mia305
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WN To De-hub ATL.

Wed May 08, 2013 10:39 pm

It appears WN is de-hubbing ATL. In stead of flying non stop
flights it inherited from FL its going point to point domestic and is stil
non stop to SJU.

WN says the move wil eliminate 300 FL jobs but they'll be offered
other positions or relocations at other stations.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Wed May 08, 2013 10:43 pm

For those who were wondering, here is the news report:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...-adds-more-airtran-cities/2144017/

Considering that WN will focus on point-to-point traffic, I can assume this means ABQ-ATL on WN will not happen (O&D between the two cities is marginal at best; the bulk of passengers on DL's flights from ABQ are connecting in ATL).

[Edited 2013-05-08 15:46:24]
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kcrwflyer
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Wed May 08, 2013 11:17 pm

This is relatively old news. They said a long time ago that they were going to de-bank the ATL hub. Don't know how large of an operation they'll end up with given the percentage of FL pax that were connecting at ATL and the fact that WN fares won't be any lower than FL's..eek math!!
 
airplaneboy
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Wed May 08, 2013 11:19 pm

I think this is a good thing business wise (but unfortunate for those who will have to relocate). WN *generally* establishes their schedules based on local O&D traffic/demand. With few exceptions (MDW and DEN), WN does not have hubs in the traditional sense whereby they do not create banks of flights to connect passengers (which is what a hub truly is). They use their aircraft more efficiently by routing them throughout their network to serve the maximum number of local markets as they can. If connections can be created, then they will be offered. But new markets are not added with the sole intention to create connecting itineraries. This is why you'll see that they have a large presence in most of their markets- because they primarily cater to local O&D travel.
 
ncflyer
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Wed May 08, 2013 11:20 pm

To me, this is marketing fluff meaningless. To get to anywhere from most smaller markets on WN, you have to change in MDW, BWI, BNA, DEN, etc. Other than the fact that WN has so many hubs, hows that any different from a legacy.
 
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DeltaMD90
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Wed May 08, 2013 11:27 pm

I agree, not really news to those that had somewhat of an understanding about WN's business model. I still laugh a bit when I think about the merger threads that were going on around here saying all kinds of grand things like WN was gonna grow even more at ATL and add all these flights... that's just not WN. They will be a formidable competitor, ATL will be a large station, but the size of FL's ATL operation is just an orange in WN's basket of apples...
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
mia305
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Wed May 08, 2013 11:43 pm

Why wouldn't WN want to have a hub in ATL? I know what WN business
model entails and the point to point concept.

But if they opened a few non stops to key market places and leisure cities say LAX, SFO, LAS &
even EYW on a 737-700. Wouldn't that ruffle a few feathers in ATL namely DL.
 
airliner371
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Wed May 08, 2013 11:54 pm

Quoting mia305 (Reply 6):
But if they opened a few non stops to key market places and leisure cities say LAX, SFO, LAS

They are operating to all three of these airports from ATL.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 6):

Your post makes it seem as though you think they are gonna cut most of the flights and thats not it. The dehubing mostly involves removing the banks and moving towards more O&D routes. They are still gonna be at 165 flights in this part of the dehub and will stay somewhere in the hundred by the end.

[Edited 2013-05-08 16:56:17]
 
BOStonsox
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 12:15 am

I wonder how long it will be before we see B6 from BOS. They might add SJU and JFK as well. And VX would probably add flights to SFO and LAX also.
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ouboy79
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 12:18 am

Quoting mia305 (Thread starter):

It appears WN is de-hubbing ATL. In stead of flying non stop
flights it inherited from FL its going point to point domestic and is stil
non stop to SJU.

WN says the move wil eliminate 300 FL jobs but they'll be offered
other positions or relocations at other stations.

Go read: WN/FL May 6 Schedule Release Predictions? (by wnflyguy Apr 25 2013 in Civil Aviation)

The dehubbing is all in the system now. Most of your questions are going to be answered there. If you want to know what the nonstop network from WN looks like, go to the website and click on the route map then selection nonstop only and hover over ATL.
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 1:00 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 9):
If you want to know what the nonstop network from WN looks like, go to the website and click on the route map then selection nonstop only and hover over ATL.

But doesn't that also show the still-active Airtran flights ex-ATL as well?
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DiamondFlyer
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 1:06 am

Quoting mia305 (Reply 6):
But if they opened a few non stops to key market places and leisure cities say LAX, SFO, LAS &
even EYW on a 737-700. Wouldn't that ruffle a few feathers in ATL namely DL.

Sure, it would. And Delta would flood every market WN is flying with capacity at lower prices than WN will fly them at. Don't think Delta is just going to sit there and let WN chip away.

-DiamondFlyer
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Bobloblaw
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 2:21 am

Quoting mia305 (Reply 6):
Why wouldn't WN want to have a hub in ATL? I know what WN business
model entails and the point to point concept.

WN cant make money on the FL traffic that was flowing over ATL. Too low yield for WN.
 
727LOVER
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 2:54 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 12):
Too low yield for WN.

Because WN.s costs are too high  
Quoting mia305 (Thread starter):
wil eliminate 300 FL jobs

YAY......go WN!  


THEEEEEE most anti-consumer merger in history!

[Edited 2013-05-08 20:03:36]
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Cubsrule
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 3:02 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 13):
THEEEEEE most anti-consumer merfer in history!

Maybe, but ATL consumers actually benefit with more service to places they want to go rather than, say, BMI and FNT.
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Bobloblaw
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 3:26 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 13):
Because WN.s costs are too high

Yes, WN's costs are too high to make money off the marginal FL pax.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 13):
THEEEEEE most anti-consumer merger in history!

Well, TW/OZ and NW/RC were pretty blatantly anti-consumer.
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 3:32 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 13):
THEEEEEE most anti-consumer merger in history!

It's up there.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 14):
Maybe, but ATL consumers actually benefit with more service to places they want to go rather than, say, BMI and FNT.

We can't possibly pretend this is good for Atlanta as a whole. Fares to every single city FL flew to will rise one way or another.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 3:37 am

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 4):
Other than the fact that WN has so many hubs, hows that any different from a legacy.

The greater the number of flights to a single hub, the greater the number of potential one stop connections. WN has chosen not to connect to the Nth degree.

This will be a little less appealing for O&D traffic at ATL, but it will be made up at other hubs. I think the difference is a small cost savings for WN.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 13):
THEEEEEE most anti-consumer merger in history!

I would argue that UA/CO would have been worse for consumers. FL was a small player in the grand scheme of things. In fact, it could be considered proconsumer due to

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 15):
Well, TW/OZ and NW/RC were pretty blatantly anti-consumer.

OZ and RC are?

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 9):
If you want to know what the nonstop network from WN looks like, go to the website and click on the route map then selection nonstop only and hover over ATL.

Great suggestion.


Definitely click on the 'non-stop' only button as otherwise a different impression is given.

Link: http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/routemap_dyn.html

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 11):
Sure, it would. And Delta would flood every market WN is flying with capacity at lower prices than WN will fly them at. Don't think Delta is just going to sit there and let WN chip away.

Umm... WN is already flying there... I'm confused. WN has no desire to get into a price war with DL. But WN (or DL) will increase frequency as demand allows.

Lightsaber
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MesaFlyGuy
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 3:41 am

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 8):
I wonder how long it will be before we see B6 from BOS.

Probably not long.

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 8):
They might add SJU and JFK as well.

Probably

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 8):
And VX would probably add flights to SFO and LAX also.

VERY VERY doubtful. If you think UA's response to them at EWR and ORD were harsh, watch DL at ATL. You would probably see hourly international 767s and 777s with 747s there as well.
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Bobloblaw
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 3:48 am

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 18):
Probably

I dont think youll see B6 fly ATL-JFK or SJU, but instead ATL-FLL. B6 said they are targeting FLL with 100 daily flights. ATL would be a good spoke for FL-Latin/Carribbean flights. If WN ever ends ATL-BOS, then B6 should be a no brainer.

I still think VX could fly ATL-LAX, because of all the movie and TV shows in ATL now. Obviously that wont fill the plane but it would be a good source of higher yielding pax.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 18):
VERY VERY doubtful. If you think UA's response to them at EWR and ORD were harsh, watch DL at ATL. You would probably see hourly international 767s and 777s with 747s there as well.

Not in response to two daily A320s. They would probably increase frequency, but that is overkill.
 
canyonblue17
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 4:19 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 13):
THEEEEEE most anti-consumer merger in history!

If more consumers had supported FL and kept it strong enough to avoid an acquisition maybe this would not have happened. Many could argue the reason Alaska Airlines has not been gobbled up has been the strong consumer support it gets. It I a two-way flight path.
negative ghostrider the pattern is full
 
ouboy79
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 4:26 am

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 10):
But doesn't that also show the still-active Airtran flights ex-ATL as well?

Anything with the WN code will be shown, so that includes every FL flight that is currently active. The routes vanish once they are past their final day.

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 11):
Sure, it would. And Delta would flood every market WN is flying with capacity at lower prices than WN will fly them at. Don't think Delta is just going to sit there and let WN chip away.

As Lightsabre pointed out, you do realize they already serve all of those except EYW right? It's been going for awhile too.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 13):
YAY......go WN!  

I agree. Go WN! Why to reduce the number of gates need by TEN and maintain 165 flights a day (down only 10 from what it is now). They are finally fixing the inefficient ATL operation FL had. The folks will be taken care of. WN employees are also offered the ability to transfer back out of ATL to help out the FL folks.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 13):
THEEEEEE most anti-consumer merger in history!

Isn't every merger anti-consumer? With pretty much every single one options are reduced, competition goes down, and routes are dropped.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 16):
We can't possibly pretend this is good for Atlanta as a whole. Fares to every single city FL flew to will rise one way or another.

Why not? Markets that aren't profitable are getting axed and the operation gets stronger overall. Artificially low fares just to fight for market share isn't good for the overall health of the operation.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 17):
OZ and RC are?

I think he means Ozark and Republic.
 
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 4:57 am

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 16):

We can't possibly pretend this is good for Atlanta as a whole. Fares to every single city FL flew to will rise one way or another.

DL has to be jumping for joy.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 7):
Your post makes it seem as though you think they are gonna cut most of the flights and thats not it

The math just doesn't add up. FL was on thin ice on bare bones costs, and loads of flow, picking up scraps of local ATL traffic that was not loyal to DL, and barely loyal to FL. Now take out F, increase the unit costs, remove the flow, drop the bag revenue, and throw that up against one of the best run operations in the industry, both in terms of customer service and financially. If WN is still above 100 daily deps in ATL in a couple years I'll be shocked--I'd expect it to end up looking like PHL.
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SurfandSnow
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 6:37 am

If I didn't know better, all the press reports and a.net chatter would lead me to (mistakenly) believe that Atlanta is facing the classic case of an acquiring carrier rapidly and thoroughly dismantling a hub they just acquired. Maybe some folks just don't realize that WN taking on FL's primary hub at ATL is absolutely NOT the same as, say, AA picking up TW's STL hub!

Believe it or not, one of the main reasons WN bought FL was ATL. Atlanta was by far the largest domestic market that WN still didn't serve, and it is quite hard for new entrants to gain gate space at ATL (even now, after the opening of the 12 gate Concourse F). I'm sure WN would have ultimately found a way to get the gates necessary for ATL service, but even then they probably would have been hamstrung by having few gates - thereby limiting the amount of service they could offer - whilst facing excessive competition from both DL and FL. It seems like WN wanted to serve ATL in a big way (similar to other major markets they entered in the 2000s, like DEN and PHL) rather than just offering a token presence (i.e. BOS, MSP). If they wanted a token ATL presence, they probably would have had one before buying FL. Since they presumably wanted a major ATL presence, organic growth was not an option: simply put, their only option was to buy FL.

FL's ATL hub was not what I would call peachy (pardon the pun). By the early 2000s, FL had already added service to every viable market east of the Mississippi from their ATL hub. In fact, several of their smaller markets weren't all that viable, and they tried outsourcing some ops to ZW CRJ-200s (dba AirTran JetConnect) to rectify this. In the end, many of the JetConnect markets were long gone before WN came into the picture - i.e. GSO, MYR, SAV, and TLH. Mainline FL then set its sights on the West, where several key markets were untapped and could provide much-needed feed for the ATL hub. However, once they had covered the big 5 (LAS, LAX, PHX, SEA, and SFO), they quickly discovered nothing else, even SAN, would work from their ATL hub. FL then focused most of its growth efforts elsewhere, whether it was building the MKE hub, starting p2p routes to Florida and LAS, or opening new stations with no service to ATL at all - i.e. AVL, BTV, CRW, GRR, LEX, etc. Of course, FL was always willing to add service to their ATL hub for a price, and several markets were willing to pony up the necessary funds - i.e. ACY, BKG, FPO, GPT, ICT, UTM, etc. ATL did get a nice boost when FL decided to go international, but once again, FL quickly grabbed all the low-hanging fruit (CUN, MBJ, PUJ, SJU, etc.) and really had no viable opportunities left from their ATL hub. Bottom line - FL maxed out the potential of their ATL hub as a regional all-717 operator, then a few years later they did the same as a domestic 737 carrier, and only a few more years passed until they had seized virtually all near-international opportunities. Independent FL was heavily reliant on subsidies for several of their ATL spokes, and they were even cutting longstanding services like ATL-MLI before WN took the helm. IMO, a lot of the cuts being made by WN at ATL would probably have happened even if FL had remained independent. Their ATL hub was not some amazing gold mine.

Now, WN is not "dehubbing" ATL as much as right-sizing it to better match O&D and the WN business model. This will be much more sustainable in the long run. I really don't understand what all the fuss is about. If you live in Atlanta, would you rather have nonstop LCC service to crap places like Bloomington, IL and Rochester, NY like FL offered, or have nonstop LCC service to great places like Austin, TX and San Diego, CA like WN now offers?!? Not to mention seamless access to WN markets like PDX and SLC that FL could have never taken you to. IMO, Atlanta should be grateful for these changes, and expect WN to keep service to all important/major markets intact just like they did at FL's MKE hub.
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Bobloblaw
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 8:52 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):

I think FL had a higher percent local than did DL. Also FL had a decent corporate program. People say Air Tran was on thin ice but they were profitable. A emerged Delta from BK was tougher to compete with. WN offered a 66% premium on their share price.
 
airliner371
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 11:38 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
I'd expect it to end up looking like PHL.

Your "story" keeps getting funnier....     
Not gonna happen.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 11:58 am

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 16):
We can't possibly pretend this is good for Atlanta as a whole. Fares to every single city FL flew to will rise one way or another.

Is service to AUS and SAN "worse" than paying $5 more to Chicago? I don't see how you can possibly conclude that.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 12:19 pm

What a mess.

And what was the point?

The merger (or takeover) between these two airlines has been an ongoing saga without end. They just started code-sharing on flights!

So you get rid of the 717s and de hub ATL...and you get some 737s (which WN could have easily bought) a small international network (which WN could have easily built) and an O and D system in ATL (which WN could have done themselves...just like they did to F9 in DEN)

So what the heck was the point?
 
kcrwflyer
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 12:20 pm

Quoting DiamondFlyer (Reply 11):
Sure, it would. And Delta would flood every market WN is flying with capacity at lower prices than WN will fly them at. Don't think Delta is just going to sit there and let WN chip away.

Delta did that with AirTran. With WN, I highly doubt there will be much if any flooding in response to them adding routes. DL will price competitively, but it won't be nearly like it was when FL would add a city. On the routes where WN takes over for FL, DL can probably cut a flight or two, or down-gauge to smaller aircraft and bring the fare up to where WN sets it.

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 21):

Why not? Markets that aren't profitable are getting axed and the operation gets stronger overall. Artificially low fares just to fight for market share isn't good for the overall health of the operation.

My point was made in reference to the O&D Market in Atlanta, not the health of WN's operation there. I'm not arguing that WN is doing what they have to do; they are given their model and costs.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
DL has to be jumping for joy.

This is working out so well for them they probably cant believe it. They're probably added staff just to pinch or slap senior management on a daily basis to remind them it's not a dream.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 26):
Is service to AUS and SAN "worse" than paying $5 more to Chicago? I don't see how you can possibly conclude that.

AirTran didn't fly to San Diego? $5 increase is an understatement.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 12:29 pm

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 28):
AirTran didn't fly to San Diego? $5 increase is an understatement.

No, and maybe, but the point is that the merger will have pro-competitive effects (new low fare service) in some markets and anti-competitive effects (elimination of service and/or fare increases) in others. How do we possibly balance those and conclude that ATL customers are worse off?
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airbazar
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 12:30 pm

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 8):
I wonder how long it will be before we see B6 from BOS.

I don't see WN dropping BOS-ATL so probably not any time soon.
 
Flytravel
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 1:14 pm

Well it's FL that's still flying to the NE to ATL nonstop. FL with business class seats and coach seats sold on expedia, etc and a lot of connecting traffic where WN will be targeting different pax. Its interesting the BDL-ATL addition was on FL. Let's see them (PHL, LGA, BDL, BOS) convert to WN metal or not. I'm 100 percent DCA-ATL will and RIC and RDU.
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 1:34 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 22):
The math just doesn't add up. FL was on thin ice on bare bones costs, and loads of flow, picking up scraps of local ATL traffic that was not loyal to DL, and barely loyal to FL. Now take out F, increase the unit costs, remove the flow, drop the bag revenue, and throw that up against one of the best run operations in the industry, both in terms of customer service and financially

WN is the largest domestic carrier by passengers boarded and the best fit financially... all without F, higher unit costs, non-traditional hubs, etc, etc, etc. according to DOT statistics and passenger surveys, DL is not the best in the industry in terms of customer service.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 1:40 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 32):
DL is not the best in the industry in terms of customer service.
DL might be up there company-wide, but ATL is one of the two or three worst stations in the company (only LGA and JFK give it a run for its money).

[Edited 2013-05-09 06:41:00]
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Bobloblaw
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 3:57 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 27):

Just like 1995 and Morris Air.

Getting rid of a low cost low fare competitor. Morris was a long term threat to WN moving onto the west coast. FL was depressing fares in the eastern half of the USA.
 
milesrich
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 6:00 pm

I

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 34):
Just like 1995 and Morris Air.

Getting rid of a low cost low fare competitor. Morris was a long term threat to WN moving onto the west coast. FL was depressing fares in the eastern half of the USA.

I absolutely agree, and this will help Delta immensely. Southwest will eventually cut back ATL the way they did at SLC after dismantling Morris.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 6:31 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 34):
Just like 1995 and Morris Air.

Getting rid of a low cost low fare competitor. Morris was a long term threat to WN moving onto the west coast. FL was depressing fares in the eastern half of the USA.

I hope that isn't the reason, as it just opens 'space' for G4, NK, B6, and whomever buys F9.

Lightsaber
"They did not know it was impossible, so they did it!" - Mark Twain
 
boslax
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 6:42 pm

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 34):
Getting rid of a low cost low fare competitor. Morris was a long term threat to WN moving onto the west coast. FL was depressing fares in the eastern half of the USA.

I thought the Morris Air deal was all about their aircraft. Southwest needed some 737's and Morris had the 737-300's with analog cockpits that Southwest desired.

Quoting milesrich (Reply 35):
Southwest will eventually cut back ATL the way they did at SLC after dismantling Morris.

The summer of the acquistion, 1994, Morris operated 38 daily flights from SLC. Two years later, WN was operating approx 40 daily depts. Today WN, operates 32 daily depts from SLC. Not sure I would call that a dismantling.
 
usflyguy
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 6:49 pm

Quoting boslax (Reply 37):
The summer of the acquistion, 1994, Morris operated 38 daily flights from SLC. Two years later, WN was operating approx 40 daily depts. Today WN, operates 32 daily depts from SLC. Not sure I would call that a dismantling.

Are you new or something? Facts aren't allowed around here...    
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
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United_fan
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 7:31 pm

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 23):
If you live in Atlanta, would you rather have nonstop LCC service to crap places like Bloomington, IL and Rochester, NY like FL offered

That's a little harsh.(the ROC part)
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BOStonsox
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 9:38 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 30):
I don't see WN dropping BOS-ATL so probably not any time soon.

ATL is the largest market from BOS that B6 doesn't serve. It's bigger than BOS-DFW and that market has three carriers, although AA is weaker at the moment than DL is. I think it's going to happen relatively soon, I just wonder how soon.
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etops1
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Thu May 09, 2013 10:05 pm

Is it me , or has WN acquired AirTran just to eliminate a competitor ? It really dosent look like your traditional merger. It just looks like WN went in to dismantle AirTran and get rid of it .
 
skycub
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Fri May 10, 2013 12:06 am

Quoting milesrich (Reply 35):
Southwest will eventually cut back ATL the way they did at SLC after dismantling Morris.

Quoting boslax (Reply 37):

I thought the Morris Air deal was all about their aircraft. Southwest needed some 737's and Morris had the 737-300's with analog cockpits that Southwest desired.

Who knows if it is true or not... but the story I have always been told is that Morris Air approached Southwest....

The founder of Morris Air, June Morris, had been diagnosed with cancer and SHE approached Southwest asking for Southwest to acquire them. There was, at the time, absolutely no overlapping routes.... and Morris had modeled themselves after Southwest. The Morris acquisition resulted in NO overlapping routes and an entirely new region of operations for Southwest... Seattle, Spokane, Boise, Salt Lake City, Portland, Orange County, etc etc. They flew the same planes and they operated on a point to point system. Morris had modeled themselves after Southwest, and once June Morris was diagnosed with cancer.... she wanted her legacy to be part of Southwest.
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ouboy79
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Fri May 10, 2013 1:47 am

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 34):
Just like 1995 and Morris Air.

Getting rid of a low cost low fare competitor. Morris was a long term threat to WN moving onto the west coast. FL was depressing fares in the eastern half of the USA.

Not to leave out...AA/QQ, US/Peidmont, TW/OZ, and just about every single merger.

Quoting boslax (Reply 37):
The summer of the acquistion, 1994, Morris operated 38 daily flights from SLC. Two years later, WN was operating approx 40 daily depts. Today WN, operates 32 daily depts from SLC. Not sure I would call that a dismantling.

Hey now. How dare you confront people with actual facts. You'll make their heads explode!  
Quoting etops1 (Reply 41):

Is it me , or has WN acquired AirTran just to eliminate a competitor ? It really dosent look like your traditional merger. It just looks like WN went in to dismantle AirTran and get rid of it .

Just to eliminate a competitor? No. Was it part of it? I'm sure. FL was showing signs of wanting to participate in the M&A activity going on, so it might have also been the case of get them before someone else does. This is definitely nothing like AA/QQ or AA/TW where nothing is left after the fact.

Quoting skycub (Reply 42):
Who knows if it is true or not... but the story I have always been told is that Morris Air approached Southwest....

The founder of Morris Air, June Morris, had been diagnosed with cancer and SHE approached Southwest asking for Southwest to acquire them. There was, at the time, absolutely no overlapping routes.... and Morris had modeled themselves after Southwest. The Morris acquisition resulted in NO overlapping routes and an entirely new region of operations for Southwest... Seattle, Spokane, Boise, Salt Lake City, Portland, Orange County, etc etc. They flew the same planes and they operated on a point to point system. Morris had modeled themselves after Southwest, and once June Morris was diagnosed with cancer.... she wanted her legacy to be part of Southwest.

I believe that's correct.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Fri May 10, 2013 2:00 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
JFK give it a run for its money).

Not for long........             

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 23):
If you live in Atlanta, would you rather have nonstop LCC service to crap places like Bloomington, IL and Rochester, NY like FL offered, or have nonstop LCC service to great places like Austin, TX and San Diego, CA like WN now offers?!?

Well, all of those markets also have DL (and all of them have mainline more than once a day), so obviously people want to go to these "crap cities".
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steeler83
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Fri May 10, 2013 2:15 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 43):
US/Peidmont

In that sense, considering what it looks like is happening with WN/FL and their ATL ops, I guess I'd compare it more to US-PSA rather than US/Piedmont. There is at least one ex-Piedmont hub that's still around and will likely be around for some time to come -- for AA.

USAir bought PSA, which had a focus city in SAN and hubs in LAX and SFO (IIRC). They altimately moved everything out east through CLT, PHL, PIT, BWI, and wherever else they had a hub...
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wnflyguy
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Fri May 10, 2013 3:34 am

Quoting skycub (Reply 42):

You are 100% correct on how Morris magic became part of Southwest spirit.
wnfg  couple 

[Edited 2013-05-09 20:36:27]
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Fri May 10, 2013 4:00 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 23):
Atlanta was by far the largest domestic market that WN still didn't serve, and it is quite hard for new entrants to gain gate space at ATL (even now, after the opening of the 12 gate Concourse F).

Horse poo. ATL has 10 CUTE gates that Delta can't touch. Because of this ATL has room for (limited) growth.

What you have seen is complete stupidity by WN. IMHO they have gotten a little big headed after Denver and seem to have thought they would be able to come in a bully Delta around. They were wrong(again) and Delta is kicking their butts.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 33):
but ATL is one of the two or three worst stations in the company

er. Got data to back that up?

All the numbers we get told on the inside say that is completely false.

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 32):
best fit financially.

based on?

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 32):
DL is not the best in the industry in terms of customer service.

based on what? DOT numbers? If so who has better numbers, DL or WN?
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ouboy79
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Fri May 10, 2013 4:45 am

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 45):
In that sense, considering what it looks like is happening with WN/FL and their ATL ops, I guess I'd compare it more to US-PSA rather than US/Piedmont. There is at least one ex-Piedmont hub that's still around and will likely be around for some time to come -- for AA.

Oh I wasn't excluding US/PSA...which is probably a better example. My point is that nearly every airline has resulted in less competition. It is the whole point behind consolidation.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 47):
What you have seen is complete stupidity by WN. IMHO they have gotten a little big headed after Denver and seem to have thought they would be able to come in a bully Delta around. They were wrong(again) and Delta is kicking their butts.

Really? I don't recall the company ever stating they were going into ATL to bully DL. You simply can't do that at a 1000 flight hub. However, ATL does have a lot of opportunities for an WN style operation to work alongside DL.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 47):
based on?

40 years of consistent profitability helps for one. The company is also on target to hit its 15% ROI for the year. That's not too shabby. All without going to the courts to get things cleaned up.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 47):
based on what? DOT numbers? If so who has better numbers, DL or WN?

Have you ever looked at them? Here is the latest report: http://airconsumer.dot.gov/reports/2012/September/2012SeptATCR.PDF

Southwest is #2 in the nation, where it normally ends up, behind Hawaiian. Delta is 6th overall, though not as bad as United who is 15th or dead last of those measured.
 
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airportugal310
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RE: WN To De-hub ATL.

Fri May 10, 2013 5:15 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 48):

Spread that Aloha Spirit!   
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