JDFLYVC10
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Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 6:12 pm

Bula!

Was at the FJ A330-200 event last night at LAX. Great new product, Biz class you want row 1, and Economy seats/VOD is super! FIJI Airways has a wonderful new product!

After the open house, the boys and I hit the IN-N-OUT next to 24R. Two words "Animal Fries". This aviation honk, like us, started chatting about planes after he heard our conversation. He told us he was a mechanic for HA at HNL and was plane spotting on the west coast.

Then from nowhere came, "did you hear about Hawaiians lease for 777?" Huh, what... no. "YA, six are going to be leased, with the 1st arriving by the end of the year for the new international expansion" he said. "I thought Zander release that information already, because we had Boeing guys at the shop right before I left".

We did find hard to believe, but HA is making "BANK" on the northwest Pacific, one never knows.

Vanuinui vinaka ki na siga ni kua
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A388
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 6:24 pm

I find this very hard to believe as HA already has the A350 on order. If it was actually true, I'm sure this news would have been known/published by now.

A388
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 6:30 pm

Not going to get my hopes up, but this could actually make a lot of sense for them. It's very believable. They could feel that 2017 is too long for the capabilities the A358 will offer them. They have 6 A358s on order. They could simply lease these 777s for 3-4 years, or incorporate into their long term fleet strategy, possibly accelerating 767 retirements or converting them to A332 orders. Or just taking them all.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
BMI727
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 6:41 pm

Quoting jdflyvc10 (Thread starter):
Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Highly unlikely.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
 
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scbriml
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 6:52 pm

I think there are three options here:

1 - it's not happening.
2 - ha ha ha, pull the other one.
3 - oink oink flap, is that a flying pig I just saw?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
 
AR385
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 7:17 pm

This makes absolutely no sense. Maybe one for a specific route, like LA going for 5 A340s for very particular routes they needed to fly nonstop, but 6 777s on an airline with the network size of HA and A350s on order? Not gonna happen. That mechanic was having some fun.
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 7:23 pm

Uh, this makes far too much sense to simply dismiss like an outlandish practical joke...

Not saying its going to happen or I often believe these employee stories, but there are ample reasons to do it. Aircraft with 50+ more seats for profitable Asian routes and longer range instead of waiting 4-5 years for it.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
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Stitch
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 7:32 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 1):
I find this very hard to believe as HA already has the A350 on order. If it was actually true, I'm sure this news would have been known/published by now.

If HA is leasing, then it could be interim lift until the A350s arrive.
 
mcoatc
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 7:45 pm

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2):
They have 6 A358s on order. They could simply lease these 777s for 3-4 years, or incorporate into their long term fleet strategy, possibly accelerating 767 retirements or converting them to A332 orders. Or just taking them all.

I highly doubt Boeing would be interested in a 3-4 year lease of new frames. What other than the 772ER would HA be interested in? The 77W is a beast and a massive upguage in capacity, and I cannot see them needing the 77L.

There is no way Boeing is going to short-term lease new 772's because they're not really in demand now, let alone 5 years from now. That's 6 fairly new birds that have to be placed again in 5 years, when most carriers are going to be dumping theirs. I could see this being placement of used frames, but then again why wouldn't they just go back to Airbus and get their hands on more A332's?

I cannot see them wanting to replace a 763 with a 772, that's a lot more weight you're carrying around. Then again, I don't run HA, so what do I know.
 
BeachBoy
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 7:47 pm

I think he was joking.

Zander was the CEO of AQ just before Banmiller who liquidated it. Dunkerley is the current HA CEO.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 7:51 pm

Quoting mcoatc (Reply 8):
I highly doubt Boeing would be interested in a 3-4 year lease of new frames.

Boeing does not typically lease airplanes directly to customers.

As to commercial lessors who do, ALC has 10 777-300ERs on recent order, of which one is going to KL. So that leaves a possible nine available for other customers (assuming HA is interested in a 777-300ER).
 
A388
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 7:57 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
Quoting A388 (Reply 1):
I find this very hard to believe as HA already has the A350 on order. If it was actually true, I'm sure this news would have been known/published by now.

If HA is leasing, then it could be interim lift until the A350s arrive.

I was thinking of that too but leasing brandnew 777's is expensive, especially when it's only for 3-4 years. Does HA want to lease such a big airplane just for 3-4 years? Keeping them permanent also means going away from their road to standardizing around Airbus so when looking at this, it also makes no sense to add another aircraft type to the fleet, especially a small fleet of 6 that is claimed here.

A388
 
LV
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 8:05 pm

Didn't HA and Boeing get in some pissing match and that's why HA bought the A330's to begin with?
 
jfk777
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 8:07 pm

The only reason Hawaiian would get 777 is to fly to Europe from HNL. They need them for the distance not the higher capacity from an A330-200. Hawaiian fits lots of seats into their A330-200, their First Class is 45 inch pitch like domestic First nothing like international J class.
 
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Polot
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 8:45 pm

Quoting mcoatc (Reply 8):
There is no way Boeing is going to short-term lease new 772's because they're not really in demand now, let alone 5 years from now. That
Quoting A388 (Reply 11):
I was thinking of that too but leasing brandnew 777's is expensive

While I don't necessarily believe the rumor, leasing 777s doesn't necessarily mean they are brand new.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 10:03 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 15):

While I don't necessarily believe the rumor, leasing 777s doesn't necessarily mean they are brand new.

Won't EK have some 773 coming onto the market soon?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
N821NW
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 10:13 pm

I have a really hard time believing this for the following reasons:
1. HA plan is to have a ALL Airbus long-haul fleet.
2. You would need to train a few crews to be certified for a sub-fleet that would only last 3-4 years, and that would be very expensive to do.
3. You would need to train a few mechanics to work on a sub-fleet that is only in service for 3-4 years, again this would very expensive to do.
4. With all the money HA would invest in a) leasing the 6 T7's b) training the crews c) training the mechanics would they even make a profit?

P.S.: You might want to take my statements with a grain of salt considering I'm a die hard Airbus fan   
If only more people understood the pure beauty of the Airbus A320 and A330 family's...
 
airbazar
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 10:21 pm

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 2):
Not going to get my hopes up, but this could actually make a lot of sense for them. It's very believable. They could feel that 2017 is too long for the capabilities the A358 will offer them.

So they won't convert to A359 because the A359 is too big, but they'll take 777's instead?  
Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 6):
Not saying its going to happen or I often believe these employee stories, but there are ample reasons to do it. Aircraft with 50+ more seats for profitable Asian routes and longer range instead of waiting 4-5 years for it.

They won't have to wait 4-5 years if they convert to A359. See above  
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 14):
The only reason Hawaiian would get 777 is to fly to Europe from HNL.

Wouldn't the A359 do that better?

For such a small fleet it would make a lot more sense to lease A333's or even A346's if they were looking for interim capacity.
 
brilondon
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 10:24 pm

This rumour is just that a rumour that is unfounded no matter the source. A mechanic? A pilot. A F/A. Any rumours coming from these guys are useless.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
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Stitch
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 10:26 pm

Quoting N821NW (Reply 17):
You would need to train a few crews to be certified for a sub-fleet that would only last 3-4 years, and that would be very expensive to do.

They have to train the 767-300 pilots on the A330-200 and I expect also training some of them on the 777 would not be a great hardship.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 10:30 pm

Lets dream a little....a 773 in HA colors at LAX would be beautiful
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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Polot
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 10:38 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 18):
They won't have to wait 4-5 years if they convert to A359. See above

If A350 production slots are full until 2017(note I do not know if that is true or not) converting their order to the A359 won't get them in their hands any faster. Even if slots are available an order conversion to something with an earlier EIS doesn't necessarily move them up in the production.

[Edited 2013-05-22 15:40:50]
 
jayunited
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Wed May 22, 2013 11:26 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 13):
The only reason Hawaiian would get 777 is to fly to Europe from HNL. They need them for the distance not the higher capacity from an A330-200. Hawaiian fits lots of seats into their A330-200, their First Class is 45 inch pitch like domestic First nothing like international J class.

You seriously do not believe that Europeans want to fly 16-17 hours to go to the beach do you?
During the off season its hard enough to convince people on the East Coast of the US to make the 10 hour journey to Hawaii when they could be in the Caribbean in 3-4 hours. If Europeans want a fun in the sun beach vacation I'm sure there are a lot of destinations that are a whole lot closer than a 16-17 hour nonstop flight to Hawaii.
And just out of curiosity how much would a round trip ticket in coach go for at today's current fuel prices on a flight like that? It most certainly would not be cheap because Hawaiian would need to charge enough to cover their own cost and then hope to make a profit on a plane that would have very few premium seats. There has been a lot of talk in previous threads on A.netters about one or two airlines wanting operating a Hawaii to Europe nonstop but how would they do a flight of this length profitably in a market that is dominated by cost conscious leisure travelers? And even if the airlines could do a flight like this profitably how would they convince passengers that Hawaii is worth the 16-17 hour flight. If you can't convince people of that it doesn't matter what type aircraft you use, you still are going to loosing money because your flying a plane filled with empty seats.
 
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gdg9
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 12:52 am

why not try and lease some more A330s instead?
@dfwtower
 
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usxguy
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 1:55 am

who said HA would be looking at NEW planes... they could be getting USED planes... who knows.
xx
 
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RayChuang
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 1:58 am

I really doubt HA will get the 777--the plane is too big for the airline. I think in the longer term, HA will phase out their entire 767 fleet in favor of A330-200's and the A350XWB-800 (which I think will be used for very long flights to Europe like HNL-LHR and full-load flights between JFK and HNL).
 
brilondon
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 3:11 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 25):
(which I think will be used for very long flights to Europe like HNL-LHR and full-load flights between JFK and HNL).

They are not going to fly direct to HNL from LHR as discussed before.

UK To HNL, Is There A Market? (by readytotaxi Jan 12 2013 in Civil Aviation)
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
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lightsaber
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 3:17 am

This sounds like too much beer or other mind altering substance was consumed.

Quoting A388 (Reply 1):
I find this very hard to believe as HA already has the A350 on order.

And small A358s at that...

Quoting Polot (Reply 14):
While I don't necessarily believe the rumor, leasing 777s doesn't necessarily mean they are brand new.

We've found a home for EK's used 773s! (non-ER)   

Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):
So they won't convert to A359 because the A359 is too big, but they'll take 777's instead?

It works in the alternate universe.  
Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):
For such a small fleet it would make a lot more sense to lease A333's or even A346's if they were looking for interim capacity.

   Or 767s or A332s... There are options. HA simply doesn't have the market for 777s.

Lightsaber
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 3:44 am

I would think at best it could be a bridge and short term. Why on earth would they want both 777s and A350s? I guess we will find out soon enough if its true. Would be cool to see them with 777s but im not gonna get my hopes up
 
jpetekyxmd80
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 4:07 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):
HA simply doesn't have the market for 777s.

Sure they do.

SYD and HND would be perfect for a 777.
The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
 
zotan
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 4:20 am

Not happening. There has been absolutely zero talk in the industry about this. People would have heard by now.
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 4:35 am

Quoting mcoatc (Reply 8):
The 77W is a beast and a massive upguage in capacity, and I cannot see them needing the 77L.

I am the first to admit that I'm no aviation expert, but the 77W seems much too large for Hawaiian's operations. What routes could they use the 77W on? Perhaps SYD? I think there's just too much capacity as it is on the LAX route. Perhaps they anticipate huge demand from China?

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 20):
Lets dream a little....a 773 in HA colors at LAX would be beautiful

I agree, it would be great to see a HA 77W! This is a rumor - wild as it may be - that I hope comes to fruition!
 
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Schweigend
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 5:03 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
If HA is leasing, then it could be interim lift until the A350s arrive.

.

Quoting Polot (Reply 14):
While I don't necessarily believe the rumor, leasing 777s doesn't necessarily mean they are brand new.

.

Quoting jpetekyxmd80 (Reply 29):
SYD and HND would be perfect for a 777.

.
I agree with all three of you. It is entirely plausible that HA might lease used 772ERs to fly Austral-Asian routes until the A350s arrive. But from whom?

And (as Stitch mentioned in reply 19) training crew who are already certified on the 767-300 is not a big leap.
 
columba
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 5:18 am

I too have a hard time believing this. The only thing which might be a possibilty that it is a short time lease till their A350s arrive.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
koruman
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 5:39 am

Quoting jayunited (Reply 22):
You seriously do not believe that Europeans want to fly 16-17 hours to go to the beach do you?

Millions already do. Check the statistics.

Huge numbers of Europeans travel each year for tropical vacations in Bali, Malaysia, Thailand, the Maldives, Mauritius and the Seychelles.

In 2011, for example, the number of Europeans visiting Bali - which takes a minimum of 18 hours even if you live near a hub - was:

France: 111,542
UK: 107,795
Germany: 84,071

To illustrate the contrast, TOTAL visitor numbers for Tahiti are below 150,000 per year.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 22):
During the off season its hard enough to convince people on the East Coast of the US to make the 10 hour journey to Hawaii when they could be in the Caribbean in 3-4 hours. If Europeans want a fun in the sun beach vacation I'm sure there are a lot of destinations that are a whole lot closer than a 16-17 hour nonstop flight to Hawaii.

Yes, but that tells you all you need to know about the general ignorance of Americans about the world beyond their shores. It doesn't tell you anything about Europeans.

I would argue that:

1. American long-haul travel is far less well-developed due to much shorter annual leave entitlements (1-2 weeks versus 5+ for most Europeans).

2. If you asked Americans earning more than $60,000 per year the following questions, most would be unable to answer correctly:

a) Which of the following tourist destinations has a Royal Palace and a Royal Mausoleum - Jamaica or Hawaii?

b) Which of the following beach destinations offers the opportunity to visit a live, erupting volcano - Jamaica or Hawaii?

c) Which of the following has a major tourist destination which is a significant location in the history of the USA - Jamaica or Hawaii?

It's just how Americans develop. They don't access media with any significant overseas content in the way that, say, New Zealanders and Indians read newspapers with a deep global focus and use international websites like bbc.co.uk to source their news. The result is a fairly homogenous pattern of ignorance about the world beyond the US mainland, which is why President Obama has to minimise his Hawaiian upbringing and why almost nobody in the USA knows that the Iolani Palace in Honolulu had electricity before the White House, or that Hawaii only ended up a US state as the culmination of a process which began with US-backed rebels overthrowing the legitimate Hawaiian government.

I suspect that more Germans than Americans would get question c) about Pearl Harbor correct. And I suspect that more citizens of EVERY other nationality could get questions a) b) and c) correct in the departure lounge of Honolulu Airport than Americans.

My point is not to belittle the USA or American people - I love them both. It's just to explain that American people's long-haul travel habits are remarkably underdeveloped compared with their European peers, and just because they equate a sandpit in Aruba to Lanikai or Hanalei Bay means nothing.

Europeans already do travel long-haul for tropical vacations.

Do I believe that Hawaiian will buy the 777? Actually, probably not. But some of their Japanese markets and their Sydney market would probably both be more profitable if operated by a 777-300ER.

[Edited 2013-05-22 22:45:36]
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 5:59 am

Wow. A rumor of HA getting 777's turns into an "ignorant Americans" diatribe. Knock me over with a feather.  

-Dave
-Dave
 
saloman
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 6:05 am

Quoting koruman (Reply 34):
My point is not to belittle the USA or American people

You did a poor job of expressing your point if that wasn't its intent. Nor did you anywhere address the fact that the previous thread on the topic includes the number of 45,552 UK visitors to Hawaii each year - hardly enough to justify an ULH route that has ample NA connection possibilities. But I guess that's not as much fun as a theory based on generalizations and stereotypes!
 
Devilfish
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 6:12 am

Quoting Schweigend (Reply 32):
It is entirely plausible that HA might lease used 772ERs to fly Austral-Asian routes until the A350s arrive. But from whom?

Since the rumored buy/lease did not specify the model, could it be connected with this? .....

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...india-boeing-idUSBRE94E09220130515


Jives with the bit about the "Boeing guys"...    .
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
hnl-jack
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 6:17 am

As do many of the posts here, I suspect this is another employee rumor which it seems like many of us associated with the airline industry relish in speculating about. On the other hand, it is relatively easy to build a business case for such speculation.

Consider that the president of HA came from BA and has his roots in European aviation. And, he has made no secret of the fact that he would like to see HA in Europe and with the right code shares there is enough traffic between the combination of Germany and Great Britain to support three to four flights a week.

HA has ordered the A-358 and it appears that Airbus may not build it. HA could go for the A-359, but like the B-777W it is probably too much airplane for HA to Europe, the eastern U.S. or even Asia. And, it would appear that the recent order for 16 A-321 NEO's could easily free up enough of the wide body fleet for Asia and eastern U.S. expansion by right sizing many of the existing services from the West Coast.

Now if you can buy that, the only issue remaining is how to provide limited non-stop services to and from Europe. Now if there were a few used B-777-200 ER's available at a good price, it just might make sense to pick them up and drop the A-350 order. As someone pointed out previously, 767 crew transition would be relatively easy and HA has nearly two decades experience with the type. I believe I read recently that Singapore is getting ready to dispose of a half dozen B-777-200ER's (please correct me if I'm wrong). These would be well maintained aircraft, probably low cycles, at a cost that would be considerably less than A-359's and could serve HA on very long haul services for many years to come.

Now that I've said all that, I think I've convinced myself this might not be a bad strategy "IF" HA really intends to serve Europe. I still think it is a rumor...but who knows?
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 6:21 am

Quoting jdflyvc10 (Thread starter):
He told us he was a mechanic for HA at HNL and was plane spotting on the west coast.

Hahaha, yeah sure, and I remember the rumours spread by an other "HA mechanic", that HA wanted to get rid of the A330s ASAP. We had a tread about this nonsense some month ago.
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
QANTAS747-438
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 8:10 am

My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
HNLPointShoot
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 8:14 am

Quoting BeachBoy (Reply 9):
I think he was joking.

Zander was the CEO of AQ just before Banmiller who liquidated it. Dunkerley is the current HA CEO.
This. The "mechanic" in question was probably messing around.
 
chrisair
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 8:47 am

Quoting jdflyvc10 (Thread starter):
This aviation honk, like us, started chatting about planes after he heard our conversation. He told us he was a mechanic for HA at HNL and was plane spotting on the west coast.

You really believe someone that randomly approaches you in a park? If so, I'll be in Los Angeles soon. Hopefully you'll be there because I have a very wealthy relative in Nigeria that's looking to give away his wealth. If you just give me $5,000 my relative will give you $25.5 million in oil money.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 11:14 am

Quoting jdflyvc10 (Thread starter):
HA is making "BANK" on the northwest Pacific

Not really, sorry.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
JerseyFlyer
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 12:06 pm

AI are leasing out some 77Ls. Will they have 6 left after that?

These could be excellent interim lift before the 358s arrive for direct flights to Europe.
 
airbazar
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RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 12:09 pm

Quoting koruman (Reply 34):
My point is not to belittle the USA or American people - I love them both. It's just to explain that American people's long-haul travel habits are remarkably underdeveloped compared with their European peers, and just because they equate a sandpit in Aruba to Lanikai or Hanalei Bay means nothing.

I do get your point but your questions were a little too ridiculous and your post may have lost some credibility.
But I agree that American's leisure long haul travel habits are very, well not long haul at all   And a lot of it stems from the lack of vacation time and money. Despite popular believe most Americans have a lot less disposable income than Europeans do. Factor that against lack of mandatory vacation time, including school vacations, and it's easy to explain why American's don't stray too far from home.

Quoting koruman (Reply 34):
Do I believe that Hawaiian will buy the 777? Actually, probably not. But some of their Japanese markets and their Sydney market would probably both be more profitable if operated by a 777-300ER.

   Which is why I believe that they will convert to the A359 sooner or later. And they're just getting started in China.

Quoting saloman (Reply 36):
You did a poor job of expressing your point if that wasn't its intent. Nor did you anywhere address the fact that the previous thread on the topic includes the number of 45,552 UK visitors to Hawaii each year

He did make his point if you get past the initial part  
His point was that Europeans do travel 14 hours to go on vacation. 45K annual visitors to Hawaii without any advertising, non-stop flights, and more importantly without any charter operators in the market is quite impressive if you ask me. As he pointed out, Hawaii is competing with many other destinations that have far greater penetration in the European market so there needs to be a concerted effort to sell Hawaii in Europe, which until now has been non-existent.
 
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frigatebird
Posts: 1172
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:02 pm

RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 12:17 pm

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 37):
Since the rumored buy/lease did not specify the model, could it be connected with this? .....http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...india-boeing-idUSBRE94E09220130515

I couldn't help thinking about AI's 77L reading this thread. Guess they haven't found a home yet?

Quoting HNL-Jack (Reply 38):
HA has ordered the A-358 and it appears that Airbus may not build it

IIRC, Airbus still has more orders for the A358 than Boeing has delivered 77L's. There are people here at A-net who believe it won't get build, but Airbus still officially plans to EIS it in 2016. Could very well be delayed, but even if this would be the case and HA does need interim lift, why not A330s? The reason HA hasn't converted its A350 order to -900s is because it's too big, and the 777 is about the same size is the A359...
146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
 
aztrainer
Posts: 713
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:17 pm

RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 12:25 pm

While when I first read this my first opinion was no way. Upon more reflection could HA use a 777 on their higher density SYD flights and then augment the flights with higher cargo capacity?

What is the percentage of cargo ops HA does for the islands versus others like FX, UPS and Atlas?

Lastly, the only thing I could see is that HA wants to expand to Europe and while they do have the 358 on order, could they be worried about any production delay's or problems. I only state this after seeing what Boeing has gone through with the 787 and the problems that airlines had with the grounding. HA could convert the 358 to 330's and accelerate the retirement of some of the 767's.

I still think this is just conjecture on the part of the mechanic in HNL.

Quoting koruman (Reply 34):

c) Which of the following has a major tourist destination which is a significant location in the history of the USA - Jamaica or Hawaii?

Well this is a loaded question as you are correct about December 7, 1941 being a very pivotal date in the history of the US. Jamaica was also part of the Sugar Triangle and a very significant development to build the United States and establish a effected trade route to Europe. Then you also could consider the Privateers (pirates) use Jamaica as a base port to attack the Spanish and English fleets taking gold and silver back to Europe and splitting the profits with the fledgling country.
 
jayunited
Posts: 1272
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 2:47 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 45):
His point was that Europeans do travel 14 hours to go on vacation. 45K annual visitors to Hawaii without any advertising, non-stop flights, and more importantly without any charter operators in the market is quite impressive if you ask me.

There are millions of people living in the UK and only 45K visit Hawaii annually not very expressive. And if the UK to Hawaii market is so lucrative why is it that no airline even offers at least one weekly nonstop between any point in UK to Hawaii? And to put it in perspective ill you the number that you gave 45K and although there are more than 1 million people living in UK I'll use the number 1 million as a demonstration. If you subtract 1 million from 45K you still have 955,000. Now take into account that there are millions of people living in the UK and only 45,000 out of millions visited Hawaii and that will show you that the market that you call impressive is extremely small to the point that it's almost nonexistent, 45,000 people spread out over a 52 week calendar year does not represent a large market.
 
saloman
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:31 pm

RE: Hawaiian 777 Order/lease Is Coming Soon?!

Thu May 23, 2013 4:02 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 45):
45K annual visitors to Hawaii without any advertising, non-stop flights, and more importantly without any charter operators in the market is quite impressive if you ask me.

I'd admit that that number was higher than I expected and is rather impressive, but the point is that it still likely won't warrant the cost of an ultra long-haul flight. Especially when there are countless connection possibilities throughout North America on countless airlines.

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