iowaman
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What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Mon May 13, 2013 3:43 pm

Due to length of part 2, please continue the discussion here. Previous thread: What's Going On In CLE - Part 2 (by MasseyBrown Jan 24 2013 in Civil Aviation)
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Tue May 14, 2013 3:27 pm

View from the new control tower, recently topped out:


View from the new control tower.


[Edited 2013-05-14 08:29:00]
 
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mbm3
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Tue May 14, 2013 4:24 pm

Wow, I knew it was tall based on my drive bys to FedEx but I did not realize it had such a great perspective on the region. Cool shot!
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cle757
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Thu May 16, 2013 1:53 am

UA is still playing with CLE summer schedule, some days they have 5 LAX (even the 757-300 shows up sometimes) sometimes 2 SEA ( sometimes a 757)..probably others,
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masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Thu May 16, 2013 2:23 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 3):
UA is still playing with CLE summer schedule,

As you note, CLE-LAX on June 6th shows a 753, three 739s, and a 738. (The 753 is a 6 A.M. departure; nobody's connecting on that one.) Maybe it's related to a couple of major movies being filmed in CLE in May-June.

I wonder if they're going to blow up East 9th Street again.   
 
N766UA
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Thu May 16, 2013 2:44 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
I wonder if they're going to blow up East 9th Street again.

How could you tell if they did?
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fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Thu May 16, 2013 3:02 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
I wonder if they're going to blow up East 9th Street again.

Looks like the near west side shoreway mostly. Impressive impact if that is what they added a 200+ pax 753 for. Flying on the day after on a 739 CLE>LAX.

Updated: Cleveland’s role in Marvel Studios’ Captain America:The Winter Soldier bring
important economic benefits and some temporary alternate traffic patterns too.

CLEVELAND – This spring, Cleveland will once again be buzzing with excitement as it hosts super heroes and film crews. Partnering with the production company and the Greater Cleveland Film Commission on this film will help position Cleveland to become a location destination for the movie industry and in turn, support local businesses and create jobs for Cleveland area residents. But transforming the streets into a movie set will require some temporatry road closures and alternate routes for motorists and pedestrians from May 18 through June 28, 2013 (weather permitting).

http://clevelandfilm.com/blog2/?cat=3
 
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antoniemey
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 17, 2013 1:24 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
I wonder if they're going to blow up East 9th Street again.

They probably will.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 5):
How could you tell if they did?

E 9th doesn't (usually) have rubble and burning cars strewn across it.
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freeze3192
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 17, 2013 2:20 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 1):

Can you tell me what is on top of the tower? It looks like there is a Christmas tree sitting at the top.
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fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 17, 2013 12:18 pm

When will the new tower be in service? What will they do with the old tower?

I know I have brought this up before, but the TSA security areas are way undersized for peak times. Monday was unbelievable at all 3 points at 7:30AM. 30 min wait in the priority line at B. Somehow, they need to add some space to those areas to process more people faster. There is some space above the taxi stand/baggage claim area in the C area at least. If CLE is really going to see 10+% more people in 2013 as it has in Q1, summer is going to be a nightmare.

I see temporary construction offices being setup near the long term parking garage. Any idea what project those are for?
 
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 17, 2013 2:34 pm

Quoting freeze3192 (Reply 8):
Can you tell me what is on top of the tower? It looks like there is a Christmas tree sitting at the top.

Wish I could. I live in Washington. Just guessing - it might be elevator machinery or antenna foundations.

TSA lines: Bad, but good news. It means O&D is up. Early morning seems to be a bad time at lots of hub airports. A surge of O&D comes in the AM, later times of day have a higher percentage of connecting traffic, which (obviously) doesn't go through the TSA lines.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 17, 2013 2:45 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 9):
When will the new tower be in service? What will they do with the old tower?

Maybe they can dismantle that tower and move it to TOL since we've been waiting for one for what seems 25 years now....
 
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 17, 2013 3:11 pm

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 11):
Maybe they can dismantle that tower and move it to TOL since we've been waiting for one for what seems 25 years now....

Bad news. The CLE TRACON will expand to include Youngstown, Akron/Canton, and Mansfield airports. I understand that Toledo will (at some point) be consolidated with DTW TRACON. If you're looking solely at a radar scope, it doesn't matter where the scope is located.

Edit: I just checked and TOL will be consolidated with CLE, not DTW. Tower and TRACON (colocated but not the same thing) are scheduled to open in Fall, 2014.

[Edited 2013-05-17 08:24:59]
 
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 17, 2013 3:57 pm

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 7):
E 9th doesn't (usually) have rubble and burning cars strewn across it.

You're dead wrong about the rubble part, it always has rubble, but I'll give you burning cars.

LOL the city's got one road and it's a freakin' disaster.
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ouboy79
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 17, 2013 4:31 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 12):
Bad news. The CLE TRACON will expand to include Youngstown, Akron/Canton, and Mansfield airports. I understand that Toledo will (at some point) be consolidated with DTW TRACON. If you're looking solely at a radar scope, it doesn't matter where the scope is located.

Edit: I just checked and TOL will be consolidated with CLE, not DTW. Tower and TRACON (colocated but not the same thing) are scheduled to open in Fall, 2014.

Post a link to the source? I know they were talking about it before but the plan was scrubbed. Want to make sure its an actual current plan and not the old one you are still referencing.
 
flyinryan99
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 17, 2013 6:35 pm

First, I was speaking of the tower only...not the TRACON for TOL...A new tower is needed as the current one still can't see the end of runway 7. Second, while it is scheduled to do what you are saying to, doesn't mean it is going to happen. Logistics still have to be figured out with the 180th ANG on ready alert status. Right now, they have the ability to be off the ground in minimal time and cannot wait on a release. This has been brought up numerous times and to my knowledge (very recent), nothing has changed or worked out. Also, CLE doesn't make sense, it should go to DTW as we handle most overflights into Detroit satellites. Then again, FAA isn't ever really about making sense lately.
 
point2point
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 17, 2013 7:10 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 1):
View from the new control tower, recently topped out:

Hey..... I'm not from Cleveland, but have traveled through there a few times, both by air and car, and I guess that there's some bashing of the city going on (what's a city without some bashing, eh?) .... but I find that with that picture of the skyline..... I have to say that I've found that Cleveland does have a sense of majesty....... and I've only experienced a great city there during my travels there. Nice shot of the city.......

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 15):
I was speaking of the tower only

I think that control towers at airports are probably pretty easily done, and are (just my thinking out loud here) among the lesser expensive items for an airport to replace. I think that it's important for a control tower at an airport be able to see all of the airfield. I've read that even DEN is going to eventually be replacing (sometime in a long-term future) their existing control tower (already among the tallest and newest) at some point as well as more runways and concourses will be added with time.

 
 
ouboy79
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 17, 2013 7:50 pm

Quoting point2point (Reply 16):
I think that control towers at airports are probably pretty easily done, and are (just my thinking out loud here) among the lesser expensive items for an airport to replace. I think that it's important for a control tower at an airport be able to see all of the airfield. I've read that even DEN is going to eventually be replacing (sometime in a long-term future) their existing control tower (already among the tallest and newest) at some point as well as more runways and concourses will be added with time.

If memory serves correctly, TOL has been trying for about 20 years to get the tower replaced. The Port Authority even proposed paying for it themselves and leasing it to the FAA and it was rejected. So not sure how easy it actually is suppose to be. LOL
 
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 17, 2013 8:45 pm

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 17):
So not sure how easy it actually is suppose to be. LOL

I guess in this sense with TOL you are correct..... but airport towers..... really? How difficult or costly can it be to build one? The structure itself is really nothing, just some elevation and windows on top and a way to get up there ...... and then the avionics are needed anyway, so.....???


 
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Sat May 18, 2013 4:58 am

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 14):
Post a link to the source? I know they were talking about it before but the plan was scrubbed.

The FAA's Tracon Consolidation Plan was "delayed" because of concerns regarding the NYC area. This plan included CLE Tracon takng over all Ohio airports north of Columbus and Columbus taking everything in the south, except CVG, which isn't in Ohio. Despite the Plan's delay, new tracon construction was approved for Cleveland and Kalamazoo; both facilities are sized to support the consolidation. My understanding from knowledgeable people is that if the revised plan for NYC gets a green light (from Congress among others) there will be procedural tests in the new CLE and AZO Tracons. Effectively, the consolidation for those two locations will be implemented. The new NYC plan is due for public release sometime this month.

Please excuse the weasel-wording 'knowledgeable people'. The CLE consolidation is not a done deal, but it's close. Plan adjustments are always possible. It's also worth noting that previous FAA tracon consolidations in NoCal and Georgia were financial disasters. They think they have fixed it.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Mon May 20, 2013 6:13 am

Thursday UA actually scheduled a widebody on IAH-CLE-IAH. It was a 762 subbing for a what is a 735 most days. I don't know if the 762 was the only spare available or if there was some extraordinary load that required it, nevertheless it came and went on schedule.
 
greenair727
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Mon May 20, 2013 12:17 pm

^ was it full (in at least one direction)?
 
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mbm3
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Mon May 20, 2013 1:47 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 20):

Thursday UA actually scheduled a widebody on IAH-CLE-IAH. It was a 762 subbing for a what is a 735 most days. I don't know if the 762 was the only spare available or if there was some extraordinary load that required it, nevertheless it came and went on schedule.

Me thinks it has to do with the two movies filming in town at the moment.
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highflier92660
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Mon May 20, 2013 4:01 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
I wonder if they're going to blow up East 9th street again.

Of note on our last trip through downtown, we counted "zero" people dressed in suits and ties from Public Square to East 9th via Euclid. It was somewhat reminiscent when Chevy Chase and his family in "Vacation" ended up on the wrong side of town and he rolled down the window and quipped, "we're not from around here. "

Interestingly during my stay on the 9th floor of the Sheraton Hopkins, I counted five United mainline aircraft along the C Concourse and two mainline aircraft that RON at the far side of the banjo-wing; a total of six various series Boeing 737s and an A320. The morning departure bank made Hopkins briefly resemble an earlier age before regional jets became the dominant aircraft. And those heavily loaded CFM-equipped Boeing 739s bound for the west coast do use all but a thousand feet of runway 24L-6R.

The new taller and repositioned control tower looks impressive!

[Edited 2013-05-20 09:30:03]
 
N766UA
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Mon May 20, 2013 7:46 pm

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 22):
Me thinks it has to do with the two movies filming in town at the moment.

No, it was just outsized COMAT that had to be transported up from Houston. Nothing to do with movies.

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 23):
Of note on our last trip through downtown, we counted "zero" people dressed in suits and ties from Public Square to East 9th via Euclid.

That's Cleveland! I used to work downtown, and it was not uncommon for me to encounter, during my 3 block walk to the building, exactly ZERO other people. At 830AM! Such a weird place.

[Edited 2013-05-20 12:48:43]
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masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Tue May 21, 2013 5:32 am

Thanks for the compliment, Highflier. Maybe I should remind people that I have a little bit of government access but NO inside information from any airline; I just read and try to make sense of stuff for the fun of it

Is that what my motto means? I guess my Latin isn't as good as I thought. I thought it meant 'Beware lest the bastards vex you,' correct Latin for that doggerel 'Illegitimi non carborundum est', which sounds funnier but isn't Latin at all.

And, while I'm at it, thanks to N766UA for the 762 explanation.
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Tue May 21, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting N766UA (Reply 24):
That's Cleveland! I used to work downtown, and it was not uncommon for me to encounter, during my 3 block walk to the building, exactly ZERO other people. At 830AM! Such a weird place.

With a 96.3% occupancy rate for residential and just below 80% for office after a major corporation loss to suburbs, not too worried since my wife reports riding on loaded buses to her work at Cleveland Clinic via Public Square.

Source:http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20130425/FREE/130429883

So back to any CLE airline/airport news?
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Tue May 21, 2013 5:15 pm

 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Sat May 25, 2013 7:47 pm

Summer UA schedule shows a morning Q400 to MCI, replacing an ERJ. It adds about a half hour to a two hour trip. I wonder if the equipment choice was traffic driven. If it was a question of ERJ availability, I'm surprised they didn't put the Q4 on CLE-STL.
 
fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Sun May 26, 2013 11:16 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 30):
Summer UA schedule shows a morning Q400 to MCI, replacing an ERJ. It adds about a half hour to a two hour trip. I wonder if the equipment choice was traffic driven. If it was a question of ERJ availability, I'm surprised they didn't put the Q4 on CLE-STL.

That's a long time in prop! The UA schedulers are having fun this summer. I know we have talked a lot about UA putting ER170 on the CLE>IAH route and everyone was not happy. I saw a ER170 on EWR>ORD the other day so don't feel bad CLE!

With essentially 70 ER175's coming on in the next 2 years, what will the impact be to CLE? Have to figure that will take out at least (?) 100 ER145's. Fewer flights w/same capacity? Hope they can at least find it in their hearts to take off the CRJ's on CLE>ORD!

Anyone figured out what the construction trailers are for in the long term parking lot?

What is the demolition in the lot near the A gates destined for?
 
greenair727
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Sun May 26, 2013 11:22 am

^ Could it be the long-awaited new FIS?
 
swacle
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Sun May 26, 2013 3:16 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 31):
Anyone figured out what the construction trailers are for in the long term parking lot?

What is the demolition in the lot near the A gates destined for?

I have not been able to find plans online, but the construction equipment in long term parking is for parking "upgrades." As I understand it, the employee lot by the now demolished AA facility will become a public surface lot (currently paving the new lot) and the old Long Term garage next to the Sheraton will be demolished and replaced (?) with a new parking structure/lot.

Don
Aircraft Flown: SF3 DH8 DH4 328 ERJ CRJ CR7 CR9 E70 E75 D9S M80 712 72S 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 739ER 752 318 319 32
 
fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Sun May 26, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting swacle (Reply 33):
I have not been able to find plans online, but the construction equipment in long term parking is for parking "upgrades." As I understand it, the employee lot by the now demolished AA facility will become a public surface lot (currently paving the new lot) and the old Long Term garage next to the Sheraton will be demolished and replaced (?) with a new parking structure/lot.

A while back, the Sheraton was to be bought by CLE and also torn town w/a big long term lot replacing both structures. Not sure if that ever went through. Hard to believe that the city has not announced the project(s).

On the scheduling side, CR7's now on CLE>MSP for DL vs. CR2's.
 
highflier92660
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Sun May 26, 2013 7:52 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 34):
A while back, the Sheraton was to be bought be CLE and also torn w/a big long term lot replacing both structures.

I had the opportunity of staying at the Sheraton Hopkins during part of my last CLE visit a few weeks back. When I inquired about the possibility of the hotel being torn down and/or relocated I got incredulous expressions and a firm "no, we're not going anywhere" from all the desk emplyees including the manager.

As for the airport parking garage located a short distance from the Sheraton, it's fate does apparently include an appointment with a wrecking ball. When I walked over from the terminal I noted it was in disrepair with the elevators shut down.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Mon May 27, 2013 2:00 am

A helpful hint from somebody who knows told me the Q400 on the morning CLE-MCI is a maintenance rotation, getting the IAD/EWR based Q400s to their maint. base in MCI.
 
fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Wed May 29, 2013 2:25 pm

 
highflier92660
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Wed May 29, 2013 4:38 pm

That airport parking article in the PD contains an embarrassment of riches; a "temporary" parking structure still going strong in its fifth decade of operation. Using that Cleveland logic you'd think the Romans originally built the Coliseum believing it would be good for a few years until the next emperor tore it down and built a larger one with a retractable roof. And what about the description of a 1,000 space surface replacement lot being part of a Cleveland Hopkins parking improvement package? Now in the dead of a Cleveland winter, Grannie Grunts can plow through the elements the same way the old Kardiac Kids and Brian Sipe played through the snow and winds howling off Lake Erie in the old Municipal Stadium.

Me thinks reducing the 7,100 parking spaces to 5,500 is a thinly veiled attempt to raise the parking rates.
 
fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Wed May 29, 2013 5:06 pm

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 36):
Me thinks reducing the 7,100 parking spaces to 5,500 is a thinly veiled attempt to raise the parking rates.

Everyone on Snow Rd. rejoices as their rates can go up also.

This solution is a significant disappointment for CLE. They requested a replacement garage and to purchase the hotel and further expand onsite parking to increase revenue, decrease airline fees, and provide more convenient parking for travelers.
Now, all they have done is line the pockets of the Snow Rd. parking garages. Pretty short sighted and certainly not part of any "Master Plan".

I'm not sure of the politics behind this one but CLE just gave away parkers and revenue. Ricky won't be moving the hotel by the terminal as highlighted in the plan nor will he be placing it next to the "onsite gas station" that they just can't seem to get built by the rental return area after 5 years of trying. Perhaps Ricky is out of jet fuel himself. Oh wait, we have new terrazzo I forgot that "win".
 
steeler83
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Wed May 29, 2013 8:10 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 29):
Fewer flights w/same capacity? Hope they can at least find it in their hearts to take off the CRJ's on CLE>ORD!

I don't care what anyone thinks. IMO, that is a huge middle finger to the residents of CLE, especially if they wish to go to Chicago! Hub-to-hub flying on UA, and that's how you serve CLE? If there are any regional flights they should be at least CR7s or E70/75 equipment...

WN flies to MDW from CLE, don't they? If I lived there, I'd say screw UA...
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ncflyer
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Thu May 30, 2013 12:02 am

Yep, more middle fingers: no international service, no talk of it. Severe under capacity to major business centers leading to a hidden tax on all Clevelanders in the form of ridiculous airfares. I have to go to Boston in 2 weeks, the CLE fare is $100 higher than DTW and CVG, $300 higher than CAK, and $400 higher than PIT. Guess which airport I'm not flying from?

What galls me the most is that the Cleveland Growth Association is spending it's money to save the hub? That I don't understand.

I hope Ricky isn't stuck in the politics of a city run airport, that would be unfortunate. . . . .
 
steeler83
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Thu May 30, 2013 1:19 am

Quoting ncflyer (Reply 39):
What galls me the most is that the Cleveland Growth Association is spending it's money to save the hub?

Considering how UA is treating CLE, I'd say UA can go screw itself. Top business markets need capacity, especially business/first class capacity. CRJs don't have any, and the CR7/9/E70/75 equipment only have so many first class seats available. They need a mix of A320/737 equipment if anything. What about CLE-ORD/DEN/HOU/LAX/SFO? I would think that all of these would demand such service if not even 757/A321 equipment.

Even US flies a good mix of mainline equipment to PHL and CLT from PIT, and I anticipate things changing for the better once the AA/US merger goes through.
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flight152
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Thu May 30, 2013 1:58 am

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 40):
Considering how UA is treating CLE, I'd say UA can go screw itself. Top business markets need capacity, especially business/first class capacity

So just because UA in some cases doesn't offer enough capacity and first class seats for your liking UA should go "screw" themselves? I'm pretty sure Cleveland is better off with their current level of service then nothing at all.

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 40):
What about CLE-ORD/DEN/HOU/LAX/SFO?

With the exception of flights to O'Hare (which has hourly service from CLE and one or two mainline flights) most of those cities has mainline service from Cleveland. LAX and SFO is all mainline. Not sure why you'd think CLE would have service to HOU.
 
joeman
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Thu May 30, 2013 2:47 am

Quoting flight152 (Reply 41):
I'm pretty sure Cleveland is better off with their current level of service then nothing at all.

Maybe better than nothing at all. The current level of service coupled with the numerous complaints of price gouging detailed above and in thread 1 and documented evidence of greater reliance on surrounding airports as a result is more than enough reason to be dissatisfied.
 
masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Thu May 30, 2013 5:11 am

To be fair to UA, they are not picking on CLE. Or maybe it would be better said: they are not picking ONLY on CLE. Their fleet is a mess with a zillion configurations and shortages of the larger RJs. They can't put out a consistent product. Pilot integration is still an open item. The Colgan bankruptcy disrupted the Connection operation - it's only now recovering. Boeing's 787 fiasco still reverberates.

Lest CLE feel too special, IAD users also have major gripes about getting the worst of the fleet assigned to their routes, especially transAtlantic.
 
fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Thu May 30, 2013 12:10 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 43):
They can't put out a consistent product.

Or provide consistent service with soooo many regional carriers it also makes it hard to provide service with swaps, a/c, crew, etc. One good thing about CO and XJ was they had a very consistent product. UA must get rid of some of the regional providers to help themselves out since they have so many regional flights. Here's to hoping the (up to) 110 ER175's due in 2014-2015 help this out.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 43):
Lest CLE feel too special, IAD users also have major gripes about getting the worst of the fleet assigned to their routes, especially transAtlantic.

IAD does have some real gripes. As mentioned before, so does EWR as you even see RJ's on the ORD>EWR route which is amazing.

Upon further thinking about the parking garage, I just can't figure out how the ROI on putting up a new structure was not there. I realize that you can get 1,000 spots of revenue for the $24mm they plan on spending. With what looks like a double digit increase in passenger traffic at CLE, it even makes the decision more confusing not to put up a bigger parking structure to make the airport more convenient to travelers and competitive airports.
 
steeler83
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Fri May 31, 2013 12:01 am

Quoting flight152 (Reply 41):
So just because UA in some cases doesn't offer enough capacity and first class seats for your liking UA should go "screw" themselves? I'm pretty sure Cleveland is better off with their current level of service then nothing at all.

As someone who watched a certain airline dismantle a hub at his hometown, yes. By "screwing" itself, I mean dropping the hub. Besides, for a while that was my opinion about US. For now, I do have to say PIT is probably better off. Other airlines came in, drove down fares and boosted local traffic. Maybe someone will do the same with CLE in the coming years...

Quoting flight152 (Reply 41):
LAX and SFO is all mainline. Not sure why you'd think CLE would have service to HOU.

I was actually referring to IAH. My bad...

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 44):
IAD does have some real gripes. As mentioned before, so does EWR as you even see RJ's on the ORD>EWR route which is amazing.

Wow... Did not realize that. That, to me, should see nothing but mainline. After reading the last few posts, it is very clear that UA is poorly managed -- equipment issues aside...
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fun2fly
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:36 pm

CLE has about half the spots of PIT, CMH, and IND per the article below. Lots of lost revenue.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...ncart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2
 
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STT757
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:57 pm

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 45):
Wow... Did not realize that. That, to me, should see nothing but mainline. After reading the last few posts, it is very clear that UA is poorly managed -- equipment issues aside...

EWR-ORD is 16 daily, 5 of those are 70 seat ERJ-170s. The rest are a combination of A319s, A320s, 737s and 757s. I think those ERJ-170s are repositioning flights.
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masseybrown
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:53 pm

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 46):
CLE has about half the spots of PIT, CMH, and IND per the article below. Lots of lost revenue.

Conversely, I wonder if those airports are over-supplied with parking. Just a thought.  

My guess is the airport is trying to avoid those capital expenses that come far in advance of revenue, as would fronting the construction costs of an xxx million dollar multi-story lot - at least until they can pay down some debt. The airport's debt is about $900 million - an astonishing sum, considering the age of the facilities.

The snow issue is real, but peak demand doesn't come in the snowiest part of the winter. Then, too, those off-airport lots pay taxes.
 
N766UA
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RE: What's Going On In CLE - Part 3

Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:45 pm

CLE-AUS starts in September with a CR7. A new route and it's NOT an ERJ!
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