aviateur
Topic Author
Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:25 am

Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 1:35 am

At long last. Thursday will be the last day of regular operations at JFK's terminal 3!

On one hand the occasion is melancholy, but I am NOT among those who feel that T3 ought to have been preserved. Yes, as the former Pan Am Worldport it's a somewhat historic building. But architecturally, no, it's certainly not on a par with Saarinen's TWA building, or even I.M. Pei's demolished National Airlines terminal (the original terminal 5). It's tough to mourn the loss of T3. It was, by the end, an ugly, claustrophobic, very dysfunctional facility.

Still, while JFK is a "nicer" airport now, in a generic sort of way, it's losing more and more of the character and personality that the older generation terminals provided: Pan Am's T3, Saarinen's TWA, Pei's National, and of course the old American Airlines terminal, with its giant stained glass window (it was largest in the world!).

I've read that the zodiac sign designs that used to adorn the fence/wall in front of T3 are currently stored in a JFK hangar. I hope they don't discard them. Man, I'd like to own one of those, if only I had a place to store or display it.

There's an essay in my new book that talks about JFK and the aesthetic of its terminals -- particularly the horror of T5 -- if anybody's interested.

Farewell, Terminal 3.


-- Patrick Smith
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 2:04 am

It's sad to see the Worldport go but demolishing it solves a lot of congestion issues at a very packed airport. Maybe if JFK wasn't such a mess we could have preserved it, too bad. Hope this really helps DL's ops up there
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
KirkSeattle
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 4:32 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 2:19 am

I'm kinda glad to see it go. For me, the security, walkways and gates were so outdated and more like a herd moving through a hallway. Oh, I hope they get the birds out of there near gates 1, 2, 3 and the teens. I'm sure they will miss the Burger King goodies. First time a bird dropped at my feet - freaked, me, out!   

Cheers,
KirkSeattle
 
bomber996
Posts: 412
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:21 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 2:23 am

Are there plans to put something on the former site of T3?

Peace   
Two biggest lies in aviation... "I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help you." & "Traffic in sight."
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4541
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 2:45 am

Good bye T3....I just wish i could push the big red button myself.

or maybe not, who knows what kind of toxic crap is in that building.

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 3):

hard stands replacing what was lost to extend T4B
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
AwysBSB
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:58 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 3:40 am

I do not know what makes some of you so sure that T3's rotunda would not be preserved.
Why would DL and PANYNJ hurt their images making a hugely controversial demolition?
By the way, their point of view about the umbrella building has not been linear.
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1479
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 3:51 am

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 5):
I do not know what makes some of you so sure that T3's rotunda would not be preserved.
Why would DL and PANYNJ hurt their images making a hugely controversial demolition?

Yeah. It's not hugely controversial. Pretty much no one cares.
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2171
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 3:23 pm

T3 may have been a hell-hole structurally, but it IS still significant architecture and should be saved in some way!! Take lots of pics of it while you still can, if you value airline history.
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
dsuairptman
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 9:45 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 3:30 pm

JFK is a dump and there is no glory in T3. Pan Am is long dead and for good reason, so just because they parked planes there isn't a reason to save a building. Architecturally speaking, what is there worth preserving other than the saucer roof, perhaps?
GEAUX SAINTS!
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2171
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 3:32 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 6):
Yeah. It's not hugely controversial. Pretty much no one cares.

You have to realize that not everyone has the warm fuzzies for airline history the way some of us do, sadly.
Finally made it to an airline mecca!
 
DL WIDGET HEAD
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2000 8:18 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 3:34 pm

T3 is not a national monument worth preserving just an interesting building from the past that a lot of people have mixed emotions about and certainly not worth the expense to try to preserve for nostalgia sake. Tear it down like the Berlin wall and let's move on.

[Edited 2013-05-23 08:35:43]
 
notam-j
Posts: 78
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2001 4:10 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 4:08 pm

Does anyone know what the last scheduled flight will be to/from terminal 3?
If only I had a nickel for every Boeing vs Airbus posting...
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 4:22 pm

I had my last departure out of T3 this past Sunday and went around to snap a few pics. I remember coming to T3 in the late '80s during the summer and going to the rooftop to watch the Pan Am 747s come in from LHR, FRA, CDG, FCO, etc., and have taken many Pan Am and Delta flights out of the place since then. While I am sad to see the place go (for obvious nostalgic reasons), I also understand that Delta desparately needs a new terminal...the place is embarassing for the thousands of Delta customers who go through DL JFK every day...

Rotunda Check-in area: Sky Priority lines
JFK T3 Rotunda SP Check-in


Rotunda Check-in area: General
JFK T3 Rotunda Check-in


Rotunda Inside: view from side
JFK T3 Rotunda inside Side view


Rotunda Inside: Gates 1, 2, and 3. One of these gates (the current Gate 3 I believe) was the one from which the very first scheduled 747 flight from JFK to LHR departed:
JFK T3 Rotunda Gates 1 2 3
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 4541
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 4:22 pm

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 5):

I do not know what makes some of you so sure that T3's rotunda would not be preserved.

The fact that Delta and PANYNJ has said its going bye-bye

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 5):
Why would DL and PANYNJ hurt their images making a hugely controversial demolition?

Its not controversial outside of a very small minority

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 9):
You have to realize that not everyone has the warm fuzzies for airline history the way some of us do, sadly.

No, we just don't believe in wasting outside.
New airliners.net web site sucks.
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 3932
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 5:06 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 6):
Yeah. It's not hugely controversial. Pretty much no one cares.

I'm not saying preserve it....but if the threads, fb pages, and articles are to be belived...someone cares. So that would make you statement false.
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 6):
Yeah. It's not hugely controversial. Pretty much no one cares.

That no one cares is not a good thing.

From the Architect's Newspaper: As for the threatened Terminal 6 by I.M. Pei, Hayes* said Terminal 3 is “superior to Pei, especially in terms of aviation architecture. Pei’s is a pretty corporate box, but it could be anywhere.” Terminal 3, however, had an unparalleled design that allowed for passenger loading and maintenance to take place all under its unique canopy. “This is really the place that established the paradigm for airport architecture, and these terminals were treated like international headquarters, intended to be corporate icons,” Hayes said of JFK.

* Hal Hayes was one of the lead architects on the T4 terminal. As the blog post also indicates, he created an earlier scheme for Delta that repurposed T3.

--- http://blog.archpaper.com/wordpress/archives/8487#more-8487
 
psa188
Posts: 583
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:02 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 5:34 pm

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 6):
Yeah. It's not hugely controversial. Pretty much no one cares.

NOT true!

TV, radio and media personality Michael Manning wrote two very powerful and optimistic blog entry on his blog site. Thank you, for your support and advice, Michael!

http://michaelmanningtv.blogspot.com...13/05/saving-pan-am-worldport.html

http://michaelmanningtv.blogspot.com...ldports-final-week-crisis-and.html

Travel and airline blog site Flying with Fish also posted two very interesting commentaries about Delta's final days operating Terminal 3.

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flying...tion-closes-it-wont-be-documented/

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flying...orldports-last-day-%E2%80%A6-fear/

And the New York/Tri-state chapter of the international preservation advocacy organization, Docomomo-US wrote a very detailed news piece on our campaign. The author, John Morris Dixon, wrote one of the very first architectural opinons about the original Pan Am Terminal back in 1961! Thank you, John!

http://docomomo-nytri.org/2013/05/19/can-jfks-terminal-3-be-saved/

YOU might not care, but don't say "no one" cares.
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8101
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 6:24 pm

The last flight will be Delta Flight 268, a Boeing 747-451, from gate 6, tonight. Nice that it's gate 6 (not the same as in 1970) and a 747.

Is there anything happening to mark the event? Would it be worth being there in person?
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
User avatar
United_fan
Posts: 6357
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2000 11:11 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 6:24 pm

I only went thru T3 once,inbound from MIA on DL March '11 . Are the express gates section getting demolished also?
Champagne For My Real Friends,and Real Pain For My Sham Friends
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 6:36 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 17):
The last flight will be Delta Flight 268, a Boeing 747-451, from gate 6, tonight. Nice that it's gate 6 (not the same as in 1970) and a 747.

And I did get a quick snap of T3 Gate 6 with a Delta 744 recently....no such views up close of a 744 at T4 unfortunately:

DL 744 N667US Gate 6 T3 JFK


Quoting United_fan (Reply 18):
Are the express gates section getting demolished also?

The Delta Connection RJ gates are mostly in T2 now, so they will be around a little longer. They will move to a new extension to T4B within the next two years.
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1549
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 6:46 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 12):
I had my last departure out of T3 this past Sunday and went around to snap a few pics.

Thanks so much for the photographs - they will be nice to look back on one day. You can't say Delta didn't get its use out of that building!!

One question: the mezzanine or second floor area and the shops under the saucer, were those original to the design or added later?

Quoting psa188 (Reply 16):
YOU might not care, but don't say "no one" cares.

It would have been nice had the authorities been able to save the building -- Pan Am had a storied history and its sad to see it go.
 
panamair
Posts: 3759
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 6:57 pm

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 20):
One question: the mezzanine or second floor area and the shops under the saucer, were those original to the design or added later?

The mezzanine level was from the original (or at least it was already there in the early '70s) as seen in this clip (excerpt from the James Bond 1973 movie "Live and Let Die" - go to 0:39 of the clip).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ieff3w5P0Ko
 
DTWPurserBoy
Posts: 2321
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:33 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 8:44 pm

I was more upset with the demolition of the three chapels that stood in the center of JFK than of T3. There was a catholic, protestant and Jewish synagogue with beautiful architecture.

My first landing at JFK was right after the I. M. Pei T5 terminal opened in 1970. I flew on National Airlines from DCA--it was a beautiful modern building then.

But JFK's Achilles heel is a lack of growth space. For years there had been talk of extending the airport across the marsh to the old Floyd Bennett Field but IIRC that was quashed because it is a bird sanctuary.

I was based in T2 with Northwest Orient through the 80's--that place was a total dump!

Time marches on. Pan Am is now a part of airline history. It will be interesting to see in 20 years what JFK will look like.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
cokepopper
Posts: 388
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 9:44 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 10:09 pm

Here are a few pictures from the acquisition of PanAm in '91
In with the New Term 3 Oct 1991
JFK Terminal 3 Oct 1991
Out with the old, In with the new JFK Term 2 Oct 1991
 
CairnterriAIR
Posts: 355
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:52 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Thu May 23, 2013 11:49 pm

Let the wrecking ball swing. And when they're done they can drive 115 miles up into Connecticut and take out the now vacant eye-sore at BDL that forever was Terminal A. An even worse god-awful dump!
 
just7four7
Posts: 55
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:09 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 1:02 am

Absolutely silly to abandon the saucer. One of the few main images of JFK.
Now it will be the same generic 'adult contemporary' McTerminal. How sad.

Would have been easy to integrate the roof into a new facility behind, on the airside.
As premium passenger entry, anything really, cool lounge, restaurant...

Too many people today live and behave like nomads, in a global world of n'importe quoi, so have little feeling for things that define time and place.

Delta, bye bye. As bad as the old facility was (and I do not disagree with taking that part down), as boring and bland will the new part be.
 
aviateur
Topic Author
Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:25 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 1:06 am

Does anybody know the answer to this...

When the Beatles landed at JFK in '64, is it true that the press conference during which John Lennon made the famous/infamous quote about the Beatles being "bigger than Jesus," took place in a press room inside terminal 3?

I know there's a Pan Am globe in the background of the footage from that interview, but I'm uncertain if the room was at JFK, or at Pan Am's skyscraper over on Park Avenue.


PS
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
 
User avatar
DeltaMD90
Posts: 8245
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 1:10 am

Quoting just7four7 (Reply 25):
Would have been easy to integrate the roof into a new facility behind, on the airside.
As premium passenger entry, anything really, cool lounge, restaurant...

Do you understand what tearing down this terminal will allow? It isn't just because it's old and decrepit. T-3's shape makes it impossible for aircraft to simultaneously back out and come in on either one side or both, I forgot (someone fill me in on it.) It is much more than just a simple teardown vs renovation, T-3 actually blocks traffic flow

And besides that (entering opinion territory) it's kinda a unique building, but it's hardly a masterpiece, and it is far from as historic as other landmarks in the US. It just doesn't cut it. Just like with mergers, rebrands, shut down carriers, etc, some parts of aviation will bite the dust, sadly. We can't let the past bog us down because something is semi-historic
Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 4720
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 1:22 am

Quoting aviateur (Reply 26):


Does anybody know the answer to this...When the Beatles landed at JFK in '64, is it true that the press conference during which John Lennon made the famous/infamous quote about the Beatles being "bigger than Jesus," took place in a press room inside terminal 3? I know there's a Pan Am globe in the background of the footage from that interview, but I'm uncertain if the room was at JFK, or at Pan Am's skyscraper over on Park Avenue.

Not even the same year. Had JL made this quote to the press on their first trip to the States well, it might have been their last.

The Jesus quote was from an interview given in the UK in '66:

On March 4, 1966, this quote of John's was printed in an interview by reporter (and friend of John's) Maureen Cleave in the London Evening Standard:

"Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue with that; I'm right and I will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first - rock 'n' roll or Christianity. Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It's them twisting it that ruins it for me."

Note JL said more popular, not "bigger than"....now I'm neither defending nor supporting the quote, but.
Next up: STL-OAK-RNO-LAS-ICT-STL
 
alfa164
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 2:24 am

Quoting psa188 (Reply 16):
Travel and airline blog site Flying with Fish also posted two very interesting commentaries about Delta's final days operating Terminal 3.

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flying...tion-closes-it-wont-be-documented/

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flying...fear/

As a traveller who has flown more than 200,000 miles per year for the past ten years (I have business in Asia) - and, until now, having flown a vast majority of those on Delta - I can only say:

SHAME ON DELTA.

If they don't want the structure... that's their p[osition. But to deny a credible enthusiast and write the chance to document its last day is shameful. If the airline has no sense of history, so be it - but allow those with that sense to play out their roles. There is a value in heritage, and denying that is to deny an importa t of our history and culture.

SHAME ON DELTA!
 
User avatar
KGRB
Posts: 642
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:19 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 2:36 am

Quoting psa188 (Reply 16):
Travel and airline blog site Flying with Fish also posted two very interesting commentaries about Delta's final days operating Terminal 3.

http://boardingarea.com/blogs/flying...nted/
Quoting alfa164 (Reply 29):
As a traveller who has flown more than 200,000 miles per year for the past ten years (I have business in Asia) - and, until now, having flown a vast majority of those on Delta - I can only say:

SHAME ON DELTA.

If they don't want the structure... that's their p[osition. But to deny a credible enthusiast and write the chance to document its last day is shameful. If the airline has no sense of history, so be it - but allow those with that sense to play out their roles. There is a value in heritage, and denying that is to deny an importa t of our history and culture.

SHAME ON DELTA!

Sorry to say, but that's just sour grapes from some no-name blogger. I'm sure Delta's PR employees have better things to do than to babysit him all day while he "documents" the last day of T3.
Flown on 9E/AA/AL/CP/DL/EV/HP/MQ/NW/PT/OO/OH/UA/US/XJ/YV/YX/ZW
 
alfa164
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 2:58 am

Quoting KGRB (Reply 30):

Sorry to say, but that's just sour grapes from some no-name blogger. I'm sure Delta's PR employees have better things to do than to babysit him all day while he "documents" the last day of T3.

That's a great tactic: if you can't deny what a person says, just call him names.

Delta must be very proud of you!
 
User avatar
KGRB
Posts: 642
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:19 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 3:22 am

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 31):

That's a great tactic: if you can't deny what a person says, just call him names.

Delta must be very proud of you!

This may be a news flash to you, but for this blogger to see and "document" the operation in the restricted areas of the terminal, he would need to be escorted by a Delta employee with either a DL or JFK SIDA badge. Do you really think that DL has people just sitting around that can escort him all day? If he wants to take pictures of the public areas of T3, he doesn't need Delta's approval. But that's not what he wanted, did he?

It seems like you are the one that can't deny what I say.
Flown on 9E/AA/AL/CP/DL/EV/HP/MQ/NW/PT/OO/OH/UA/US/XJ/YV/YX/ZW
 
alfa164
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 3:33 am

Quoting KGRB (Reply 32):
This may be a news flash to you, but for this blogger to see and "document" the operation in the restricted areas of the terminal, he would need to be escorted by a Delta employee with either a DL or JFK SIDA badge. Do you really think that DL has people just sitting around that can escort him all day? If he wants to take pictures of the public areas of T3, he doesn't need Delta's approval. But that's not what he wanted, did he?


Did he say he was trying to go into the restricted areas? No... Did he request an "escort" anywere. No... Did you read what he actually wrote? Probably not. Can he "take pictures of the public areas of T3", as you so casually claim, without being a ticketed passenger or getting Delta's approval? No... and maybe that is what he wanted.

Like I said, if insulting him is all you can say.... Delta must be proud of you. And if insulting me - one of your DM fliers, who just happens to think DL blew it this time - is all you can say..... I guess there are other airlines who might appreciate my business.
 
sr117
Posts: 681
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2000 2:00 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 4:43 am

It's quite understandable why neither DL nor the Port Authority wanted to make any fuss regarding the closure of T3 as they did not want to stir up -any- nostalgia that would boost the preservationists' case and make tearing down T3 any more difficult or expensive than it already will be.

If there weren't people still trying to save T3 from the bulldozer, I think you'd have a more proper goodbye for the old building. But as it stands, I agree it's counter productive to stir up nostalgia.

It would be nice if we could preserve our heritage while moving forward all the time, but I think that sometimes we must choose. I appreciate the Worldport's historic value, but given the space constraints at JFK, and the still unresolved future of T2 and what will eventually take it's place. I think allowing the Worldport to stand would just make the future all the more complicated.
 
m11stephen
Posts: 372
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:16 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 5:08 am

I love Pan Am more than the vast majority of people but the fact is that Pan Am has been gone for close to 22 years now. Saving the Worldport, a decrepit, crumbling, outdated, inefficient terminal, is not going to bring Pan Am back. The only two significant things about the Worldport are, 1. It was built and designed by Pan Am and 2. The flying saucer roof was innovative for it's time. If the Worldport had been built by Tower Air I doubt that anyone would give a second thought about tearing it down.

Yes, I would love to see the Worldport preserved but it will never happen. Yes, I would love to see the rotunda saved but that will never happen. In fact, if Pan Am were still around do you think that they would still be using the Worldport? I'm sure they would have torn the Worldport down and rebuilt just like Delta is doing. JFK already has one old terminal sitting around that no one has any idea what to do with. The TWA terminal has been sitting empty for five years now. Does the Port Authority really need another old terminal, that no one of any significance wants, sitting around?
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
 
rwy04lga
Posts: 1976
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:21 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 6:48 am

Quoting aviateur (Thread starter):
I.M. Pei's demolished National Airlines terminal (the original terminal 5).

I believe that's terminal 6. T5 is B6's current terminal (was TWA's old terminal), and T7 is BA's terminal. The National terminal was between terminals 5 and 7.
Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 3932
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 12:49 pm

Quoting panamair (Reply 19):
And I did get a quick snap of T3 Gate 6 with a Delta 744 recently....no such views up close of a 744 at T4 unfortunately:

The 747s pulled right up to the window. Just like the movie Airplane! I have never seen a 747 nose that close anywhere else. Those gates were designed for 747s specifically. People talk about the rotunda...I always liked the 70s addition. The fact that you drove into the middle of the terminal, the rooftop parking, driving under the jetways...there was no terminal like that. Very sad day for me.

Quoting SR117 (Reply 34):
It's quite understandable why neither DL nor the Port Authority wanted to make any fuss regarding the closure of T3 as they did not want to stir up -any- nostalgia that would boost the preservationists' case and make tearing down T3 any more difficult or expensive than it already will be.

Bingo. Delta doesn't want any nostolgia pieces. Period. No need to stir the pot
 
AwysBSB
Posts: 450
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2005 2:58 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 3:17 pm

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 27):
T-3's shape makes it impossible for aircraft to simultaneously back out and come in on either one side or both, I forgot (someone fill me in on it.) It is much more than just a simple teardown vs renovation, T-3 actually blocks traffic flow

Please, share more information about such an impossibility. Would it exist if aircraft were RJs? At what gates of T3's ramps is such a traffic flow obstruction more frequent? Has the locations of T2 and of T4's concourse B any guilt for that?
The umbrella building is not ought to disappear, given it is completely functional or for a regional flights terminal or for a premium terminal. The second possibility is more likely, since a premium terminal is lacking to NYC market.
It will not take long for us to see the umbrella building in its original shape, like shown in these images:



 
EricR
Posts: 1223
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 3:55 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 37):
have never seen a 747 nose that close anywhere else. Those gates were designed for 747s specifically

UA at LAX has/had some gates at the end of T6 & T7 that offered this type of view. Also, the new section of TBIT offers similar views. But outside of LAX, I cannot think of many others in the U.S either.
 
HNL
Posts: 435
Joined: Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:51 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 4:10 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 39):
UA at LAX has/had some gates at the end of T6 & T7 that offered this type of view. Also, the new section of TBIT offers similar views. But outside of LAX, I cannot think of many others in the U.S either.

Honolulu offers similar views. Plus one can go up on level and peer down onto the aircraft.
HNL - There's no place like it!
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 5:29 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 37):
Bingo. Delta doesn't want any nostolgia pieces. Period. No need to stir the pot

In some interview the other day (I think it was with CBS), Richard Anderson claimed that he wanted Delta to become an iconic brand.

Pan Am was an iconic brand, in no small part due to its association with the original architecture of the Worldport. It was groundbreaking, even if it was not designed by a famous architect.

How is Delta trying to become an iconic brand? By adding 9 gates to an existing corporate box and proclaiming it a "gleaming new terminal."

Even when Delta was given the opportunity to create an icon in their own backyard (the new international terminal in Atlanta), they balked at the costs and ended up with an even more banal corporate box.

[Edited 2013-05-24 10:37:44]
 
EricR
Posts: 1223
Joined: Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:15 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 41):

In some interview the other day (I think it was with CBS), Richard Anderson claimed that he wanted Delta to become an iconic brand.

Pan Am was an iconic brand, in no small part due to its association with the original architecture of the World Port. It was groundbreaking, even if it was not designed by a famous architect.

How is Delta trying to become an iconic brand? By adding 9 gates to an existing corporate box and proclaiming it a "gleaming new terminal."

Even when Delta was given the opportunity to create an icon in their own backyard (the new international terminal in Atlanta), they balked at the costs and ended up with an even more banal corporate box.

I can think of many iconic brands and none of those brands are iconic brands due to the buildings they occupy.

Perhaps Worldport was the face of PA because it was during a different era when JFK was the heart and soul of that airline. Fast forward to today, and JFK does not play nearly the same role in the DL network as JFK did in the PA network. Perhaps it is nostalgic to see the building go, but I do not believe a building by itself comes anywhere close to defining a brand.
 
User avatar
KGRB
Posts: 642
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 6:19 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 6:05 pm

Quoting alfa164 (Reply 33):

Did he say he was trying to go into the restricted areas? No... Did he request an "escort" anywere. No... Did you read what he actually wrote? Probably not. Can he "take pictures of the public areas of T3", as you so casually claim, without being a ticketed passenger or getting Delta's approval? No... and maybe that is what he wanted.

Like I said, if insulting him is all you can say.... Delta must be proud of you. And if insulting me - one of your DM fliers, who just happens to think DL blew it this time - is all you can say..... I guess there are other airlines who might appreciate my business.

Yes, I read what he wrote. He was very vague in describing what kind of access he was looking to obtain. However, as I said, if he were taking photographs and interviewing people in the non-sterile areas of the terminal (i.e. the lobby, baggage claim, etc.) he wouldn't need Delta's permission at all. It's a public facility -- he can do what he wants. To obtain access to the sterile side (the gates), he would need to be escorted by a Delta employee or issued a gate pass (unlikely in this scenario, as gate passes are only issued for specific circumstances). If he wanted to go on the ramp or see any other restricted area, again he would need to be escorted.

You never answered my question, so I'll repeat it again. Does Delta have employees sitting around all day to babysit him?

And, by the way, please stop making this so personal. I've never insulted you, despite the fact that you have been disrespecting me throughout this thread. I'm proud to be a Delta employee and I work hard everyday to deliver good service to anyone, whether they're a Medallion member like yourself or a first-time flyer. I am going to come to the defense of my employer if I see someone attacking them unjustly. If you think that I can't have a debate with you on an internet forum because of your DM status, then maybe Airliners.net isn't the place for you.
Flown on 9E/AA/AL/CP/DL/EV/HP/MQ/NW/PT/OO/OH/UA/US/XJ/YV/YX/ZW
 
sankaps
Posts: 1692
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 6:51 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 6:41 pm

Photo I took of JFK T3 on March 4 this year, departing on an AA 737-800 bound for Seattle. Lots of nostalgic memories of this place, through my college years in New England when I would frequently fly Pan Am into JFK, and then connect on Ransome Airlines (Pan Am Express) to Boston.

JFK T3, soon to be torn down, photographed on March 4, 2013
 
ldvaviation
Posts: 970
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:21 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 7:27 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 42):
I can think of many iconic brands and none of those brands are iconic brands due to the buildings they occupy.

While that may be true, this is the airline business where it is hard to stand out. So a building still helps the cause of brand building. See BA and T5.

It is hard to stand out because it is largely a commodity business. Airlines compete largely on price, not product.

Even in the premium cabins, where products matters more, there is a kind of uniformity between airlines because of all the off-the-shelf products. For instance, Cathay, US, DL, and AA all use the same basic platform for their international J-seat.

Despite that, the better brands in the business have still made an effort to differentiate themselves. With an original, international First product. Delta does not offer international First. With VIP services, such as AA's Flagship Check-in. Delta has SkyPriority. With a customized version of the J seats that are available. Delta has brought us the all plastic, "hospital look." With original lounge products. Delta has nothing that compares to Cathay's Wing, the Virgin Clubhouse, or the exclusive BA Concorde Room. With a superior frequent flyer program and affinity card. AAdvantage still sets the standard here, in large part because it guarded the value of those miles, even during bankruptcy.

Now, one has to give credit where credit is due... Following bankruptcy, Delta has tried to build a brand on having PTV's in every cabin and being a reliable, well-run airline. That's just not going to earn them "iconic" status. So, yeah, an original terminal or even just an effort to preserve the originality they inherited from Pan Am might have helped the cause.

[Edited 2013-05-24 12:29:08]
 
alfa164
Posts: 1366
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting KGRB (Reply 43):
Yes, I read what he wrote. He was very vague in describing what kind of access he was looking to obtain. However, as I said, if he were taking photographs and interviewing people in the non-sterile areas of the terminal (i.e. the lobby, baggage claim, etc.) he wouldn't need Delta's permission at all. It's a public facility -- he can do what he wants.

Really... a "public facility"? How do I explain to the TSA that it is a public facility and I should be allowed to enter it?

No one asked Delta personnel to escort him, but he would need a pass from them... unless you know a secret entrance...
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 6090
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 10:24 pm

DL doesn't have the resources to respond to every internet bloggers request, particularly when they are likely to write a slanderous piece and/or have very limited audience exposure.
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 13174
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 10:44 pm

My Mom used to bring me to the T3 roof top parking lot to watch the Pan Am 747s European departures. I , like many other have already expressed, have very found memories. I was lucky enough to fly on Pan Am, strangely though not from JFK but from EWR to TPA on a DC-10 and L1011. With that said it's time for T-3 to be replaced, and if private investment is not provided it should be torn down. No public, Port Authority, funds should go towards retaining T3. They saved T-5 for naught, they boasted all these plans to turn T-5 into a hotel, club etc.. and nothing has ever materialized. All these ideas for T3 are the same, ideas with no funds or business plan on how it will be self sustaining.

DL's JFK passengers are getting a much improved experience, which is the big picture.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
cloudboy
Posts: 972
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:38 pm

RE: Final Day For T3 At JFK!

Fri May 24, 2013 11:35 pm

Perhaps this is why most people don't like flying any more, find it a pain, and no longer get dressed up for it or are in good moods when they want to fly. Why pay all that money to go hang around in a shopping mall?
"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 747classic, 76er, 777222LR, AA777223, Amiga500, Baidu [Spider], beaujoin, ben175, BraniffBrat, crazytoaster, FLJ, Freshside3, FriscoHeavy, Google Adsense [Bot], hkcanadaexpat, jfk777, jm079, MaxiAir, MGASJO, nitepilot79, Planejoe, qf789, slcpdxatl, Sooner787, speedbored, starrion, The777Man, Yahoo [Bot], YYJTurk and 465 guests