tortugamon
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Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Mon May 20, 2013 6:14 pm

There is an article in flight global about a HGW Max 8. The current Max 8 range is projected to be about 3,620nm. How much further range would be useful? Will this reignite talks about a TATL 737? The gc distance between EWR/JFK/PHL/BOS and CDG/AMS/LGW/MAN/STN/BHX/MAD/LIS/DUB is no more than 3,247nm. 752 with winglets range is 4,100.

"Another option Boeing is considering is launching a high gross weight version of the 737 Max 8, Taylor says. That means beefing up the landing gear and structure to absorb the same maximum take-off weight carried by the standard Max 9 version, he says."

"We certainly could sell it," Taylor says. "But we're still looking at what is the right product."

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...on-to-hit-bbj-range-target-386097/

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lightsaber
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RE: Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Tue May 21, 2013 12:56 am

The article was on a business jet version, but I think we can discuss commercial variants as the main volume market.   

A high MTOW -8MAX for the BBJ market makes sense if the market demands 7,000nm range.

Quoting tortugamon (Thread starter):
Will this reignite talks about a TATL 737?

There will be a TATL 737MAX or A321NEO. When is the question. Which will be first to the niche? 3,800nm is min TATL but 4,100nm+ is better. An early high MTOW -8MAX should be able to do 4000nm! Engine improvements will creep that range up and it would be a very competitive TATL hauler.


We already know Bombardier could make a TATL version of the CS100. Will Boeing concede that market? I think neither Boeing nor Airbus will.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...siness-class-cseries-order-366588/

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sunrisevalley
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RE: Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Tue May 21, 2013 1:37 am

Quoting tortugamon (Thread starter):
The gc distance between EWR/JFK/PHL/BOS and CDG/AMS/LGW/MAN/STN/BHX/MAD/LIS/DUB is no more than 3,247nm

Typically PHL-FRA has an airways distance of about 3700nm according to FlightAware. Flight time for a typical 485K cruise is typically beween 7hr and 7.30min. Westbound is about 1 hr longer. Not sure what that would be on a 737MAX
The westbound ESAD is probably pushing 4200nm Perhaps this city pair are outside of what is possible.
 
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RE: Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Tue May 21, 2013 3:09 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 2):
The westbound ESAD is probably pushing 4200nm Perhaps this city pair are outside of what is possible.

Probably at EIS that city pair will be out of range. But CDG, MAD, LIS, and all of Britain and Ireland will be within range. Its a nice start.

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tortugamon
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RE: Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Tue May 21, 2013 4:27 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 1):
We already know Bombardier could make a TATL version of the CS100. Will Boeing concede that market? I think neither Boeing nor Airbus will.

Its good to see a third player pushing the big two to make changes and improvements.  
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 2):
Typically PHL-FRA has an airways distance of about 3700nm

Right, and that is why I did not include FRA in my list of possible city pairs  . There are three direct A330/340 flights every day and once US becomes AA that may decline further to a couple narrow bodies so it definitely could be a candidate. Add OSL and BRU to the European side of the PHL/BOS/EWR/JFK equation as well.

I think its a great idea and I expect Airbus is doing something very similar. Not that any of this will stop people from speculating about a new 757 replacement.

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RE: Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Tue May 21, 2013 3:11 pm

Beoing should take care of an B757-200 replacement. That could be a B738 or B739 HGW
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2travel2know2
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RE: Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Tue May 21, 2013 3:25 pm

A B737max7HGW would probably be a better bet for thin TATL between North-East USA/Eastern Canada and Eire/UK/North-West Spain-Portugal.
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RE: Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Wed May 22, 2013 4:05 am

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 6):
A B737max7HGW would probably be a better bet for thin TATL between North-East USA/Eastern Canada and Eire/UK/North-West Spain-Portugal.

   and the mid-east to Europe. (excluding the regions you just noted, interestingly enough...) A HGW version would offer a plane with 3000nm to 3200nm 'still air' range. That would be interesting to see.

My rumor mill insists that Airbus/Pratt will try to make the A321NEO TATL ready. Its a question of when, not if.

So Boeing will have to act at some point. The question is when?


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RE: Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Wed May 22, 2013 5:51 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
and the mid-east to Europe.

and maybe the middle east to Asia. Surprisingly SIN, KUL, PEK, CAN, SZX, CSX, WUH, HKG, & SGN are all between 3000-3200nm from DXB/DWC. There are probably some mountains to contend with though. Those pesky Himalayas.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 6):
A B737max7HGW

That 73GER/319ER did not sell very well, I wonder if it needs to be the size of a Max 8/320 NEO to have enough Y/Y to make it work.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 7):
A321NEO TATL ready

A 4,100nm A321 would be a beast.

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RE: Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Wed May 22, 2013 7:38 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 8):

A 4,100nm A321 would be a beast.

That should drag off to the forest and bury any last 757 resurrection ideas.
What the...?
 
2travel2know2
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RE: Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Wed May 22, 2013 2:21 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 8):
That 73GER/319ER did not sell very well, I wonder if it needs to be the size of a Max 8/320 NEO to have enough Y/Y to make it work.

I wasn't writing about the B737-700ER but the B737-700 - currently flown 3000nm non-stop by CM.
Be any B737, It also depends on what kind of J/Y class cabin configuration the airline wants for the aircraft and the traffic those routes are going to have.
Currently for airlines, B737-700ER, B737-700 and -600 are very niche aircraft for specific route/airport needs.
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RE: Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Wed May 22, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting chieft (Reply 5):
Beoing should take care of an B757-200 replacement.

Unless Boeing restarts the - eh, skip it.  
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RE: Boeing To Offer 737 Max 8 High Gross Weight?

Wed May 22, 2013 5:42 pm

In no shape or form would a A321 be described as a beast. IMO it looks out of proportion, has been relatievly underpowered and with feeble looking landing gear and small looking engines. Not anything to fulfill the beast category for me.