jetblueguy22
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A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Wed May 15, 2013 8:59 pm

The previous thread became quite long so part 10 is being created in order to make it easier for members. The previous thread can be found here A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9 (by iowaman Apr 30 2013 in Civil Aviation) .
Thanks!
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Wed May 15, 2013 9:02 pm

Quote:
Ponchos site has the June 13 as a good date for MSN002 FAL spotting.

Ponchos site, is that an area in TLS? I'm afraid I don't understand you ferpe.

And "spotting" means a movement I guess, going from station 40 to 30 on June 13?
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ferpe
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Wed May 15, 2013 9:05 pm

Ponchos site is here http://avia.superforum.fr/ and it had a little bird singing 13 June for MSN002 today  Wow!
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Wed May 15, 2013 9:11 pm

Oh, you mean aviaponcho's website  
Quote:
So with that, lets speculate wild for a while:

MSN001 flies mid June

MSN003 flies mid July

MSN002 flies mid October

July is too soon for MSN003 I think, August is more likely. In one of the earlier thread we calculated that MSN003 should roll out from station 30 during the Bourget airshow. But you need to add at least another month for ground tests, painting and engine attachment.
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EPA001
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Wed May 15, 2013 10:29 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
July is too soon for MSN003 I think, August is more likely.

I tend to agree with that. August would still be good enough I guess. But to keep up with the planned flight test schedule it should be ready by that time to enter that test program.
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 5:20 am

A new angle of MSN001 from the A350XWB blog.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jqf6Y51jZ2k/UZK2ZGQOvzI/AAAAAAAAEHE/6qlcJyQ0IXA/s1600/roolout130513.jpg

The proportions are just right in my opinion.
BV
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 6:31 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 5):
The proportions are just right in my opinion.

Not least from that angle. It looks almost perfect. (Stupid thing to say, I know, but it's going to be an absolute delight seeing these things at airports from next year!)
 
AF185
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 6:59 am

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 5):
A new angle of MSN001 from the A350XWB blog.

What a beautiful bird!! Can't wait to see it flying
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 8:05 am

Quoting ferpe (Reply 2):
Ponchos site is here http://avia.superforum.fr/ and it had a little bird singing 13 June for MSN002 today

Thanks, I now found the thread. I don't speak any French so I put it through Google Translate:

Quote:
Arrival of MSN 2 Fal for June 13

Isn't that a bit late? I expected MSN2 to be in FAL now.

The whole translation gives me:

Quote:
Arrival of MSN 2 Fal for June 13 will be the first version with commercial and A350 800 that this will ever but soon boot tray for the A350 in 1000

Google Translate messed this up but I have no idea what he means with the -800 and -1000?

The little bird also confirms first flight for June 11.

[Edited 2013-05-16 01:07:15]
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Bogi
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 8:12 am

Beautiful from afar (350.blogspot)


"The first start of the jet's twin engines, produced by Rolls-Royce Holdings PLC (RYCEY, RR.LN), could come as early as Friday, said the people familiar with the process."

http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2013...us-a350-nears-key-electrical-tests
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 8:50 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 8):

Ask me for translation 
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 8:52 am

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 10):
Ask me for translation

Dear Aviaponcho,

Can you please translate?

Sincerely,

Starbucks   
 
Aviaponcho
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 9:02 am

It's done over there


:D

[Edited 2013-05-16 02:28:59]
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 9:09 am

Thanks for the translation.

Smart move for Airbus to put the A350-1000 before the A350-800 IMO    This could EIS the -1000 in 2016, 3 to 4 years before the 777X EIS  scratchchin 

[Edited 2013-05-16 02:11:12]
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 9:12 am

KarelXWB, indeed without accelerating A350-1000 scheduled it frees slots for more and earlier -1000 slots
 
pugman211
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 9:36 am

It would make sense to produce the A35J next, but I suppose it depends on where they are upto on the program. Would the A35J sections fit inside the current Beluga?
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 9:37 am

Pugman, it should ! next Beluga is for late in this decade
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 9:53 am

I thought it would, and I hope they do make it the next variant.
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 10:01 am

@Pugman211 any news on wing transport? Will we see another set of wings being transported to Bremen later this month?
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 11:52 am

I would imagine so, MSN 004 (both wings) had the L/E painted beginning of May, but I believe that the wings required some additional work before they are sent to Bremen. Will try to get an update.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 11:58 am

Excellent.

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 19):
MSN 004 (both wings) had the L/E painted beginning of May

This also confirms my suspicion that the wings of last month were for the EF2 section.

Thus, MSN4 should enter FAL by the end of July (or maybe a bit later).
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ferpe
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 12:53 pm

Beochien at Avia forum has found the little brother of MSN001, msn01:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/raton_laveur_animal_animaux_zoo_zps1cf1e5a3.jpg


He looks like he is wondering where his big mate went....     
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 12:55 pm

Now that's really cute. A raccoon bastard.
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 12:58 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 13):
Smart move for Airbus to put the A350-1000 before the A350-800 IMO.   

The only thing pushing back the A350-800 EIS is the reluctance of the current customers for the type to take delivery, so I wonder if Qatar and the others have told Airbus they don't want it in 2016?
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 1:12 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
The only thing pushing back the A350-800 EIS is the reluctance of the current customers for the type to take delivery, so I wonder if Qatar and the others have told Airbus they don't want it in 2016?

Apologies if I'm misinformed, but didn't Qatar convert its 20 -800s into 3 x -900s and 17 x -1000s ?

Quote:
The State of Qatar’s national airline, Qatar Airways and Airbus have signed an amendment to convert its existing firm order for twenty (20) A350-800s, forty (40) A350-900s and twenty (20) A350-1000s to forty three (43) A350-900s and thirty seven (37) A350-1000s. Qatar Airways’ total order for A350 XWB aircraft remains at eighty (80) aircraft.
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...dorses-the-larger-a350-xwb-models/

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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 1:14 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
I wonder if Qatar and the others have told Airbus they don't want it in 2016?

Qatar don't want it at all. Ever. In fact, they say it's been cancelled.
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 1:15 pm

I believe only 2 customers were/are scheduled to take delivery of the -800 in 2016 and it is reasonable to think they found a way to put the delivery further back into 2017.

Now if Leahy gets its dedicated assembly line for the -1000 and if Airbus can EIS it into 2016, that could explain where all those new orders are coming from.

[Edited 2013-05-16 06:16:49]
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 1:37 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 26):
Now if Leahy gets its dedicated assembly line for the -1000 and if Airbus can EIS it into 2016, that could explain where all those new orders are coming from.

Airbus are going to need to run this by RR first as the TXWB-97 is not scheduled for first flight until 2016, I'm sure this can be pushed up but the decision will have to be made soon...
BV
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 1:40 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 27):
Airbus are going to need to run this by RR first

That is true. Same story for the main landing gear.
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 2:08 pm

Any ideas for a time line of rollout of the first dozen A/C and which A/C are for which airline?

Something like what 747classic did over on the 747-8 production thread.

Quote:
L/N 1420 - 747-8R7F, RC501, serial number 35808, first test aircraft, light Boeing livery N747EX, based at KBFI.
L/N 1421 - 747-8KZF, RC521, serial number 36136, second test aircraft, light Boeing livery, N5017Q,based at KVCV.
L/N 1422 - 747-8KZF, RC522, serial number 36137, third test aircraft,light Boeing livery, N50217, now at KIWA
L/N 1423 - 747-8R7F, RC502, serial number 35806, first production aircraft for Cargolux, painted grey, KPAE flight line
L/N 1424 - 747-8R7F, RC503, serial number 35807, 4th test aircraft, new Cargolux livery, N5573S, KPAE flight line
L/N 1425 - 747-8HTF, RC541, serial number 37132, KAL Cargo #1, (leased GuAP), full livery, HL7609, KPAE flight line
L/N 1426 - 747-8HTF, RC542, serial number 37133, KAL Cargo #2, (leased GuAP), full livery, HL7610, KPAE flight line
L/N 1427 - 747-867F, RCXXX, serial number 39238, CPA/CX #1, future registration B-LJA, in assembly, slant#1 position
L/N 1428 - 747-867F, RCXXX, serial number 39239, CPA/CX #2, future registration B-LJB, in assembly, slant#2 position
L/N 1429 unk. -8F, in assembly
L/N 1430 unk. -8F, in assembly
L/N 1431 unk. -8F, in assembly
L/N 1432 unk. -8F, in assembly
L/N 1433 unk. -8F, in assembly
L/N 1434 - 747-8XX, RC001, serial number ---------, First 747-8I test aircraft, destined for a BBJ customer in Kuwait, wing assembly and section 41 assembly started.


[Edited 2013-05-16 07:12:32]

Thanks KarelXWB


[Edited 2013-05-16 07:13:57]
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 2:09 pm

Quote:
Any ideas for a time line of rollout of the first dozen A/C and which A/C are for which airline?

I will work on that soon.
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r2rho
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 2:19 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 8):
Arrival of MSN 2 Fal for June 13
Isn't that a bit late? I expected MSN2 to be in FAL now.

As I understand it: to get the A350 certified before the end of 2014 it's important to get MSN1, MSN2 and MSN3 into the air this year because as you can see in the chart these frames will do all the heavy work. MSN4 and MSN5 can easily follow next year because they will do light work.

As far as I know those 3 heavy fit frames will fly this year. Sure the schedule is tight but doable.

As I said in the previous thread before it was closed, I still think it is very/too tight for the type certificate. Remember that MSN2 will take much longer to assemble as it is the 1st cabin aircraft. Surely lots of little surprises to be discovered there. It should still be in the air by end of the year but I guess it will be late Fall.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 9):
"The first start of the jet's twin engines, produced by Rolls-Royce Holdings PLC (RYCEY, RR.LN), could come as early as Friday, said the people familiar with the process."

No, too soon, we haven't even seen APU runs yet. I think we can bet/hope for APU runs & ground tests next week, engine runs by end of may. Taxi tests beginning of June... enabling FF the week before Le Bourget as rumored in the previous thread   
 
starbucks
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 2:44 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 31):
No, too soon, we haven't even seen APU runs yet. I think we can bet/hope for APU runs & ground tests next week, engine runs by end of may. Taxi tests beginning of June... enabling FF the week before Le Bourget as rumored in the previous thread

Rumors after rollout were that the APU could run as early as Wednesday (Yesterday)
Nothing has been confirmed, but it could be that is ran already  
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 3:25 pm

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 27):
Airbus are going to need to run this by RR first as the TXWB-97 is not scheduled for first flight until 2016, I'm sure this can be pushed up but the decision will have to be made soon...

I'm not so sure it will be that easy. Original EIS of the -1000 was rather optimistic IMO (end of 2015), and after Airbus changed the design to enable HGW it was said EIS would be delayed to 2017 as a result of RR having to redesign the T-XWB (higher thrust requirements, resulting in a bigger core IIRC). Further postponement of the -800 will sure help Airbus getting the -1000 ready to fly 2nd half of 2016, but it would need at least 9 months of test flights as well.

Don't forget original EIS of the -1000 at the end of 2015 also when Airbus expected the -900 to EIS in 2013. This will now be Q3 2014 at the earliest, this delay will also have its effect on the -1000 (as the 787-8 delays resulted in a later EIS of the 787-9 as well).
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 3:33 pm

In regards to the possible Paris fly bye do you think the Alfa-Max test is off the table....   
 
pugman211
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 4:02 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 20):
This also confirms my suspicion that the wings of last month were for the EF2 section.

I'm not 100% certain. All the wings I have seen at the moment seem to be MSN allocated frames. I think, MSN 002 is still at Bremen, whereas MSN 004 is still in UK, but going to Bremen very soon. We know where 001 + 003 are.
 
BoeingVista
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 4:35 pm

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 33):
Don't forget original EIS of the -1000 at the end of 2015 also when Airbus expected the -900 to EIS in 2013. This will now be Q3 2014 at the earliest, this delay will also have its effect on the -1000 (as the 787-8 delays resulted in a later EIS of the 787-9 as well).

Yes but the -800 was then scheduled for 2014, ie 1 year after the -900.

If the -800 is shuffled backwards 2015 FF for the -1000 should be possible if the engine is available and from that 2016 EIS should also be possible.
BV
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 4:46 pm

Quoting transaeroyyz (Reply 34):
In regards to the possible Paris fly bye do you think the Alfa-Max test is off the table....   

I say combine the visit to Paris and the difficult parts of the flight test plan  the crowds demand live testing
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 4:55 pm

Quoting transaeroyyz (Reply 34):
In regards to the possible Paris fly bye do you think the Alfa-Max test is off the table....   

To do that you will need a lot of trees.... LOL

CANT WAIT... the suspense ... I hope at least I can see the Engine run test and rejected take off....

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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 4:56 pm

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 35):
I'm not 100% certain. All the wings I have seen at the moment seem to be MSN allocated frames. I think, MSN 002 is still at Bremen, whereas MSN 004 is still in UK, but going to Bremen very soon. We know where 001 + 003 are.

Hmm but you said:

> March 13: The wings of MSN002 were transported to Bremen today by Beluga. I only saw the R/H wing leave, but assume the L/H already went.
> April 23: The only update I have is there will be another set of wings ready for transport to Bremen in the coming weeks.

We also know that the wings stay 1 month in Bremen so MSN002 wings have to be in TLS now and the wings from April 23 should be for EF2? And MSN4 wings are currently being prepared for transport to Bremen.

[Edited 2013-05-16 09:59:28]
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pugman211
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 5:22 pm

I think where i've been confused is the wings for April 23 could possibly be for MSN 004 (like I said, they required some additional work, but I dont know what that was).

I will try to get a fresh update next week.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 5:28 pm

Thanks for the clarification Pugman211.

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 40):
I will try to get a fresh update next week.

Great! And maybe you can also find out why:

> The wings for MSN002 are still in Bremen, why is it taken so long? Is it related to the cabin?
> Where are the wings for EF2, have they been shipped before MSN002?

Thanks in advance  

[Edited 2013-05-16 10:46:30]
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ferpe
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 5:39 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 41):
Why is there additional work on the MSN4 wings?

If Pugman is in the painting the wings get fabricated complete in Broughton, then I would guess get painted and then there is part of the wing avionics which gets fitted at Broughton as well (part of the fuel system electronics if I remember right), not all electrics get fitted at Bremen.

You can find all the facts in one of the early threads (I find it easier to go out and do a Google search with some words like airliners in them then sift through these threads to try and find the posts  ).
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 5:43 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 42):
If Pugman is in the painting the wings get fabricated complete in Broughton, then I would guess get painted and then there is part of the wing avionics which gets fitted at Broughton as well (part of the fuel system electronics if I remember right), not all electrics get fitted at Bremen.

I see, I first understood the MSN4 wings require work in Broughton than MSN1 so forget my second question  

[Edited 2013-05-16 10:45:43]
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ferpe
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 6:03 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 42):
You can find all the facts in one of the early threads (I find it easier to go out and do a Google search with some words like airliners in them then sift through these threads to try and find the posts  ).

I found it, it is Bigsmile (one of our in the know persons  ) who informs us that Broughton actually fits the fuel and hydralics after wing completion, Bremen then puts on the high lift stuff and finishes the wings (Thread 1 post 43, 18 moons ago, does time fly  Wow! ).
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 6:14 pm

Quoting ferpe (Reply 42):
(I find it easier to go out and do a Google search with some words like airliners in them then sift through these threads to try and find the posts  ).

Absolutely agree. If you type into google 'site:airliners.net' before what you are searching for it will only search this site.

tortugamon
 
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 6:59 pm

Quote:
1) MSN001 First Flight 11 june

Still in line with the other rumors. Be aware this is a "window", it could slip if an issue shows up. Weather conditions could be a b***h sometimes  The week of June 10 would be a safer bet.

Quote:
2) MSN002 FAL Start 13 june

EADS chief financial officer Harald Wilhelm now said that Airbus is preparing MSN002 to enter the assembly line "soon".

This still surprises me though, I would have expected it in FAL now. The wings for MSN002 are also longer in Bremen than usual so what's going on   

Quote:
3) MSN003 currently in station 30 until June 20th

Funny, in one of the earlier threads ferpe had calculated a roll out from station 30 on June 17.

That makes a total of 6 weeks faster assembly time than MSN001.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 45):
Absolutely agree. If you type into google 'site:airliners.net' before what you are searching for it will only search this site.

That's how I search in almost every site.

[Edited 2013-05-16 12:07:43]
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Semaex
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Thu May 16, 2013 7:11 pm

I just can't resist saying it now:

They could have done a better paintjob on the sunglasses. I think it looks strange that they followed the contours of the windows. Instead they should have drawn the black paint more horizontal, to give it the mean look the CGIs were giving us ahead of production....
Truely hope they're going to change it on the upcoming test frames.
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TheSultanOfWing
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RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Fri May 17, 2013 3:06 pm

Getting more excited about this aircraft!
Let's throw in a bit of fuel, go taxi and do a few aborted take off's while we're there, strap on some parachutes at the back of a few Airbus pilots.....and FLY!

I ignored the troll thread about the A350 looks, but me too would like to report I quite like the looks!
Can't wait till B787'S and A350's are a common sight, anywhere; even where I live!


Please keep us updated with the nitty gritty in these oh-so critical weeks ahead!
I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
 
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KarelXWB
Crew
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:13 pm

RE: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10

Sat May 18, 2013 5:37 pm

According the little bird, MSN001 will roll out from the C63 hangar on Monday and than the APU will be started for the very first time.
Close, but no cigar http://vine.co/v/OjqeYWWpVWK