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DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Fri May 24, 2013 10:46 am

It's the first day!

Post experiences and pics here!
 
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DexSwart
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Fri May 24, 2013 11:16 am

DL sure seems to be quite proud of their renovations, and rightly so, it looks spectacular.
I'm interested in the food outlets.
Apparently, they're not the usual McDonald's or Burger King fare.
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
FoxBravo
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Fri May 24, 2013 3:21 pm

I landed at JFK around 5:30 this morning and taxied right past T4. After watching the construction over the past months/years, it was exciting to see DL aircraft (mostly 738s and 757s, with one 744 presumably for the NRT flight, from what I could see) parked at all the new gates. Unfortunately I did not take a picture, but it looked like they were all set to get up and running this morning. T3, meanwhile, was looking completely deserted and a bit forlorn. I hope things go smoothly at T4 despite the weather and holiday crowds. Can't wait to hear initial impressions, and to try it myself!
Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
 
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Fri May 24, 2013 7:47 pm

Wow. Was all the hype in these threads coming from armchair passengers?  

Other than above, has anyone else flown through the new T4B?
 
panamair
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Fri May 24, 2013 8:32 pm

Here's a video taken earlier this morning: (not from me)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wis7nVMe3GM

I won't depart from T4 till Sunday but should probably have some pics then, if someone else hasn't posted some by then.
 
ldvaviation
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Fri May 24, 2013 10:06 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 3):
Wow. Was all the hype in these threads coming from armchair passengers?

Some of it was coming from Delta. Delta keeps calling it a "new terminal." But the terminal was already there; they more or less added 9 gates to an existing pier.

Look at the existing pictures of T4B and just imagine the concourse with new floors and wall treatments. That's pretty much it.

As to the new Delta ticketing lobby, it is basically the old lobby with a section for SkyPriority. The budget apparently did not provide for redoing the floors.
 
deltairlines
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Fri May 24, 2013 10:13 pm

Swung by the SkyClub this afternoon. Very large and the Sky Deck was nice (got out there before the rain came). There's dining available (for a fee) and said food did look rather good.
 
lucky777
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Fri May 24, 2013 10:20 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
Look at the existing pictures of T4B and just imagine the concourse with new floors and wall treatments. That's pretty much it.

Clearly you haven't watched the video, i'd say its more than "new floors and wall treatments". But if you choose to look at it as half-empty then have at it.
 
bkircher
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Fri May 24, 2013 10:50 pm

Can someone post some images of where terminal 4b is located? And where the old terminal is that this one replaced?
 
attyavgeek
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Fri May 24, 2013 11:06 pm

Here's a article from Skift.com that has some pictures: http://skift.com/2013/05/24/deltas-1...g-fight-for-business-travelers/#/0

Enjoy!
 
cokepopper
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Fri May 24, 2013 11:57 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
Look at the existing pictures of T4B and just imagine the concourse with new floors and wall treatments. That's pretty much it.

Yes, thats all there is lol....I'm sure you can see very clearly from that armchair. The New Concourse and Terminal updates are beautiful. Yes I've seen it.
 
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EK413
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 12:08 am

Quoting panamair (Reply 4):

I was there in March and looks pretty amazing. Great to see T4B complete.

Is the outdoor area under cover? Looks as though there ain't any roof.

EK413
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brilondon
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 3:15 am

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):

Quoting questions (Reply 3):
Wow. Was all the hype in these threads coming from armchair passengers?

Some of it was coming from Delta. Delta keeps calling it a "new terminal." But the terminal was already there; they more or less added 9 gates to an existing pier.

Look at the existing pictures of T4B and just imagine the concourse with new floors and wall treatments. That's pretty much it.

As to the new Delta ticketing lobby, it is basically the old lobby with a section for SkyPriority. The budget apparently did not provide for redoing the floors.


OK so you have a grudge against Delta. I bet if you were to fly from there that you might...you would find something to complain about. Like the blue is too blue or the red Delta widget is not widgety enough. Typical A-Net negative attitude towards anything new.
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spacecadet
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 3:49 am

Quoting lucky777 (Reply 7):
Clearly you haven't watched the video, i'd say its more than "new floors and wall treatments".

Well, I watched the video. It looks nice, but you have to admit, it's not really what you'd call a dramatic public space. It's a nicely furnished terminal with some decent food options (though I cringed a little when I saw Shake Shack - hasn't that place's trendiness shelf life expired by now?), but that's all I can see from that video. If you consider that an insult, then I'm not sure what you're expecting us to say.

It is better than what was there before, definitely.
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 4:11 am

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
. Delta keeps calling it a "new terminal." But the terminal was already there; they more or less added 9 gates to an existing pier.

I want to jump on this point too, every time there is some piece of news that media is covering that has to do with aviation the aviation communities jump all over them for their "inaccurate reporting etc.." if they get the slightest bit of information incorrect. Yet this news is given a pass, all day long on CNBC and every article I've read they are touting the new DL Terminal. Yes the 10 year old terminal is being touted as a "New Terminal", when in reality they added a few thousand more feet to an existing concourse and realigned the ticketing, screening areas. It's a huge improvement, and a milestone for DL at JFK, but it's not a new Terminal. T-5 was the last new Terminal built. T-4, where DL is relocating their T-3 operations, opened 10 years ago.

This though is just another sign of just how savvy the DL pr folks are, they add a few thousand square feet and call it a new terminal and everyone picks up on it and runs with it. I guess inviting the media to come out and report on their concourse expansion is not as sexy as the term "new Terminal".
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EricR
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 2:29 pm

Some additional pictures and info from USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...rt-international-terminal/2359045/
 
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STT757
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 2:39 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 15):


Some additional pictures and info from USA Today

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...rt-international-terminal/2359045/

The headline from the article:

Quote:
Delta unveils new international terminal at JFK

Again, where is this new terminal? They expanded a concourse by 9 gates, and reconfigured the check in and security screening areas.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
EricR
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 3:03 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):

Again, where is this new terminal? They expanded a concourse by 9 gates, and reconfigured the check in and security screening areas.

I think it is a matter of how one interprets the language. I think the intent is to emphasize "Delta's" new international terminal and not that Delta moved into a newly built terminal.
 
DL747400
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 3:09 pm

Beautiful new terminal space for DL to welcome the world! Yet another element of the total reinvention and rebuilding of Delta.

T4B is merely a taste of what DL has in store for JFK. Even more exciting things are on the way to come. Stay tuned......  
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DL747400
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 3:12 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
Yes the 10 year old terminal is being touted as a "New Terminal", when in reality they added a few thousand more feet to an existing concourse and realigned the ticketing, screening areas.

Try 346,000 square feet to be exact. More than "a few" I'd say.
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MaverickM11
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 3:14 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
Delta keeps calling it a "new terminal." But the terminal was already there; they more or less added 9 gates to an existing pier.

The check in hall, outdoor deck, and sky club look great, but I think people are going to see the actual gate area and wonder what the hype was about. Nonetheless, a 2x4 to the head would have been preferable to the prior setup so it's a big plus for DL even if it's not mind blowing.
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FlyDeltaJets
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 3:19 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 5):
Some of it was coming from Delta. Delta keeps calling it a "new terminal." But the terminal was already there; they more or less added 9 gates to an existing pier.

Wether the building was there now or not it is still DELTA'S NEW TERMINAL
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
cokepopper
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 3:20 pm

Quoting EricR (Reply 17):
Quoting STT757 (Reply 16):

Again, where is this new terminal? They expanded a concourse by 9 gates, and reconfigured the check in and security screening areas.

I think it is a matter of how one interprets the language. I think the intent is to emphasize "Delta's" new international terminal and not that Delta moved into a newly built terminal.

Exactly, Delta's New international Terminal 4
Works wonderfully for Delta that the media decides to call it the New Terminal 4

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
This though is just another sign of just how savvy the DL pr folks are

Yes, they are Savvy to say the least. They know how to control the narrative and some may even
say brilliant   NYC largest carrier is sticking  
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 3:36 pm

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 22):
NYC largest carrier is sticking

Techincally, they are the only ones that can say that.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 3:41 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 23):
Techincally, they are the only ones that can say that.

Technically, no one cares, nor does it matter really. Regardless UA's NYC hub is still 30% larger in ASMs than DL at LGA/JFK combined in JUL13 
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NYC-air
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 3:43 pm

Can anyone tell me what the signs say on the airtrain and on the roadways to JFK? Are all passengers directed to T4? Are some being sent to T2 to check-in?

I'm wondering how many O&D pax will end up on those buses.
 
ldvaviation
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 3:51 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 12):
OK so you have a grudge against Delta. I bet if you were to fly from there that you might...you would find something to complain about. Like the blue is too blue or the red Delta widget is not widgety enough. Typical A-Net negative attitude towards anything new.

But there is nothing new here. Delta added 9 gates by extending a pier.

They did not completely change the geometry of the pier or its design. The existing section remains a corporate box with the low ceilings and the constrained passageway. By the looks of it, the new section is slightly wider to allow for a second moving walkway, but it is not clear whether it is taller than one storey, though the skylights in the ceiling do give it a more spacious feel for a corporate box.

Honestly, the way some of you are talking about the space you would think Delta had turned T4B into Barajas T4. (Now that is a stunning terminal. Everyone should take a look at that.) Also, still wondering how this cost $1.4 Billion. For $500 million more, Delta could have had the new TBIT at LAX. Go figure.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):
This though is just another sign of just how savvy the DL pr folks are, they add a few thousand square feet and call it a new terminal and everyone picks up on it and runs with it. I guess inviting the media to come out and report on their concourse expansion is not as sexy as the term "new Terminal".

In the CNBC report I saw yesterday, the British desk reporter wasn't buying the PR about the "new terminal." He suggested there was no comparison between T4 and BA's T5. (He's right.) Branson who was sitting next to Anderson had nothing to say in defense of T4. Perhaps, there are limits to what Branson can hype. LOL.
 
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mayor
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 4:11 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 24):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 23):
Techincally, they are the only ones that can say that.

Technically, no one cares, nor does it matter really. Regardless UA's NYC hub is still 30% larger in ASMs than DL at LGA/JFK combined in JUL13

I don't suppose that the average (or even above average) traveller, when looking at print ads, is going to see that UA's "ASMs" at their hub are more than DL's.....what they WILL see, in print is what DL is doing in NYC and that's what counts.....the ASMs only count for the beancounters. You would think that someone on A.net would realize that's how things go in the airline world.......perception is reality and it always has been.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
cokepopper
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 4:49 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 27):
I don't suppose that the average (or even above average) traveller, when looking at print ads, is going to see that UA's "ASMs" at their hub are more than DL's.....what they WILL see, in print is what DL is doing in NYC and that's what counts.....the ASMs only count for the beancounters. You would think that someone on A.net would realize that's how things go in the airline world.......perception is reality and it always has been.

Exactly, and to expand on that, it may not play well in middle America or the West coast, but it
is playing very big here in the New York area.
 
NYCAdvantage
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 4:58 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 14):

If you had ever used T4B gates before, You will noticed that the new addition makes it feel like a whole new place, it make you feel like in an international terminal not like the late terminal 3.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 26):
In the CNBC report I saw yesterday, the British desk reporter wasn't buying the PR about the "new terminal." He suggested there was no comparison between T4 and BA's T5. (He's right.) Branson who was sitting next to Anderson had nothing to say in defense of T4. Perhaps, there are limits to what Branson can hype. LOL.


to put your credibility on two reporters, one that did not know who used to owned VS 49% before DL bought it, and the other one comparing apples and oranges, I would have respected him more if he had compared it to T8 but LHR come on.
is questionable. http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video...dline%7Cquote%7Cvideo%7C&par=yahoo
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 5:01 pm

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 28):
Exactly, and to expand on that, it may not play well in middle America or the West coast, but it
is playing very big here in the New York area.
Quoting mayor (Reply 27):
when looking at print ads, is going to see that UA's "ASMs" at their hub are more than DL's.....what they WILL see, in print is what DL is doing in NYC and that's what counts.

This is a roundabout way of saying DL's NYC expansion is all PR, which it is not. The reality is NYC point of sale wants the best schedule, most seats, most destinations, and right now and for the foreseeable future that is UA. But I'm also somewhat confident UA will aggressively lose that lead anyway.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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STT757
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 5:04 pm

When all is said and done DL will end up with less gates at JFK than they had with T3/T2.

Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 29):
You will noticed that the new addition makes it feel like a whole new place

That's my point, it's an addition not a "new Terminal".
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
nicholasjet
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 5:18 pm

Few more images and words from thedesignair.net also here....

http://thedesignair.net/2013/05/25/d...a-open-refurbished-jfk-terminal-4/

I like it, it seems like nothing groundbreaking, but definately user friendly, I am reserving a seat on that skydeck when i travel!
 
deltal1011man
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 6:27 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 23):

They are the largest carrier in New york. Its not wrong, It just kind of a play on words. EWR is not in New York, but is a NYC airport.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 31):
When all is said and done DL will end up with less gates at JFK than they had with T3/T2.

er...when they add the RJ area that and the T4A add will make things about the same.

and they triple the hard stand area.
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RobertS975
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 7:16 pm

Quoting nicholasjet (Reply 32):
Few more images and words from thedesignair.net also here....

http://thedesignair.net/2013/05/25/d...a-open-refurbished-jfk-terminal-4/

I like it, it seems like nothing groundbreaking, but definately user friendly, I am reserving a seat on that skydeck when i travel!

This blog mentions that the phase 2 of the project is to replace the current T2 for a total of 27 gates... that is the first that I have heard that T2 will be redone.
 
goldenstate
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 7:19 pm

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 26):
Also, still wondering how this cost $1.4 Billion. For $500 million more, Delta could have had the new TBIT at LAX. Go figure.

The reason you are wondering this is probably because you do not understand the scope of either project, regional differences in construction costs, and financial analysis for investment decisions.
 
Burj
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 9:21 pm

I was there yesterday and will be putting together at trip report later today......

But skimming this thread what I want to point out is that it is all relative.

Relative to the mess that was T3....the expanded T4 is awesome! However it is no Changi, or Incheon, Munich, etc...T4 is not even nearly as nice as Delta's own McNamara terminal at DTW.
 
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Polot
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 9:26 pm

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 35):
This blog mentions that the phase 2 of the project is to replace the current T2 for a total of 27 gates... that is the first that I have heard that T2 will be redone.

I think they are talking about T4B with that comment, not T2. To have 27 gates in T2 you would basically have to triple or quadruple the size of the terminal.
 
NYCAdvantage
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 9:30 pm

You know that most of us get your point, it's not a new building, for most of us that have traveled daily, weekly or monthly thru T4 for the past years, but again that new addition makes a huge difference, the feeling is great, any way just the thought of knowing that I will be at a T4 FIS relax me and make me forget the dark days of T3, "broken baggage carousel,
no air condition, crossing the street to T3 from T2 to claim baggage that some how did not make it to T2, or sometimes driving my wife to T3 the traffic jams specially during the summer and how can you forget Delta's man 1011 flying birds. If you have not experienced that, T4 is an old building, But if you have experienced the worse of the worse JFK T3 then T4 will be a brand new building a brand new experience.

[Edited 2013-05-26 10:19:54 by SA7700]
 
BN747
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 9:48 pm

Quoting Burj (Reply 38):
However it is no Changi, or Incheon, Munich, etc...T4 is not even nearly as nice as Delta's own McNamara terminal at DTW

That's the observation that stings the most, NY's #1 air terminal facility doesn't even measure up to Detroit.

No amount of positive spin will ever change that.

BN747
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jetbluefan1
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 9:53 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 41):
That's the observation that stings the most, NY's #1 air terminal facility doesn't even measure up to Detroit.

True. Ironically enough though, B6's T5 @ JFK is the #5 rated terminal in the world.

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/s...worst-airport-terminals/52602176/1
 
ldvaviation
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sat May 25, 2013 10:09 pm

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 36):
The reason you are wondering this is probably because you do not understand the scope of either project, regional differences in construction costs, and financial analysis for investment decisions.

Oh really? "Financial" analysis for "investment" decisions? As opposed to what? A psychoanalysis of investment decisions? LOL.

Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 29):
If you had ever used T4B gates before, You will noticed that the new addition makes it feel like a whole new place, it make you feel like in an international terminal not like the late terminal 3.

I have used T4B gates before. That is why I know that nothing short of widening the existing concourse and lifting the ceilings to two storeys would have made much of a difference.

Even then, it is important to note that T4 was not considered groundbreaking in design or engineering when it was new (10+ years ago). Indeed, the design is probably less noteworthy now because it seems that the renovation has obscured the transparency the building (ticketing lobby) used to have from curb to check-in.

[Edited 2013-05-25 15:49:16]
 
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STT757
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sun May 26, 2013 12:59 am

I wouldn't brag about any of their shareholder value considering they've all been bankrupt with the last 6 years. I own stock in both btw.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
SA7700
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sun May 26, 2013 5:41 pm

This thread was started in order to discuss Delta's T4B at JFK. The thread was not started in order to make unnecessary comparisons between NYC area airports or primarily other airports for that matter. It detracts from the real topic at hand and leads to off-topic posts.

Thanks very much for your understanding and co-operation.

Regards,

SA7700
When you are doing stuff that nobody has done before, there is no manual – Kevin McCloud (Grand Designs)
 
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mayor
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sun May 26, 2013 10:56 pm

Quoting BN747 (Reply 39):
Quoting Burj (Reply 38):
However it is no Changi, or Incheon, Munich, etc...T4 is not even nearly as nice as Delta's own McNamara terminal at DTW

That's the observation that stings the most, NY's #1 air terminal facility doesn't even measure up to Detroit.

No amount of positive spin will ever change that.

Well, it's not like DTW is sitting in the middle of Detroit's inner city.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
United1
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sun May 26, 2013 11:04 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 44):
Well, it's not like DTW is sitting in the middle of Detroit's inner city.

Well to be fair neither is JFK.....it's right on the edge of the city and the start of the LI suburbs.

I think this was a good compromise by DL and the port authority. Neither have billions that they can spend on a new terminal but they can certainly afford to extend out and modernize an underutilized existing terminal and pier. It's not exactly HKG or ICN but I am certain that they put all of the bells and whistles that DL wanted into the terminal. Its certainty lightyears ahead of T3, which was already falling apart when DL took it over in 91, and will be a very functional space for DL to use for years to come.
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sun May 26, 2013 11:06 pm

I was there for the dedication (and even saw SRB pull off RA's tie and throw it into the crowd!) and while it is a beautiful complex, from a crew perspective, it's a HAUL from the head of the terminal to the crew rooms. I worked a flight out of the C Gates (T2, renumbered) and *apparently* people can't check-in at T2 anymore...and that was causing a lot of heartburn.
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mayor
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sun May 26, 2013 11:09 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 45):
I think this was a good compromise by DL and the port authority. Neither have billions that they can spend on a new terminal but they can certainly afford to extend out and modernize an underutilized existing terminal and pier. It's not exactly HKG or ICN but I am certain that they put all of the bells and whistles that DL wanted into the terminal. Its certainty lightyears ahead of T3, which was already falling apart when DL took it over in 91, and will be a very functional space for DL to use for years to come.

I'm willing to bet that DL wishes that they had some of the money back, that they've spent on JFK since '91 and could have applied it to this terminal.
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Sun May 26, 2013 11:23 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 47):
I'm willing to bet that DL wishes that they had some of the money back, that they've spent on JFK since '91 and could have applied it to this terminal.

Indeed....I know there are a lot of people out there who blame DL for the destruction of T3 but they really did spend quite a lot of money on upkeep over the years. The building is simply way past its design life and has been for years.
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Josh32121
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RE: DL JFK T4B - Experience And Pics

Mon May 27, 2013 1:19 pm

The purpose of this thread was to share firsthand experiences of the terminal since it opened three days ago to see how the finished product matched up to the renderings and hype leading up to the opening. So far, hardly anyone seems to have any new firsthand experiences to share--only the same recycled crap about how insignificant and inadequate the extensive terminal improvements. The few firsthand reports have been blown off.

From what I understand, nearly everything a Delta customer sees and touches from curbside until they board the aircraft has been streamlined and refreshed. I'd call that a substantial improvement.

In all these discussions, no one has mentioned ATL comparison, which is Delta's biggest hub. Except for the new international terminal and concourse F (at ATL), every single passenger space in that airport is at least 20 years old. Half of T and all of A, B, C, and D date to 1980. But obviously, the passengers areas have been drastically overhauled so everything they see and feel is contemporary and more functional. Yet it's not the subject of anywhere close to the level of ridicule and criticism as JFK and specifically DL's JFK facilities even though it handles millions more passengers each year with minimal fuss.