JoePatroni707
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Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sat May 04, 2013 11:13 pm

Seems to me the whole thing got blown out of proportion. Flight attendants tend to do that. However, always two sides to a story...

http://gma.yahoo.com/blogs/abc-blogs...line-over-soda-spat-135121857.html
 
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FedExFlyerPHL
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sat May 04, 2013 11:32 pm

I don't understand what the big deal was about using the console to order. I actually find it more convenient.
Home base: SNA, LGB, LAX
 
thegoldenargosy
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sat May 04, 2013 11:33 pm

I'd like to hear what the flight attendants have to say. After working in the industry I tend to believe the employee over the passenger.
 
FlyKev
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sat May 04, 2013 11:39 pm

If they called the cops on him, that is over the top - however suing for $500,000 in damages is in no way legitimate compensation for what happened. The original $3000 and even the $5000 VX offered this passenger seemed much more reasonable.
What a joke.

Kevin.
The white zone is for immediate loading and unloading of passengers only
 
727LOVER
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sat May 04, 2013 11:46 pm

From the article:


"I'm going to have some kind of record because of a flight attendant fabricating events?" says Bevivino

What recprd???????  

He wasnt arrested!  
Love Trumps Hate
 
BMI727
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 12:08 am

No matter what did or did not occur on the flight, this passenger is a blithering idiot. Nobody would know anything about this had he not made a big deal of this by filing suit and taking it to the media. The guy is a moron and and a drama queen.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 12:24 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 4):
"I'm going to have some kind of record because of a flight attendant fabricating events?" says Bevivino

A record of Dutch oven-ing a plane load of people ? We all make choices...
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 12:37 am

Wow. Well I doubt the crew would call the police on him for nothing... maybe calling the police was over the top for what he really might have done but I'm sure there had to be something... something is fishy...

And boo hoo, cry me a river, I'm sure he wasn't $500,000 traumatized by this ordeal. Some people have way too much time on their hands
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
strangr
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 12:47 am

Typical American attitude I think.

The customer was asked to do it as per policy, but refused and again pressed the call button even after being asked to do it said way.

Its not that hard really to follow the rules, but from my experience in the USA no one is willing to compromise on the fact that I'll do it my way and eventually you'll do what i tell you to cause i am the customer.

$500k lawsuit again typical American attitude, this would be laughed at all the way to the footpath in Australia, but again this keep an over litigated society employed.
 
NWAROOSTER
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 12:51 am

The airline should have offered the passenger an apology in writing and paid him the money it originally offered and guaranteed the passenger NO record of the incident would appear in any police or other record that would name or involve the passenger. In other words, the incident should have been "expunged" at the airlines expense. I think the passenger would have accepted it.. I would have, but most likely never fly on that airline again. Involving the police had to be the stupidest thing that could have be done. The airline employees need to be reeducated in passenger relations. The police have better and more important things to handle than petty stupidity. Safety of flight or the crew was never involved.
I think requiring a passenger to order a soda or make any other request electronically is stupid and ludicrous. The flight attendant could have simply told him, he could buy one and charge him for it. The unfortunate thing is now that most airlines now do not trust their employees with cash and require passengers to use electronic terminals , such as the one on the back of the seat, to keep a record of what is sold. Payment also may be required with a credit card. Life, now days is just too complicated and people are required to waste time to do the simplest things. Not everyone will die because they do not have an iPhone, iPad or some other electronic device.
It should be KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid.   
Procrastination Is The Theft Of Time.......
 
Type-Rated
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 1:03 am

Quoting strangr (Reply 8):
Its not that hard really to follow the rules, but from my experience in the USA no one is willing to compromise on the fact that I'll do it my way and eventually you'll do what i tell you to cause i am the customer.

There is a segment of the population that refuse to follow rules. It's like they are one step out of beat with everyone else. Combine that with a flight attendant who firmly believes "You'll do it the way I tell you to or you'll get nothing" and this is what you get. It becomes a contest of the wills and the drink is no longer a consideration. Who gets their own way is.

Now the bathroom antics, humph. Remember the company CEO who a few years ago urinated and took a dump on a food service cart on a South America to New York flight?

Passenger Jailed: "Abominable" Behaviour In-Flight (by Singapore_Air Dec 18 2003 in Civil Aviation)
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
 
Baexecutive
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 1:15 am

Quoting strangr (Reply 8):

Only in America!!! This guy must have more time on his hands than sense. A few things to consider -

1) Why was he so reluctant to use the process VX have in place to order a drink? Was he intoxicated or on drugs?
2) Why did the crew call the police here, was he verbally abusing them? Threatening behaviour?
3) Where are the other passengers accounts of what has happened?
4) Why did VX offer compensation?

People do need to remember that crew are here primarily to ensure the safety of the aircraft and customers within, not just a flying waiter/waitress who will obey everything a customer asks of them, in an emergency situation, customers need to know thst the crew are in control of the cabin.

Of course if the customer requests a drink and is either unfamiliar or simply requests not to use the automated service then they should have been offered one in the first place. At the end of the day the ordering service is in place for the convenience of the customer ie if it is not convenient to use it then offer an alternative.....simples.
 
SocalApproach
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 2:13 am

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 9):
I think requiring a passenger to order a soda or make any other request electronically is stupid and ludicrous.

However VX does NOT require any guest to use the RED system to order drinks or food. If a guest presses the call button a inflight teammember will assist the guest with whatever he/she needs and that includes ordering. I have seen it first hand where a teammember will just come to that guest seat and then come back with whatever that guest wanted from the back. Everyone has to understand how ludicrous this sounds to say that electronic ordering is a requirement because that doesn't help VX in promoting guest service which is what VX is all about. You would have to think there is a certain crowd VX is missing out on with such a ridiculous requirement meaning elderly folks. There is a scripted line the inflight teamleader reads after passing 10,000 feet that is along the lines of "we will stay out of your way throughout the flight but just press the call button if you needs and WE will be there" There is no policy or line that is said to guest that ordering from the RED system is a requirement. It is simply a convenience and a very good one at that.

Also to note I have seen first hand where a guest wanted to order a premium drink and they were not sure how to go about doing on the RED system and I saw the inflight teammember order it herself from a vacant seat right behind the guest, slide the credit card herself and get the guest her drink. Very simple and I am sure this happens from time to time. Not every guest is 20 years old and has an iphone,ipad i-whatever.... This guy has no case. I don't know much about suing anyone but maybe this guy is trying to get a much bigger settlement. I hope he gets nothing at all now.
 
Mir
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 2:40 am

Even if everything transpired as the passenger described it (which is possible, but I doubt), that still doesn't merit suing the airline. He's outed himself as a Grade-A Idiot.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
sr117
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 3:20 am

Sounds fishy to me, I doubt the crew would have gone through the whole trouble of calling the police on this guy if all he did was refuse to order through the IFE's order system. He probably had to do something really irritating for the crew to act the way they did. Doing anything of the sort adds to the workload of everyone involved so it seems strange that they would have done it for nothing.
 
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Jetsgo
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 4:17 am

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Thread starter):
However, always two sides to a story...

Three sides.

The fact that VX offered $3k and then $5k gives SOME merit to the loser passenger complaints.
Marine Corps Aviation, The Last To Let You Down!
 
sankaps
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 4:30 am

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 2):
After working in the industry I tend to believe the employee over the passenger.

I am sure most passengers would feel differently. Flight attendants with attitudes and on power trips are not uncommon, sadly.

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 7):
Wow. Well I doubt the crew would call the police on him for nothing...

Well, apparently it was for nothing since no charges were filed, safety or security was not at risk, and the airline offered compensation for the incident.

Oh wait -- maybe they called the police because he supposedly did not flush the toilet. Don't we all know that is a crime these days?

Quoting strangr (Reply 8):
The customer was asked to do it as per policy

There is no such policy. Ordering through the IFE system is an OPTION, it is not a requirement.

Quoting NWAROOSTER (Reply 9):
The airline should have offered the passenger an apology in writing and paid him the money it originally offered and guaranteed the passenger NO record of the incident would appear in any police or other record that would name or involve the passenger. In other words, the incident should have been "expunged" at the airlines expense. I think the passenger would have accepted it.. I would have, but most likely never fly on that airline again. Involving the police had to be the stupidest thing that could have be done. The airline employees need to be reeducated in passenger relations. The police have better and more important things to handle than petty stupidity. Safety of flight or the crew was never involved

Exactly! Well said!

[Edited 2013-05-04 21:38:00]
 
Quokkas
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 4:34 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 13):
that still doesn't merit suing the airline.

I guess that even if the airline's version of events is true, the police would be reluctant to press charges on the basis of "he said, she said." Were there independent witnesses to the "profanities"? Can they prove he didn't flush the lavatory and is that a criminal offence?

On the other hand, if what he claims is true, the shameful behaviour of a crew member who was too lazy to serve a drink, followed by lies told about him to the police when the Captain supports the view that he did not pose a risk to the crew, certainly does warrant an apology. According to the report, no apology was offered but an offer of hush money was made.

Then again, the whole story could be made up. We all know how friendly, cheerful and helpful customer service is the airline's first priority. Despite offering money to go away, the airline spokeswoman says, "and after reviewing the facts of this particular case, we believe our team handled the matter appropriately."
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
milemaster
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 5:05 am

Quoting strangr (Reply 8):
Typical American attitude I think

Fascinating. Hundreds of thousands of Americans get on planes all over the world every day. I look forward to reading the thousands of other in-flight incidents that took place that same day as a result of the typical American attitude. Of course I have to sort through the tens of millions of inflight incidents that took place over the past year first to catch up.
 
AY104
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 5:27 am

Not just typical American attitude any more....all over the world now, it seems. Thanks to globalization so many people everywhere act inappopriately.
The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
 
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MillwallSean
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 5:55 am

Isnt this typical opportunistic legals suits. he sees a chance to make some money. Have some lawyer company handle it all for him for 35% of the money he can make etc?

The fact that Virgin offered him compensation (3000 or 5000 which to me is a large amount) tells me he must have some merit to his claim. They wouldnt offer him such an amount unless they know something isnt right here.

Again what I cant understand is how a trained service professional ends up in a situation like this over such a trivial thing?
I mean the FA is trained in service, its her/his main purpose onboard this flight (unless an emergency situation develops then the primary tasks shifts). If the passenger refuses to use the system, just do it for him, smile and explain that its company policy with the system and that if not done that way the company might suspect the FA of being dishonest, smile five more times, excuse yourself for leaning over the passenger when making the order using his system. Ask three questions about his day, his work while doing it. Constantly smile.
Problem solved.
Professional attitude and service isn't that hard and over a situation like this I cant for the life of me understand why it gets so completely out of hand. A professional should never let it reach this level.
if the day has been rough, the passengers hell, then walk away for 1 minute and take 10 deep breaths and return and make the order, make a silly excuse smile and think of the paycheck, the family or whatever. Its just a job.


What always fascinates me is
A. people saying flight attendants are there for security purposes mainly. (I have yet to meet one senior airline manager that agrees with that point. Hint most waitresses at a cruiseship also participate in an evacuation - few of us believe they are mainly on board for safety...)
Security is one important part of the work as an FA. But it sure isn't the main reason airlines hire flight attendants or the main task expected from that profession.
I have come to believe that the indoctrination of security as such an important point for US based flight attendants is the major reason we see so many of these instances happening in the US. The idea that service first, second and third seemed to have been forgotten in all this security talk.

Calling the police for this should result in another lawsuit. the police actually have more important things to do in society than handle arguments between two adults behaving like kids in a playground. Disgraceful use of public resources.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
sankaps
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 6:13 am

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 20):
Security is one important part of the work as an FA. But it sure isn't the main reason airlines hire flight attendants or the main task expected from that profession.

The main tasks of FAs all over the world are Safety AND Service. Both EQUALLY important. But in some parts of the world, especially the US, the Safety part is now too often taken as an excuse to justify poor or no service. The balance has been lost.

Of course there are exceptions, such as the lovely Delta crew I had on JFK-LHR last month. But unfortunately these fantastic FAs are let down by their power-tripping colleagues who given them all a bad name.
 
koruman
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 6:18 am

The passenger's attitude of entitlement is obnoxious, obviously. The airline would be within its rights to refuse to transport him ever again.

However, this lawsuit is not about soda. It's about vengeful cabin crew misusing actions intended for terrorists as a means of getting revenge against an obnoxious passenger. And that is not okay, and insults the memory of the victims of actual terrorism.

The shadow of 9/11 has left US aircrews with the power to settle vendettas with concocted claims of threats or suspicious behaviour.

There need to be checks and balances. And devastating consequences for airline employees crying "Wolf" to settle scores.

Obviously 99.999% of passenger hostility or threats are witnessed by other passengers.

So the US needs a federal "Abuse of Power" law stating that any case of a pilot offloading a passenger on the say-so of cabin crew without witness corroboration from passengers not employed by the airline will lose his pilot's licence forever, without any right of appeal, face a long custodial prison sentence for his own act of air piracy, and pay a seven figure fine. Similar sanctions should apply to the cabin crew involved.

At the moment, it's too easy for a flight attendant who is tired and annoyed by a passenger to settle the argument by invoking anti-terror measures. There is no disincentive.

But if it was going to cost the person their livelihood, their life-savings and a long stretch in jail, they just might conclude that no, this annoying passenger cannot be taught a lesson by being treated as a suspected terrorist.

[Edited 2013-05-04 23:23:03]
 
sankaps
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 6:26 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
The passenger's attitude of entitlement is obnoxious, obviously. The airline would be within its rights to refuse to transport him ever again.

Why? They offered him compensation so there is some acknowledgment they screwed up. Are you suggesting they ban him for daring to file a lawsuit (however opportunistic the lawsuit may seem to us)?

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
However, this lawsuit is not about soda. It's about vengeful cabin crew misusing actions intended for terrorists as a means of getting revenge against an obnoxious passenger. And that is not okay, and insults the memory of the victims of actual terrorism.

Agree 1000%!

Quoting koruman (Reply 22):
the US needs a federal "Abuse of Power" law stating that any case of a pilot offloading a passenger on the say-so of cabin crew without witness corroboration from passengers not employed by the airline will lose his pilot's licence forever, without any right of appeal, face a long custodial prison sentence for his own act of air piracy, and pay a seven figure fine. Similar sanctions should apply to the cabin crew involved.

Very extreme  , but again I agree 1000% with the underlying point you are making.
 
737tdi
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 6:45 am

Quoting strangr (Reply 8):
Typical American attitude I think.

The customer was asked to do it as per policy, but refused and again pressed the call button even after being asked to do it said way.

Its not that hard really to follow the rules, but from my experience in the USA no one is willing to compromise on the fact that I'll do it my way and eventually you'll do what i tell you to cause i am the customer.

$500k lawsuit again typical American attitude, this would be laughed at all the way to the footpath in Australia, but again this keep an over litigated society employed.




Really, you want to attack an entire nation for one idiots indiscretions? You don't know me and I don't know you and we will never meet but that is the most asinine comment I have ever heard. You don't have Idiots in Australia? Visit and you will see exactly what America is like. I am not talking NY or SF, visit the people and places that make this country what it is. I take offense to that comment and hope you get a chance to visit the real America.

I have visited your country several times and find that y''all are full of less then spectacular people yourselves.
 
sankaps
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 6:57 am

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 24):
You don't have Idiots in Australia? Visit and you will see exactly what America is like. I am not talking NY or SF, visit the people and places that make this country what it is. I take offense to that comment and hope you get a chance to visit the real America.
Quoting 737tdi (Reply 24):
I have visited your country several times and find that y''all are full of less then spectacular people yourselves.

Pot. Kettle. Black. Was with you till I read the second quote above.
 
shufflemoomin
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 7:46 am

I actually agree with the passenger here. He's not suing because they didn't bring him a soda, he's suing because he claims they made up lies and had him detained by the police. He must have belief in his actions or he wouldn't take it to court. If he was lying about what he did, I doubt he'd want it under the close scrutiny of a lawsuit. Besides, even if does turn out that he swore at the crew, that's STILL no reason to call the police and have him detained. How over-sensitive can people be? I actually hope he wins, because I'm getting incredibly tired of US cabin crew acting like they're special human beings who are allowed to call the police for every little incident or believing that they have some sort of power over the public.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 8:11 am

well, this story depends on hear-say. But if it is true that a FA pointed at the passenger and then at the screen, motioning him to order his soda that way, this would be extremely bad manner.

Running an airline is still a service industry and passengers are guests who pay the salary of the flight attendants and the pilots. Ordering through a screen is an option, asking the FA politely for a soda is another option. Passengers are not trained monkeys. Actually, such a behaviour by an empöloyee is an insult to the passenger.

I would indeed also express my dis-satisfaction should that happen to me. I would tell that politely of course. if that leads to an interview by half a dozen armed cops at the destnaiton airport, suing the airline would be more than reasonable.

.
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toobz
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 8:53 am

Shuffle..unfortunately in the US people bring frivolous lawsuits to court every day and all day. Even if they don't have a claim, they hope for the company they are suing to settle out of court due to negative publicity and at least get some kind of pay check.
It's a very sad system but it was designed that way.

It's laughable at best to us for foreigners but after living in the states for over 20 years I guess I'm getting used to ridiculousness lol
 
VCy
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 9:05 am

Wow all this mess just for a soda! Sounds like someone needs to get a life... Just let it go! Don't they have real problems to deal with? Seeking 500k because they told him to use the remote to order. They could also have to do this because the company wants to keep track of the stock? I'm just guessing.
 
Quokkas
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 9:12 am

Quoting VCy (Reply 29):
Seeking 500k because they told him to use the remote to order.

He is not suing because he was told to use a remote ordering system. He is suing because they allegedly caused him to be detained by the police and lied to them about him. If the allegations are true, unless you think that defamation is acceptable behaviour from a service provider, that seems a pretty good reason to sue .
“Not to laugh, not to cry, not to hate, but understand.” Spinoza
 
raffik
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 9:25 am

I think it's a stupid policy to force people to use the onboard system to purchase a drink.
What about the elderly, visually impaired or somebody who just does not know how to use the system?
Odd that an airline would make it awkward for a customer to spend their money onboard!

However, I do think security has gone over the top in America. Arranging for police officers to caution the
man upon arrival is a gross misuse of power and resources. Surely the crew onboard are supposed to be
trained in dealing with problematic passengers. It reminds me of a person on here kicked off a flight for
taking a picture in the cabin and then claiming that the guy was rude and abusive to the crew when he wasn't.

I understand that crew should not have to put up with bad behaviour but you get this in all instances where somebody has to work with the general public. Since 9/11 America is understandably on edge but it was 12 years ago, time to ease off and get on with life now.
- Alec
 
HELFAN
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 10:31 am

Quoting milemaster (Reply 18):
What always fascinates me is
A. people saying flight attendants are there for security purposes mainly. (I have yet to meet one senior airline manager that agrees with that point. Hint most waitresses at a cruiseship also participate in an evacuation - few of us believe they are mainly on board for safety...)
Security is one important part of the work as an FA. But it sure isn't the main reason airlines hire flight attendants or the main task expected from that profession.
I have come to believe that the indoctrination of security as such an important point for US based flight attendants is the major reason we see so many of these instances happening in the US. The idea that service first, second and third seemed to have been forgotten in all this security talk.

  

It's not only in the US - unfortunately. Very much the same over here. Once I discussed it with an F/A and according to her this was explicitly told to them in their training. Some members of the crew then seem to take that literally as if they couldn't be combined. Of course safety is of primary importance but it does not need to come at the cost of service. I just think the passengers here in Northern Europe are more quiet and shy to challenge the crew with such an attitude and therefore there are not so many reports of such incidents
 
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jedward
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 11:50 am

Can anyone comment on what the actual VX policy is?

Per the article it would appear the policy is for a FA to take a drink order "one-on-one" if a customer elected not to use the console.

Quote:
"Not long after, Bevivino said he called Virgin Customer Service and asked for their ordering policy on flights. "I was told that if I elect not to use the console, the flight attendant has to provide you with one-on-one service," he said."
As Christ died to make men holy, let men die to make us rich. --S.C.
 
brilondon
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 12:25 pm

I don't even see the basis for the action. Half a million dollars just because you don't get soda? That is nuts.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
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DexSwart
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 12:32 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 34):
I don't even see the basis for the action. Half a million dollars just because you don't get soda? That is nuts.

What is nuts is that this guy is getting his 15 minutes of fame out of it.
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
sankaps
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 12:59 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 34):
I don't even see the basis for the action. Half a million dollars just because you don't get soda? That is nuts.

Okay, so you think VX would have offered him $3,000 in compensation if it was really only about not giving him soda?

Obviously it is about the way he was treated during and after the soda incident -- especially after the flight landed.
 
nightfox365
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 1:04 pm

The guy just wants a quick way to get rich. It is a typical way to get rich, make a phony lawsuit and hope the ruling goes in your favor. I just hope the judge sees sense, and throws it out.
Flown on: bae146, bn2 islander, 741, A320, A321, A333, A332, MD80, 738, AT76, Cessna 150, Piper Cherokee.
 
sankaps
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 1:09 pm

Quoting nightfox365 (Reply 37):
The guy just wants a quick way to get rich. It is a typical way to get rich, make a phony lawsuit and hope the ruling goes in your favor. I just hope the judge sees sense, and throws it out.

So based on what is known, which part of the lawsuit is phony? We may not agree with it or with the amount, but clearly he is not making the incident up.
 
nightfox365
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 1:18 pm

He is asking for 500K after being asked twice to use the seat back screen to order a soda? Which most likely costs only a few dollars? He is also claiming he has depression, you don't get depression from that. People make a lot of things up just to make a quick buck, they want to make things sound worse then they actually were. He has blown what could have easily been made a lot easier if he had just followed the instructions.
Flown on: bae146, bn2 islander, 741, A320, A321, A333, A332, MD80, 738, AT76, Cessna 150, Piper Cherokee.
 
sankaps
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 1:24 pm

Quoting nightfox365 (Reply 39):

You appear to have missed the point completely. Quite obviously the lawsuit is not about the soda. And it is not like he is making the incident up.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 1:35 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 34):
I don't even see the basis for the action. Half a million dollars just because you don't get soda? That is nuts.

Guys, read the article.

It has nothing to do with not getting soda.

The airline called authorities on him over his decision to not use the touch screen to order and insisting on a verbal order.

He is suing for that. Argue the merits over that. READ AN ENTIRE ARTICLE.
 
koruman
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 1:39 pm

A number of posters in this thread seem to have major comprehension deficits.

The lawsuit has nothing to do with the argument about soda.

The lawsuit claims that the crew sought to settle scores at the end of the flight by abusing anti-terror powers to have an obnoxious passenger arrested, humiliated and inconvenienced.

And as I wrote earlier, the sort of anti-terror powers available to bitter or angry flight crews in the USA require checks and balances to prevent this sort of absurd air piracy by angry crews.

If the crews cannot provide independent witnesses from the rest of the passengers on board - not including on-duty or off-duty colleagues - they need to face the severest deterrents possible: loss of their livelihood, lengthy jail sentences and seven figure fines.

If they really did abuse their powers to settle scores, a Singapore-style punishment code might be:

Pilot: 10 years jail for air piracy, $3 million fine, lifelong loss of licence.
Flight attendant: 10 years jail for air piracy, $1 million fine, lifelong ban from aviation industry.

Crews would very, very quickly learn not to abuse the anti-terror powers they have.

And if my penalties sound extreme, they are soft by Singapore standards. Crews abusing anti-terror powers there would probably also be caned, and the death penalty could potentially be sought. Consequently, even though their anti-terror laws are if anything stronger than the USA's, the crews know perfectly well not to abuse them to settle scores.

But rarely a week passes when we hear of a pilot somewhere in the USA invoking anti-terror powers to offload a high-maintenance passenger at the behest of an enraged flight attendant. And there need to be life-changing consequences for that sort of abuse of power. Jail time, unemployment and a seven figure fine. At least.

[Edited 2013-05-05 06:56:10]
 
SCQ83
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 1:40 pm

For me there are two sides in this story.

One, the passenger probably knew beforehand that while VX asks you to order through the screen, they also have the option to do it traditionally, yet they never exercise it. So, the guy just wanted to challenge (and he was right) VX.

Then he became a bit rude (not flushing the toilet and I assume, being "ironic" about it), and the FAs called the police. The captain agrees that he never posed a security issue.

So who has overreacted? For me clearly VX. The passenger could be rude and unpolite, but I am sorry, that is the FA's job to deal with it as far as he doesn't pose a problem to the security in the flight or their own security or integrity. If you are a FA you work in a service-oriented industry and you will have to deal with rude customers. That's it. Are you going to call the police everyone is rude at you? Should hotels or restaurants call the police every time a customer argues about the service, price or anything else? This is over the top. He has a good case, otherwise VX wouldn't have offered him already a few thousand bucks.
 
shufflemoomin
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 1:46 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 42):
And as I wrote earlier, the sort of anti-terror actions available to bitter or angry flight crews in the USA require checks and balances to prevent this sort of absurd air piracy by angry crews.

Exactly. Crew like to bang on about how they're security/safety personal and have a duty of care to the aircraft, but of all these "cops were called on arrival" stories we read, how many of those actually involved issues of safety? Usually it's something minor and the crew's feelings of self-importance that were the only thing damaged. I'd be interested to know how the police feel about being called to crap like this. I mean, did they honestly call the police and say "this guy wanted a soda, he didn't flush the toilet and was rude to us"? Would you turn up if you were told that? I'm not even sure what law is claimed was broken to justify detaining him. Again, I hope he continues with the lawsuit and I hope he wins. It might make US airlines think about stopping this self-important power trip that some of its staff is on.
 
sankaps
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 3:31 pm

Quoting shufflemoomin (Reply 44):
It might make US airlines think about stopping this self-important power trip that some of its staff is on.

I agree completely!
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 5:50 pm

Quoting Jetsgo (Reply 15):
The fact that VX offered $3k and then $5k gives SOME merit to the loser passenger complaints.

Or they just don't wanna deal with paying their own lawyers to fight it

Quoting sankaps (Reply 16):
Well, apparently it was for nothing since no charges were filed, safety or security was not at risk, and the airline offered compensation for the incident.

That doesn't mean he didn't do anything, does it?

Honestly, I agree with the poster that said there are 3 sides. I think the passenger was being a jerk, I think the crew overreacted, and I think this whole lawsuit is silly. I can maybe see him getting a bit of money, probably should've taken the $3000-5000, but $500,000 is absurd and just for the nerve of that I hope he loses (unless there is something egregious we don't know about)

That all being said, we don't have enough facts obviously, so I hope the truth prevails
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 6:37 pm

The OP's link had this guy escorted off the plane by officers. That implies quite a bit more that we're seeing. I want to hear the other side. Either way, being rude is not worth a half million. It might be a FA's job to deal with the rude, but there are lines not to be crossed. He was given a little lesson to be more polite and for

Quoting FlyKev (Reply 3):
he original $3000 and even the $5000 VX offered this passenger seemed much more reasonable.

VX was obviously trying to cut costs avoiding a legal spat. Now its real oney Time to sue the idiot back for legal fees.


Heck, if VX delays this long enough, there won't be any money for him to take.  

Lightsaber
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sankaps
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 47):
The OP's link had this guy escorted off the plane by officers. That implies quite a bit more that we're seeing.

No, it says officers were waiting in the jetway.

And it implies nothing, since we have repeatedly seen FAs call the police for no reason since 9/11, using "safety" as an excuse to abuse their power against pax who may have genuine service grievances (or indeed, may just be sitting minding their own business, but appearing suspicious to others because of their ethnicity, dress, what have you).

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 47):
VX was obviously trying to cut costs avoiding a legal spat.

Well, offering real cash (instead of miles or a service recovery voucher) suggests they realized this guy may have actually had grounds to file a case against them, and they were trying to buy him out of doing that,
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: Man Sues VX Over Soda

Sun May 05, 2013 7:45 pm

Quoting sankaps (Reply 48):
Well, offering real cash (instead of miles or a service recovery voucher) suggests they realized this guy may have actually had grounds to file a case against them, and they were trying to buy him out of doing that,

Wouldn't be the first time an airline has thrown real money at a frivolous claim. Again, it might not be frivolous, but no one can say there is any merit to this just based on the info we've seen
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)