psa188
Topic Author
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Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 5:23 pm

The New York Times has this article on DL. They point out that "At Kennedy, Delta will move most of its flights to Terminal 4, where it is completing a new extension. There will be more gates and security lanes, a large lounge for frequent fliers and an outdoor observation deck."

The bad news: "[t}he doughnut-shaped Terminal 3, which has a leaky roof and plastic buckets that collect rainwater, will be torn down."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/10/bu...tml?pagewanted=2&_r=0&ref=business
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 5:27 pm

Quoting psa188 (Thread starter):
The bad news: "[t}he doughnut-shaped Terminal 3, which has a leaky roof and plastic buckets that collect rainwater, will be torn down."

The day won't come soon enough. Both for Delta employees at JFK and the passengers.
What gets measured gets done.
 
727LOVER
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 5:29 pm

Is this open yet? Because I see banners here on a.net that seem to indicate that it is open.  
Quoting psa188 (Thread starter):
The bad news: "[t}he doughnut-shaped Terminal 3, which has a leaky roof and plastic buckets that collect rainwater, will be torn down."

Following in the path ofT1,4,5(sorta), 6, 8 & 9

What's left?.....2 and 7?  
Love Trumps Hate
 
psa188
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 5:33 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 1):
The day won't come soon enough. Both for Delta employees at JFK and the passengers.

I'll agree that Terminal 3, in its present condition, is unacceptable. That said, they should demolish the 1970 "worldport" addition and restore the "jet age" saucer to complement the restored TWA terminal on the other side of T4. Go here http://www.savetheworldport.org/ and sign the petition.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 2):
What's left?.....2 and 7?

Of the "old" terminals, yes. From an architectural standpoint the two least inspiring ones.
 
jfk777
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 5:41 pm

With Delta taking over almost the entire east half T4 at JFK what does that leave for all the international airlines that use T4 ? SAA, SWISS, Arik Air, KLM, Avianca, Singapore, El AL, EgyptAir, Emirates and too many others all need their JFK space too or did the PANYNJ just not care about the foreign airlines ?
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 5:46 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 2):
Is this open yet? Because I see banners here on a.net that seem to indicate that it is open.

T4 will be open in 15 days. DL's throwing a lot of buzz into it though, which is why it seems like it's open already.
What gets measured gets done.
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 5:49 pm

A taste of the future (T-4X) can be had in SoHo. It's some sort of mock-up on display.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
727LOVER
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 5:59 pm

Looking at google maps, I see a Term 4W and a Term 4E. Where exactly is this new addition? I don't see any room between 4E and Terminal 5  
Love Trumps Hate
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 6:23 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 7):
Looking at google maps, I see a Term 4W and a Term 4E. Where exactly is this new addition?

It's an extension at the end of 4W. On Google maps, if you keep zooming in until you get the "angle" view, you can see newer photographs that show the new addition under construction. It's the dogleg at the end with approx 9 new gates.
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 6:31 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 7):
Looking at google maps, I see a Term 4W and a Term 4E. Where exactly is this new addition? I don't see any room between 4E and Terminal 5

Terminal 4 West is what was extended. If you're zoom in satellite mode is a ways out (if you can also see T3 as well) then the overlay won't show the expansion. If you zoon in further, there are updated satellite photos showing the construction.

I'd also suggest you visit Delta's Facebook page with the T4 expansion site.

https://www.facebook.com/delta/app_349094998536390

It's not just the expansion of the terminal itself. The entire concourse received a face-lift. Delta added the system's largest SkyClub that will include the new SkyDeck concept. FIS/Customs has been expanded. Expanded TSA facilities. Re-designed and expanded land-side area including curbside check-in and terminal check-in to include a segregated/dedicated Sky Priority check-in lounge and security access. Complete re-design of food/concessions options both land-side and post security. State of the art underground baggage carousel system. Just to name a few improvements.
What gets measured gets done.
 
NYC777
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 6:34 pm

Quoting psa188 (Thread starter):
The bad news: "[t}he doughnut-shaped Terminal 3, which has a leaky roof and plastic buckets that collect rainwater, will be torn down."

How's that bad news?
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FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting nyc777 (Reply 10):

How's that bad news?

Same thing I was thinking. I understand the movement but I don't think anyone will be willing to throw in their own money to support the continued operation (whether as a museum or just a "structure") of T3.
What gets measured gets done.
 
psa188
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 8:03 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 11):
I understand the movement but I don't think anyone will be willing to throw in their own money to support the continued operation (whether as a museum or just a "structure") of T3.

Thank God that sentiment didn't result in the TWA Flight Center being demolished.

"Adaptive reuse" and "sustainability" are all the rage these days. DL and the Port Authority could find a way to make this work if they wanted to.
 
tommy767
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 8:14 pm

Quoting psa188 (Reply 12):
"Adaptive reuse" and "sustainability" are all the rage these days. DL and the Port Authority could find a way to make this work if they wanted to.

Yet the Port Authority isn't creative or resourceful.

I'm definitely angry they are not saving it. You'd figure with DL's constant hard-on with NYC they'd save an architectural masterpiece.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
WesternA318
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 8:41 pm

Quoting psa188 (Thread starter):
The bad news: "[t}he doughnut-shaped Terminal 3, which has a leaky roof and plastic buckets that collect rainwater, will be torn down."
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 1):
The day won't come soon enough. Both for Delta employees at JFK and the passengers.
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 5):
T4 will be open in 15 days. DL's throwing a lot of buzz into it though, which is why it seems like it's open already.

It couldnt have happened sooner. That god awful eyesore and embarrasment to a long dead (and much deserved to be so) airline needs to come down to give DL the room to really be what it should have been all along in NYC. I wont be there on opening day, but I will check out the new terminal on 5/30 and 6/1...cant wait!

Quoting psa188 (Reply 12):
Thank God that sentiment didn't result in the TWA Flight Center being demolished.

"Adaptive reuse" and "sustainability" are all the rage these days. DL and the Port Authority could find a way to make this work if they wanted to.

Not for the amount of money that would be needed to undertake and actually complete such an undertaking. The only reason that saved TWA's T5 was its place on the National Register. The WorldPort was not. Get over it, that relic needs to go and soon.
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nomadic
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 8:45 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 5):
T4 will be open in 15 days. DL's throwing a lot of buzz into it though, which is why it seems like it's open already.[/quot

I passed through Terminal 3 several days ago. I noticed that while not officially open yet, many traditional T3 flights (and some T2) have already moved to T4. Pre departure announcements advised passengers checking in at T3 to take one of the shuttle buses operating continuously between the two buildings. The departure board indicated flights from T4 as operating from "B" gates such as 24B, 25B, 26B etc vs. 23, 24, 25 in the old buildings.

[quote=psa188,reply=3]I'll agree that Terminal 3, in its present condition, is unacceptable. That said, they should demolish the 1970 "worldport" addition and restore the "jet age" saucer to complement the restored TWA terminal on the other side of T4.

I was surprised that T3 was actually in better condition than I expected. There were only a handfull of flights departing mid-day and without the crush of people and the noise, it almost brought back the sedate elegance of the Pan Am days. When T3 comes down it will really make me feel my age...as a pre-teen I watched as it was being built!
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 8:51 pm

Quoting psa188 (Reply 12):
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 13):

So when can Delta expect the check from yall? I would say in the 3-5Billion range.


Congrats, this is why our country is going right to s**t. No one has the sense to get out of the rain, much less somewhat responsible use of money.   


having said that, If i didn't think I would have a real chance of getting something like cancer, I would gladly fly to JFK to help them remove it. Now if they can just hurry up and take T2 with it.

[Edited 2013-05-09 13:53:32]
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
Prost
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 8:54 pm

Is the Saarinen TWA building even being used for anything now? If this architecturally more significant building hasn't found a new use, this can't bode well for the Worldport.
 
bobnwa
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 9:06 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 13):
I'm definitely angry they are not saving it. You'd figure with DL's constant hard-on with NYC they'd save an architectural masterpiece.

Why should Delta Take the heat for not using or improving a falling down terminal that they had nothing to do with? I there are enough people out there that feel like you about this, thn may I suggest you start a grass roots campaign to raise money and then present it ti the airport authority
 
petertenthije
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 9:07 pm

Quoting psa188 (Thread starter):
outdoor observation deck

Is the observation deck airside or landside? Should be an interesting place.
Attamottamotta!
 
WesternA318
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 9:08 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 18):
Why should Delta Take the heat for not using or improving a falling down terminal that they had nothing to do with? I there are enough people out there that feel like you about this, thn may I suggest you start a grass roots campaign to raise money and then present it ti the airport authority

They've tried. and failed so far. That "Save the Worldport" junk is asinine, and by now, its too late.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
michman
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 9:23 pm

Quoting petertenthije (Reply 19):
Is the observation deck airside or landside? Should be an interesting place.

The "Sky Deck" will only be accessible via the Sky Club (airside). So it is not really a public observation deck, but rather a benefit to those with access to the lounge.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 9:37 pm

Quoting michman (Reply 21):
The "Sky Deck" will only be accessible via the Sky Club (airside). So it is not really a public observation deck, but rather a benefit to those with access to the lounge.

  Ahh the perks of being a member flying through JFK! I couldnt think of a better airport for it. I wonder if they'll allow us spotters to take pics from there... 
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EricR
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 10:04 pm

Quoting psa188 (Reply 12):
Thank God that sentiment didn't result in the TWA Flight Center being demolished.

"Adaptive reuse" and "sustainability" are all the rage these days. DL and the Port Authority could find a way to make this work if they wanted to.



I think the only reason why the TWA Flight Center was saved was because B6 was able to build a functional terminal around this structure that better suited their needs. When you look at what B6 did, they didn't even use this structure for their ops. They completely demolished the old TWA airside terminal and built a new terminal from scratch. The TWA flight center is not a functional structure to support today's passenger volumes, thus the reason why it serves no valuable purpose today.

T3 would be in the same situation. It is not very functional for today's traffic volumes. Therefore, a lot of money would need to be reinvested to get it up to today's standards or they could just demolish it and build a more efficient terminal at some point in the future.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 11:00 pm

Quoting nomadic (Reply 15):

You missed the "water-flow architecture"? LOL
What gets measured gets done.
 
goldenstate
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 11:07 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 13):
You'd figure with DL's constant hard-on with NYC they'd save an architectural masterpiece.

There is no architectural masterpiece to save. The Worldport in 2013 is an eyesore and a logistical nightmare. It served Pan Am and Delta faithfully for many years, but it has reached the end of its useful life and frankly should have been demolished at least 10 years ago. It has been a serious constraint to DL's operational efficiency and customer experience in NYC. Demolition and conversion to aircraft parking/staging is the right thing to do.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Thu May 09, 2013 11:41 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 1):
Quoting psa188 (Thread starter):The bad news: "[t}he doughnut-shaped Terminal 3, which has a leaky roof and plastic buckets that collect rainwater, will be torn down."
The day won't come soon enough. Both for Delta employees at JFK and the passengers.

Amen, FlyASAGuy2005! That terminal was woefully out of date 25 years ago. Good riddance.
 
alfa164
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 12:14 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 13):
Yet the Port Authority isn't creative or resourceful.

I'm definitely angry they are not saving it. You'd figure with DL's constant hard-on with NYC they'd save an architectural masterpiece.
Quoting EricR (Reply 23):

T3 would be in the same situation. It is not very functional for today's traffic volumes. Therefore, a lot of money would need to be reinvested to get it up to today's standards or they could just demolish it and build a more efficient terminal at some point in the future.

Don't confuse the original Terminal 3 "saucer" with the convoluted "worldport" addition that was attached to it. The original terminal was - and could again be - an elegant, striking, functional building; it would be perfect if used exclusively for DL's transcontinantel (i.e., JFK-LAX, -SFO, -SEA, and -SAN) flights.

These just happen to be routes where DL is trying to differentiate itself from its competition. What could be better than basing this new premium product in an iconic, dedicated terminal haht recalls the "golden age" of aviation? I think DL is missing a great opportunity.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 12:38 am

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 27):
Don't confuse the original Terminal 3 "saucer" with the convoluted "worldport" addition that was attached to it. The original terminal was - and could again be - an elegant, striking, functional building; it would be perfect if used exclusively for DL's transcontinantel (i.e., JFK-LAX, -SFO, -SEA, and -SAN) flights.

These just happen to be routes where DL is trying to differentiate itself from its competition. What could be better than basing this new premium product in an iconic, dedicated terminal haht recalls the "golden age" of aviation? I think DL is missing a great opportunity.

The premium transcon passengers donbt get nostaligc over minutae like that. They want efficiency and speed over anything, and the new terminal design caters to that, as well as the throngs of Int'l and domestic connecting pax flying all over thee world. The new terminal is more of a "WorldPort" IMHO than that beastly monstrosity PA built.
Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
 
DeltaRules
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 12:55 am

Quoting psa188 (Reply 12):
"Adaptive reuse" and "sustainability" are all the rage these days. DL and the Port Authority could find a way to make this work if they wanted to.
Quoting alfa164 (Reply 27):
Don't confuse the original Terminal 3 "saucer" with the convoluted "worldport" addition that was attached to it. The original terminal was - and could again be - an elegant, striking, functional building; it would be perfect if used exclusively for DL's transcontinantel (i.e., JFK-LAX, -SFO, -SEA, and -SAN) flights.

Would there be/have been any way to convert the saucer to serve RJ traffic? I'd think that being able to give the flying saucer another chance to serve its original purpose and let people walk out under the overhang would be a little better than that mess they have at Gates 23-25 in T2.

On that note, how many RJs could realistically fit under the umbrella?
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Prost
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 12:56 am

Terminal 4 is going to be extended further to handle all of the RJ traffic.

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1882

[Edited 2013-05-09 17:59:41]
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 1:03 am

I was in T3 last week. The saucer is the worst part with leaks and such. Lack of maintenance over the past 5 years as they knew the new terminal was coming.

Rest of the terminal (the 1970s addition) was fine. The back part looked like a shopping mall without windows.

I understand the customs area is ugly.

Also, since they redid the security checkpoint around 5 years ago, they cut off the complete circular flow that the terminal was all about. You can only access the 1970s addition via one side which doesnt work well.

I suppose the whole terminal was workable with a major rehab.

Could have filled in the central part (roadway) with one giant checkin and security checkpoint by reconfiguring the roadway.

Truth is, it was cheaper and easier to tag onto T4.

They got a huge terminal by adding on a scant 9 gates. Pay for 9 gates get the checkin area, customs area, baggage claim, etc...why build your own terminal like AA and spend money duplicating that on the T3 site
 
rwy04lga
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 1:15 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 29):
Would there be/have been any way to convert the saucer to serve RJ traffic? I'd think that being able to give the flying saucer another chance to serve its original purpose and let people walk out under the overhang would be a little better than that mess they have at Gates 23-25 in T2.

On that note, how many RJs could realistically fit under the umbrella?

Here we go with that again. Been there, done that.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
luckyone
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 1:20 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 23):
T3 would be in the same situation. It is not very functional for today's traffic volumes. Therefore, a lot of money would need to be reinvested to get it up to today's standards or they could just demolish it and build a more efficient terminal at some point in the future.
Quoting goldenstate (Reply 25):
There is no architectural masterpiece to save.

I must agree. In what looks like it will be my one and only trip through the Worldport/T3 in March of this year I was completely underwhelmed and unimpressed. The actually circular/rotunda area almost seems incidental to the terminal. And it's quite small--the atrium of my local high school felt bigger. If I hadn't have made a point to actually step foot in it, I wouldn't have needed to. It is that unnecessary and ill-suited to anything resembling the needs of a modern terminal.

As for a shrine, don't we have enough things to spend our money on that people can actually use? Especially in a time of tight budgets. In a place where real estate is a premium? I see no point in having my airport fees increase to keep a 50 year old, dysfunctional building standing, just to serve as a glorified hallway. People are busy enough and pressed for time at the airport anywhere, and throw New Yorkers into the mix...in short, not many people are likely to stand around gawking at a dilapidated structure.

Pan Am is dead folks, and it died because it was lousy at making money. Enjoy the memories, but the rest of us don't need to pay for them.
 
PGNCS
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 1:41 am

Quoting psa188 (Reply 12):
"Adaptive reuse" and "sustainability" are all the rage these days. DL and the Port Authority could find a way to make this work if they wanted to.

But they don't want to because it is a totally outmoded and unsuitable structure for current needs.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 18):
Why should Delta Take the heat for not using or improving a falling down terminal that they had nothing to do with?

Excellent and accurate point.

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 29):
Would there be/have been any way to convert the saucer to serve RJ traffic?

Sure, but why? It would result in less space for what they actually need for their operation.

Quoting luckyone (Reply 33):
I must agree. In what looks like it will be my one and only trip through the Worldport/T3 in March of this year I was completely underwhelmed and unimpressed. The actually circular/rotunda area almost seems incidental to the terminal. And it's quite small--the atrium of my local high school felt bigger. If I hadn't have made a point to actually step foot in it, I wouldn't have needed to. It is that unnecessary and ill-suited to anything resembling the needs of a modern terminal.

Correct on all accounts. luckyone. I can't wait for my for my first trip through JFK after the monstrosity is demolished. I might actually bid a JFK trip for once just to see it, in fact.
 
WesternA318
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 2:23 am

Quoting luckyone (Reply 33):
As for a shrine, don't we have enough things to spend our money on that people can actually use? Especially in a time of tight budgets. In a place where real estate is a premium? I see no point in having my airport fees increase to keep a 50 year old, dysfunctional building standing, just to serve as a glorified hallway. People are busy enough and pressed for time at the airport anywhere, and throw New Yorkers into the mix...in short, not many people are likely to stand around gawking at a dilapidated structure.

Pan Am is dead folks, and it died because it was lousy at making money. Enjoy the memories, but the rest of us don't need to pay for them

Thank you lucky, and welcome to my RU list!
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N867DA
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 3:31 am

Quoting psa188 (Reply 12):
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 11):
I understand the movement but I don't think anyone will be willing to throw in their own money to support the continued operation (whether as a museum or just a "structure") of T3.

Thank God that sentiment didn't result in the TWA Flight Center being demolished.

This type of thinking gave New Yorkers the ugly monstrosity known as Madison Square and Penn "Station". Of course, T3 isn't nearly as grand or remarkable as the old Penn Station, but the point is that there are reasons to keep historical buildings.

That said, I don't know if the WorldPort deserves to be kept. I'm not happy to see it go, but understand it isn't as remarkable as the old Penn Station or JFK Terminal 5.
A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
 
DeltaRules
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 3:38 am

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 32):
Here we go with that again. Been there, done that.
Quoting PGNCS (Reply 34):
Sure, but why? It would result in less space for what they actually need for their operation.

Right, but I wasn't the one that asked last time. Just a question, based upon an observation I made when connecting there over the last couple of years, the fact that the saucer might be able to shield people from the elements as was the original purpose for the design, and without the knowledge of the following:

Quoting Prost (Reply 30):
Terminal 4 is going to be extended further to handle all of the RJ traffic.

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1882

Thanks for the link. Prior to tonight, I was under the impression that RJ operations would be staying in T2, but T4 will handle that as well!
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deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 3:46 am

Quoting EricR (Reply 23):

I think the only reason why the TWA Flight Center was saved was because B6 was able to build a functional terminal around this structure that better suited their needs. When you look at what B6 did, they didn't even use this structure for their ops. They completely demolished the old TWA airside terminal and built a new terminal from scratch. The TWA flight center is not a functional structure to support today's passenger volumes, thus the reason why it serves no valuable purpose today.

and because the government said they had to. B6 would have loved to be able to bring it to the ground.
Now its a empty money pit. Good use of money.  
Quoting alfa164 (Reply 27):

Don't confuse the original Terminal 3 "saucer" with the convoluted "worldport" addition that was attached to it. The original terminal was - and could again be - an elegant, striking, functional building; it would be perfect if used exclusively for DL's transcontinantel (i.e., JFK-LAX, -SFO, -SEA, and -SAN) flights.

but would it justify the cost? it is much cheaper to use T4, which is really just as nice.

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 27):

These just happen to be routes where DL is trying to differentiate itself from its competition. What could be better than basing this new premium product in an iconic, dedicated terminal haht recalls the "golden age" of aviation? I think DL is missing a great opportunity.

Does anyone have any data that suggest Delta should put a ton of money into T3 because people will pay more to use T3 than T8 or T5 (or go to LGA/EWR)?
I mean that is what matters. Its a numbers game, no one really cares about the building. I have yet to hear any large amount of funds to pay for it or any good reason for Delta to save it.
In all honesty T5 should be gone. It has just hurt B6.

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 29):

Would there be/have been any way to convert the saucer to serve RJ traffic? I'd think that being able to give the flying saucer another chance to serve its original purpose and let people walk out under the overhang would be a little better than that mess they have at Gates 23-25 in T2.

T4 is getting a RJ concourse to replace that part of T2

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 31):
why build your own terminal like AA and spend money duplicating that on the T3 site

and even then, I think Delta's projects are going to end up costing more because of how much it cost to build in NYC.

Delta would love nothing more than to build a terminal that has nice room for growth and to be able to house SkyTeam. the T2/3 land area isn't even close to being able to do so. With the three phases Delta will be able to completely move into T4, its likely T1 can be expanded where T2 is to take on a nice chunk of the T4 airlines(along with the idea of SkyTeam moving completely to T4) and then they likelihood of Oneworld all ending up in T8 should give SkyTeam and Delta the majority, if not all of, T4.
Its not ideal, but its basically the best thing Delta could do, and the only thing they could do to get 100% under one roof.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
rwy04lga
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:21 am

RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 4:00 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 37):
Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 32):
Here we go with that again. Been there, done that.

Right, but I wasn't the one that asked last time.

I know, I've been the one espousing that idea for the past couple of years now. Then, in the past year, a famous 'aviator' first acknowledges my idea then claims ownership of it. Again, I don't claim to be the first with the idea, but I'm the first to post the idea on this forum. Regardless, the point/idea is moot. Worldport will become Worldparkinglot.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
panamair
Posts: 3767
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 4:08 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 4):
With Delta taking over almost the entire east half T4 at JFK what does that leave for all the international airlines that use T4 ? SAA, SWISS, Arik Air, KLM, Avianca, Singapore, El AL, EgyptAir, Emirates and too many others all need their JFK space too

Many are gradually moving out or moving over to T4A. EI has already moved to T5. EK uses T4A now, as does SQ. KL is a Skyteam and JV partner with DL so will continue to use the T4B gates. For now LY will also continue to stay put and use T4B since they have their extensive security system in place there already. There will initially be 3 common-use gates on the Delta T4B pier for other carriers (including Delta).
 
deltal1011man
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 6:05 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 40):
Many are gradually moving out or moving over to T4A. EI has already moved to T5. EK uses T4A now, as does SQ. KL is a Skyteam and JV partner with DL so will continue to use the T4B gates. For now LY will also continue to stay put and use T4B since they have their extensive security system in place there already. There will initially be 3 common-use gates on the Delta T4B pier for other carriers (including Delta).

I believe Virgin America is staying on T4B also.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
panamair
Posts: 3767
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 7:23 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 41):
I believe Virgin America is staying on T4B also.

VX already moved to T4A some time ago - around the same time that VS moved and opened a new Clubhouse.
 
AwysBSB
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:58 am

RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 1:53 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 27):
What could be better than basing this new premium product in an iconic, dedicated terminal haht recalls the "golden age" of aviation? I think DL is missing a great opportunity.

Not just DL, but Sky Team is missing the great opportunity, since most of the alliance's members that offer first class product fly out of JFK and there is no dedicated building for that product.
Given that the original T3 "saucer" was projected for a little number of passengers, it requires no significant adaptation for becoming the Sky Team First Class Terminal.
Furthermore, a first class terminal that recalls the "golden age" of aviation, would surely be a great advantage over other first class terminals around the world.
Finally, that is a Sky Team's need, since they have to react to the loss of first class passengers to Star Alliance and to One World.

[Edited 2013-05-10 06:57:48]
 
alfa164
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RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 2:07 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 38):
Does anyone have any data that suggest Delta should put a ton of money into T3 because people will pay more to use T3 than T8 or T5 (or go to LGA/EWR)?
I mean that is what matters. Its a numbers game, no one really cares about the building. I have yet to hear any large amount of funds to pay for it or any good reason for Delta to save it.

Does anyone have any data to suggest that Delta should have put a ton of money into T4 because people will pay more money to use it? I doubt it. Some sound business decisions are made bacause of the experience they provide to your customers; the prestige of being a part of an iconic facility; and the image that creates for the company. Returning T3 to its elegant origins - and its origibal purpose - would qualify for that.

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 43):
Not just DL, but Sky Team is missing the great opportunity, since most of the alliance's members that offer first class product fly out of JFK and there is no dedicated building for that product.
Given that the original T3 "saucer" was projected for a little number of passengers, it requires no significant adaptation for becoming the Sky Team First Class Terminal.
Furthermore, a first class terminal that recalls the "golden age" of aviation, would surely be a great advantage over other first class terminals around the world.
Finally, that is a Sky Team's need, since they have to react to the loss of first class passengers to Star Alliance and to One World.

[   
 
PanAm1971
Posts: 440
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:28 am

RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 2:08 pm

After many years of purposeful neglect-Delta says the orginal Worldport saucer must be torn down. Surprise. I think this attempt to destroy a piece of New York and aviation history should be prevented. While the addition to the Worldport certainly should be torn down-the saucer should remain. The comments from Delta employees and supporters shows the utter contempt they have for what is actually an important aviation landmark. Hopefully, wiser heads will prevail and the destruction will be prevented.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 2:16 pm

Quoting PanAm1971 (Reply 45):

Thank goodness it will not. T4 will open and T3 will be bulldozed. I just wish they had some sort of raffle to those that wanted to do it. The funds raised could go to a TRUE worthy cause that Delta supports such as Habitat or the BCRF or something else of the sort.
What gets measured gets done.
 
alfa164
Posts: 1471
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 3:25 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 46):
Thank goodness it will not. T4 will open and T3 will be bulldozed. I just wish they had some sort of raffle to those that wanted to do it. The funds raised could go to a TRUE worthy cause that Delta supports such as Habitat or the BCRF or something else of the sort.

Yeah... and while we're at it, let's tear down the Washington Monument - it's just a useless pile of rocks. A cell phone tower would be much more practical there.

And why hasn't someone bulldozed Moab Mational Monument and put in some housing development? We all need houses more than monuments! It's time to get those bulldozers moving... isn't it...???
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 4:01 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 31):

Rest of the terminal (the 1970s addition) was fine. The back part looked like a shopping mall without windows.

There are two parts. One that looks like a green trailer that is, to my understanding ISN'T being bulldozed but the saucer is. That green trailer is the worst. It smells like a Wendy's all the time and they have all those temporary walkways to a parking lot full of RJs.

Then there is the other part with all the Rolex clock adverts, low ceilings, and has a "maze" type feel. I actually think that part is pretty cool because I feel like I'm flying Pan Am whenever I walk through those hallways.

Bottom line, as much as I like DL I just feel getting rid of the Saucer part is a major mistake -- especially since they saved T-5.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
cokepopper
Posts: 392
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 9:44 pm

RE: Delta Views New Terminal As Symbol Of Modern Age O

Fri May 10, 2013 4:22 pm

The emotions are running into hysteria here lol....As many have pointed out, Just who is suppose to
keep funding the "Saucer"? Delta? Taxpayers? I mean really, comparing it to the Washington Monument?
Many of us can't wait to see it go. May 24th is almost here, and our "new home" can't come soon enough.
Since we bought the thing in '91 is has been a problem as some mentioned here. Time to let it go, I know many already have. Again, who is suppose to pay for it? Our toll's here are high enough paying for NON road related work. Enough is enough, Really? just so someone can "feel good" ?

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