/2013 - AI #8
L/N 92 - G-TUIA – x/xx/2013 – BY #1
L/N 76 - B-2722 – x/xx/2013 - HU #2
L/N 34 – B-2725 – x/xx/2013 - CZ #2
L/N 81 - B-2723 – x/xx/2013 - HU #3
L/N 86 – SP-LRC – x/xx/2013 – LO #3

I'm expecting NH deliveries to commence within the middle of the month. They really wanna get back into the swing of things asap.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Fri May 03, 2013 4:52 pm

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Fri May 03, 2013 5:04 pm

As always, thank you to All Things 787 (NYC777) and others for the information that is summarized here. For more specific information on the aircraft in production, I recommend going to http://nyc787.blogspot.com/

DELIVERED TO DATE: 50 Aircraft to 8 Airlines

DELIVERIES PRIOR TO 2013
NH-17; JL-7; UA–6; AI-5; QR-5; ET-4; LA-3; LO-2

2013 DELIVERIES TO DATE
L/N 54 - VT-ANJ – 3/28/2013 - AI #6

NEXT IN LINE FOR DELIVERY Rough Estimate
L/N 83 - JA818A - x/xx/2013 - NH #18
L/N 72 - VT-ANM – x/xx/2013 - AI #7
L/N 43 - B-2727 – x/xx/2013 - CZ #1
L/N 73 - B-2728 – x/xx/2013 - HU #1
L/N 89 – JA830J – x/xx/2013 – JL #8
L/N 90 - VT-ANN – x/xx/2013 - AI #8
L/N 92 - G-TUIA – x/xx/2013 – BY #1
L/N 76 - B-2722 – x/xx/2013 - HU #2
L/N 34 – B-2725 – x/xx/2013 - CZ #2
L/N 81 - B-2723 – x/xx/2013 - HU #3
L/N 94 - G-TUIB – x/xx/2013 – BY #2
L/N 86 – SP-LRC – x/xx/2013 – LO #3
L/N 79 - B-2730 – x/xx/2013 - HU #4 Awaiting first flight
L/N 87 - SP-LRD – x/xx/2013 – LO #4 Awaiting first flight
L/N 88 - SP-LRE – x/xx/2013 – LO #5 Awaiting first flight
L/N 93 - B-2733 – x/xx/2013 - CZ #3 Awaiting first flight
L/N 95 - B-2734 – x/xx/2013 – CZ #4 Awaiting first flight
L/N 85 - B–2732 - x/xx/2013 - HU #5 Awaiting first flight
L/N 96 - G-TUIC – x/xx/2013 – BY #3 Awaiting first flight
L/N 39 - ET-AOO – xx/xx/2013 - ET #5 Awaiting first flight
L/N 97 - JA819A - x/xx/2013 - NH #19 Awaiting first flight
L/N 98 – JA831J – x/xx/2013 - JL #9 Awaiting first flight
L/N 99 - A7-BCD – x/xx/2013 - QR #6 Awaiting first flight
L/N 91 - VT-ANO – x/xx/2013 - AI #9 Awaiting first flight
L/N 100 - B-2735 – x/xx/2013 – CZ #5 Awaiting first flight
L/N 101 - JA820A - x/xx/2013 - NH #20 Awaiting first flight
L/N 102 – LN-BKA - x/xx/2013 - DY #1 (ILFC) Awaiting first flight
L/N 103 - A7-BCE – x/xx/2013 - QR #7 Awaiting first flight
L/N 105 – JA832J – x/xx/2013 - JL #10 Awaiting first flight
L/N 32 - VT-ANG – x/xx/2013 - AI #10 Awaiting first flight
L/N 106 - G-TUID – x/xx/2013 – BY #4 Awaiting first flight
L/N 107 - JA821A - x/xx/2013 - NH #21 Awaiting first flight
L/N 108 – G-ZBJA - x/xx/2013 - BA #1 Awaiting first flight
L/N 110 - JA822A - x/xx/2013 - NH #22 Awaiting first flight
L/N 111 – G-ZBJB - x/xx/2013 - BA #2 Awaiting first flight
L/N 112 – LN-BKB - x/xx/2013 - DY #2 (ILFC) Awaiting first flight
L/N 21 – JA823J – x/xx/2013 - JL #11 Awaiting first flight
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Fri May 03, 2013 5:59 pm

I could be wrong but this looks like a C1 flight:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...2/history/20130503/1800Z/KPAE/KPAE

This one is JA818A for ANA.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Fri May 03, 2013 6:10 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 4):
I could be wrong but this looks like a C1 flight:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/B...2/history/20130503/1800Z/KPAE/KPAE

This one is JA818A for ANA

This is way to short for a "normal" ANA C-1 unless they've changed their profile -- actually no customer profiles are that short. It's probably a cleanup B flight prior to C-1.
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Fri May 03, 2013 6:13 pm

Let's have a little more patience than  
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Fri May 03, 2013 6:18 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
Let's have a little more patience than

Maybe tomorrow. But on ANA's homefront things are moving right along:

As of May 2nd -- 10 airplanes under going modification/ 4 awaiting modification -- 3 airplanes flying have completed 16 of the ### of flights before service starts again.
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 1:16 am

LN 11, LN 12, and LN 14 are all destined for Transaero Airlines. They've been assigned var numbers ZA800, ZA801 and ZA803. Please see my tables.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 8:06 am

Seems like the rumors are true.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 8:34 am

Quoting nyc777 (Reply 8):
LN 11, LN 12, and LN 14 are all destined for Transaero Airlines. They've been assigned var numbers ZA800, ZA801 and ZA803. Please see my tables.

Do you think there will be a fourth frame as has been previously suggested?

tortugamon
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 9:19 am

Quoting nyc777 (Reply 8):
Please see my tables.

And LN26 is now inside the EMC, we wont see this one for the next 6-8 months I guess.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 9:53 am

As if it there aren't enough daylight hours in a day... B-2725 (China Southern #1) is currently doing a PAE-SEA-PDX-MWH-PAE test flight in the middle of the night Pacific time.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE380

Only thing i can think of is that its daylight here in China so perhaps part of the CAAC certification?!?

Anyone else have better ideas?

Cheers
A

[Edited 2013-05-04 02:55:23]
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 9:55 am

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 12):
CAAC certification

I think you hit the nail here.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 2:18 pm

Expect NH deliveries to commence sometime next week or the week after. I don't know why that C1 flight didn't happen but 818A should be the next one to NH. My friend told me that they're starting to finish up the mods (see the other thread, Mr. hkcanadaexpat hit it right on the nail with his information too) and once they start finishing test flights they'll begin to accept deliveries again.

Quoting nyc777 (Reply 8):
LN 11, LN 12, and LN 14 are all destined for Transaero Airlines. They've been assigned var numbers ZA800, ZA801 and ZA803. Please see my tables.

Man are they getting these at a discount? Last I hear Transaero loves their discounted airplanes.

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 12):
Only thing i can think of is that its daylight here in China so perhaps part of the CAAC certification?!?

Are they like, Skyping the information right back to CAAC headquarters? Kinda odd, but hey looks like CAAC is finally getting things straight with the 788 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 2:22 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 14):
Man are they getting these at a discount?

No, at list price  

Seriously, those terrible teens are not as bad as it sounds. They are already burning less fuel than the 767 so if you don't need the range, they will serve you well.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 2:36 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 15):

Also, don't forget the benefit of CFRP, no corrosion in the skin like with metals, lower maintenance bills. If the LN20+ frames burn 21% less than the 767 the "terrible" teens might do a good 15% below the 767?

They get these frames for a very good price, probably so low they more than make up the overweight on them in fuel bills.
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 3:09 pm

Anyone have news about CZ's 787???
I know that they are performing test-flight now and China Government has already approve the 787 operation in China (They refused to approve it which lead to the delay of delivery to CZ & HU prior to the global grounding).

Really looking forward to fly CZ's 787 (my 1st 787 flight) (and will try my best to be on their 1st flight if possible)
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 10):
Do you think there will be a fourth frame as has been previously suggested?

They are buying 4 787s so yes there will be a fourth frame. If it's one of the terrible teens, I don't know.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 5:46 pm

By the time they are delivered at least the Terrible teens will probably have Up to date engines with all the PIP's - so the fuel burn might not be that bad?
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sat May 04, 2013 5:47 pm

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 12):
As if it there aren't enough daylight hours in a day... B-2725 (China Southern #1) is currently doing a PAE-SEA-PDX-MWH-PAE test flight in the middle of the night Pacific time.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE380

Only thing i can think of is that its daylight here in China so perhaps part of the CAAC certification?!?

Anyone else have better ideas?

Cheers
A
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 13):
I think you hit the nail here.

Most if not all regulatory flights deal with maneuvers that are done during daylight. I also don't remember ever having to do a flight based on the regulatory agency's time zone. If they're flying in the middle of the night it's probably because whatever test they're doing requires darkness. Interesting flight plan however, especially the low altitude work on the GEG-PAE leg.
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sun May 05, 2013 12:46 pm

Quoting morrisond (Reply 19):
By the time they are delivered at least the Terrible teens will probably have Up to date engines with all the PIP's - so the fuel burn might not be that bad?

Correct, but they are still 4 to 6 tonnes overweight which is a lot of dead weight to carry.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sun May 05, 2013 1:49 pm

When is Transaero supposed to take delivery of these aircrafts?
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sun May 05, 2013 1:51 pm

I believe deliveries are slated for the second half of next year.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sun May 05, 2013 3:32 pm

The Gulf Times seems convinced that Qatar is getting the 789 next year while the latest Boeing order/delivery list still shows only 30 788 for Qatar (13 of which have already been sequenced). Either they're full of themselves, either we'll see a conversion or either we'll see a new order. something's got to give!
A

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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sun May 05, 2013 4:34 pm

Quoting hkcanadaexpat (Reply 24):
The Gulf Times seems convinced that Qatar is getting the 789 next year

Late last year Flight Global ran an article about AAB wanting the 787-10X where he stated he could change between any variant. The article actually says the following:

-The carrier has firm orders and options in place for a total of 60 787s, without a definite commitment for any variant
-He indicates that a substantial number of these could be -10Xs. "Qatar still has 59 aircraft to be delivered, he says. So we have the flexibility to change the type within the 787 family.


While I would think they could not select the -10X without additional consideration, they must have already made some selection for the -9 that Boeing has not made public. Not sure why though as others have made the change and that has been publicly announced. Interesting.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-proposed-787-10x-al-baker-378899/

tortugamon
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Sun May 05, 2013 4:42 pm

Please let's not turn the production thread into a order/delivery thread.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Tue May 07, 2013 11:00 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 26):

It is a production/delivery thread.
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Tue May 07, 2013 7:28 pm

Speaking of production, looks like ANA ZA512 (83) could be off on a C-1 shortly. Watch for the telltale 360 turn over ONP.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE512
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Wed May 08, 2013 7:12 am

The third 787 for BA (LN114) is outside the factory:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonm/8718401919/in/photostream
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Wed May 08, 2013 2:06 pm

"On Tuesday, India’s Directorate General of Civil Aviation gave the go-ahead to the planes after a joint meeting of officials from Air India and Dreamliner-maker Boeing."

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/kt-artic...viation_May15.xml&section=aviation

On Monday ZA242 (VT-ANN) ferried from PAE to BFI. Delivery imminent now that India's DGCA has approved the fix?

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE242
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Wed May 08, 2013 3:02 pm

Quoting CATDADDY63 (Reply 30):

On Monday ZA242 (VT-ANN) ferried from PAE to BFI. Delivery imminent now that India's DGCA has approved the fix?

First it needs a customer flight unless they're waiving that requirement.
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Wed May 08, 2013 3:09 pm

Thomson Airways says they plan on taking their first 787 before May 31st. Should be in Manchester, UK by that date.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Wed May 08, 2013 5:06 pm

The first tail plane section of ZB001 (the first 787-9) recently arrived in Everett.

http://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/332178034683682816

[Edited 2013-05-08 10:23:18]
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Wed May 08, 2013 6:16 pm

That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Wed May 08, 2013 7:21 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 21):
Quoting morrisond (Reply 19):
By the time they are delivered at least the Terrible teens will probably have Up to date engines with all the PIP's - so the fuel burn might not be that bad?

Correct, but they are still 4 to 6 tonnes overweight which is a lot of dead weight to carry.

Which frame was the first to receive a MTOW boost? (I used to know, IIRC #21 was the first increased MTOW but...  &nbsp  so those early frames not only have 4 to 6 tons of 'deadweight,' but that added weight comes right out of the fuel budget with no option to just 'add fuel' to get the job done. Those would be true 767 replacements.    Ok, a little more range and better fuel burn/payload at range, but not in the same league as more recent deliveries.

Do we have a summary of airframes at certain milestones by line number?

e.g.,
Line number #7, first with 7,400nm range
Line number#20 (or #21) (I speculate) first with higher MTOW. I'm going from memory...
Line number#66, first built that do not require rework/change incorporation (per all things 787). Excludes the battery...
Line number #90 (per aspire aviation) was to be first frame at target empty weight (slipping)
Line number#103 Meets target weight (per 2nd apire aviation link below).

I'd also love to know which line numbers were the first to reach certain still air ranges with nominal passenger payload... e.g., the original quoted ranges on the 'terrible teens' with the Package A Trents was low (~ 7,400nm, with Airbus claiming 6,800nm for the still unsold earliest examples). In particular, which line number was first to 8,000nm potential range?


http://nyc787.blogspot.com/2012/10/a...iation-787-8-still-overweight.html
http://www.aspireaviation.com/2013/0...ng-787-is-a-dream-come-true-again/

old thread where we talked about the 7,400nm range due to the overweight issue/fuel burn miss:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...ral_aviation/print.main?id=4144360


Now I have a serious engine question. Is the GenX-1B PIP retrofit-table back to the initial engines/nacelles due to the effective increase in fan diameter? Did GE just push the fan forward to a larger diameter part of the casing, or is a new fan casing required?

Per the 2nd Aspire aviation link:
This is crucial to enabling the Boeing 787 to be continuously improved and further increase its market appeal as being a uniquely positioned point-to-point aircraft as the GEnx-1B missed close to 3% in specific fuel consumption (SFC) before the PIP 1 clawing back 1.7% and the PIP 2 another 1%, of which General Electric (GE) officials are adamant that these will enable the GEnx-1B engine to meet or be slightly better than the original SFC specification.

Similarly, Rolls-Royce is expected to introduce the Trent 1000-TEN (Thrust Efficiency New Technology) in the first half of 2016, which will incorporate improvements from the Trent XWB and slash the Trent 1000 Package B’s specific fuel consumption (SFC) by 3%, whereas the Package B is understood to still be 3% higher than the original engine SFC, Aspire Aviation‘s sources at Boeing say (“Boeing is in no rush to fast-track future widebody strategy“, 27th Nov, 12). The Package A engine was said to have missed original SFC target by 4.3%.


I look forward to seeing later 788s replace 777L. (Ok, I hold hope for a restart in the ULH market.)

Lightsaber

[Edited 2013-05-08 12:25:02]
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 9:01 am

Boeing has rolled out the first 787 built at the 7/month rate. Sorry, no link as this was from the Boeing internal news site. This was LN 114, and was also the 100th Everett-built 787.

Says something about the inventory they have on hand when they've delivered only 50 and are rolling out LN 114...
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 1:59 pm

Quoting dynamicsguy (Reply 36):
Boeing has rolled out the first 787 built at the 7/month rate. Sorry, no link as this was from the Boeing internal news site. This was LN 114, and was also the 100th Everett-built 787.

Says something about the inventory they have on hand when they've delivered only 50 and are rolling out LN 114...

Do you know the date it rolled out?
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 2:02 pm

Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 2:14 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 38):
May 7 ?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/moonm/8...tream

Usually Boeig rolls out completed airframes one day before loading a new one in position 1. Boeing loaded LN 122 on May 7th and needed to have moved LN 114 out on May 6th.
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 3:10 pm

Air India just confirmed its latest planned 788 delivery schedule:
> Already Delivered: 6
> Rest of 2013: 7
> 2014: 5
> 2015: 6
> 2016: 3

The 7 for Rest of 2013 are:
> VT-ANM (flying @ Charleston)
> VT-ANN (flying @ Everett)
> VT-ANO (awaiting first flight @ Charleston)
> VT-ANG (awaiting first flight @ Everett)
> VT-ANB (getting refurbished @ EMC)
> VT-ANC (getting refurbished @ EMC)
> VT-ANE (getting refurbished @ EMC)

The last of the early frames needing re-furb (VT-ANA) will be delivered in 2014.

Cheers
A
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 3:18 pm

Are you sure about VT-ANB and VT-ANC? Those two went just inside and early frames spend about 8 months in there.

Quoting nyc777 (Reply 39):
Usually Boeig rolls out completed airframes one day before loading a new one in position 1. Boeing loaded LN 122 on May 7th and needed to have moved LN 114 out on May 6th.

May 6th sounds plausible than.

Here is the Boeing press release:

http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=43&item=2672

And a video:

http://www.boeing.com/boeing/Feature...05/bca_rate_increase_05_09_13.page

[Edited 2013-05-09 08:40:42]
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 3:52 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 41):
Are you sure about VT-ANB and VT-ANC? Those two went just inside and early frames spend about 8 months in there.

They won't have to be in there for 8 months as they won't need to have as much re-work as the earlier frames. Also Boeing has probably gotten more efficient at the 787 change incorp so it'll go faster.
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NYC777
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 3:58 pm

ZA184 for JAL has filed for it's B-2 flight:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE184
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 4:02 pm

There was a block change after LN19 if I remember it correctly. However, LN21 spent about 8 months inside the EMC and LN20 is still inside there since September 2012. Is there such a big difference between LN21 and LN25-26?

Do you know when LN32 went inside?
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 4:09 pm

Quoting nyc777 (Reply 43):
ZA184 for JAL has filed for it's B-2 flight:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/BOE184

Actually this is probably a C-1 -- watch for the telltale 360 over ONP.
 
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 4:26 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 44):
Do you know when LN32 went inside?

Don't know the date but within the last 2-3 weeks.
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KarelXWB
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 4:27 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 41):
Here is the Boeing press release:

The press release contains an interesting picture of the assembly line in CHS (is there a high-res version available?):



Besides the U turn, we can see 3 birds with engines attached. In Everett, engines are only installed at position 4 of the assembly line. Secondly, one can see a lot of scaffolding underneath the wings of the 787 in front; scaffolding is not used anymore in Everett.

http://oi39.tinypic.com/2zf7w2g.jpg

[Edited 2013-05-09 09:30:12]
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NYC777
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 47):
In Everett, engines are only installed at position 4 of the assembly line.

Engines are attached in position 2 not position 4.

[Edited 2013-05-09 09:51:37]
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Captain.MD-11
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RE: 787 Production/delivery Thread Part 14

Thu May 09, 2013 5:00 pm

Any ideas as to when DY will take delivery of their first 787 and whether they will utilise it on the JFK or BKK run?

I'm booked ARN-BKK in the last couple of days of July and don't know which to expect, the Hifly 340 or 787.

Thanks
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