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hummingbird
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Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Tue May 14, 2013 8:52 pm

Welcome Guys,
This time we will feature Copa Airlines of Panama, who have served KIN since 1969..

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x315/yardieindubai/JM%20FAs/copa_airlines_zps70132306.jpg

Copa was established in 1947 by a group of Panamanian investors and Pan American World Airways, which provided technical and economic assistance as well as capital. Initially, Copa served three domestic destinations in Panama with a fleet of three Douglas C-47 aircraft. In the 1960s, Copa began its international service with three weekly flights to cities in Costa Rica, Jamaica and Colombia using a small fleet of Avro 748s and Electra 188s. In 1971, Pan American World Airways sold its stake in Copa to a group of Panamanian investors who retained control of the airline until 1986. During the 1980s, Copa suspended its domestic service to focus on international flights.

In 1986, CIASA purchased 99% of Copa, which was controlled by the group of Panamanian shareholders who currently control CIASA. From 1992 until 1998, Copa was a part of a commercial alliance with Grupo TACA's network of Central American airline carriers. In 1997, together with Grupo TACA, Copa entered into a strategic alliance with American Airlines. After a year our alliance with American Airlines was terminated by mutual consent.



On May 6, 1998, Copa Holdings, the holding company for Copa and related companies was incorporated as a sociedad anónima under the laws of Panama to facilitate the sale by CIASA of a 49% stake in Copa Holdings to Continental. In connection with Continental's investment, we entered into an extensive alliance agreement with Continental providing for code-sharing, joint marketing, technical exchanges and other cooperative initiatives between the airlines. At the time of our initial public offering in December 2005, Continental reduced its ownership of our total capital stock from 49% to approximately 27.3%. In a follow-on offering in June 2006, Continental further reduced its ownership of our total capital stock from 27.3% to 10.0%. In May 2008, Continental sold its remaining shares in the public market.

Since 1998, we have grown and modernized our fleet while improving customer service and reliability. Copa has expanded its fleet from 13 aircraft to 82 aircraft. In 1999, we received our first Boeing 737-700s, in 2003 we received our first Boeing 737-800s, and in 2005 we received our first Embraer 190. In the first quarter of 2005, we completed our fleet renovation program and discontinued use of our last Boeing 737-200s. During the second quarter of 2005, we purchased AeroRepublica, the second-largest air carrier in Colombia in terms of number of passengers carried each year since 2005. We have expanded to 65 destinations in 29 countries. We plan to continue our expansion, which includes increasing our fleet, over the next several years.



Copa Holdings is a leading Latin American provider of airline passenger and cargo service through our two principal operating subsidiaries, Copa Airlines and Copa Airlines Colombia. Copa Airlines operates from its strategically located position in the Republic of Panama, and Copa Airlines Colombia provides service primarily within Colombia complemented by international flights from various cities in Colombia to Panama City, Caracas, Cancun, Mexico City, Guayaquil, and Quito.

Copa Airlines offers more than 280 daily scheduled flights among 65 destinations in 29 countries in North, Central and South America and the Caribbean from its Panama City hub. Copa Airlines provides passengers with access to flights to more than 120 other destinations through codeshare arrangements with the new United pursuant to which each airline places its name and flight designation code on the other's flights. Through its Panama City hub, Copa Airlines is able to consolidate passenger traffic from multiple points to serve each destination effectively.

Copa Airlines Colombia provides service to 10 cities in Colombia as well as international connectivity with Copa Airlines' Hub of the Americas through flights from Barranquilla, Bogota, Bucaramanga, Cali, Cartagena, Medellin and Pereira. Additionally, Copa Airlines Colombia has international flights from Colombia to Panama City, Caracas, Cancun, Mexico City, Guayaquil, and Quito.

As of December 31, 2012 Copa Holdings operates a fleet of 82 passenger aircraft: 56 Boeing 737-Next Generation aircraft, 26 Embraer 190 aircraft.





COMPETITIVE STRENGTHS AND BUSINESS STRATEGY
COMPETITIVE STRENGTHS

We believe our primary business strengths that have allowed us to compete successfully in the airline industry include the following:

Our "Hub of the Americas" airport is strategically located. We believe that Copa's base of operations at the geographically central location of Tocumen International Airport in Panama City, Panama provides convenient connections to our principal markets in North, Central and South America and the Caribbean, enabling us to consolidate traffic to serve several destinations that do not generate enough demand to justify point-to-point service. Flights from Panama operate with few service disruptions due to weather, contributing to high completion factors and on-time performance. Tocumen International Airport's sea-level altitude allows our aircraft to operate without performance restrictions that they would be subject to at higher-altitude airports. We believe that Copa's hub in Panama allows us to benefit from Panama City's status as a center for financial services, shipping and commerce and from Panama's stable, dollar-based economy, free-trade zone and growing tourism.

We focus on keeping our operating costs low. In recent years, our low operating costs and efficiency have contributed significantly to our profitability. Our operating cost per available seat mile, excluding costs for fuel and fleet impairment charges, was 7.01 cents in 2004, 6.53 cents in 2005, 6.81 cents in 2006, 7.13 cents in 2007 and 7.46 in 2008. See "Item 5. Operating and Financial Review and Prospects" for a reconciliation of our operating cost per available seat mile when excluding costs for fuel and fleet impairment charges to our operating cost per available seat mile. We believe that our cost per available seat mile reflects our modern fleet, efficient operations and the competitive cost of labor in Panama.

Copa Airlines operates a modern fleet. Copa Airlines’ fleet consists of modern Boeing 737-Next Generation and Embraer 190 aircraft equipped with winglets and other modern cost-saving and safety features. Over the next years, Copa Airlines intends to enhance its modern fleet through the addition of at least 29 additional Boeing 737-Next Generation aircraft. We believe that Copa Airlines’ modern fleet contributes to its on-time performance and high completion factor (percentage of scheduled flights not cancelled). We expect our Boeing 737-700s, 737-800s and Embraer 190s to continue offering substantial operational cost advantages in terms of fuel efficiency and maintenance costs. Copa Airlines Colombia is currently implementing a fleet modernization and expansion plan. Since December 2007, Copa Airlines Colombia has taken delivery of 11 Embraer 190 aircraft and as of December 31, 2009 has purchase options and purchase rights for an additional five Embraer 190 aircraft.

We believe Copa Airlines has a strong brand and a reputation for quality service. We believe that the Copa Airlines brand is associated with value to passengers, providing world-class service and competitive pricing. For the year ended December 31, 2012, Copa Airlines' statistic for on-time performance was 89.20%, completion factor was 99.47% and baggage handling was 0.45 mishandled bags per 1000 passengers. Our goal is to apply our expertise in these areas to improve Copa Airlines Colombia's service statistics to comparable levels. Our focus on customer service has helped to build passenger loyalty. We believe that our brand has also been enhanced through our relationship with the new United, including our joint marketing of the MileagePlus loyalty program in Latin America, the similarity of our aircraft livery and aircraft interiors and our Copa Club partnership with United Club lounge program.

Our management fosters a culture of teamwork and continuous improvement. Our management team has been successful at creating a culture based on teamwork and focused on continuous improvement. Each of our employees at Copa Airlines has individual objectives based on corporate goals that serve as a basis for measuring performance. When corporate operational and financial targets are met, employees at Copa Airlines are eligible to receive bonuses according to our profit sharing program. We also recognize outstanding performance of individual employees through company-wide recognition, one-time awards, special events and, in the case of our senior management, grants of restricted stock and stock options. Copa Airlines’ goal-oriented culture and incentive programs have contributed to a motivated work force that is focused on satisfying customers, achieving efficiencies and growing profitability. We seek to create a similar culture at Copa Airlines Colombia.

BUSINESS STRATEGY

Our goal is to continue to grow profitably and enhance our position as a leader in Latin American aviation by providing a combination of superior customer service, convenient schedules and competitive fares, while maintaining competitive costs. The key elements of our business strategy include the following:

Expand our network by increasing frequencies and adding new destinations. We believe that demand for air travel in Latin America is likely to expand in the next decade, and we intend to use our increasing fleet capacity to meet this growing demand. We intend to focus on expanding our operations by increasing flight frequencies on our most profitable routes and initiating service to new destinations. Copa Airlines’ Panama City hub allows us to consolidate traffic and provide service to certain underserved markets, particularly in Central America and the Caribbean, and we intend to focus on providing new service to regional destinations that we believe best enhance the overall connectivity and profitability of our network.

Continue to focus on keeping our costs low. We seek to reduce our cost per available seat mile without sacrificing services valued by our customers as we execute our growth plans. Our goal is to maintain a modern fleet and to make effective use of our resources through efficient aircraft utilization and employee productivity. We intend to reduce our distribution costs by increasing direct sales, including internet and call center sales, as well as improving efficiency through technology and automated processes.

Emphasize superior service and value to our customers. We intend to continue to focus on satisfying our customers and earning their loyalty by providing a combination of superior service and competitive fares. We believe that continuing our operational success in keeping flights on time, reducing mishandled luggage and offering convenient schedules to attractive destinations will be essential to achieving this goal. We intend to continue to incentivize our employees to improve or maintain operating and service metrics relating to our customers' satisfaction by continuing our profit sharing plan and employee recognition programs and to reward customer loyalty with the popular MileagePlus frequent flyer program, upgrades and access to Copa Club and United Club lounges.

Capitalize on opportunities at Copa Airlines Colombia. We are seeking to enhance Copa Airlines Colombia's profitability through a variety of initiatives, including modernizing its fleet, integrating its route network with Copa's and improving overall efficiency.



Other updates..


FlyJam has taken to the skies and is now in the process if starting services to YYZ from KIN..GEO will start later this year..

Transaero is now negotiating with The Jamaican Govt to operate a twice weekly service for W14..

DL will resume ATL-KIN services in Dec using a MD88 for a daily service..

Citing lower than expected demand and increased competition..BW has reduced their KIN ops by 50%..

More in old thread..

To Di World...Jamaican Thread 45.. (by hummingbird Oct 30 2012 in Civil Aviation)
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
A388
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 15, 2013 1:39 am

Isn't this a Copa or Panama thread? Are you sure Copa served KIN nonstop since 1969?

A388
 
yellowtail
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 15, 2013 2:11 am

Quoting hummingbird (Thread starter):
We have expanded to 65 destinations in 29 countries. We plan to continue our expansion, which includes increasing our fleet, over the next several years.

next up....bze!

Quoting A388 (Reply 1):
Are you sure Copa served KIN nonstop since 1969?

They serve MBJ too.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
A388
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 15, 2013 12:29 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):
Quoting A388 (Reply 1):
Are you sure Copa served KIN nonstop since 1969?

They serve MBJ too.

Thanks yellowtail. I would have thought that a thread topic that represents Jamaica should for example be about the different airlines serving Jamaica and how they developed (number of flights/capacity) over the last year orso. Now one airline is featured that has nothing to do with Jamaica other than that they fly to Jamaica. I mean really, what is soo Jamaican about this thread topic? Zero, nada.

A388
 
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hummingbird
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 15, 2013 1:52 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):
next up....bze!

Its long overdue..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I got this pic of an Air China A330 in MBJ..I was told it was a charter and they received a water salute on arrival..




---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A major boost for the industry..

JTB, British Airways showcase Jamaica to elite travel trade

The Jamaica Tourist Board (JTB), in partnership with British Airways, hosted a group of luxury-selling tour operators and travel agents on a five-day tour of the island from April 15-19. The trip was part of the JTB's campaign to showcase the island's impressive luxury tourism portfolio to the United Kingdom travel trade industry.

Attracting some of the biggest names in luxury travel, including Abercrombie & Kent, Azure Collection, ITC Classics, and Scott Dunn, the trip offered the group the chance to re-familiarise themselves with Jamaica's high-end tourism product.

The group flew directly to Kingston in the comfort of British Airways' Club World, which features the world's first fully-flat airline bed, after which they visited several prestigious properties along the north coast of the island. These included site inspections of Jamaica Inn, where supermodel Kate Moss is a regular guest, and Round Hill Hotel & Villas, which boasts guest rooms in Pineapple House designed by Ralph Lauren, who also owns two villas at the resort.

http://www.hospitalityjamaica.com/news2.html

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Yet, the minister said, "We are also very excited that as of July 1, Kingston will be the first destination for Air Canada's leisure carriage, Rouge. Additionally, Air Canada Vacations has outlined significant growth plans for Jamaica as we head into next winter and beyond."

Could we possibly see extra flights from YYZ for the winter?

http://www.hospitalityjamaica.com/spot1.html

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fly Jamaica has shown it's salute to mothers who traveled on Mother's Day, by ofering special gift bags..

Excellent ploy to retain passenger loyalty..Kudos..





http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x315/yardieindubai/942891_382626981854758_324238170_n_zps955f80ab.jpg
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 15, 2013 2:54 pm

Since CM history was featured at the opening, it should be pointed out that CM major stockholders are Panamanians of Jamaican descent.
Quite ironical fact since CM presence on Jamaica has been like a roller-coaster with ups and downs during the past 25 years, but business is business, any family heritage left comes way after that.

Not sure if the traffic demand may entice CM to either add day-time flights to MBJ or KIN the same day the other airport has a flight or add an evening PTY-Jamaica, morning Jamaica-PTY flight a couple of days per week.
At least now Jamaica is linked to PTY every day, even if from different airports depending on the day of the week.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
A388
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 15, 2013 3:33 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 5):
Since CM history was featured at the opening, it should be pointed out that CM major stockholders are Panamanians of Jamaican descent.

That still doesn't mean that the airline is "Jamaican". If AA would have shareholders of Aruba, does that make then any more "Aruban"? No it doesn't. It would have been much more "Jamaican" if the topic was airlift to Jamaica and how it developed over the years (has it increased or dropped?). But putting all the lights on a foreign airline who happens to fly to your country, really???

A388
 
guyanam
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 15, 2013 9:12 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 6):

they periodically feature different airlines and have used similar themes in the past. As Jamaica seeks to improve its connections to Latin America CM will play an integral part in all of this.

Its good that Jamaican Panamanians were involved. It might stimulate further traffic to PTY if more was known about this.

Despite the fact that Panamanians of West Indian descent are a very important group in Panama (I am told 15% of the population), not much is known about them in the Anglophone Caribbean, outside of the historical fact that they played a key role in the Canal 100 years ago. Its almost as if they disappeared! How are they doing in Panama these days?

Heritage tourism, especially from KIN/BGI, is a distinct possibility.
 
yankeejuliet
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 15, 2013 9:50 pm

Be reminded that Jamaica's tourism has received a major boost of Latin American tourist (approximately eight percent) in the past six months, thanks to arrival Copa Airlines in MBJ. An additional flight is being added to this destination in the summer.
 
airjamaica
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Thu May 16, 2013 4:34 am

Quoting hummingbird (Thread starter):
Welcome Guys,
This time we will feature Copa Airlines of Panama, who have served KIN since 1969..

Thanks for getting the new thread up and running. Like the title and its representation of CM's link and history between Panama and Jamaica.

Quoting hummingbird (Thread starter):
DL will resume ATL-KIN services in Dec using a MD88 for a daily service..

A bit surprised that they plan to restart with a daily service. I don't mind though. KIN is way under utilized. Even if they will not be able to maintain a daily year round into KIN, hopefully they will at least be able to keep a presence of sorts.

Quoting A388 (Reply 1):
Are you sure Copa served KIN nonstop since 1969?

Their website indicates that they indeed started services to KIN since then.............


'' In 1969, the first AVRO 748 was introduced for flights to Kingston in Jamaica "


http://www.copaair.com/sites/cc/en/a...rlines/pages/nuestra-historia.aspx

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):
next up....bze!
Quoting hummingbird (Reply 4):
Its long overdue..

Thought they would have been on that sector long ago. It will happen eventually I figure.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 4):
I got this pic of an Air China A330 in MBJ..I was told it was a charter and they received a water salute on arrival..

Great to see that unusual " visitor " at MBJ..................

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 4):
Could we possibly see extra flights from
Quoting hummingbird (Reply 4):
Fly Jamaica has shown it's salute to mothers who traveled on Mother's Day, by ofering special gift bags..

Excellent ploy to retain passenger loyalty..Kudos..

Fly Jamaica is going hard. I am certain the gesture was highly appreciated.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 5):
it should be pointed out that CM major stockholders are Panamanians of Jamaican descent.

Very interesting. Wasn't aware of that.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 7):
they periodically feature different airlines and have used similar themes in the past.

  


************************************************************************************************************************************


Last week Thursday I visited the control tower at the Norman Manley International Airport in Kingston and snapped a few photos of the evening activities...........


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp16/gemini787/NMIA/DSC01186_zpsb7755e45.jpg

New tower construction in progress.


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp16/gemini787/NMIA/DSC01191_zps83a27591.jpg

B6 inbound from FLL.


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp16/gemini787/NMIA/DSC01192_zpsb8074ceb.jpg

B6's E190 looking sharp in the Jamaican sunset.




Preparing for return hop to FLL.


http://i393.photobucket.com/albums/pp16/gemini787/NMIA/DSC01190_zps195a6cdd.jpg


Hope you all liked the photos.

[Edited 2013-05-15 21:40:49]

[Edited 2013-05-15 21:48:54]
greenheart
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Thu May 16, 2013 12:59 pm

Quoting yankeejuliet (Reply 8):
Be reminded that Jamaica's tourism has received a major boost of Latin American tourist (approximately eight percent) in the past six months, thanks to arrival Copa Airlines in MBJ. An additional flight is being added to this destination in the summer.

This means that there will be days when both KIN and MBJ would get separate PTY flights. Doubt CM will fly PTY-KIN-MBJ-PTY as they did when CM 1st opened MBJ years ago.

Quoting hummingbird (Thread starter):
DL will resume ATL-KIN services in Dec using a MD88 for a daily service..

Hope this time DL has chosen the best schedule for both KIN and ATL connecting passengers.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
A388
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Thu May 16, 2013 1:21 pm

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 9):
'' In 1969, the first AVRO 748 was introduced for flights to Kingston in Jamaica "

That doesn't mean the route was operated continuously, it only says that they started flights to KIN in 1969. AA also has started flights from MIA to CUR in the 80's but they stopped flying for a while to restart later again. To my knowledge CM didn't fly to Jamaica continuously.

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 9):
Last week Thursday I visited the control tower at the Norman Manley International Airport in Kingston and snapped a few photos of the evening activities...........

Nice photos you have there  

Cheers,

A388
 
jm079
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Thu May 16, 2013 5:53 pm

Quoting hummingbird (Thread starter):

Great to see you highlight Copa as in this recent article it focus on the growth of the airline. Copa last year move in excess of 18,000 passengers to the island last year from Latin American countries.
http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...oubles-airlift-to-Jamaica_14196658

Quoting A388 (Reply 1):

The Jamaica Thread has always showcase airline that services Jamaica. Perhaps you are not aware but INSEL was one of the airline we showcased in the past.

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 9):

Awesome pic. Looking forward now to see the new tower next at MBJ. I also noticed that the main road leaving from Sangster Airport that merged with Kent Road has been closed and the road traffic shifted to the new highway. The closure of this road will allow the runway to be expanded.
 
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hummingbird
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Thu May 16, 2013 8:13 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 2):
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 5):
Quoting guyanam (Reply 7):
Quoting yankeejuliet (Reply 8):
Quoting airjamaica (Reply 9):
Quoting jm079 (Reply 12):

I thank you guys for clearing the misunderstanding...

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 9):
A bit surprised that they plan to restart with a daily service. I don't mind though. KIN is way under utilized. Even if they will not be able to maintain a daily year round into KIN, hopefully they will at least be able to keep a presence of sorts.
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 10):
Hope this time DL has chosen the best schedule for both KIN and ATL connecting passengers.

I have confidence, DL will remain in KIN year round..The KIN-ATL market has shown growth, yet it has been under-served..Also, DL will use their hub in ATL to offer US Domestic connections..

Times are as follow:

DL383 ATL1000 – 1308KIN M88 D
DL384 KIN1400 – 1717ATL M88 D

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 9):
Fly Jamaica is going hard. I am certain the gesture was highly appreciated.

Indeed..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 9):
Last week Thursday I visited the control tower at the Norman Manley International Airport in Kingston and snapped a few photos of the evening activities...........

Very nice pics man...I hope to see more activity in KIN in the near future..

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 10):
This means that there will be days when both KIN and MBJ would get separate PTY flights. Doubt CM will fly PTY-KIN-MBJ-PTY as they did when CM 1st opened MBJ years ago.

This is their summer schedule..I don't think it is economic for them to fly the aircraft between KIN and MBJ..

PTY-KIN

Sa,Mo,Tu and Th..Eq-E190

CM418 12:16PM-2:12PM

KIN-PTY
CM417 5:47PM-7:42PM

PTY-MBJ

Sa,Su,Mo and Thur..Eq B73G

CM146 9:30AM -11:32AM

MBJ-PTY
CM147 12:31PM-2:34PM

Quoting jm079 (Reply 12):
Awesome pic. Looking forward now to see the new tower next at MBJ. I also noticed that the main road leaving from Sangster Airport that merged with Kent Road has been closed and the road traffic shifted to the new highway. The closure of this road will allow the runway to be expanded.

Thanks..Cant wait for them to expand the runway..


Well guys, news is not looking good for BW's Jamaica operations..According to the media reports, BW lost over USD32 million on their Jamaican operations last year..

Quote:
He said government had received from CAL a restructuring outline to deal with the losses, adding that "we also intend to introduce significant restructuring of a lot of the routes and we have started that process with Air Jamaica and the Jamaican route. We incurred a loss of $32 million on those routes.

"The Jamaican Government has indicated concern with that and we have undertaken to send a high- level team to Jamaica to discuss it with them (early June). We'll discuss it with them, but as of now we are rationalising those routes to bring down costs," Howai said.
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20130516/business/business1.html

Am still baffled as to how a company this small could end up loosing so much money..

Quote:
Howai told the T&T Senate on Tuesday that the US$70 million loss did not include the US$40 million in fuel subsidy to the airline, even though he insisted that the airline remained solvent.

Read more: http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/...est-losses-_14275970#ixzz2TUKcN1ce

Also, "low cost" operators as DL,WS and B6 are being blamed for BW's loss in Jamaica..

“The intention was to have a Caribbean airline and the merging of Air Jamaica and Caribbean Airlines was supposed to provide that. There was a stipulation by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) that Jamaica would divest itself of Air Jamaica and that is how CAL and the Government of T&T stepped in.


Clearly it has not worked as it was intended to work because of the intervention of low cost carriers like Delta, West Jet, Jet Blue, which have come into the market place and usurped a lot of the traffic from those routes,” said Bharath, who is also Minister in the Ministry of Finance.
http://www.guardian.co.tt/business/2...-jamaica-merger-did-not-go-planned

[Edited 2013-05-16 13:17:24]
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
bobnwa
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Thu May 16, 2013 8:40 pm

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 13):
Clearly it has not worked as it was intended to work because of the intervention of low cost carriers like Delta, West Jet, Jet Blue, which have come into the market place and usurped a lot of the traffic from those routes,” said Bharath, who is also Minister in the Ministry of Finance.

When did Delta become a low cost operator?
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Thu May 16, 2013 9:10 pm

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 13):
This is their summer schedule

PTY-Jamaica twice per day Mo, Th and Sa; plus Su to MBJ and Tu to KIN?
That means We and Sa there aren't any fights at all between PTY (CM hub) and Jamaica.
What's CM planning department thinking? If they really want to be able to promote Jamaica the way it should be and be an alternative for Jamaicans travelling to Latin America not wanting to fly via MIA, CM must operate daily flights to the island.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
jm079
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Thu May 16, 2013 9:50 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 15):

Jamaica intent to build a strategic relationship with Copa as the country looks to South America for new market. Jamaica Tourist Minister said last year " "We are actively looking at them with strategies we hope to implement,"

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/busin...m-takes-off_13008803#ixzz2TUg60Xlm

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 13):

Am told that the government of Jamaica is taking a deep interest in the matter as it has a minority share in the company. The issue is about CAL reducing capacity on its Jamaican operation which is far below the agreed level and the reduction is primarily on the gateways served by the disapora as well as the issue of coporate governance at CAL. Jamaica is alarmed at reports that there is inference by board members in the operation of the company.
 
airjamaica
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Fri May 17, 2013 5:05 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 3):
I would have thought that a thread topic that represents Jamaica should for example be about the different airlines serving Jamaica and how they developed (number of flights/capacity) over the last year orso. Now one airline is featured that has nothing to do with Jamaica other than that they fly to Jamaica. I mean really, what is soo Jamaican about this thread topic? Zero, nada.

What I find very ironic about your comment, is the fact that these concerns/sentiments were not expressed by you when 7I was featured as the theme for the Jamaican thread some time ago. Funny enough you were quite elated and appreciative when that carrier was highlighted. From time to time we put the spotlight on the various carriers that have served Jamaica throughout the years. It's not a big deal really.

Quoting A388 (Reply 11):
That doesn't mean the route was operated continuously, it only says that they started flights to KIN in 1969. AA also has started flights from MIA to CUR in the 80's but they stopped flying for a while to restart later again. To my knowledge CM didn't fly to Jamaica continuously.

That may be true, but no where did anyone state that CM " continuously " served Jamaica since 1969. The opening sentence for the thread clearly states :

" This time we will feature Copa Airlines of Panama, who have served KIN since 1969.. "


Same for the first paragraph of the CM link I previously included :


'' In 1969, the first AVRO 748 was introduced for flights to Kingston in Jamaica "


Not seeing where the word " continuous " was a part of those sentences. Neither am I seeing where it was ever implied.


Your reply below :

Quoting A388 (Reply 1):
Are you sure Copa served KIN nonstop since 1969?

.....easily gives the impression that it was categorically stated ( or implied ) that the service to Jamaica was a continuous one throughout the years, when in fact no one said it was. The focus here is that services to Jamaica by CM was started in 1969.

Quoting jm079 (Reply 12):
Copa last year move in excess of 18,000 passengers to the island last year from Latin American countries.

Quite impressive if you ask me. Hoping for more growth.

Quoting jm079 (Reply 12):
The Jamaica Thread has always showcase airline that services Jamaica.

   This is nothing strange or new to the Jamaican thread. There is a part of me that can't believe we are going down this road again......   

Quoting jm079 (Reply 12):
Looking forward now to see the new tower next at MBJ.

Was told that work has also started on the new MBJ one. Not certain how far they have reached though.


Thanks all for the comments re the photos. Hopefully I will be able to do same at MBJ in the near future.
greenheart
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Fri May 17, 2013 1:25 pm

Quoting jm079 (Reply 16):
Jamaica intent to build a strategic relationship with Copa as the country looks to South America for new market. Jamaica Tourist Minister said last year " "We are actively looking at them with strategies we hope to implement,"

CM flying to both MBJ and KIN the same 3 days per week and no flights at all to the island 2 days per week can't be seen as a good strategy Jamaica Tourist Authorities hope to implement.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
guyanam
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Fri May 17, 2013 5:51 pm

Quoting jm079 (Reply 16):

Question. If BWs Jcan routes are losing money, then shouldnt there be an emphasis on figuring out how those routes be made at least break even? It appears to me that if the Jcan govt insists that these routes be flown, profitable or not, then they ought to offer revenues guarantees. If unwilling to offer such guarantees then they ought to remain silent about capacity reduction. Especially as they have allowed FJ to steal VFR passengers from BW, and indeed applaud its starting service.

After all its clear that the "Air Jamaica" brand has done nothing for BW. And indeed many might argue that it is an albatross, as most Trinis certainly said when it was clear that most, other than Manning, opposed this move. CAL is still in the process of establishing itself in a very rough aviation environment and to absorb JM's routes was a risky move, given that carrier's history of huge losses.

It might be best to discontinue the former JM routes and let the govt and people of Jamaica figure it out. That will leave BW to focus on making the rest of its operations profitable, or at least break even, especially as the fuel subsidy seems as if it will be discontinued in another 2 years.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 18):

The KIN and the MBJ markets are very different. MBJ has a focus on Latin visitors to Jca, while the KIN is focused on Jcan travel to and through PTY, a swell as business travel into Jca from Latin America.

It is hardly likely, given poor aviation connections between KIN and MBJ, that some one flying into one part of the island will seek to connect to another. So duplication of service on particular days is a non issue. Indeed the business focus of the KIN route shows more emphasis on mid week, and less on week end service. MBJ is designe dto give flexibility to those who want a full week vacation, or those who want a short stay (th-su, or mo-th).
 
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hummingbird
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Fri May 17, 2013 7:01 pm

As mentioned in the old thread, SY will operate FJM flights while the aircraft undergoes C-Check..
I was informed, the aircraft may return with a new livery..
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SCX120


Quoting bobnwa (Reply 14):

When did Delta become a low cost operator?

I guess, it was an error on their part..In other threads, it has been mentioned that BW has lower costs compared to their US counterparts..

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 15):
PTY-Jamaica twice per day Mo, Th and Sa; plus Su to MBJ and Tu to KIN?
That means We and Sa there aren't any fights at all between PTY (CM hub) and Jamaica.
What's CM planning department thinking? If they really want to be able to promote Jamaica the way it should be and be an alternative for Jamaicans travelling to Latin America not wanting to fly via MIA, CM must operate daily flights to the island.

The flights to MBJ are timed to compliment with the travel patterns of Latin American tourists..It enables the tourists to stay in Jamaica for more than 4 days, which is of great benefit to the industry..
I have no doubt once the Latin American markets has shown strong growth , we may see daily services into MBJ.

Quoting jm079 (Reply 16):
Jamaica is alarmed at reports that there is inference by board members in the operation of the company.

No surprises here..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 17):
impressive if you ask me. Hoping for more growth.

Agree..

Quoting guyanam (Reply 19):
It appears to me that if the Jcan govt insists that these routes be flown, profitable or not, then they ought to offer revenues guarantees.

Not really..Its a matter of procedure and principle..BW knew ahead of plans to cut the services and did not inform the Govt of Jamaica..When they tried to contract BW, they were ignored..
I believe The JA Govt, moving forward is trying to find out what are BW plans so alternate arrangements can me made to accommodate customers...
BW already has a fuel subsidy..I am against an subsidies being offered...

Quoting guyanam (Reply 19):
It might be best to discontinue the former JM routes and let the govt and people of Jamaica figure it out. That will leave BW to focus on making the rest of its operations profitable, or at least break even, especially as the fuel subsidy seems as if it will be discontinued in another 2 years.

They close The Jamaica base, you are looking at a further $20-$30 million in losses..

[Edited 2013-05-17 12:03:44]
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Fri May 17, 2013 9:48 pm

JFK-GEO will initially see FJ 3 times weekly using 757-200 ER aircraft.
 
guyanam
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Fri May 17, 2013 10:56 pm

Quoting yankeejuliet (Reply 21):

Will it be nonstop? If so these services will be welcomed as BW is completely booked out of GEO (and POS) for the next few weeks.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 20):

Personally I do not think that Jca cares one iota for BW and are just making noise for political purposes, and to demand money that BW owes them for landing fees, etc.

The likely scenario is that BW will refuse to increase service, Jca withdraws the AJ brand, and BW then closes its KIN base. T&T govt negotiates a repayment plan for landing fees, etc as part of its agreement to close its KIN base, and lay off the remaining Jcan employees. All political bases are covered.

BW is getting a Fuel subsidy from the Govt of Trinidad. Given that this subsidy is being paid by T&T taxpayers there can be no demand by Jamaica that BW should provide services on routes where they cannot make money. A major part of the subsidy is now being used to service loss making routes between KIN/MBJ and FLL/JFK/YYZ, routes which were also loss makers for JM.

Why should any T&T PM risk her political neck by explaining to T&T taxpayers why they ought to pay for airline access on former JM routes? How does this benefit T&T? Clearly it doesnt as BW has lost $US32MM as a result, money that could have been used to acquire their new planes, and this is in addition to the massive expenditure by the T&T govt to set up tghis KIN base.

Its clear that the "Air Jamaica" brand no longer has any value and so there is no reason why BW should pay to use it, and then lose US$30MM as a result. BW is neither wanted nor needed by Jca (except to the E.Cbn), and so ought to focus on its core E/Cabn network.

T&T should pay the Jca govt what it owes for fees and taxes, scrap the 16% shareholding as this also has little value as BW is almost bankrupt.

.IMHO T&T should have left Golding to stew in his own gravy when he would have been forced to explain to Jcans why he had to shut down JM, leaving them exposed to the will of US and Canadian carriers, but that is water under the bridge.
 
LimaMike
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Sat May 18, 2013 2:09 am

Hey all, today I had the opportunity to tour my new "home" which is under construction and I was able to snap a few pics! Do not get too fussy; pics were taken using my phone.









Cleared for takeoff!
 
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Mon May 20, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 22):
Will it be nonstop? If so these services will be welcomed as BW is completely booked out of GEO (and POS) for the next few weeks.

These will be non stop and subjected to approval by Guyana. Two additional flights may operate from KIN with YYZ and JFK connections in mind.
 
guyanam
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Mon May 20, 2013 5:56 pm

Quoting yankeejuliet (Reply 24):

Well if US FAA authorization has already been provided then a nonstop JFK GEO is a go as there is already pressure within Guyana to do so. The GY CAA has recommended that such approval be given, due to the fact that BW now controls over 90% of the seats into Guyana and no country wants to be in such a poistion.

I also suspect that BW is also waiting to see what sort of competition will emerge on the JFK GEO to determine what they will do. Knowing them I will expect a fare war and a massive increase in seats, knowing that given a choice, most will chose who they know rather than a new upstart.
 
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Mon May 20, 2013 6:20 pm

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 17):
What I find very ironic about your comment, is the fact that these concerns/sentiments were not expressed by you when 7I was featured as the theme for the Jamaican thread some time ago. Funny enough you were quite elated and appreciative when that carrier was highlighted. From time to time we put the spotlight on the various carriers that have served Jamaica throughout the years. It's not a big deal really.

All I said was "Nice summary of Insel Air, thanks!!!", nothing more. My point is not whether it's nice or not but rather that I would have expected something truly Jamaican as the subject. I said this also when the Cayman Islands were featured in the past. But okay, I'll move on and play along.

A388
 
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Mon May 20, 2013 10:25 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 25):
I also suspect that BW is also waiting to see what sort of competition will emerge on the JFK GEO to determine what they will do. Knowing them I will expect afare war and a massive increase in seats, knowing that given a choice, most will chose who they know rather than a new upstart.

BW is of no competition to the privately owned Fly Jamaica anytime, anywhere because of their poor customer service throughout their network fly jam will offer a superior service similar to the old JM back in the early 1970's. BW's increase of seats in GEO will not help, only to incur further losses to them.
 
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Tue May 21, 2013 12:33 am

Quoting yankeejuliet (Reply 27):

What you say might hold for Jamaica. You might find out that Guyanese are as skeptical of a Jamaican product as Jamaicans are of a Trinidadian.

We will see if FJ will have the fortitude to acheive what no other privately owned Caribbean carrier has, and that is survive. And after the demise of EZ many Guyanese might fear flying them.

Let us talk after Nov because that Sept/Noiv low season has killed off many an airline.
 
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Tue May 21, 2013 12:56 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 26):



Fair enough, I understand that but highlighting carriers that serves Jamaica whether to KIN or MBJ is unique to us here on this thread as the Jamaican thread is the only one that does that. All these carriers provide airlift to Jamaica and we think they are important. We have highlighted Caribbean Airlines, Insel, Westjet, Air Canada and others including Cayman Airline - Jamaican do travel on these airlines too.

Quoting yankeejuliet (Reply 27):


I agree with you that the old strategy of reducing fares to drive there competitor off a route is not gonna work and its that strategy that is causing the bleeding. Is CAL manangement saying that the carrier can not compete with other carriers at all. Along with there poor management and governance policy.
I find it appalling that BW can use the excuse that the low cost carriers on there Jamaican operation is what caused the lost. The true is that they failed to leverage there investment. BW took over the Jamaican operation debt free, they had a load factors averaging 60%. BW management in POS did absolutely nothing to leverage there investment. If BW was a private entity there would have been a massive shake up in management and the board of directors would have been fired.

The dire situation that BW finds it self validates our call back then for the Jamaican Pilot Association to purchase Air Jamaica from the GOJ. The pilots who had wanted to purchase Air Jamaica has now started there own airlines - Fly Jamaica Airways yet at that time those pilots were pilloried and dismissed for wanting to own and run there own airline. They it seems now have the final word.
 
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Tue May 21, 2013 1:53 am

Quoting jm079 (Reply 29):
agree with you that the old strategy of reducing fares to drive there competitor off a route is not gonna work and its that strategy that is causing the bleeding. Is CAL manangement saying that the carrier can not compete with other carriers at all. Along with there poor management and governance policy.
I find it appalling that BW can use the excuse that the low cost carriers on there Jamaican operation is what caused the lost. The true is that they failed to leverage there investment. BW took over the Jamaican operation debt free, they had a load factors averaging 60%. BW management in POS did absolutely nothing to leverage there investment. If BW was a private entity there would have been a massive shake up in management and the board of directors would have been fired.

The dire situation that BW finds it self validates our call back then for the Jamaican Pilot Association to purchase Air Jamaica from the GOJ. The pilots who had wanted to purchase Air Jamaica has now started there own airlines - Fly Jamaica Airways yet at that time those pilots were pilloried and dismissed for wanting to own and run there own airline. They it seems now have the final word.
  
"It's okay to cheat, if you just really don't like to lose."
 
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Tue May 21, 2013 12:53 pm

Quoting LimaMike (Reply 23):

Nice pics man..

Quoting guyanam (Reply 22):
Personally I do not think that Jca cares one iota for BW and are just making noise for political purposes, and to demand money that BW owes them for landing fees, etc.

The likely scenario is that BW will refuse to increase service, Jca withdraws the AJ brand, and BW then closes its KIN base. T&T govt negotiates a repayment plan for landing fees, etc as part of its agreement to close its KIN base, and lay off the remaining Jcan employees. All political bases are covered.

According to the T&T media, they have chosen a chairman who has career experience in Jamaica..

IMO..Too little too late..

Quoting guyanam (Reply 25):

I also suspect that BW is also waiting to see what sort of competition will emerge on the JFK GEO to determine what they will do. Knowing them I will expect a fare war and a massive increase in seats, knowing that given a choice, most will chose who they know rather than a new upstart.
Quoting yankeejuliet (Reply 27):
BW is of no competition to the privately owned Fly Jamaica anytime, anywhere because of their poor customer service throughout their network fly jam will offer a superior service similar to the old JM back in the early 1970's. BW's increase of seats in GEO will not help, only to incur further losses to them.

Am not familiar with the GEO market, but was told Cpt Reese has family ties to a major Travel Agent that sells thousands of seats to GEO per year..This was a deciding factor to start FJM, due to the issue of high prices being charged to GEO..
On the issue of price wars, The DOT is closely monitoring BW on any action of predatory pricing towards FJM..

Quoting jm079 (Reply 29):
The dire situation that BW finds it self validates our call back then for the Jamaican Pilot Association to purchase Air Jamaica from the GOJ. The pilots who had wanted to purchase Air Jamaica has now started there own airlines - Fly Jamaica Airways yet at that time those pilots were pilloried and dismissed for wanting to own and run there own airline. They it seems now have the final word.

Agree wholeheartedly..
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
A388
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Tue May 21, 2013 1:06 pm

Quoting jm079 (Reply 29):
Fair enough, I understand that but highlighting carriers that serves Jamaica whether to KIN or MBJ is unique to us here on this thread as the Jamaican thread is the only one that does that. All these carriers provide airlift to Jamaica and we think they are important. We have highlighted Caribbean Airlines, Insel, Westjet, Air Canada and others including Cayman Airline - Jamaican do travel on these airlines too.

Alrighty then my friend  

A388
 
airjamaica
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Tue May 21, 2013 2:21 pm

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 20):
I was informed, the aircraft may return with a new livery..

Hope so. Looking forward to see it whenever it is presented.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 25):
I also suspect that BW is also waiting to see what sort of competition will emerge on the JFK GEO to determine what they will do. Knowing them I will expect a fare war and a massive increase in seats, knowing that given a choice, most will chose who they know rather than a new upstart.
Quoting yankeejuliet (Reply 27):
BW is of no competition to the privately owned Fly Jamaica anytime, anywhere because of their poor customer service throughout their network fly jam will offer a superior service similar to the old JM back in the early 1970's. BW's increase of seats in GEO will not help, only to incur further losses to them.
Quoting jm079 (Reply 29):
I agree with you that the old strategy of reducing fares to drive there competitor off a route is not gonna work and its that strategy that is causing the bleeding.

It will be very interesting to see how this will all play out. But employing such tactic will further exasperate the heavy bleeding of cash no doubt.

Quoting jm079 (Reply 29):
I find it appalling that BW can use the excuse that the low cost carriers on there Jamaican operation is what caused the lost.

It was more than expected that they would come forth with such claims. Seem the KIN turf was underestimated. It was said a " gazzilion " times....KIN was not going to be a walk in the park. Some downplayed that reality and, well we see what is happening now.
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 22, 2013 12:22 pm

According to a media release, Fly Jamaica has been granted it's license by the Canadian authorities and is expected to start services in June 2013..

A new airline, Fly Jamaica, has been granted permission from the Canadian Transportation Agency to begin advertising and selling tickets in anticipation of receiving a scheduled international licence from Transport Canada to operate a service between Jamaica and Toronto Pearson CYYZ. This approval is expected to be given in time for a June 2013 launch.

http://www.romanceofflight.com/blog/...to-add-toronto-beginning-june-2013

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
More rave reviews about Fly Jamaica's service..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KeGvAXgnVA

http://funny-videos-chart.com/why-pa...gers-love-flying-with-fly-jamaica/

http://funny-videos-chart.com/ity-an...cat-on-the-fly-jamaica-experience/

Excellent PR concept..

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the Guyana front, it is being reported they have yet to submit key documents..

Minister of Works Robeson Benn says that Fly Jamaica has not yet been ‘cleared for take-off’ as the airline with Guyanese ‘lineage’ is still to submit key documents to the Guyana Civil Aviation Authority (GCAA).

Efforts to reach captain Ronald Reece, one of the airline’s principals, were futile. This newspaper was told that Reece was in Jamaica from where the airline operates.

Speaking to this newspaper last weekend, Benn said that unlike Jamaica, Guyana would seek to reimburse passengers for their tickets in the event of an airline going belly up and it is for this reason that Government must ensure that there is full compliance with all of the regulatory and financial requirements.

An official of Wings Aviation, whose CEO Reece is one of the partners in Fly Jamaica, said that she has heard no word from the GCAA. According to the official the company would have submitted all that is required by the GCAA.

The need for a new air carrier became more acute with the May 5th, 2013 pull-out of Delta Airlines from Guyana after five years of flying non-stop the Georgetown-New York route.

http://www.stabroeknews.com/2013/new...ica-still-to-submit-key-documents/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
airjamaica
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 22, 2013 2:41 pm

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 34):
According to a media release, Fly Jamaica has been granted it's license by the Canadian authorities and is expected to start services in June 2013..

Pleased to hear that Fly Jamaica is expected to inaugurate KIN-YYZ by June all things being well. As expected, they have their eyes set on FLL as well, but the B752 is too much metal for that route I think, particularly outside of peak travel periods. Back in the day I recall JM used the A310's on KIN-FLL for the late evening RON ( JM 087 ). Also further back in the day, the A300's were regular on KIN-MIA ( JM 021, 025 etc. ) But at that time during the ' Butch ' era , JM was the sole carrier on KIN-FLL. It would be in Fly Jamaica's best interest to use a more suitable aircraft type for South Florida when they do start it in my opinion.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 34):
More rave reviews about Fly Jamaica's service..

Members of the diaspora seem to be excited about Fly Jamaica's entry thus far from what is seen in those video clips. Ity and Fancy Cat....those two comedians are something else...  .....Good PR indeed...........

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 34):
On the Guyana front, it is being reported they have yet to submit key documents..

Hopefully they will be able to iron out all of that as soon as possible. Ideal time to start GEO-JFK nonstop with DL's departure from the route.
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guyanam
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 22, 2013 5:23 pm

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 31):

The issue with FJ is whether they are sufficient capitalized to withstand the drought of late Aug/mid Nov when little revenue comes in due to the autumn soft period. Also the period between Xmas/New Years and Easter, which is another soft period in the VFR market. The Guyanese carriers usually collapsed during these periods. Unlike BW, and LI, there is no fairy god mother to help them through these periods.


I wish them luck as something has to break the notion that CARICOM carriers can only survive if they are state owned and dependent on tax payer funded subsidies.

If they get JFK GEO rights they should do well. With DL off the route and PY not likely to start, due to delays in getting suitable planes (they still say Jul 2013 but I dont see how that is possible), FJ can gain share as no one likes the notion of BW being virtually the only airline into GEO.

I very much doubt that the FAA will care what BW does to FJ. They did it to EZjet and succeeded, so why not to FJ, which is a foreign carrier. Of course the govt of Jamaica actually is a part owner of BW, so will be constrained in how they react. The FAA intervene if they think that US entities or citizens will be hurt. A fare war between carriers will benenfit passengers.

Of course Guyana is going to want to see FJ actually fund that bond that small carriers have to lodge in the event of collapse. Apparently this is a majpr issue. Reece is most likely no friend of the existing govt so no favors will be granted. And the excuse will be to protect Guyanese, given the events of the past decade when several carriers collapsed.
 
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 22, 2013 5:57 pm

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 35):

Actually, FLL is a big market that FJM can easily steal from B6 and BW.. When BW took over JM routes, they were a total of 4 flights plying FLL-KIN... B6 took over the reigns from BW due to their inability to maintain passenger loyalty..
I have no doubts FJM could maintain a 2 daily B752 service connecting KIN to FLL..
The flights could operate with an early departure from KIN and a late evening departure from KIN, returning by 9pm..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 35):

Am pretty sure B6 is worried about FJM's expansion into JFK..

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 35):

While I understand the concern of the GOG about FJM's financial position..
I find it strange, they have just given BW carrier status, yet they are courting carriers as Suriname Airways and Jetblue to ply the JFK-GEO route..

http://newssourcegy.com/news/air-china-approached-to-fly-guyana-route/

http://www.guyanachronicleonline.com...ject-to-be-restored&catid=4:top-st

----------------------------------------------------

Dennis Lalor, board member of BW has stated Air Jamaica is not to blamed for BW's financial situation..

“CAL did not have to do any marketing for the Air Jamaica brand. I had hoped that this investment in the airline would have done what the Federation, Caricom and the West Indies Cricket team had failed to do, which was to create a unified Caribbean airline,” he said. Questioned on what he felt caused the losses incurred by Jamaica, Lalor simply responded that CAL had “inexperience in dealing with tourism, they wanted to stamp their Trinidad ownership on the operations and they were insensitive to the nuances of marketing”.

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/...osses-207961801.html?m=y&smobile=y

--------------------------------------------------
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
guyanam
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 22, 2013 6:26 pm

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 37):

Maybe PY and B6 are established carriers and FJ has yet to prove that it can survive a slow season without runnimng into financial difficulties. having just been bloodied by the collapse of Redjet and EZ why wouldnt Guyana be concerned about FJ.

Indeed they claim that FJ has yet to furnish some documentation that they are looking for. FJ seems to ahve some operational issues with the frequent delays in furnishing documentation required by licensing authorities, and that ought to convern its supporters. They must have burnt though a lot of cash when their plane was grounded.

Air China is a laugh. Why would they run a route way out of their network with all the repercussions for crewing etc?

BW is here to stay and they have by far the best route network into GEO. BW is already the defacto national airline for GEO so why not make it official so that Guyana can gain route rights, such as the nonstip YYZ GEO route? No other carrier has the basic abilityu to function as a Guyana''s national carrier, despite what people might think of them.

Clearly the KIN base contributed to BWs financial situation. Not the only problem, but a significant one, for all the reasons that have been frequently disclosed on this site. Indeed from the very beginning folks here predicted that it would fail, so why the shock?

Mr Lalor could have let his concerns be known long before, as he is a representative of Jca and not T&T, so if T&T didnt like what he had to say there is nothing that they could have done to him. As we see he is the only one left. Mr Lalor is just covering his posterior but he is as much to blame as were the other members of the former board. As a board member he had the obligation to speak out if there were issues with how BW was being managed.
 
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Wed May 22, 2013 7:04 pm

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 37):
I have no doubts FJM could maintain a 2 daily B752 service connecting KIN to FLL..

I wonder if the same B757 could do a KIN-FLL-KIN-JFK-KIN-FLL-KIN rotation departing KIN at 0600h
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
airjamaica
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Thu May 23, 2013 7:45 am

Quoting guyanam (Reply 36):
If they get JFK GEO rights they should do well. With DL off the route and PY not likely to start, due to delays in getting suitable planes (they still say Jul 2013 but I dont see how that is possible), FJ can gain share as no one likes the notion of BW being virtually the only airline into GEO.

I agree.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 37):
I find it strange, they have just given BW carrier status, yet they are courting carriers as Suriname Airways and Jetblue to ply the JFK-GEO route..

Part of the objective here I think is to have options for the traveling public on the JFK-GEO route, as opposed to just one carrier which will impact air fares.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 39):
I wonder if the same B757 could do a KIN-FLL-KIN-JFK-KIN-FLL-KIN rotation departing KIN at 0600h

That kind of rotation would allow them to efficiently utilize their aircraft. Perhaps they would push out a bit earlier. The current KIN-JFK departure leaves at 5:30 am.
greenheart
 
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Thu May 23, 2013 3:26 pm

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 40):
That kind of rotation would allow them to efficiently utilize their aircraft. Perhaps they would push out a bit earlier. The current KIN-JFK departure leaves at 5:30 am.

With a 0530 KIN departure to FLL, the same aircraft may be used for morning and evening KIN-FLL-KIN and mid-morning KIN-JFK-KIN. Turnarounds @ FLL and JFK may be very tight but still doable.
Would KIN O/D traffic tolerate a FLL-KIN arriving KIN 0030h?
Another B757 could fly JFK-KIN morning, KIN-YYZ-KIN mid-morning and KIN-JFK evenings.
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yellowtail
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Thu May 23, 2013 10:13 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 41):
With a 0530 KIN departure to FLL, the same aircraft may be used for morning and evening KIN-FLL-KIN and mid-morning KIN-JFK-KIN. Turnarounds @ FLL and JFK may be very tight but still doable.
Would KIN O/D traffic tolerate a FLL-KIN arriving KIN 0030h?
Another B757 could fly JFK-KIN morning, KIN-YYZ-KIN mid-morning and KIN-JFK evenings.

Now you are beginning to think like a route planner! Its asset allocation, asset allocation, asset allocation!

They only problems with tight turns on an airline with only a few aircraft is that you leave little wiggle room for when (not) if things go wrong (weather, mech etc). I have always planned with a 2 hour make up window at some point in the day that at least it doesn't roll over into the next day.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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hummingbird
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Fri May 24, 2013 1:05 am

Quoting guyanam (Reply 36):
If they get JFK GEO rights they should do well. With DL off the route and PY not likely to start, due to delays in getting suitable planes (they still say Jul 2013 but I dont see how that is possible), FJ can gain share as no one likes the notion of BW being virtually the only airline into GEO.

I read where PY was trying to acquire another Boeing narrow body..It could be a B-classic or B-NG..IMO..I don't think PY should consider the GEO-JFK market at this time..

Quoting guyanam (Reply 36):
I very much doubt that the FAA will care what BW does to FJ. They did it to EZjet and succeeded, so why not to FJ, which is a foreign carrier. Of course the govt of Jamaica actually is a part owner of BW, so will be constrained in how they react. The FAA intervene if they think that US entities or citizens will be hurt. A fare war between carriers will benenfit passengers.

Oh yes, they do have their eyes on BW's habit of using predatory pricing to kill competition..

On October 25, 2012, Mr. John Gilmore filed an answer in support of Fly Jamaica’s request. In addition to expressing his support for Fly Jamaica’s application, Mr. Gilmore asserts that Caribbean Airlines Ltd. , a foreign air carrier serving the Jamaica-U.S. market, is subsidized by the Government of Trinidad and Tobago, and suggests that we monitor the activities of CAL to assure that it does not engage in predatory pricing in competing with Fly Jamaica.

ostdocket2012/order20121138.html

Quoting guyanam (Reply 38):
Mr Lalor could have let his concerns be known long before, as he is a representative of Jca and not T&T, so if T&T didnt like what he had to say there is nothing that they could have done to him. As we see he is the only one left. Mr Lalor is just covering his posterior but he is as much to blame as were the other members of the former board. As a board member he had the obligation to speak out if there were issues with how BW was being managed.

He did..Sometime last year, he mentioned the diaspora was shunning BW for other carriers..This should have been a wake up call for the old board..

http://rjrnewsonline.com/business/ja...-snubbing-air-jamaica-dennis-lalor

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 39):
I wonder if the same B757 could do a KIN-FLL-KIN-JFK-KIN-FLL-KIN rotation departing KIN at 0600h
Quoting airjamaica (Reply 40):
That kind of rotation would allow them to efficiently utilize their aircraft. Perhaps they would push out a bit earlier. The current KIN-JFK departure leaves at 5:30 am.

Yes..The block times between KIN-FLL-KIN has a gate to gate time of 4:30 hrs..For FLL, they would need a 3rd aircraft to optimize the utilization..

This is what I for-see in the future for FJM..KIN will be a hub that will connect YYZ,JFK and FLL to KIN and GEO..
The sky is the limit, but never stop grasping until you get the glory cloud..
 
jm079
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Fri May 24, 2013 4:42 am

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 43):
He did..Sometime last year, he mentioned the diaspora was shunning BW for other carriers..This should have been a wake up call for the old board..

The reason the diaspora stayed away lies in what Lalor had to say here: "Questioned on what he felt caused the losses incurred by Jamaica, Lalor simply responded that CAL had “inexperience in dealing with tourism, they wanted to stamp their Trinidad ownership on the operations and they were insensitive to the nuances of marketing”.
http://www.trinidadexpress.com/news/...ame-for-CALs-losses-207961801.html
 
airjamaica
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Fri May 24, 2013 5:46 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 41):
Would KIN O/D traffic tolerate a FLL-KIN arriving KIN 0030h?

I can recall back in the day JM's last MIA-KIN flight for the evening was usually scheduled to get in between 10:00 pm and 11:30 pm every night depending on the time of the year. Not sure if the majority of them would like a 12:30 am arrival from FLL. Then again, during the peak seasons when B6 add the additional JFK-KIN flights, they are usually scheduled to arrive around those times and loads are quite good none the less.

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 43):
He did..Sometime last year, he mentioned the diaspora was shunning BW for other carriers..This should have been a wake up call for the old board..
Quoting jm079 (Reply 44):
The reason the diaspora stayed away lies in what Lalor had to say here: "Questioned on what he felt caused the losses incurred by Jamaica, Lalor simply responded that CAL had “inexperience in dealing with tourism, they wanted to stamp their Trinidad ownership on the operations and they were insensitive to the nuances of marketing”.

More than one posters in this thread have been saying same since last year as well, and it has now come to light and seemingly haunting them. So much for those who thought it was just a few in the diaspora that were just being verbose. Things are shaping out exactly as many here had predicted.
greenheart
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Fri May 24, 2013 1:45 pm

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 43):
Yes..The block times between KIN-FLL-KIN has a gate to gate time of 4:30 hrs..For FLL, they would need a 3rd aircraft to optimize the utilization..

Well in this case, plane one does KIN-FLL-KIN-JFK-KIN departing KIN 0600h, plane 2 does KIN-JFK-KIN-FLL-KIN also departing KIN 0600h.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
ilanbwoy
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Fri May 24, 2013 3:50 pm

Whats up everybody, its been awhile. I have been reading, just not posting. Anyways..here is my take. Its not just b6 watching fj. You can bet a few $$$ that dl watching them also. The sudden out of the blue return to kin from atlanta came out of nowhere. They used 737 / md88 / and rjs and that was only 5 days a week if i recall. Now they are coming back 7 days a week with the md. Please. Thats just a response to the pending entry of fj into atlanta.

I like what i am seeing with the possibility of fj in terms of possible growth. Its a pity i never caught that $500 mil powerball last week...cuz if i did, then i would be talking to them right now and planning growth. The 757 is too much plane for atl and fll, but its perfect for jfk yyz and geo. I could see a rotation of kin-jfk-kin-yyz-geo-yyz-kin over a 2 day span with the aircraft getting back to kin about 5pm based on a 6am start time the day before. When it returns from the rotation, then it sits overnight so that the necessary checks can get done. They could also do kin-yyz-kin-jfk-geo-jfk-kin. In either scenario it is red eyes to geo, but i think thats what was offered by delta from jfk. Guyanam would have to comment on that as i am too lazy to look it up.

Anyways, as far as the fll/atl/mco areas, i think it would be perfect if they could get like a 737-700 (expensive) or a 319 for those routes. Anything smaller would not work because of the amount of bags that some caribbean folks tend to travel with. They could run a mini bus operation to florida and i think survive even in the low season.

The keys to all this is money and since i didnt win the powerball, i cant infuse what i would like to at this time. Good luck to fj as the future is bright. they just have to take time and grow smartly and efficiently.
 
guyanam
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Fri May 24, 2013 11:55 pm

Quoting hummingbird (Reply 43):

Mr Gilmore. a citizen of Jamaica, filed a claim against BW. That doesnt mean that the US giovt cares. Especially when BW has been given route rights as a de facto Jamaican airline.

I see that Mr Lalor made reference to the delays that occurred in summer 2011 when BW took over. Aside from that he states that Jcans dont like BW because they dont see it as Jcan and that this is a pity as it has reduced load factors.

I do not see any direct criticism of BW and its handling of their KIN base, aside from the defalys, which I recall were due to the late arrival of 737 planes. I suspect that BW now has a much better ontime record on its KIN/MBJ to USA/Cda than did JM in its last days. Yes their ground service stinks, but then Trinis and Guyanese know all about that too. Its because they have outsourced these services and do not demand proper treatment of their passengers by the contractors. Although the contractors probably can tell tales about BW as well no doubt.

Like I said every one is now trying to cover their tail. The former management by implying that its only the AJ routes to blame, and not also their incompetence. And Lalor by claiming that AJ routes arent the problem.

My question is what did he say AT THE TIME about how BW was marketing to Jcans and attempting to develop loyalty?
 
jm079
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RE: Canal To Harbour..Jamaican Thread 46

Sat May 25, 2013 5:39 pm

Quoting airjamaica (Reply 45):

CAL approach to its Jamaican operation lies in the fact the present government in POS is not Pan Caribbean as was the previous government and as the Jamaican board member mentioned the strategy was to stamp their Trinidad ownership on the operations and they were insensitive to the nuances of marketing.

Quoting ilanbwoy (Reply 47):

I think FJA stands a good chance of being around for quite awhile as judging from there approach I see that they are out there in the community selling there brand to the Jamaican community. I also take the view that local airlines in the Caribbean that are owned by local business people seems to enjoy a better success rate. Out side investors who attempt to finance private run airline don't survive. There are several reasons for that.

The other opportunity that I see opening up is the impending merge of AA and US Airways. Both these carriers serve Jamaica and I am sure that when this merge is completed some route rationalisation will nationally accur. Will MBJ lose PHL, CLT or even BOS or will MIA be the main gateway to Jamaica in AA flight route.

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