ojas
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Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 4:16 am

Effective 02nd October, EK will upgrade it's DXB - BNE - AKL run to an A380 thus making AKL a triple daily A380 operation. The second BNE flight which is via SIN is a B77W

http://www.ausbt.com.au/emirates-bri...s-airbus-a380-to-brisbane-auckland
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mariner
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 4:18 am

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):

Effective 02nd October, EK will upgrade it's DXB - BNE - AKL run to an A380 thus making AKL a triple daily A380 operation.


It's a nice skite for AKL:

http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/double-decker-plane-goes-triple-ng-140172

"Emirates says Auckland will be the first airport outside the Dubai hub to have three scheduled A380 aircraft on the ground at same time."

 

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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 5:10 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
It's a nice skite for AKL

Now, do the trans-Tasman flights see a lot of Australian and Kiwi O&D pax, or mostly through pax connecting onwards to Southeast Asia, DXB, and points beyond? If the latter, I wonder if it could be time to consider a nonstop DXB-AKL service. Surely this could be done on the 77L?
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 5:22 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 2):
Now, do the trans-Tasman flights see a lot of Australian and Kiwi O&D pax, or mostly through pax connecting onwards to Southeast Asia, DXB, and points beyond? If the latter, I wonder if it could be time to consider a nonstop DXB-AKL service.

I've just booked a trip on Emirates today - AKL-BNE returning SYD-AKL - for July. Going there was price (a great J fare) and coming back was partly price (good but not great fare) and partly the A380.

There is a considerable amount of Kiwi/Oz - solely trans-Tasman - traffic on Emirates which I assume will only increase with the Qantas alliance.

AKL-DXB? Dunno, but I doubt it. With the present routings, Emirates gets two bites of the cherry. But - who knows?

mariner

[Edited 2013-05-15 22:33:27]
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 5:52 am

Another headline for this thread would be... EK Announces Third Daily A380 Route to AKL

Quoting mariner (Reply 3):
AKL-DXB? Dunno, but I doubt it.

I doubt it too. Currently they get to fly their planes on another leg when they would otherwise be sitting idle on the tarmacs of BNE, MEL and SYD. This way they get to haul both people and cargo to/from Oz's eastern seaboard (and beyond) to/from New Zealand's largest city, without too much risk and using no extra aircraft.
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 6:16 am

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 2):
Now, do the trans-Tasman flights see a lot of Australian and Kiwi O&D pax, or mostly through pax connecting onwards to Southeast Asia, DXB, and points beyond? If the latter, I wonder if it could be time to consider a nonstop DXB-AKL service. Surely this could be done on the 77L?

95% Transtasman, and loads are hit or miss - they do get heavy loads sometimes but both my A380 flights last week had 225 on one and 165 on the other. MEL is the same.
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 6:47 am

As a Y passenger AKL-DXB direct wouldn't be that appealing, especially if connecting to somewhere else once reaching DXB!
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 7:30 am

Good to see BNE get its first scheduled A380 service.

Hopefully this increase in capacity is well received.
 
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 7:38 am

How will this A380 service affect the QF/EK codeshare agreement on the Tasman in regards to maintaining the current seat numbers? Will this upgrade mean QF can remove a B738 off the route for deployment to say ADL-AKL?
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 8:50 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):
How will this A380 service affect the QF/EK codeshare agreement on the Tasman in regards to maintaining the current seat numbers? Will this upgrade mean QF can remove a B738 off the route for deployment to say ADL-AKL?

Maybe. One thing is for sure - EK can only have 4 flights a day T-T. If they want any others they'll have to put a stop to one of the flights.
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IndianicWorld
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 9:07 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 9):
Maybe. One thing is for sure - EK can only have 4 flights a day T-T. If they want any others they'll have to put a stop to one of the flights.

Is the SYD-CHC safe in the EK network? It could be operated by smaller aircraft by QF and this will free up another sector if required.
 
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 9:34 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):
How will this A380 service affect the QF/EK codeshare agreement on the Tasman in regards to maintaining the current seat numbers? Will this upgrade mean QF can remove a B738 off the route for deployment to say ADL-AKL?

I'd think if QF could they would pull a 738 off each of BNE/MEL/SYD-AKL with the EK deal and all 3 EK services now on A380s.

With some slightly tighter scheduling I wonder if QF could almost squeeze in an AKL-ADL flight with the current Jet Connect aircraft?! I think they would schedule it to connect to the EK service through ADL.

AKL 1830 ADL 2100
ADL 2215 AKL 0500

I wonder what they will do with this deal if they can't drop flights in terms of rescheduling some flights to give them more even space throughout the day. Currently all SYD/MEL/BNE/-AKL vv have several flights in the morning ex OZ and ex AKL in the evening.
 
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 10:04 am

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 11):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 8):How will this A380 service affect the QF/EK codeshare agreement on the Tasman in regards to maintaining the current seat numbers? Will this upgrade mean QF can remove a B738 off the route for deployment to say ADL-AKL?
I'd think if QF could they would pull a 738 off each of BNE/MEL/SYD-AKL with the EK deal and all 3 EK services now on A380s.

How could QF on SYD/MEL when the codeshare agreement was allowed with the current EK A380 and QF B738 services? The only way possible to free up aircraft for new routes (if the plan was to only maintain the minimum count) would be if EK put a B77W or another A380 on either SYD/BNE-AKL but EK isn't allowed 5+ services currently. The only change since the codeshare was allowed is the A380 on the BNE route so EK/QF are currently expanding beyond what was set as the minimum seating count
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ZK-NBT
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 11:29 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 12):
How could QF on SYD/MEL when the codeshare agreement was allowed with the current EK A380 and QF B738 services?

I said if they could pull a service I think they would to redeploy capacity, but my understanding is they can't do that. Is this on seats or frequencies? I.e could QF pull 2 738s from SYD-AKL and replace it with 1 larger aircraft i.e A330, 744?
 
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 5:53 pm

Just how much longer will QANTAS be around? I still believe it did a deal with the devil.
 
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 6:30 pm

Quoting ojas (Thread starter):
Effective 02nd October, EK will upgrade it's DXB - BNE - AKL run to an A380 thus making AKL a triple daily A380 operation.

Nice. How are the premium loads BNE-DXB? I assume fairly good as EK's A380s are 'premium heavy.'

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
"Emirates says Auckland will be the first airport outside the Dubai hub to have three scheduled A380 aircraft on the ground at same time."

Go Kiwi maintenance!    I wonder when LHR will have three scheduled A380s on the ground.   

Quoting mariner (Reply 3):
There is a considerable amount of Kiwi/Oz - solely trans-Tasman - traffic on Emirates which I assume will only increase with the Qantas alliance.

I thought the regulators excluded the trans-tasmanian from the alliance? Or did they just set a minimum seat count?

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 14):

Just how much longer will QANTAS be around? I still believe it did a deal with the devil.

Quite a bit longer thanks to that deal. There is tremendous opportunity for QF at a mid-east hub. I'm looking forward to see what they launch.

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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 6:48 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
I thought the regulators excluded the trans-tasmanian from the alliance? Or did they just set a minimum seat count?

The ACCC imposed capacity restrictions on trans-Tasman. Capacity must be maintained at a specified level (with an allowed small variation for force majeure) on the four common Qantas/Emirates routes.

I haven't read it for a while, but I took it to mean that each airline must maintain its individual capacity - that it isn't aggregate or joint capacity - but I could be wrong.

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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 7:14 pm

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 13):
I said if they could pull a service I think they would to redeploy capacity, but my understanding is they can't do that. Is this on seats or frequencies? I.e could QF pull 2 738s from SYD-AKL and replace it with 1 larger aircraft i.e A330, 744?

Do think we are ever going to see anything larger than a QF 738 in New Zealand in a long time.

How the heck is AKL going to handle 3x A380s at once when they have two gates?
 
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Thu May 16, 2013 10:35 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 17):
How the heck is AKL going to handle 3x A380s at once when they have two gates?

I wondered this as well, on the current schedule for October EK406 arrives at 13:45 and EK434 is set to arrive at 14:15, would 30mins be enough time to unload all passengers/cargo etc. and move the aircraft to the remote to the left of the A380 pier? The online timetables still show a 77W operating 434/435 in October so the timings might change...

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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 4:56 am

LHR has at least 4 x A380 frames on the ground around 6am. 2 x QF, 1 x EK and 1 x MH
 
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 5:06 am

Quoting ekgold (Reply 19):

They mean EK frames. AKL will have 3x EK 380's scheduled on the ground at the same time.
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 5:36 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 3):
There is a considerable amount of Kiwi/Oz - solely trans-Tasman - traffic on Emirates which I assume will only increase with the Qantas alliance.

Absolutely, EK do very well picking up a lot of TT local traffic.

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 10):
Is the SYD-CHC safe in the EK network?

Well if they were to pull it QF would have to add 360 seats. And I've heard that they uplift a significant amount of cargo on the route.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 15):
Quite a bit longer thanks to that deal. There is tremendous opportunity for QF at a mid-east hub

  

To Goosebayguy, QF is a profitable airline. While we might see some more tweaks to the international network the airline itself isn't going anywhere.
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 7:07 am

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 14):
Just how much longer will QANTAS be around? I still believe it did a deal with the devil.

To be honest the alliance will give both carriers opportunities to expand.

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know

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BenSandilands
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 7:50 am

The Brisbane developments illustrate perfectly what the partnership means.

Qantas expects that by withdrawing from the Brisbane and Perth and any Adelaide involvement in one stop flights to Europe in favour of Emirates codedshares its customers will do as expected, and hop aboard the wholesaling operation that those codeshares will become.

As the ACCC noted in its approval of the deal, there are many alternatives for what are displaced Qantas customers.

Qantas to Europe is now a daily A380 operation to hub Dubai from both Sydney and Melbourne, with each flight continuing to Heathrow.

The rhetoric from Qantas as to what this will mean to its operations has been turned right down as the end of the financial year draws nearer. That reporting period includes three full months of the Emirates partnership and the final few weeks of the Frankfurt service.

The only references to any Qantas expansion under the arrangement are to the possible use of 787-9s to re-open routes to Europe via Dubai after 2016, in the last two years of the five year approval period. Those references did not deal with the bilateral negotiations that would be required or reference the very clear signals from the EU that it is cautious about allowing other carriers to act as proxies for Emirates (a silly political nonsense in my opinion).

On a factual basis there is no evidence that Qantas has anything but vague intentions of using the partnership to expand its activities on the kangaroo routes, including from Australian cities other than Sydney and Melbourne.

The official focus in Qantas and to the financial community has been its reduction of exposure to the perceived risk of the long haul operation by retreating into a partnership where its former customers fly in Emirates jets.

However I don't agree with the view that Qantas may cease to exist although the buy-out plan in 2006 would have made that a distinct risk had that deal proceeded because of the financial consequences for the leveraged buyout in the subsequent GFC.

I do think that it will diminish Qantas and its brand power.

The test of these concerns will be in the BITRE statistics for the first year of its operation, and in the disclosures we can expect in the full year financials in relation to a full quarter operation on the partnership in the financial year to 30 June.
 
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 8:11 am

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 4):
I doubt it too. Currently they get to fly their planes on another leg when they would otherwise be sitting idle on the tarmacs of BNE, MEL and SYD. This way they get to haul both people and cargo to/from Oz's eastern seaboard (and beyond) to/from New Zealand's largest city, without too much risk and using no extra aircraf

Are these TT flights cargo-heavy? When I flew TT on EK a couple of years back, the flights were not particularly full (although admittedly this is purely anecdotal evidence).
 
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 8:13 am

Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 23):
The test of these concerns will be in the BITRE statistics for the first year of its operation, and in the disclosures we can expect in the full year financials in relation to a full quarter operation on the partnership in the financial year to 30 June

I hope no one is expecting any kind of magic bullet.

I don't expect the alliance to reach its full potential for at least a year, possibly two.

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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 8:33 am

Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 23):
The Brisbane developments illustrate perfectly what the partnership means

Sorry Ben, but IMHO this doesn't so much speak to the EK-QF partnership as much as PER's incompetence.

Quoting mariner (Reply 25):
I don't expect the alliance to reach its full potential for at least a year, possibly two.

I was about to say the same. Looking at the Q4 FY13 figures, even if the quarter was fully Emiratesised, is not a sound indication of how the alliance is going to work out. FY14 will be the first time that we can really comment on how successful it has been.
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BenSandilands
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 8:57 am

Point taken. Perth's loss is not just an A380 to Dubai but quite possibly if EK was able to do so within its traffic entitlements an A380 from Perth to Auckland.

I have a hunch that would have caused a substantial rise in NZ tourism in WA.

But at least in Brisbane, where we face a single long runway capacity farce until the second long runway impasse is overcome, no sooner than 2020, we get a lead as to how to use size to overcome those problems. I doubt there will be many single aisle trans Tasman services into Brisbane by 2020.

Which incidentally is why I would expect to see A380s using Badgerys Creek from the day it opens. (OK, it may be a lost cause but if it is, Sydney will be an economic loser too.)
 
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mariner
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 9:05 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 26):
I was about to say the same. Looking at the Q4 FY13 figures, even if the quarter was fully Emiratesised, is not a sound indication of how the alliance is going to work out. FY14 will be the first time that we can really comment on how successful it has been.

  

We seem to be wondering off topic, but Mr. Joyce has already said that this year will be tough financially, like Virgin Australia, in part because of the domestic market share war amd in part because of the set-up costs of the Emirates alliance (transferring from SIN to DXB - $50 million).

But he also said that he expects the airline to start seeing the benefit of the alliance in 2014, and the financial analysts agree. Deutsche Bank just lowered its profit guidance but maintained its rating on the shares.

I am always surprised at the cynicism that surrounds this alliance but it has some ironies - and I love irony.

Last year, a ginger group, led by Dixon, Singleton and others attempted to destabilise and undermine Joyce and the alliance. They were swept aside by events (such as the ACCC approval).

The irony is that they owe Alan Joyce a big thank you.

Because of Joyce's determination, Dixon, Singleton & Co could have almost doubled their money on any Qantas shares they bought last year and sold at this year's recent peak.  

mariner

[Edited 2013-05-17 02:06:43]
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 9:25 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 28):
Deutsche Bank just lowered its profit guidance but maintained its rating on the shares.

  

I think that this is something that is often forgotten: for all of its faults IIRC QF is the only Western legacy carrier to have investment grade rating.
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BenSandilands
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 9:32 am

mariner,

The sales revenue benefit from the Emirates traffic eventuates will go straight to the P and L accounts once the customer has flown the sectors.

The BITRE stats will be published two to three months after carriage.

Thus the tangible benefits of the partnership will be accounted for promptly, whatever the intangible benefits.

We will not need to wait one or two years to know how successful this has been, or otherwise.

[Edited 2013-05-17 02:35:21]
 
RyanairGuru
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 9:48 am

Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 30):
The BITRE stats will be published two to three months after carriage.

On a straight up-down basis then you're right. But I think it will take longer for the dust to settle. There are QF FFs who are not happy with the switch to DXB and could be out looking for another carrier, probably SQ. On the other hand we all know that there FFs moving over from other carriers to QF post-EK. When all is said and done I expect the numbers to be pretty flat, but right now there is some volatility.
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mariner
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Fri May 17, 2013 10:29 am

Quoting BenSandilands (Reply 30):
We will not need to wait one or two years to know how successful this has been, or otherwise.

I will.

We (old timers like me) always used to give airlines a year or two for a route to mature, it is only these days that people seem to demand that to happen overnight.

This is more than a new route, this is a refashioning of an entire system - the Kangaroo route(s) - which has existed for decades, a new connection point for many, a new stopover for some. There may, or may not, be initial resistance.

I know - for example - that some Jewish passengers are wary of DXB, some of my Jewish friends have raised the question, and some may need the experience of others to encourage them.

A number of my gay friends have an eyebrow slightly raised about Dubai. For all I reassure them that they will be fine, a certain nervousness exists and they may need the experience of others to encourage them.

There may be people, these days, who won't feel comfortable even passing through a Muslim country, or may want the experience of others to reassure them.

They are a small percentage of the travelling public? Maybe, but that percentage can influence stats and I have no doubt there will be some who are testing the water - or the sand - and others may be reluctant to do so, at least in the first instance.

I am sure there are some who have a preference for SIN, a favourite hotel, or because they like Asian food, or who have business relationships there that have not yet developed in Dubai. New business relationships may develop but that will take some time.

SIN is a well-known quantity for Qantas pax. DXB may be so for Emirates pax, but not necessarily for Qantas pax.

To a real extent, a re-education of the passengers has to happen, some or many of them, and that takes time and may affect the early stats.

So - others can rush to judgement. I'll give it a year or two.

mariner
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ekgold
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Sat May 18, 2013 5:47 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 32):
A number of my gay friends have an eyebrow slightly raised about Dubai. For all I reassure them that they will be fine, a certain nervousness exists and they may need the experience of others to encourage them.

Gay tourists should not have a problem. There are more than enough outwardly gay residents in dubai including working for EK to ensure that they will not be singled out. Heterosexuals in Dubai cannot display public displays of affection and don't in most cases. Gays should follow the same lead here. Also, given the amount of tourism/business traffic here, it is not uncommon for 2 males to share a twin bed room in Dubai. Just don't go asking for the Queen size bed when checking in.......            
 
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RE: Emirates Announces A380 Services To BNE From 02OCT

Sat May 18, 2013 6:02 am

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 24):
Are these TT flights cargo-heavy? When I flew TT on EK a couple of years back, the flights were not particularly full (although admittedly this is purely anecdotal evidence).

Again, anecdotal evidence but my recent flights have also been fairly empty (AKL-MEL last week with approx 150 on board). This is one of the reasons I love using them! It's a different story over school holidays though.
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