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enilria
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OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 5:21 pm

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

NOTE: It appears that something changed recently and now we are seeing flights that are not available for sale such as scheduled charters. It does not appear there is any way to detect them as of now. They will now appear when they change.

7H ANC-ENA JUN 12>15 JUL 13>16 AUG 13>15 SEP 12>13 OCT 12>13 NOV 12>13 DEC 12>13 JAN 12>13
7H ANC-HOM JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6

8E DIO-OME JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0

AA DFW-MAD NOV 0.7>0.9 DEC 0.7>0.8
AA ORD-BOS JUN 11>10 JUL 11>10 AUG 11>10

AM JFK-MEX SEP 3>4 OCT 5>4
AM LAX-BJX JUL 0.5>0 AUG 0.6>0.2
AM LAX-GDL JUL 1.0>1.3 AUG 1.0>1.3 SEP 1.0>1.1
AM ONT-GDL JUL 0.5>0.7
AM ORD-GDL JUL 0.6>1.0 AUG 0.5>0.8
*AM ORD-MTY JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.4 SEP 0>0.1
AM SAT-MEX JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2 SEP 3>2 OCT 3>2 NOV 3>2 DEC 3>2 JAN 3>2
AM SAT-MTY JUL 0.8>1.0 AUG 0.9>1.0
AM SMF-GDL JUL 0.5>1.0 AUG 0.6>0.8

*AS PDX-ATL SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0
*AS PDX-DFW OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0

AZ BOS-FCO JAN 0.7>0.3
AZ JFK-FCO NOV 1.9>2 DEC 1.8>2 JAN 1.9>2
AZ JFK-MXP NOV 1.0>0.9 DEC 1.0>0.9 JAN 1.0>0.8
*AZ MIA-MXP NOV 0.4>0 DEC 0.4>0 JAN 0.5>0

*B6 BDL-RSW NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*B6 BDL-TPA NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

DL ATL-BZE OCT 1.1>1.0
DL ATL-CRW JAN 5>4
DL ATL-SEA OCT 6>5
DL DTW-BOS SEP 7>6 OCT 7>6 NOV 7>6 DEC 7>6 JAN 6>5
DL DTW-TVC JUN 5>6
*DL FLL-TLH SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.9>0 JAN 0.7>0
DL JFK-CLE JAN 2>1.2
DL JFK-CLT JAN 2>1.2
DL JFK-CMH JAN 1.8>1.0
*DL JFK-PRG OCT 1.0>0.3 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0
DL MSP-TYS AUG 0.6>0.4

EI BOS-DUB OCT 1.8>2.0 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>1.9 JAN 1.0>2

FL published a schedule extension, but WN was not published at the same time. This is an FL to FL YOY comparison only.
FL ATL-AUA OCT 0.7>0.5 NOV 1.0>0.6 DEC 1.0>0.6
FL ATL-AUS DEC 0>0.7
FL ATL-BDL NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3
FL ATL-BOS OCT 6>5
FL ATL-BUF NOV 3>0.1 DEC 2>0
FL ATL-DEN OCT 4>3
FL ATL-DTW OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3
FL ATL-FLL OCT 8>7 NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7
FL ATL-ICT OCT 3>0 NOV 3>0 DEC 3>0
FL ATL-JAX NOV 4>3
FL ATL-LAS OCT 4>3 NOV 3>1.8 DEC 3>1.8
FL ATL-LAX NOV 3>1.1 DEC 3>1.0
FL ATL-LGA OCT 9>6 NOV 8>5 DEC 8>5
FL ATL-MDW NOV 6>4 DEC 6>5
FL ATL-MEM NOV 4>0.2 DEC 4>0
FL ATL-OKC NOV 0>1.9 DEC 0>2
FL ATL-ORF NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3
FL ATL-PHL OCT 6>4
FL ATL-PIT NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3
FL ATL-PNS NOV 3>0.2 DEC 3>0
FL ATL-PUJ OCT 1.5>1.4
FL ATL-RIC OCT 4>3
FL ATL-SAT OCT 3>4
FL ATL-SDF NOV 0>1.9 DEC 0>2
FL ATL-SFO NOV 1.8>1.0 DEC 1.8>1.0
FL ATL-SJU NOV 1.0>0.1 DEC 1.0>0
FL ATL-TPA OCT 8>7
FL BOS-RSW NOV 0>0.9 DEC 0>1.0
FL BUF-TPA NOV 0.9>0 DEC 1.0>0
FL BWI-ATL OCT 7>5 NOV 6>4 DEC 5>4
FL BWI-AUA OCT 0.3>0.6 NOV 0.3>0.7 DEC 0.4>0.7
FL BWI-BDA OCT 1.0>0
FL BWI-BOS OCT 5>4 NOV 5>4 DEC 5>1.5
FL BWI-CUN DEC 1.9>1.7
FL BWI-FLL OCT 6>7 DEC 6>4
FL BWI-GRR OCT 3>0 NOV 2>0 DEC 2>0
FL BWI-LAS OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
FL BWI-MCI NOV 0>1.1 DEC 0>1.2
FL BWI-MEM OCT 0>1.0
FL BWI-NAS OCT 1.0>0.7
FL BWI-PUJ OCT 0>0.7 NOV 0>0.8 DEC 0>0.7
FL BWI-RSW OCT 1.0>1.9
FL BWI-SJU OCT 1.7>0 NOV 1.7>0 DEC 1.7>0
FL BWI-TPA OCT 2>5 DEC 4>3
FL DAY-TPA NOV 0.9>0 DEC 1.0>0
FL DEN-CUN NOV 0.3>0.4
FL DEN-SJD OCT 0>0.3 NOV 0>0.5 DEC 0>0.6
FL FLL-JAX NOV 0>1.9 DEC 0>2
FL FLL-MDW OCT 0>0.9
FL FLL-PHL OCT 0>0.7 NOV 0.9>0.2 DEC 1.0>0.2
FL FLL-PIT OCT 1.7>1.0 NOV 1.3>0.1 DEC 1.3>0
FL FLL-SJU OCT 1.7>0 NOV 1.7>0 DEC 1.9>0
FL HOU-IND NOV 0>1.9 DEC 0>2
FL HOU-MCI NOV 0>1.9 DEC 0>2
FL IND-TPA OCT 2>1.1 NOV 3>1.2 DEC 3>0.8
FL JAX-ORF NOV 0>0.9 DEC 0>1.0
FL MCI-MSY NOV 0>0.9 DEC 0>1.0
FL MCO-ATL OCT 10>8 NOV 9>7 DEC 9>6
FL MCO-BOS NOV 1.2>0 DEC 1.0>0
FL MCO-BUF NOV 3>0.1 DEC 3>0
FL MCO-BWI NOV 6>4 DEC 6>3
FL MCO-CMH NOV 1.0>0.1 DEC 1.0>0
FL MCO-DAY NOV 1.0>0.1 DEC 1.0>0
FL MCO-DTW NOV 1.8>0.9 DEC 2>1.0
FL MCO-GRR OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.3>0 DEC 1.0>0
FL MCO-HOU OCT 0>1.0
FL MCO-IND NOV 4>3 DEC 4>1.0
FL MCO-MBJ OCT 0.7>0.5
FL MCO-MDW NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3
FL MCO-MEM OCT 0>1.0
FL MCO-MSY OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
FL MCO-PHL NOV 4>3 DEC 4>1.3
FL MCO-PIT OCT 3>2 NOV 3>1.7 DEC 3>1.0
FL MCO-RDU OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>1.4
FL MCO-RIC NOV 1.0>0.1 DEC 1.0>0
FL MCO-STL OCT 0>1.9
FL MDW-MBJ OCT 0>0.4 NOV 0>0.6 DEC 0>0.7
FL MDW-MEM OCT 0>2
FL MDW-OKC NOV 0>1.8 DEC 0>1.9
FL MDW-PUJ OCT 0>0.4 NOV 0>0.6 DEC 0>0.6
FL MDW-RSW NOV 3>0.1 DEC 3>0
FL MKE-BOS OCT 5>0
FL MKE-FLL OCT 1.0>0
FL MKE-MCO NOV 3>1.2 DEC 3>1.2
FL MKE-MSY NOV 0>0.9 DEC 0>1.0
FL MKE-RSW NOV 3>0.1 DEC 3>0
FL MKE-TPA OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0
FL PIT-RSW NOV 1.3>0.2 DEC 1.1>0.2
FL RDU-TPA OCT 0>0.9
FL SAT-CUN DEC 0.6>0.4
FL SFO-SNA NOV 1.0>0.1 DEC 1.0>0

LW HNL-MKK JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0
LW KOA-OGG JUN 5>3 JUL 5>0 AUG 5>0 SEP 5>0 OCT 5>0 NOV 5>0 DEC 5>0 JAN 5>0
LW MKK-OGG JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>0 AUG 2>0 SEP 2>0 OCT 2>0 NOV 2>0 DEC 2>0 JAN 2>0
LW MUE-OGG JUL 1.7>0.8 AUG 1.7>0 SEP 1.7>0 OCT 1.7>0 NOV 1.7>0 DEC 1.7>0 JAN 1.7>0

MY TIK-PLJ JUN 0>2 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0

OR MIA-AMS NOV 0>0.1 DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.1

SY BOS-MSP SEP 0.1>1.3 OCT 0>1.3 NOV 0>1.1 DEC 0>1.1
SY JFK-MSP SEP 0.2>1.5 OCT 0>1.4 NOV 0>1.4 DEC 0>1.5
SY LAX-MSP SEP 0.2>1.5 OCT 0>1.4 NOV 0>1.4 DEC 0>1.4
SY MSP-SEA SEP 0.6>1.6 OCT 0>1.3 NOV 0>1.3 DEC 0>1.1
SY MSP-SFO SEP 0.1>1.7 OCT 0>1.7 NOV 0>1.6 DEC 0>1.5

UA DEN-COS JUN 11>10
UA DEN-GRR OCT 1.0>2
UA DEN-RAP JUN 7>6
UA EWR-BUF JUN 6>5
*UA IAD-FLL SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0.5
UA IAH-DEN JUN 11>12
*UA IAH-PSP NOV 0>0.9 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0
*UA JAX-MHH JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2
UA LAX-IAH JUN 14>16 JUL 14>16
UA ORD-IAH JUN 14>17 JUL 14>16

US CLT-CAK AUG 6>7
US CLT-ORF AUG 8>10
US CLT-SRQ AUG 2>4
US DCA-HHH AUG 0.2>0.1
US DCA-PBI AUG 4>2
US DCA-PIT AUG 5>6
US DCA-RSW AUG 0.2>1.0
US DCA-YHZ JUL 0.3>0.1 AUG 0.2>0.1
US PHL-MCO AUG 7>8
US PHL-PVD AUG 7>8
US PHL-ROC AUG 7>6
US PHX-LAS AUG 8>7
US PHX-PVR AUG 1.0>1.8
US PHX-SAN AUG 8>7
US PHX-SNA AUG 7>6

VX did a schedule extension, here is a YOY compare
VX AUS-SFO NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0
VX BOS-LAX NOV 3>1.5 DEC 3>1.5
VX BOS-SFO NOV 3>1.9
VX EWR-LAX NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3
VX EWR-SFO NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3
VX FLL-LAX NOV 3>1.8 DEC 3>1.8 JAN 3>1.8
VX FLL-SFO JAN 1.8>1.2
VX IAD-SFO NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3
VX JFK-LAX NOV 6>5 DEC 6>5
VX JFK-SFO NOV 5>4 DEC 5>4
VX LAS-LAX NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>4
VX LAS-SFO NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7
VX LAX-CUN JAN 0.6>0.7
VX LAX-ORD NOV 3>2.0 DEC 3>1.9
VX LAX-PHL NOV 3>1.9 DEC 3>1.9
VX LAX-SJC NOV 0>4 DEC 0>4 JAN 0>4
VX MCO-SFO NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.3>0 JAN 1.1>0
VX ORD-SFO DEC 2>3
VX PHL-SFO NOV 2.0>1.0 DEC 1.9>1.0 JAN 1.9>1.0
VX PSP-SFO NOV 1.1>0.3 DEC 1.0>0.7
VX SFO-CUN NOV 0.3>0.2 DEC 0.5>0.1
VX SFO-PVR NOV 0.6>0.3 DEC 0.6>0.3
VX SFO-SJD DEC 1.4>0.8 JAN 0.9>0.8

WG CVG-CUN JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.1 SEP 0>0.2
WG CVG-MBJ JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.1 SEP 0>0.2
WG CVG-PUJ JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>0.1
 
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STT757
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 6:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA IAH-PSP NOV 0>0.9 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0

Nice to see this brought back.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA IAD-FLL SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0.5

These within perimeter routes for IAD are getting more difficult.
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MaverickM11
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 6:22 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):

These within perimeter routes for IAD are getting more difficult.

   And when DCA goes to oneworld, IAD is going to be even more of a ghost town.
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deltal1011man
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 6:36 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL FLL-TLH SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.9>0 JAN 0.7>0

IIRC this was a route that was basically supported by a contract Delta had. Mt guess is the contract is gone or its still unprofitable without the contract.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL JFK-PRG OCT 1.0>0.3 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0

seasonal cut.
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 7:13 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA IAH-PSP NOV 0>0.9 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0

Nice to see this brought back.

But will this be mainline or on regional.
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FoxBravo
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 7:36 pm

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 4):

But will this be mainline or on regional.

Appears to be Skywest CRJ700. Wasn't it an ERJ145XR last time?
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SurfandSnow
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 7:45 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AS PDX-ATL SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0
*AS PDX-DFW OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0

Very exciting and unexpected (IMO) additions to the PDX hub. I see all kinds of interesting opportunities for AS at PDX:

- AUS
- EWR
- FLL
- JNU (seasonal)
- MSP
- SJD (seasonal)
- SLC (QX)
- TUS (seasonal, and even then probably have OO do it)
- YYC (QX)

Not sure if resuming MCO would be worthwhile - the yields just don't justify the longer flights from MCO, as we are seeing with VX dropping SFO-MCO nonstops. Obviously no reason to jump back on the highly competitive PDX-DEN route. I think PDX-RNO (QX) would happen if WN drops PDX-RNO, which could very well happen.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AZ MIA-MXP NOV 0.4>0 DEC 0.4>0 JAN 0.5>0

Perfect opportunity for AA to start flying the route.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*B6 BDL-RSW NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*B6 BDL-TPA NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

In another thread regarding B6 at FLL, the airline said that almost all new service touches one of the six hub/focus city markets (JFK/NYC, BOS, FLL, MCO, LGB/LA, SJU). I realize that TPA and RSW do host a fair amount of B6 p2p flying, but I still think this is testament to the BDL market and B6's loyal New England customer base. AA has picked up the BDL-LAX route, whilst WN has now completely dropped BDL-LAS. I have to wonder if B6 might be looking at offering BDL-LAS?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL FLL-TLH SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.9>0 JAN 0.7>0

A quick check of wikipedia shows that this was the last p2p route from FLL on DL. Looks like all service to Florida's Gold Coast (FLL, MIA, PBI) on DL will now be limited to their hubs, or very strong international gateway focus cities (BOS and LAX). Everyone keeps saying that DL is eager to have a South Florida hub, but all of their recent expansion efforts from FLL (MEX, SDQ anyone?) and MIA (LHR sure didn't last long, and the intrastate stuff fared even worse!) have been futile. Like UA, I'm going to guess that DL has - finally - decided that there are greener pastures elsewhere...

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL JFK-PRG OCT 1.0>0.3 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0

I thought PRG already was a summer seasonal station. Aside from JFK-SVO (serving the massive Moscow market O&D and major SU hub), DL has reduced to seasonal or cut altogether service to everything behind the old Iron Curtain.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA IAD-FLL SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0.5

UA struggling with service to anything south of MCO/TPA? This is surprising to you?   

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA IAH-PSP NOV 0>0.9 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0

This also isn't surprising. AA has been doing brisk business - year round, with mainline MD-80s - on the DFW-PSP route for years.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
VX AUS-SFO NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0

At least they were conservative, by only starting service to AUS from their SFO hub and only at 1x daily. Still, as much as Austin fits their bill of being trendy, popular, and cool, I think they would have been better off going for a less sexy, less competitive mid-con market like Houston or MSP. AUS is a relatively small market with very heavy competition from California (AA, B6, UA, and WN), while the likes of Houston and MSP are much more populous yet less competitive.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
VX EWR-LAX NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3
VX EWR-SFO NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3

I still can't believe they were able to get these slots. I thought they missed their one and only chance with the UA/CO merger, I'm glad to see they triumphed and made this oft-stated goal become reality. Since they haven't been able to get more JFK slots, this is a great way for them to grow in the New York City area market and of course offer their customers a choice between JFK and EWR airports. I think when UA rationalizes capacity these routes could become very valuable to the airline.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
VX LAS-LAX NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>4
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
VX LAX-SJC NOV 0>4 DEC 0>4 JAN 0>4

Anyone know how these competitive short haul services are doing? Hopefully better than SFO-SNA. If these do well, I wonder if we could see additional short haul stuff, like LAX-OAK (give those in the East Bay a convenient local option like those in the South Bay got with LAX-SJC) and perhaps even LAX-SMF or SFO-BUR. Although WN would probably suddenly start its own retaliatory SFO-BUR service just like it did on SFO-SNA, WN seems to be much weaker at BUR than SNA (apparently even nonstops to their burgeoning DEN hub are a challenge from BUR) and I could see VX winning a lot of local San Fernando Valley and Hollywood area fans like B6 did that hate trekking down to LAX - even if it means connecting. Further afield, if they can make this type of competitive short haul stuff work, there is no reason they shouldn't add PHX and dare I say it DEN.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
VX MCO-SFO NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.3>0 JAN 1.1>0

I will credit the SFO-SNA victory to WN and the SFO/LAX-YYZ victory to AC. This is the first time that UA has truly triumphed over VX.

That said, I think VX is growing less and less concerned about linking every new market to SFO and LAX, and more concerned about O&D and competitive dynamics. AUS is a great example - start from SFO, which probably has a higher propensity for O&D and lacks direct competition from AA and WN, arguably the two biggest players in the AUS market. Over time, as VX gets established in the AUS market (or when enough LAX FFers request a nonstop service, as I believe was the case for LAX-LAS), they can then add nonstop LAX service. This way they aren't getting killed eating massive losses at the onset, but gradually building up as they gain a viable, profitable following. I see this all the time with B6, and its nice to see both VX and WN starting to follow suit!
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STT757
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 7:50 pm

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
I still can't believe they were able to get these slots.

They got the slots and gate from AA who was leasing the slots to Porter and UA.
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ANA787
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 8:11 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-SEA OCT 6>5

AS and WN are also slashing frequency on SEA-ATL.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AS PDX-ATL SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0

PDX gains one of SEA's ATL flights.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 8:18 pm

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
Very exciting and unexpected (IMO) additions to the PDX hub. I see all kinds of interesting opportunities for AS at PDX:

- AUS
- EWR
- FLL
- JNU (seasonal)
- MSP
- SJD (seasonal)
- SLC (QX)
- TUS (seasonal, and even then probably have OO do it)
- YYC (QX)

That's a very good list. Not sure that PDX-AUS has enough traffic demand though. I liked it when they did PDX-SJC-AUS. I think PDX-TUS was done for a short time and was always almost empty. With AS starting PDX-FAI perhaps PDX-JNU would be in the cards during Summer. Seems like AS is open to trying some additional non-ANC Alaska routes from PDX in the Summer.

I'd add PDX-YLW and PDX-YYJ to the list also.

Don't forget PVR. AS did PDX-SJD and PDX-PVR for a very short time a few years ago.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 8:23 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):

These within perimeter routes for IAD are getting more difficult.

   And when DCA goes to oneworld, IAD is going to be even more of a ghost town.

If true, what is the effect on IAD vs. EWR?

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 3):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL JFK-PRG OCT 1.0>0.3 NOV 1.0>0 DEC 1.0>0 JAN 1.0>0

seasonal cut.
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
I thought PRG already was a summer seasonal station.

Well, yes it is almost certainly a seasonal cut, but they were selling it for Winter and they didn't even go from 7/week to 3/week in one phase and then to 0 in another phase...they just killed it. They were taking bookings on this, so the cut was not "planned". They were *hoping* it would stick, but it didn't.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
Very exciting and unexpected (IMO) additions to the PDX hub.

I agree. I think this signals a major change. In the old days the QX planners were very pro-PDX and the AS people were very pro-SEA. When they combined the teams, the survivors were weighted toward the SEA contingent and SEA saw the benefits of that. It appears that now things are shifting again.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
Perfect opportunity for AA to start flying the route.

Maybe, but MXP is much more Europe point-of-sale than FCO traditionally and the Italian economy is pretty bad. I'm not sure anybody is making much money on MXP. It's not easy to make money in FCO either, but the issue at FCO is really price being high enough to make money. There is plenty of demand. MXP has both a demand and price problem.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
but I still think this is testament to the BDL market and B6's loyal New England customer base.

I think it is a testament to B6 seeing a shift of capacity away from ATL/CLT as a hub connect point to Florida in the next 24 months and B6 seeing an opening. OTOH, we did see WN slip in BDL-ATL. I'm wondering if that was a last-minute response to B6 in BDL-Florida.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
UA struggling with service to anything south of MCO/TPA? This is surprising to you?

Well, frankly anybody should be able to justify FLL from their hub. It's a huge market, it's got cruise traffic, it's got great weather most of the year...I find it frankly embarrassing that UA can't make it work except off and on. I'm wondering if it will really return for Winter. For all the talk about the population in WAS shifting toward Reston over the last 20 years, it seems that people are more willing to drive in to DCA to go to Florida than drive out. I also wonder if it is really any cheaper to operate at IAD than DCA? If you have to buy the slots I know the answer, but if you get them handed to you by DOT it even be cheaper for an LCC to operate at DCA...maybe...
 
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STT757
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 9:11 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 10):
If true, what is the effect on IAD vs. EWR?

It's probably going to have the opposite effect of what people were expecting when the merger was announced. People think that because IAD is not slot restricted and there's room to grow that's where the connecting hub should be and EWR would be O&D. The problem is IAD is wide open for a reason, it's not DC travelers preferable airport for travel. It does well where DCA doesn't compete, West Coast and International, but it suffers greatly on routes inside the perimeter. In many ways what hamstrings IAD also hamstrings JFK, which is why no one has ever developed a large hub to compete with EWR.

I think IAD will focus on the lucrative DC markets it dominates, and EWR will continue to be the main hub in the Northeast for UA. That means connections will continue to flow through EWR. UA cannot sustain a single daily flight to FLL with no competition, meanwhile they have 7 daily EWR-FLL flights with B6 offering their own 3 daily EWR-FLL.
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yellowtail
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Tue May 07, 2013 9:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-BZE OCT 1.1>1.0

The extra .1 for Oct was just loaded last week so must have been a filing error. Someone got eager on Belize!
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 12:54 am

Confused here. Is AirTran starting service to BDL with 3 flights to ATL? Or will that be turned over to Southwest? I thought AirTran was being slowly integrated into Southwest. AirTran has not flown into BDL in years.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 1:07 am

Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 13):
Confused here. Is AirTran starting service to BDL with 3 flights to ATL? Or will that be turned over to Southwest? I thought AirTran was being slowly integrated into Southwest. AirTran has not flown into BDL in years.

These will be FL runs. WN is allocating FL to various routes that a) FL has done before, b) on currently WN only (MKE-MSY ), and c) using their 717s on routes I guess WN feels a 737 is too much IMO.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
 
deltal1011man
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 1:21 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 10):

Well, yes it is almost certainly a seasonal cut, but they were selling it for Winter and they didn't even go from 7/week to 3/week in one phase and then to 0 in another phase...they just killed it. They were taking bookings on this, so the cut was not "planned". They were *hoping* it would stick, but it didn't.

Yeah basically.

Next week should be interesting.  
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
Pbb152
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 1:44 am

STT757 I am counting down to how long It takes N62NA to come here and say how much EWR sucks and isn't a New York airport based on your comments. It is as reliable as the sunrise, taxes, and the Kardashians polluting the airwaves.
 
PHX787
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 1:52 am

Regarding WG flights: apple vacations or some vacation group is beginning to expand at CVG.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
deltal1011man
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 1:52 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
I think IAD will focus on the lucrative DC markets it dominates, and EWR will continue to be the main hub in the Northeast for UA. That means connections will continue to flow through EWR. UA cannot sustain a single daily flight to FLL with no competition, meanwhile they have 7 daily EWR-FLL flights with B6 offering their own 3 daily EWR-FLL.

Blah. I think only foolish people expected such. UA has a nice chunk of slots on 50 seaters that will likely be shifted to large RJs (or a mainline small jet if it comes). This should allow UA to grow even more.

IAD will focus on the US government basically.

Quoting Pbb152 (Reply 16):
EWR sucks and isn't a New York airport based on your comments.

well its not in NYC       
Quoting Pbb152 (Reply 16):
and the Kardashians polluting the airwaves.

HA! nice.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
commavia
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 1:57 am

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
These within perimeter routes for IAD are getting more difficult.
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
And when DCA goes to oneworld, IAD is going to be even more of a ghost town.

I guess. I realize it's a leisure-skewed market, and that fall is way off-peak, but it's still remarkable to me that UA cannot manage more than RJs year-round from IAD, one of their hubs, to South Florida, one of the top-ten largest population centers in the country.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
Perfect opportunity for AA to start flying the route.

  

MIA-MXP would be a perfect route for an AA 763.

Quoting enilria (Reply 10):
Maybe, but MXP is much more Europe point-of-sale than FCO traditionally and the Italian economy is pretty bad. I'm not sure anybody is making much money on MXP.

The local market is there, and there are business and premium leisure connections. AA seems to do relatively well on JFK-MXP. I suspect MIA-MXP would do well to if AA were willing to commit the resources to it.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
It's probably going to have the opposite effect of what people were expecting when the merger was announced. People think that because IAD is not slot restricted and there's room to grow that's where the connecting hub should be and EWR would be O&D. The problem is IAD is wide open for a reason, it's not DC travelers preferable airport for travel. It does well where DCA doesn't compete, West Coast and International, but it suffers greatly on routes inside the perimeter. In many ways what hamstrings IAD also hamstrings JFK, which is why no one has ever developed a large hub to compete with EWR.

  

EWR is the singular megahub of its capability in the northeast. No other hub can match it in two critical areas: (1) large local market, both domestic and international, and (2) huge capacity to handle global, omni-directional, throughout-the-day connections. PHL is the only other viable hub competitor that come sclose, as it does cater to a large local market and can support diverse connections, but PHL is still no equal to EWR. Beyond PHL, nothing else comes close. LGA and DCA are obviously slot- and perimeter-constrained, and JFK and IAD are likewise hamstrung by the presence of LGA and DCA.

[Edited 2013-05-07 19:01:26]
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 2:06 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 10):
For all the talk about the population in WAS shifting toward Reston over the last 20 years, it seems that people are more willing to drive in to DCA to go to Florida than drive out.

The population hasn't really shifted all that significantly though. DC is a metro area of 5.5 million people, but only about 1 million of those people would consider IAD to be there closest or preferred hub.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
That means connections will continue to flow through EWR.

But assuming NYC's local O+D market grows in the future, there will be less and less room for that connecting traffic since UA can't appreciably grow in EWR and they'd rather have O+D than connecting. They can upgauge some, but given UA's fleet plan there will not be much of that. Plus, it's questionable if EWR's terminal facilities can really handle significant passenger growth.

IAD will remain weak, though I suspect an eventual shutdown of CLE will benefit IAD the most.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 2:06 am

Quoting CairnterriAIR (Reply 13):
Confused here. Is AirTran starting service to BDL with 3 flights to ATL? Or will that be turned over to Southwest? I thought AirTran was being slowly integrated into Southwest. AirTran has not flown into BDL in years.

All the details are in the WN schedule thread: WN/FL May 6 Schedule Release Predictions? (by wnflyguy Apr 25 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Much easier to understand what is going on by reading that.
 
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AVENSAB727
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 2:06 am

Well, I think EWR is in a better position than IAD. But I wonder if IAD will either draw down or stay stable in the years to come. EWR is a megahub and a connecting point like IAH and ORD. But I thought IAD was UA's Middle East,African, and Europe gateway.
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flyguy89
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 2:32 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 17):

Regarding WG flights: apple vacations or some vacation group is beginning to expand at CVG.

Eh, not really expanding, those flights have been operating for a while since they were passed down from USA 3000, always good to see that the services seem to be doing well enough though.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 5:49 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 18):
Quoting Pbb152 (Reply 16):EWR sucks and isn't a New York airport based on your comments.
well its not in NYC

Even if it was on Neptune, AA or DL would sell their souls to exchange their jerry rigged Queens operations for one NYC area combined hub
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
FlyHossD
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 6:26 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
WHAT IS THIS REPORT?

I, and I believe many others on this board, sincerely appreciate your schedule update threads. Thank you, Enilria.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
ANA787
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 7:17 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
Very exciting and unexpected (IMO) additions to the PDX hub. I see all kinds of interesting opportunities for AS at PDX:

- AUS
- EWR
- FLL
- JNU (seasonal)
- MSP
- SJD (seasonal)
- SLC (QX)
- TUS (seasonal, and even then probably have OO do it)
- YYC (QX)

Not sure if resuming MCO would be worthwhile - the yields just don't justify the longer flights from MCO, as we are seeing with VX dropping SFO-MCO nonstops. Obviously no reason to jump back on the highly competitive PDX-DEN route. I think PDX-RNO (QX) would happen if WN drops PDX-RNO, which could very well happen.

I'd add YEG, RNO, MCO and MRY to that list. As well as DEN. DEN is PDX's largest domestic market...Suprised AS hasn't gone back in and gained part of the market share with PDX being an AS hub.

I'd also like to see AS reopen RDD/ACV from PDX.

AUS is already served nonstop from PDX via WN so I don't see that being added.

What will be next from PDX?
 
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 8:18 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 10):
Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
Very exciting and unexpected (IMO) additions to the PDX hub.

I agree. I think this signals a major change. In the old days the QX planners were very pro-PDX and the AS people were very pro-SEA. When they combined the teams, the survivors were weighted toward the SEA contingent and SEA saw the benefits of that. It appears that now things are shifting again



I think the plain and simple truth is, AS needs more and more O/D seats in the SEA market, and they are recognizing that by connecting people via their more lightly congested second hub city of PDX, that it would loosen up some seats on their Seattle flights and offer their customers a more compact facility to easily breeze through.

This is also the reason we have seen AS nesting with their partners DL, and to a lesser extent AA. It is no mistake that the cities they just announced service from PDX to, are the major hubs for both their domestic partners. I am sure this is just the start of things to come, we'll see an even larger arrangement with both AA & DL that also may include interline connections via PDX.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 6):
Very exciting and unexpected (IMO) additions to the PDX hub. I see all kinds of interesting opportunities for AS at PDX:

- AUS
- EWR
- FLL
- JNU (seasonal)
- MSP
- SJD (seasonal)
- SLC (QX)
- TUS (seasonal, and even then probably have OO do it)
- YYC (QX)



Based on what I theorized above, I would think that MSP and SLC via QX, would be the next options. Although I have long expected that PDX would eventually get it's own EWR flight. I also think that DTW may be on the AS radar.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 9:15 am

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 8):

When is AS reducing SEA-ATL cuz I don't see it in the OAG as of yet.
 
skymiler
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 11:45 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 3):
*DL FLL-TLH SEP 0.8>0 OCT 0.9>0 NOV 0.9>0 JAN 0.7>0

IIRC this was a route that was basically supported by a contract Delta had. Mt guess is the contract is gone or its still unprofitable without the contract.

this has been on/off many times.

Many years ago Piedmont had a fabulous intra-state system with F28's (IIRC). DL a few years ago had some very useful flights, including TLH - MIA that were popular with lawyers and political figures at quite stiff prices that they paid anyway! They also had a late night MCO - TLH that was a great "escape" route if things went bad in ATL with delays.

Since FLL - TLH is a feed from both MIA and FLL we will see what happens early nexy year when the legislative session starts and DL gets a few calls from the politicos who want a 1 day turn to TLH!
I love to fly, and it shows!
 
ckfred
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 3:56 pm

US cutting back DCA-YHZ is sort of interesting, unless it plans to focus traffic to YHZ via PHL. Besides the fact that YHZ is the main connecting point for the Canadian Maritimes, as well as the main business city east of Montreal, fall in Nova Scotia is a pretty as in New England.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 3:56 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
People think that because IAD is not slot restricted and there's room to grow that's where the connecting hub should be

The availability of space is rarely an indication of economic opportunity! You can build it, but they may or may not come.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 11):
and EWR would be O&D.

Well, certainly EWR has better O&D and if EWR were completely saturated with just the O&D, IAD works as an overflow, but it would seem that EWR is the better hub because of the O&D. Here's an interesting tidbit, however. The Wall Street coverage says that EWR is actually less profitable than IAD. Want to know why? Because EWR has tons of Florida that is low or no margin and IAD has very little. That also provides some background on why IAD-FLL doesn't work. It appears that EWR-FLL doesn't work either, but they are making it a loss-leader in EWR. I guess I'd ask why Florida is that unprofitable for them? Are their costs really so far out of control?

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 12):
The extra .1 for Oct was just loaded last week so must have been a filing error. Someone got eager on Belize!

I knew you would notice. I only include such tiny changes in int'l routes where freq is often low.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 15):

Yeah basically.

Next week should be interesting.

You are implying the Fall schedule will be loaded? Yeah, I suspect. They implied some pruning on the quarterly call.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 20):

The population hasn't really shifted all that significantly though. DC is a metro area of 5.5 million people, but only about 1 million of those people would consider IAD to be there closest or preferred hub.

Could be. I'd assume suburban building stopped with the housing crash, but it's pretty common for business routes to succeed at the downtown airport and for leisure flights to at least be fairly successful at suburban airports.

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 25):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
WHAT IS THIS REPORT?

I, and I believe many others on this board, sincerely appreciate your schedule update threads. Thank you, Enilria.

Always great to hear. Thanks...

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 27):
This is also the reason we have seen AS nesting with their partners DL, and to a lesser extent AA. It is no mistake that the cities they just announced service from PDX to, are the major hubs for both their domestic partners. I am sure this is just the start of things to come, we'll see an even larger arrangement with both AA & DL that also may include interline connections via PDX.

While I think DL's former hub in PDX was over-reaching, I do think that PDX is a great town and deserves a bit more. I don't think DL will care about code share there. They are only really interested in the major gateways these days.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 4:32 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):
I guess I'd ask why Florida is that unprofitable for them? Are their costs really so far out of control?

I don't think Florida works well for any of the legacy carriers except for AA at MIA. There's a reason DL slashed it's presence in Florida years ago. However, for some hubs you have to offer Florida in order to make the entire hub dynamics work. UA would lose a lot of business at EWR if they didn't offer Florida, even if those Florida flights don't produce a lot of profit. At IAD, UA doesn't really need Florida for IAD to work. IAD caters to international traffic, transcons and government business...not tourists going to FLL for vacation.

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):
I'd assume suburban building stopped with the housing crash, but it's pretty common for business routes to succeed at the downtown airport and for leisure flights to at least be fairly successful at suburban airports

But I don't think UA has ever positioned IAD as a leisure airport, nor have they wanted it to be one. UA isn't interested in the DC tourist crowd. They've seemed content to let that traffic bleed to BWI and to a lesser extent DCA. Tourists are much less picky on which airport they use and I know plenty of Northern Virginians who will drive to BWI for cheap vacation flights. You'll note that WN is flying BWI-FLL 10-11x daily...one of the highest frequency routes from the BWI hub.
 
jasoncrh
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Wed May 08, 2013 4:33 pm

I dont know where this is coming from. These are still showing as selling on united.com. this seems to be an error. Please check again.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 1):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA IAD-FLL SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0 NOV 1.0>0.5

These within perimeter routes for IAD are getting more difficult.
 
ANA787
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Thu May 09, 2013 3:23 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 28):
When is AS reducing SEA-ATL cuz I don't see it in the OAG as of yet.

If you read AS's the PDX-DFW/ATL announcement from the other day...

"The Portland-Atlanta flight will replace one of the two scheduled Seattle-Atlanta flights, which the carrier will reduce to one daily flight starting Aug. 26."

http://splash.alaskasworld.com/Newsr...s/ASstories/AS_20130502_060459.asp
 
vatveng
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Thu May 09, 2013 7:33 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
FL ATL-ORF NOV 0>3 DEC 0>3

Does this mean AirTran metal will be returning to Hampton Roads, or is this just FL selling codeshare seats?
 
deltal1011man
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Fri May 10, 2013 6:47 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 31):
You are implying the Fall schedule will be loaded? Yeah, I suspect. They implied some pruning on the quarterly call.

No, I mean the re-hash of DL adding more SEA/PDX-LAX flights.   (just couldn't say it in that post)
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
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enilria
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RE: OAG Changes 5/10/2013: DL/FL/UA/US/VX

Fri May 10, 2013 1:29 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
I don't think Florida works well for any of the legacy carriers except for AA at MIA.

Well, I agree, but isn't UA still using the CO 753s on EWR-Florida? Those are very low CASM. They shouldn't really have a cost disadvantage with those airplanes plus they should have some kind of high yield connecting feed from somewhere without LCC service.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
UA would lose a lot of business at EWR if they didn't offer Florida

That's really true anywhere and although Europe-Florida is a low-yield market, it is the equivalent of India to the Europeans...it fills up the bus. Without Florida from Dulles they eliminate a lot of options for revenue management.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
not tourists going to FLL for vacation.
Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 32):
UA isn't interested in the DC tourist crowd.

I get that, but UA is the only carrier who really does this. Traditionally they have barely flown IAD/ORD-Sun destinations. CO always did a ton from EWR and continues to. It seems like they are just continuing own with their pre-merger hub strategies. I don't really see the difference between IAD and EWR in terms of Florida. If anything, there is less need to defend Florida at EWR because they need the connecting feed less (more O&D on other routes) and competition is essentially frozen by slots/gates.

Quoting JasonCRH (Reply 33):

I dont know where this is coming from. These are still showing as selling on united.com. this seems to be an error. Please check again.

Definitely filed that way. I can only check it once per week. BTW, I have had airline planners PM me on a.net with messages such as "your posting alerted one of the execs to that change and now we are reversing it". So, this thread sometimes is the cause of the change, LOL. You have to remember that these changes are filed by schedule analysts typically and many changes are considered so small that they only get manager approval at most.

Quoting vatveng (Reply 35):
Does this mean AirTran metal will be returning to Hampton Roads, or is this just FL selling codeshare seats?

There should be *no* code share anywhere in the report unless the code share is the only selling code like Pinnacle code sharing with Delta. There are occasions where the airlines misfile and code shares appear, but I'd assume that is FL metal.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 36):
No, I mean the re-hash of DL adding more SEA/PDX-LAX flights.

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