deltal1011man
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Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 6:02 am

Delta is making more changes at LA.

New:
LAX-PDX 4x daily (CR9) starts 9/3

Added
Daily frequency on LAX-CMH(738) and LAX-IND(320). 8/20
2 more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3
LAX-BOS extended to 9/2 (73H)
LAX-MSY getting a 3rd daily flight 9/3(all 319)
LAX-TPA going to a morning flight again. 8/20 and going to 738 from 320)


With all the changes it puts Delta at nearly 120 flights per day.

two things, all this is in the Delta timetable and I tried to post times twice and anet crashed on me. So its someone elses problem now.      



[Edited 2013-05-08 23:09:22]
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AeroWesty
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 6:03 am

More new service at PDX.   
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SANFan
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 6:38 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
LAX-PDX 4x daily (CR9) starts 9/3

Added
2 more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3

Obviously retaliation at AS for their PDX-ATL announcement!  

bb
 
cschleic
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 6:47 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
Obviously retaliation at AS for their PDX-ATL announcement!

Ha ha!


Way back when, they used to fly PDX - LAX with an MD-11! Among other planes.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 6:54 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
LAX-PDX 4x daily (CR9) starts 9/3
Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3

It just got serious! lol

Quoting cschleic (Reply 3):
Way back when, they used to fly PDX - LAX with an MD-11! Among other planes.

We flew them LAX-PDX-SEA in the last row of a 727-200. Would have liked the MD11, though.

-Dave
-Dave
 
ANA787
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 6:54 am

Nice!

Hopefully now DL will add the rumored PDX-CDG service.

I also hope DL will bring back the evening/late afternoon PDX-HNL service.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 7:13 am

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 5):

I'd like to see PDX-HNL back. (not holding my breath for CDG)

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):

I am starting to think maybe Delta is getting a little pissy.

While I thought LAX-PDX was only a matter of time....I really thought ORD, Texas and Denver would come first. The late add(after just adding BNA,GEG,ANC,BOS,SEA,SJC plus extra flights/capacity to SFO,LAS,PHX,OAK,SMF) makes me think this came due to PDX-ATL on AS. (i mean, why wait till 9/3 when all those new routes/adds are starting in June?)

but maybe not. hopefully more LAX growth keeps coming.

I think we all knew they would go daily on IND/CMH.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 4):
It just got serious! lol

what will be interesting is if they continue the mainline flying of the route.
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chrisair
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 7:22 am

Quoting cschleic (Reply 3):
Way back when, they used to fly PDX - LAX with an MD-11! Among other planes.

I don't think they ever flew the MD-11s on the PDX-LAX route. Maybe when they first got the GE powered ones and had to do fuel stops, but I don't think they were regularly scheduled.

I do remember the 727s and 757s on the route though.

In any event, this is good news. The Alaska flights have been packed to the gills lately and a little more capacity is a good thing. The Skywest CR9s are nice planes.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 7:25 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 6):
I am starting to think maybe Delta is getting a little pissy.

I wouldn't make too much of it. We might not even be back to the full nonstop capacity we had when United ran 737s down to LAX.

The Portland economy is heating up. I haven't verified this elsewhere, but the news this morning said homes coming onto the market are selling 'within hours'. That's a huge uptick in our local economy from 4-5 years ago.
International Homo of Mystery
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 7:32 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):

Oh like i said, I honestly think it was coming one way or another. I just think DFW/IAH/ORD would come first. (and really, SAT/AUS and maybe even OKC)

DEN/PDX seemed like some of the last few pieces of the puzzle. guess not.

Also, like i said, they had the big PR for all the new service not even a month ago. Now they are expanding into SEA/PDX-LAX and new AA markets.

(and i generally don't believe in airline pissing matches, but we just may be seeing one here)
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chrisair
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 7:55 am

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
The Portland economy is heating up. I haven't verified this elsewhere, but the news this morning said homes coming onto the market are selling 'within hours'. That's a huge uptick in our local economy from 4-5 years ago.

An increase in home sales doesn't necessarily mean the economy is picking up and adding jobs. A lot of the sales could be attributed to investors looking for a bargain.

The Oregon economy as a whole is certainly much healthier than 2007 and 2008 (that was a scary time at my company...along with most others), but it's still not doing all that great. I think the March unemployment number in Oregon was 8.3%. Nationally it is 7.6% and in WA it's 7.3%.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 8:02 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
Delta is making more changes at LA.

Yes, and I think their recent LAX expansion makes a lot more sense than that haphazard mess of the mid-2000s. They've gradually established a great regional base that appeals to local FFers (no Angeleno can routinely fly an airline that doesn't offer service to Vegas and the Bay Area) whilst providing feed for the longer haul stuff. Now, with that increased local loyalty and connecting feed, they should be much better positioned to pull off niche routes like LAX-GEG or jump back into uber-competitive markets like LAX-BOS.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
New:
LAX-PDX 4x daily (CR9) starts 9/3

After LAX-SEA, this was only a matter of time. However, I do wonder if 4 competing nonstop carriers (plus the WN one stops) on this route is viable. If 4 was too many for the DEN-PDX route, I wonder if something will have to give on LAX-PDX. AS won't be going anywhere, but it will be interesting to see if DL, UA, and VX can hold up. I believe UA was flying 757s on LAX-PDX just a few years ago..now CRJs. How times have changed.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
Daily frequency on LAX-CMH(738) and LAX-IND(320). 8/20

No resumption of BDL? Or PIT? Or STL? Or AUS? Or DFW? Or ORD? Or a daytime MIA flight? They are letting AA off pretty easily here. Last time they upped the RDU frequency and decided to give them some more competition on LAX-BNA.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
2 more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3

Wow. As I alluded to earlier with regards to LAX-PDX, I wonder if this has less to do with AS (as many people are quick to think) and more to do with UA, or VX. Maybe DL thinks it can run UA or VX right off the LAX-SEA/PDX routes?

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
LAX-BOS extended to 9/2 (73H)

Still just a summer seasonal route. For now. Sit back and let the other 4 duke it over the slower winter months  .

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
LAX-MSY getting a 3rd daily flight 9/3(all 319)

3x daily?!? This is, IMO, the biggest surprise. I realize that DL is quite strong historically in the MSY market, but its not like competitors UA and WN are all that weak there. I do wonder if DL is trying to target UA on some of its seemingly weakest LAX routes with these moves...

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
LAX-TPA going to a morning flight again. 8/20 and going to 738 from 320)

I hear DL has been trying to put the AVOD 738s on its longer routes, and I sure hope that's the case. I was stuck on the non-AVOD 738 when I took TPA-LAX. At least this means it's no longer a redeye, though.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
With all the changes it puts Delta at nearly 120 flights per day.

Nobody can accuse them of gate squatting anymore! If anything, it seems AA and DL have been putting their LAX gates to very good use, while UA...
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AeroWesty
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 8:07 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 10):
I think the March unemployment number in Oregon was 8.3%.

No good news goes unpunished, I guess. Portland unemployment has averaged in the lower 7% range lately. You know, where the flight goes to.  

Now we return you back to your scheduled discussion about Delta's new routes!   
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panamair
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 10:14 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
They've gradually established a great regional base that appeals to local FFers (no Angeleno can routinely fly an airline that doesn't offer service to Vegas and the Bay Area)

Another not-often-mentioned attribute about Delta's LAX schedule is that they now consistently offer 2-class aircraft on all routes out of LAX now, even LAX-SAN (combo of CR7 and CR9s). OAK, SMF, PHX, SJC, etc., all use either CR7s and/or CR9s as well.
 
commavia
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 10:51 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
Daily frequency on LAX-CMH(738) and LAX-IND(320). 8/20

Looks like AA is keeping DL honest in the LAX-CMH and LAX-IND markets, like LAX-RDU.

Ah, competition ...
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 11:52 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 9):
and maybe even OKC)

That would make three carriers on the route...as AA and UA are already established. DL tried it once...and lasted barely 6 months
 
dlflynhayn
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 12:34 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
2 more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3


Great because every time i look up these flights since it started its been around 90% full...Don't remember the MD-11 going to PDX but the last time i flew to PDX on DL it was on an L10-11 and now a CR9 oh well at least we have the route coming back.
 
cschleic
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 1:04 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 7):
I don't think they ever flew the MD-11s on the PDX-LAX route. Maybe when they first got the GE powered ones and had to do fuel stops, but I don't think they were regularly scheduled.

I do remember the 727s and 757s on the route though.

They did. It was an extension of one of the Asian flights back when they had a mini-Asia hub at PDX. So it represented one-stop service to LAX. Don't recall which city, though. Granted, PDX - LAX mostly was 727 or 757 service. The one flight/day that operated with an MD-11 had higher fares, due to "higher service level" despite being only a two-hour flight. They also flew L-1011's to SLC.

This article, while somewhat long, has some history and a photo representative of the time....three MD-11's, a 1011, and smaller planes.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/airlinerep...-in-portland-%E2%80%93-guest-blog/
 
ORD14R
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 1:53 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):

Daily frequency on LAX-CMH(738) and LAX-IND(320). 8/20

In my opinion no way IND can support 2 daily flights to LAX, especially after Labor Day. Who will blink first?
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 2:21 pm

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 18):
In my opinion no way IND can support 2 daily flights to LAX, especially after Labor Day. Who will blink first?

You would likely have to see DL drop IND-SLC to do this. SLC offers IND a myriad of other west coast destinations.
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deltal1011man
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 3:15 pm

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 15):

Hmm good call.


Oh crap, you do know that ~80 of the new flights they have added over the last 4 years also failed with the ERJ expansion?
But hey thanks. It never fails that someone has to bring up the ERJ expansion. Clearly not the same but thanks for getting it out of the way  
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AWACSooner
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 3:44 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
Oh crap, you do know that ~80 of the new flights they have added over the last 4 years also failed with the ERJ expansion?
But hey thanks. It never fails that someone has to bring up the ERJ expansion. Clearly not the same but thanks for getting it out of the way

But did DL also have competition on the OKC-LAX route during the ERJ expansion? Methinks not...as AA and UA came in after they exited the route.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 3:56 pm

Good news. More competition indeed. With that said, I'm wondering how much longer UA will stay on PDX-LAX and if Virgin will increase their frequency.
 
Bobloblaw
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):

Not necessarily.
 
rgreenftm
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 4:11 pm

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Wow. As I alluded to earlier with regards to LAX-PDX, I wonder if this has less to do with AS (as many people are quick to think) and more to do with UA, or VX. Maybe DL thinks it can run UA or VX right off the LAX-SEA/PDX routes?

Me thinks there is a very good possibility that DL that is run off the LAX-SEA/PDX routes  
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 4:13 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 13):
Another not-often-mentioned attribute about Delta's LAX schedule is that they now consistently offer 2-class aircraft on all routes out of LAX now, even LAX-SAN (combo of CR7 and CR9s).

And not just availability on every route from LAX, it's 2-class airplanes on every FLIGHT by DL and DL Connection carriers. There's isn't a single 50-seater (or smaller) in the mix.

[Edited 2013-05-09 09:14:01]

[Edited 2013-05-09 09:14:24]
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 5:26 pm

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 24):
Me thinks there is a very good possibility that DL that is run off the LAX-SEA/PDX routes

With DL and AA cozy with AS, and with UA more focused on SFO (and down to CRJ's to to SEA/PDX ex-LAX), I would tend to think it will be VX or UA that blink.

-Dave
-Dave
 
doug_or
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 6:03 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 26):
VX or UA that blink.

VX loads seem to have been improving based on my anecdotal observations. If UA wants to be a be able to provide a full network to LAX FFs it seems 2 50 seaters a day is pretty much the floor of what they can do. I would say VX (if they fold) or DL (because they will still have AS feed) would be most likely to blink.
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MAH4546
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 6:13 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 26):
With DL and AA cozy with AS, and with UA more focused on SFO (and down to CRJ's to to SEA/PDX ex-LAX), I would tend to think it will be VX or UA that blink.

It is rumored that AA will be entering the LAX-SEA/PDX markets within a year as part of yet another LAX push. Cozy with AS or not, the market will get more crowded, and UA surely isn't going to blink.
a.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 28):
UA surely isn't going to blink.

Well, perhaps they'll upgauge? Regardless, it will indeed be a crowded market.

-Dave
-Dave
 
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b727fa
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 7:12 pm

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
I hear DL has been trying to put the AVOD 738s on its longer routes, and I sure hope that's the case. I was stuck on the non-AVOD 738 when I took TPA-LAX. At least this means it's no longer a redeye, though.

Easy way to tell if your -800 has AVOD or Global: the 73H "Has" AVOD and the obviously the 738 is then an -800 w/global.
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 7:27 pm

Quoting B727FA (Reply 30):
Easy way to tell if your -800 has AVOD or Global: the 73H "Has" AVOD and the obviously the 738 is then an -800 w/global.

Last year I had an overnight PHX-JFK flight, and it was scheduled to be one of the non-AVOD aircraft, however, in the end it was operated by an AVOD aircraft. Hopefully this is also the case with my upcoming PHX-ATL flight on June 5.

Fact is, you cannot totally rely on the DL website to determine if your 738 flight will have AVOD or not.

[Edited 2013-05-09 12:30:17]
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chrisair
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 7:45 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 31):
Fact is, you cannot totally rely on the DL website to determine if your 738 flight will have AVOD or not.

+1. Had four or five flights scheduled as 73Hs last year--all were swapped for the non AVOD 738s. Really no big deal since they were PHX-SLC runs.
 
yellowtail
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 10:23 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
Delta is making more changes at LA.

All good.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Yes, and I think their recent LAX expansion makes a lot more sense than that haphazard mess of the mid-2000s.

And now we await the rumored more destinations in C. America from LAX (SAL for example)

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Now, with that increased local loyalty and connecting feed, they should be much better positioned to pull off niche routes

I agree.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 28):
It is rumored that AA will be entering the LAX-SEA/PDX markets within a year as part of yet another LAX push.

And this is why DL is acting now. I cannot allow AA to turn LAX into a latin/pacific fortress like MIA. And also the reason why i think that unless they are bleeding lots and lots, DL will stick it out in LAX this time.
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Prost
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 10:59 pm

So United is the largest network carrier in LAX, AA is number two, WN is number three, and DL pulls up number four. The question that I have is with AA and DL beefing up their schedules, who loses? Are these passengers being poached from UA and WN, or are AA and DL stimulating new demand?
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Thu May 09, 2013 11:01 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 34):

DL should be larger than WN in flights and market share. Just FWIW
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DeltaRules
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 12:44 am

DL dropping the gloves with AA over CMH-LAX...saw that coming! It'll be interesting to see how DL's red-eye Eastbound leg does against AA's daylight version.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 32):
+1. Had four or five flights scheduled as 73Hs last year--all were swapped for the non AVOD 738s. Really no big deal since they were PHX-SLC runs.

I can vouch for this as well. 738 and 757 action into CMH may say it has AVOD, but the best way to tell if it actually will is to sit down and see if you have a screen or just a headrest in front of you once you get on the plane.
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enilria
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 2:23 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
Delta is making more changes at LA.

New:
LAX-PDX 4x daily (CR9) starts 9/3

Added
Daily frequency on LAX-CMH(738) and LAX-IND(320). 8/20
2 more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3
LAX-BOS extended to 9/2 (73H)
LAX-MSY getting a 3rd daily flight 9/3(all 319)
LAX-TPA going to a morning flight again. 8/20 and going to 738 from 320)


With all the changes it puts Delta at nearly 120 flights per day.

two things, all this is in the Delta timetable and I tried to post times twice and anet crashed on me. So its someone elses problem now.

Wow, just a whole bunch of AS and AA retaliation routes. I guess they are rolling in cash (as evidence by their new dividend), so they are "investing" some money in retaliation.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
Obviously retaliation at AS for their PDX-ATL announcement!

Exactly...you wonder if that partnership will continue. I think it is more valuable for DL than AS and DL is making waves. AS is too, but I think DL's SEA operation collapses without AS. The reverse is not true.
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 2:29 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 36):
I can vouch for this as well. 738 and 757 action into CMH may say it has AVOD, but the best way to tell if it actually will is to sit down and see if you have a screen or just a headrest in front of you once you get on the plane.

If you want to know in advance, you can manually search every registration on FlightAware until you find your flight.
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BigGSFO
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 3:07 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 34):
The question that I have is with AA and DL beefing up their schedules, who loses?

Nobody does and the consumer wins. As for which airline in LAX will blink first, I honestly think UA is most likely to draw down before AA, DL or WN.

Quoting enilria (Reply 37):
I think DL's SEA operation collapses without AS

I don't think so. Even on the remote chance the relationship between AS and DL crumbles, DL can ramp up whatever domestic feed they deem necessary and would have no problem finding a regional partner to pick up the smaller, more valuable PNW destinations (i.e. PDX, GEG, YVR, etc).

In the end it all depends on what DL wants Seattle to look like. There's this tendency on Anet, especially when discussing DL, that they have to be the biggest (and everyone else has to fail) and that is always the measure of success. DL can be a solid #2 in Seattle and still make it a highly profitable operation. DL will still be the primary international airline and will be tapping those lucrative yields because AS is unlikely to launch Asia or Europe anytime soon. In the end, as for transoceanic marketing and feed, AS indeed needs DL more than the other way around. I suspect the most profitable part about the AS/DL relationship is access to each other's elite passengers (who pay more, show more loyalty) more than connections to Wentachee or Bend.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 3:28 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 39):

In the end it all depends on what DL wants Seattle to look like. There's this tendency on Anet, especially when discussing DL, that they have to be the biggest (and everyone else has to fail) and that is always the measure of success. DL can be a solid #2 in Seattle and still make it a highly profitable operation. DL will still be the primary international airline and will be tapping those lucrative yields because AS is unlikely to launch Asia or Europe anytime soon. In the end, as for transoceanic marketing and feed, AS indeed needs DL more than the other way around. I suspect the most profitable part about the AS/DL relationship is access to each other's elite passengers (who pay more, show more loyalty) more than connections to Wentachee or Bend.

this.

Worst thing happens, Delta has the back up plan to be able to use some of the 739/717 capacity for growth. They also have cap room in the section 1 to add 30 more 76 seaters for DCI feed.
but at this point that is just worse case. As you said, its not like Delta will be growing to some huge hub. Really 2-3 three banks of western US cities (LAX,SAN,SFO,PDX,DEN,LAS,PHX) Limited mid-con (DFW,IAH,ORD) and some trans-con (MCO,MIA,BOS,IAD) would be the basic need.
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chrisair
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 5:42 am

Quoting cschleic (Reply 17):
This article, while somewhat long, has some history and a photo representative of the time....three MD-11's, a 1011, and smaller planes.

Thanks for the article. I really can't remember that LA flight, but I really only started following the happenings at PDX once I moved there in 1998.

Somewhere I have a photo of me sitting on the main gear of the last MD-11 PDX-Asia flight.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 6:00 am

Does it mean that SEA-LAX will retain mainline, or is just simply DL Connection will have 5X daily (give or take) after 9/3?

My guess is that AS is not able or willing to provide additional capacity on the SEA-LAX route to accommodate DL pax.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 6:07 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 39):
I don't think so. Even on the remote chance the relationship between AS and DL crumbles, DL can ramp up whatever domestic feed they deem necessary and would have no problem finding a regional partner to pick up the smaller, more valuable PNW destinations (i.e. PDX, GEG, YVR, etc).

I think DL can survive in SEA without AS, but it won't be nearly as easy. For one thing, they don't have unlimited terminal capacity from what I can tell. AS has a lot of capacity and can move things around (drop a flight in one market so that they can grow in another) without disrupting the flow in SEA. One thing that the PDX additions might be doing for AS is freeing up some SEA capacity for additional flying in these markets that DL is encroaching in.

I really have to wonder if DL is trying to secure lift, trying to hurt AA/UA, or trying to pressure AS into DL's arms? I hope that it's simply a revenue play at SEA to carry people from point A to point B vis SEA without needing to cut a check to AS.

-Dave
-Dave
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 6:27 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 42):

With 5x CR9 total capacity of 380 seats

with the current mix, 1x 738, 1x 757, 1x CR7, its 399 seats. So its a small net decrease with much better connection opportunities. Like SFO/LAS, I would expect a mainline mix in the peak summer months and more DCI in the off season.
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deltal1011man
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 6:38 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 43):

I think DL can survive in SEA without AS, but it won't be nearly as easy. For one thing, they don't have unlimited terminal capacity from what I can tell. AS has a lot of capacity and can move things around (drop a flight in one market so that they can grow in another) without disrupting the flow in SEA. One thing that the PDX additions might be doing for AS is freeing up some SEA capacity for additional flying in these markets that DL is encroaching in.

While S doesn't have really any room to grow, I believe A or B does have some empty space(that Delta uses some of, during peak operations) that Delta could move into.
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Prost
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 6:43 am

Currently DL uses S gates and A & B gates during the midday rush. I have no idea how that will work when UA moves their operations in to the A concourse, however.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 6:45 am

Quoting Prost (Reply 46):

Right, not sure how things will work once SEA gets everyone moved around.
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RWA380
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 9:41 am

Congrats to my hometown airport for once again, landing some new service. There is no stopping the expansion here at PDX. I am sure this signals a more solid economy, and airlines are seeing the NW as an important part of a network.

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 5):
I also hope DL will bring back the evening/late afternoon PDX-HNL service.

That would be too much capacity, HA is upgauging to the 330 soon, and AS flies a daily 738, if DL adds a 757-300 there are too many seats, that is why DL left the route before. Plus if they do add it, I think the late departure is very undesirable, as a whole day is lost by the time you arrive HNL, and the red-eye return is equally undesirable.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 7):
I don't think they ever flew the MD-11s on the PDX-LAX route.

They did not use the M11 to LAX from PDX. DL had a SEA-LAX flown on a L-1011 before the WA merger, and PDX had a flight a day to LAX during the Asia bank of arrivals that were operated by 757's, 72S and 733's.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 10):
An increase in home sales doesn't necessarily mean the economy is picking up and adding jobs. A lot of the sales could be attributed to investors looking for a bargain.

There are few homes available for sale, which is why some homes are selling within hours, as was eluded above. This is a huge indicator of how the economy is doing in the Portland area. Nike has just announced a big expansion plan in Beaverton, and apartment buildings are popping up all over the place when I drive around town. Apartment vacancies are hovering in the 3% range, there are few bargains buying or renting in Portland.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):

Wow. As I alluded to earlier with regards to LAX-PDX, I wonder if this has less to do with AS (as many people are quick to think) and more to do with UA, or VX. Maybe DL thinks it can run UA or VX right off the LAX-SEA/PDX routes?

I think UA will blink first, their token 2-3 RJ service is nothing remarkable, I know SFO will stay as the connecting point to all of California from the NW for UA.

Quoting cschleic (Reply 17):

They did. It was an extension of one of the Asian flights back when they had a mini-Asia hub at PDX. So it represented one-stop service to LAX. Don't recall which city, though. Granted, PDX - LAX mostly was 727 or 757 service. The one flight/day that operated with an MD-11 had higher fares, due to "higher service level" despite being only a two-hour flight. They also flew L-1011's to SLC.

The two cities that received extensions on the M11's once they came along were ATL & CVG, DL did run a L10 to SLC for a short period of time. LAX had one M11 a day that did LAX-HKG n/s but at a later time than the PDX hub, that service started with the L15 and at that time had a fueling stop in ANC.

The service level was enhanced, what you may consider a higher fare, was the fact that L class was not offered on the M11's but K was, so L often times being the lowest priced inventory of that period for DL, then yes, they did not offer their most bargain basement fare on that aircraft, they both were full a lot.

Quoting enilria (Reply 37):
Exactly...you wonder if that partnership will continue. I think it is more valuable for DL than AS and DL is making waves. AS is too, but I think DL's SEA operation collapses without AS.

I have been of the mind that this is not DL & AS fighting, but more of AS & DL co-operating, there is no way that less than a year ago two CEO's got together in SEA with a DL 744 as a backdrop with lots of DL & AS employees to announce a stronger partnership in SEA, only to spend the time since, playing tit for tat on competing routes. There is a reason AS just announced ATL & DFW from PDX, the largest hub cities of their two domestic partners, this is strengthening, not fighting.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 42):
My guess is that AS is not able or willing to provide additional capacity on the SEA-LAX route to accommodate DL pax

With new routes, the current network, and additional places AS wants to fly to, my guess is they don't have the extra planes to add more flights, then DL can control some of the inventory by flying their own aircraft, a nice plus for DL loyal fliers when travelling via SEA or PDX. I think we will see DL & AA connecting passengers via both airports to AS.
Next Flights: PDX-HNL-OGG-LIH-PDX On AS, WP & HA
 
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enilria
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RE: Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes

Fri May 10, 2013 1:41 pm

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 39):
I don't think so. Even on the remote chance the relationship between AS and DL crumbles, DL can ramp up whatever domestic feed they deem necessary and would have no problem finding a regional partner to pick up the smaller, more valuable PNW destinations (i.e. PDX, GEG, YVR, etc).
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 39):
In the end it all depends on what DL wants Seattle to look like. There's this tendency on Anet, especially when discussing DL, that they have to be the biggest (and everyone else has to fail) and that is always the measure of success.
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 39):
DL can be a solid #2 in Seattle

Yes, you can be the #2 carrier in a city and do fine, but not in the way DL is going to be the #2 carrier. There is not a single non-hub domestic route where DL is the #1 carrier from SEA and in most cases DL is flying a vastly inferior schedule to AS. That's fine for feeding Asia, but you will never get business passenger loyalty on domestic routes with that kind of crappy schedule. It works at IAD and JFK because UA is the only player at IAD and at JFK because DL also has LGA for schedule quality. In SEA it won't work any time soon, they need AS. Without loyal domestic business travelers all the domestic routes will be loss-leaders to feed the Asia flights. My guess is that the Asia flights are profitable, but they'd have to be inordinately profitable to also be able to underwrite all the losing domestic feeder flights. AS was providing essentially "free" feed meaning that Delta only needed to pay for the seats they actually used for int'l connectors. Running a whole plane for that is a different level of commitment. If AS dropped DL in the next 24 months it would put DL in a very bad position. If DL has gotten to the point of having 80% of AS's frequency in markets like SEA-SFO by that point then *maybe* DL could splinter off, but AS would be dumb to help them get to that point and should cut them off long before it gets to that point. It's a very interesting situation. It's a bit of a game of chicken. Get some popcorn.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 48):
I have been of the mind that this is not DL & AS fighting, but more of AS & DL co-operating, there is no way that less than a year ago two CEO's got together in SEA with a DL 744 as a backdrop with lots of DL & AS employees to announce a stronger partnership in SEA, only to spend the time since, playing tit for tat on competing routes. There is a reason AS just announced ATL & DFW from PDX, the largest hub cities of their two domestic partners, this is strengthening, not fighting.

Trust me, things are deteriorating.