iowaman
Topic Author
Posts: 3878
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat May 25, 2013 4:59 am

Due to length, part eight was archived. Previous thread: Indiana Aviation: Part 8 (by A340Spotter Nov 13 2012 in Civil Aviation)
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat May 25, 2013 1:06 pm

I'm sure SBN's March Traffic is skewed a little by Spring Break in the case of Allegiant but even they were up in offering their usual daily service to SFB. The problem with United at SBN is their high fares and lousy connecting service westbound at ORD. Delta is ground handling Frontier at SBN and they are actually happy that Frontier is in SBN. Traffic must be good westbound because they already reinstated their morning flight to MSP.

United's main problem at SBN in regard to Frontier is their pilot's scope clause in regards to Republic flying. In order to use an E170 flight to DEN which they would like to they can't because Frontier is part of Republic and Republic is the only ones flying the aircraft flying for them and their pilot's scope clause prevents the competition. Now when Skywest gets the E175's or when Frontier is cut loose from Republic it's a different story but SBN passengers are so used to the full sized A319 aircraft now it's probably to late. United would have to use A319's or B738's on the route which would involve a little ramp rebuild at their gates at SBN plus they would fly a lot of empty airplanes around on the route which wouldn't be good.

United and Delta have been approached about NYC service but even though it is SBN's number one business market, it's only good for the most about 50 seats a day and Delta prefers connecting them at their superior hub in DTW.

The solution for United at SBN is to offer multi-class service to ORD on E170 aircraft on every flight and to offer reliable connecting service even when O'Hare has delays. Developing a market with an E170 flight to IAH may also help them out.

AA has been asked to come back into SBN and offer service to DFW and I think after they digest this merger a little they will be back an take the overflow gate at A8.

The whole situation at United at SBN is sad because in the glory days of offering B737's to ORD they were the number one carrier at SBN and North Central which was merged into Republic, Northwest and then Delta was number two. Then deregulation brought a number of carriers to SBN going to different hubs and also resulted in United downsizing aircraft in favor of RJ's which caused the O'Hare hub to get more crowded with the hub n spoke flying. With LCC's carriers such as G4 and F9 coming to SBN United just lost out. Delta was protected in all this with far superior hubs in ATL and DTW. With Delta planning to upguage airplanes on routes such as SBN-ATL United is going to loose out further.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sun May 26, 2013 2:13 pm

When Air Wisconsin was the United Express carrier at SBN they begged and pleaded with United to bring back flights to Denver with United Express to no avail. United's previous experience on the route with B727's should have been more than enough to fill two flights a day. Additionally United Express service deteriorated to a point to whenever O'Hare had bad weather resulting in delays United (The parent airline) would selectively cancel a lot of the Express flights SBN included where their passengers were driving to O'Hare or Midway or taking an early morning South Shore train to Chicago and catching the Blue or Orange lines to their respective airports. After years of this officials at SBN took action in applying for an SCASD grant to help start low cost service to another West connecting hub such as Denver. They worked with officials from Frontier for awhile and it started to pay off when they got awarded the grant. Frontier started service and it had it's ups and downs in the beginning but after five months it's finally paying off. It's reliable and is on big comfy full size A319 jets. One good thing Frontier may spur a mainline revival at SBN for other carriers on a few flights.

Now South Bend's first requested and Number One connecting market is the NYC area. United has been asked to start service to EWR and Delta has been asked to start service to LGA. United also has been asked to start additional service to IAH. Outside of having Newark flights on Notre Dame home football weekends nothing has come of service to Newark.
Delta probably doesn't have the slots to make the service to LGA viable.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Wed May 29, 2013 10:59 pm

DL resumes their season third R/T SBN-MSP flight on June 10th. Also checked in the OAG, No slots are needed on weekends to EWR, so United is running an E170 SBN-ORD-EWR on June 8th and 15th. Could this be an experiment to see how many passengers they get out SBN desiring to go to NYC?
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Thu May 30, 2013 12:23 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 1):
United's main problem at SBN in regard to Frontier is their pilot's scope clause in regards to Republic flying. In order to use an E170 flight to DEN which they would like to they can't because Frontier is part of Republic and Republic is the only ones flying the aircraft flying for them and their pilot's scope clause prevents the competition. Now when Skywest gets the E175's or when Frontier is cut loose from Republic it's a different story but SBN passengers are so used to the full sized A319 aircraft now it's probably to late. United would have to use A319's or B738's on the route which would involve a little ramp rebuild at their gates at SBN plus they would fly a lot of empty airplanes around on the route which wouldn't be good.

Actually, UA could use EV ERJ-145XRs, OO or YV CRJ-700s, or even OO hot-and-high CRJ-200s today to start SBN-DEN if they wanted to. All three of those aircraft can fly SBN-DEN without limitations from either a technical or scope perspective. The only United Express partners that can't be used are RP, S5, and YX because Republic owns all three.

FWA's April numbers are in:
https://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_04_2013(1).pdf
April 2013 numbers were flat compared to April 2012.

Market share numbers at FWA for April:
DL 40.06% (flat YTD)
Eagle 25.80% (down 12.19% YTD)
G4 22.91% (up 31.75% YTD thanks to PGD)
UA 11.09% (down 12.06% YTD)

Seems like most of the growth at FWA this year is coming from G4, which is a good thing. With the Airbuses coming online, could this mean the return of LAS?

[Edited 2013-05-29 17:25:10]
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Thu May 30, 2013 4:02 am

Yes but those airplanes cannot compete with an Airbus for comfort. United has some more tricks up there sleeve though. This month they are running their morning E170 SBN-ORD flight on Saturday June 8th and 15th from SBN-ORD-EWR. I think they are seeing how bookings go so that they can run SBN-EWR nonstop with the E170. It is a long way on comfort from the Caravelle that used to run ORD-SBN-FWA-EWR as United 246 back in the day but it's nice nonetheless.
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1558
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Thu May 30, 2013 4:11 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 5):
It is a long way on comfort from the Caravelle that used to run ORD-SBN-FWA-EWR as United 246 back in the day but it's nice nonetheless.

for sure...is the SBN/FWA to NYC (EWR) market consistent and large enough o support a week day round trip on a 319?

IF timed fairly well, ie an early AM departure to EWR with say a 8:30 ish arrival , then an early evening return with the aircraft and crew RON...thoughts? better scheduling ideas if we all we in charge ?? LOL!
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Thu May 30, 2013 9:47 pm

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 6):
IF timed fairly well, ie an early AM departure to EWR with say a 8:30 ish arrival , then an early evening return with the aircraft and crew RON...thoughts? better scheduling ideas if we all we in charge ?? LOL!

I actually think two daily flights on FWA-EWR would work: one timed for O&D with a morning flight to EWR and an evening flight/RON from EWR (which would operate daily except Saturday), and another with afternoon timings both ways to tap into UA's vast EWR international connections (daily 7 days a week). Both flights could be operated on ERJ-145s, E170/175s, or (preferably due to economics) Q400s.

And personally, I think in addition to 2x daily EWR, there should also be 1x daily DEN flights from FWA on the ERJ-145XR or CRJ-700, operated daily and timed for connections both ways. This would significantly improve westbound connectivity and would also have more potential O&D than F9 has today on SBN-DEN.

However, I also think that FWA-EWR/DEN should replace, not supplement the current 3x daily OO CRJ-200s on FWA-ORD. Eagle can then have the short-hop FWA-ORD market to itself (it already does better than UA on the route), and an EWR/DEN mix would be better for international and westbound connections (respectively) than ORD ever will be for UA.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Fri May 31, 2013 2:46 am

Xposted from Fedex thread:

FEDEX will fly their last B727 flights on June 21st.

"Flight 1304 SBN-MEM departs 2343z that Friday and will likewise be replaced with a 757. Both flights are scheduled to arrive in MEM 14 minutes apart. It should be noted that 1304 originates at SBN and returns via FWA so that is an extra market that will share in this end of an era."
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jun 01, 2013 6:28 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 8):
FEDEX will fly their last B727 flights on June 21st.

"Flight 1304 SBN-MEM departs 2343z that Friday and will likewise be replaced with a 757. Both flights are scheduled to arrive in MEM 14 minutes apart. It should be noted that 1304 originates at SBN and returns via FWA so that is an extra market that will share in this end of an era."

This is quite a historic flight for both SBN and FWA.

And FWA has a long history with the old three-holer Boeing. Back in the day, UA, AA, and DL ran 727s (both Dash 100s and Dash 200s in the cases of AA and UA) from FWA (though not all at the same time), and Kitty Hawk was a very heavy 727 user in addition to FedEx and UPS. As UPS switched to the 757 at FWA long ago and retired their 727 fleet, I think FX1304 will be FWA's last scheduled 727 flight, period. We could still see a charter or two, but I don't think there are any scheduled 727 operators left in the US that use FWA.

I wonder if the local FedEx Express operations both at FWA and at their Fort Wayne sorting facilities will have a joint employee celebration before that final FWA-MEM 727 leg (and final 727 leg, period). That said, it's too bad that Hangar 40 at FWA, the oldest surviving hangar at FWA and FedEx's FWA home for decades, couldn't see this day after the fire last year and demolition in April. (FX now uses part of the former Kitty Hawk hub.)

[Edited 2013-06-01 11:32:38]

[Edited 2013-06-01 11:34:58]
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sun Jun 02, 2013 3:35 am

The B727 replaced the Caravelle on Flight 246 ORD-SBN-FWA-EWR and the return flight 447. They also used it on the DEN-SBN-FWA flight and the return trip. Piedmont also used B727's in SBN on SBN-DAY-LAX flights. I flew on one of the last flights on Delta HOU-ATL and we had to go-arouind after passing over the approach lights because an Airtran B717 ahead of us failed to clear the runway in time.
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:27 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 10):
Piedmont also used B727's in SBN on SBN-DAY-LAX flights.

I'm not sure, but I think Piedmont used either the 737-200 or the F28 into FWA from DAY. After the DAY hub was closed by US in favor of PIT, I think FWA got F100s to PIT (AA also operated F100s into FWA into ORD alongside Eagle ATRs for a while) and B1900s to IND. Than US replaced the F100s on FWA-PIT with SAAB 340s, and then US left FWA (and SBN) after PIT was dehubbed.

That said, with the AA/US merger, I have a gut feeling that "new" AA might add PHL or CLT, maybe even as soon as crossfleeting begins, due to the strong local ties to both cities and Eagle's strong position at FWA. I could see Eagle boosting FWA-DFW to E175s or the like as well.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:22 pm

I can't talk about the AA/US merger and it's effect on SBN but I have a strong hunch that something is in the works between SBN airport officials an AA. Whether it pans out or not is anybody's guess. Also F9's schedule has been released to Jan 2014 and guess what, SBN's Denver service is still there even after the one year expiration of the SCASD grant. I guess when you are now taking 30% of the other carriers passengers and connecting them reliably thru DEN it makes sense to keep it going. I've checked some advance bookings on Seat Guru and SBN passengers seem to be very supportive of the service. Most flights several months out have 90 or more booked and one's close to flight time have 125 or so booked. That is a plus for SBN.
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:08 am

With the news of DL dehubbing MEM, here's my thought of the impact to all the DL Indiana airports.

-IND: The biggest airport in the state by far will probably will see MEM dropped entirely as it's all 50-seaters, unless RP wants to send in ERJ-145s from IND MX to MEM for the 10 or so 50-seater flights that will stay. We'll see in the next DL schedule load. And if IND-MEM is dropped, it won't hurt either IND or DL's operation there much, much like how AA's dropping of IND-STL didn't hurt IND as a whole or AA at IND.

-EVV: Saw MEM dropped last year around the same time as the hub cuts that also killed AMS. Of the four airports here, EVV is the most heavily reliant on DL by far (70% share as opposed to the 40% range at SBN and FWA or their 25% share at IND), and lacks any LCC (they famously gave G4 a stingy incentive package that led them to go to OWB instead).

-FWA: Saw MEM service in the early 90s on DC-9s, but it didn't last. More recently, FWA-MEM was rumored several years ago in part to feed the 9E MX base at FWA, with Mike Boyd bringing up the subject at a FWA-sponsored conference that I went to in 2010. But as soon as MEM saw its first big round of cuts, any possibility of FWA-MEM returning went out the window.

-SBN: I'm not sure if SBN ever saw MEM service - could anyone from SBN fill me in on this? That said, the possibility of SBN getting MEM went out the door just as fast as it did at FWA (if not faster, as FWA could have handled RONs at the 9E MX base).
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Thu Jun 06, 2013 10:34 am

SBN never had MEM service.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:06 pm

SBN's numbers are in for April.

Key points: This is the month after Spring Break is over so traffic is down slightly.
United has cut their lost traffic numbers almost in half. They are also
using Shuttle America E170's more on busy days and for the summer.

Here is a link to the report: http://www.flysbn.com/documents/Apr2013StatReport.pdf
 
User avatar
exFWAOONW
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:32 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:08 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 11):
I'm not sure, but I think Piedmont used either the 737-200 or the F28 into FWA from DAY. After the DAY hub was closed by US in favor of PIT, I think FWA got F100s to PIT

I seem to remember them using 737-200/300s most of the time. Not sure if/when they used F28s.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
User avatar
exFWAOONW
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:32 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:12 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 13):
Saw MEM service in the early 90s on DC-9s,

Not sure why they didn't last. Hated to work them as they were FULL and we had to solicit volunteers most days. But this was in the days of the $99 R/T 30-day advance purchase fares, so they probably didn't make much, if any, money.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:01 pm

It would be interesting to see the May and June numbers for SBN. just checking on SeatGuru and also F9's website. F9's loads have been really strong. Today's SBN-DEN flight has no seats available and a sample return flight next Thursday night has only 5 empty seats. Hope this keeps up through the summer.
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1558
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:03 pm

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 16):
Not sure if/when they used F28s.

I have an entry in my log from Nov.23,1992 FWA-PIT on a F-28..Morning departure...IF that helps.

Entries from Oct. of 93 have the FWA-PIT as D9S equipment.
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:11 pm

FWA's numbers for May are up:
http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_05_2013.pdf

-May 2013 pax up up 4.3% over May 2012 and 0.69% YTD
-May 2013 cargo up 1.24% over 2012 and 7.24% YTD
-All-airline load factors continue to be high at 84%
-FWA fares remain cheaper than SBN's on average, even with F9 at SBN (though IND still maintains a price edge over both)
-YTD market share is DL 40.25%, Eagle 26.26%, G4 22.26%, UA 11.12%, and charters 0.11%

Also of note at FWA: DL's second summer-seasonal MSP resumed this month, UA has restored some weekend frequencies to ORD, and G4 is also adding seasonal capacity boosts on some routes.

G4 will also be hosting a dodgeball tournament at the Three Rivers Festival in Fort Wayne to tie into their national "Dodge High Fares" ad campaign. (I wonder if this will affect Eagle's usual sponsorship of the Three Rivers Festival.) Is G4 planning a similar event in the South Bend/Mishawaka area?
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
User avatar
csturdiv
Posts: 1592
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:33 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:27 pm

Last weekend I drove down to South Bend for a wedding, and while heading back to the northwest suburbs of Chicago and on the Indiana Toll Road (god I hate that highway) I noticed that F9 had some billboards on the westbound lanes advertising their SBN service. Not sure if it is from F9 or SBN or if it was aimed at people who might be heading to MDW/ORD from SBN area.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:28 pm

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 21):
Last weekend I drove down to South Bend for a wedding, and while heading back to the northwest suburbs of Chicago and on the Indiana Toll Road (god I hate that highway) I noticed that F9 had some billboards on the westbound lanes advertising their SBN service. Not sure if it is from F9 or SBN or if it was aimed at people who might be heading to MDW/ORD from SBN area.

It's probably aimed at people in SBN and also northwest Indiana heading to ORD or MDW. And it's nothing new for an Indiana airport.

Over a decade ago, FWA put up billboards on I-69 near Anderson on the drive home from IND encouraging travelers to "save precious time" and choose FWA on their next trip. And over the past several years, IND has often put up billboards near CVG and SDF. Yes, I know that IND is an Indiana airport while CVG and SDF aren't, but it was IND that put up the ads. (Still boggles my mind why IND chose to advertise in WN-heavy SDF and not someplace like FWA with G4, but no network LCC.)
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:49 am

G4 sponsored some puck shooting contests between periods at Notre Dame hockey games and similar events in the SBN area. Happy to see that the F9 billboards were put up along the Toll Road. Apparently it has been working cause F9 loads have been up these past two months.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:01 am

The F9 billboards (These are put up by the airport) on the Indiana Toll Road may be working. Checking on SeatGuru.com tomorrows Frontier flight SBN-DEN minus the exit row has only 1 empty seat for sale. I put in a sample return flight this Thursday from Denver and there are only 20 seats left and those will probably be gone by flight time. Now the other guys cancelled their early morning connecting flight to ORD tomorrow. Maybe some off those rebooked with F9.
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:31 pm

The G4 "Dodge High Fares" charity dodgeball tournament that's going to be held at the Three Rivers Festival in FWA also has an SBN counterpart.

http://dodgehighfares.com/events/south-bend-in/

Also, DL seems to be doing very well at FWA as of late. In April, average DL LFs from FWA were 81%, and FWA-MSP is off to a great start for the season with an 80% LF. Me thinks that DL will send the new 9E CRJ-900s to FWA very soon, as 9E has an MX base here, and that MSP will stay year-round.

http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/MINUTES.5.13.13.pdf
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
 
User avatar
exFWAOONW
Posts: 362
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:32 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:43 am

I remember "fun" nights like that.   
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:14 am

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 21):
Not sure if it is from F9 or SBN

Likely it was included in the SCASD grant that brought service to SBN in the first place. I believe then it would be SBN, but it is using money already pledged for that purpose, none of their regular advert budget.
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:39 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 15):
United has cut their lost traffic numbers almost in half.

Yeah but they are still down 15ish%.

I just realized something, when did CLE service end? That may partially explain the crappy numbers for UA if this years numbers are being compared against last year if CLE was still being served.

UA is still getting its butt handed to it.
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:37 pm

I think CLE service ended last year sometime. It would be interesting to see F9's numbers these past two months as they been flying full airplanes since Spring Break with no let up in sight.
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jun 29, 2013 6:21 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 30):

I think CLE service ended last year sometime.

IIRC, SBN-CLE ended last September. FWA-CLE ended in late 2009 as part of broader cutbacks at CO.

Quoting capitalflyer (Reply 29):
I just realized something, when did CLE service end? That may partially explain the crappy numbers for UA if this years numbers are being compared against last year if CLE was still being served.

SBN-CLE had 28% loads toward the end. FWA-CLE wasn't much better with 36% loads toward the end. In both cases, UA's existing ORD flights (for SBN, because of the UA/CO merger; for FWA, with CO switching from SkyTeam to Star around the same time) could handle the loyal CO flyers and OnePass members easily.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
flyboy80
Posts: 1812
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:28 pm

Sorry to stray off topic for a moment, but I recently relocated to indianapolis, and was hoping there might be a good place to watch takeoffs and landings, especially the FedEx heavies?
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:01 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 18):
F9's loads have been really strong. Today's SBN-DEN flight has no seats available and a sample return flight next Thursday night has only 5 empty seats. Hope this keeps up through the summer.

Looking at April, their load factor was around 75%. March was 87%, 70% in February, and 71% in January. About average for SBN (except March). Is 75% on average enough for them to make money without the grant?
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:42 am

F9's average load factor for SBN has now been around 81% according to airport management. The winter was slow and April was down a bit because it was after Spring Break. However from what I can see doing a sampling of flights, average load factors are now about the same as March's with 87% or even higher. I also think that F9 is now drawing passengers from a broader area of Michiana. Maybe from AZO and even close to the GRR area.

Talking to the folks in Denver when I flew to SBN at the end of January they said that load factors were down systemwide after the holidays.

[Edited 2013-06-29 17:48:06]
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:40 am

I just did a check on seat availability for July for F9 SBN-DEN putting in various days. Around the July 4th holiday they are going out with an average of 126 passengers and coming in with 115. After the 4th they are averaging 110-115 per flight each way with some days completely sold out. On the conservative side they will probably be 82% LF or so for July and on the high side maybe 87% or higher. SBN's average load factor for all airlines is about 84% so F9 is probably hitting that now. It will be interesting to see the May and June numbers from SBN . An F9 spokesperson told SBN that the route is performing as expected for a new route.
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:57 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 34):
Talking to the folks in Denver when I flew to SBN at the end of January they said that load factors were down systemwide after the holidays.

Sounds a lot like FWA in general. Their two weakest months are right after the holidays: January and February. Traffic picks up big in March and stays strong until late December.

The airlines here cope with it in different ways:
-DL typically suspends MSP and cuts DTW from 4x to 3x on weekdays and 4x to 2x on weekends, with MSP and 4x DTW resuming in March. (ATL remains at 3x year-round.)
-Eagle usually goes to 3x ORD/2x DFW during the slow months, boosting ORD to 4x in March.
-G4 flies their normal 2 per week flights to SFB, PIE, and PGD during the slow months, and adds frequencies in March for Spring Break.
-UA has the most limited schedule at FWA among the legacies, so it should come as no surprise that UA only goes from 3x to 2x to ORD on Saturday and Sunday during the slow months.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 34):
I also think that F9 is now drawing passengers from a broader area of Michiana. Maybe from AZO and even close to the GRR area.

I'd say that SBN is grabbing more passengers from Warsaw than before thanks to F9 as well. (People in Warsaw tend to fly from both SBN and FWA based on fare and schedule, and both airports have run ads there.) Remember, the CEO of Warsaw-based Lake City Bank wrote a letter in support of the F9 SCASD grant.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Mon Jul 08, 2013 7:00 pm

One of our local papers had a great article today on FWA and business travel.
http://www.fortwayne.com/apps/pbcs.d...20130708/BIZ/320122399/1017/TOPBIZ

The article states that 70% of FWA pax fly for business and that FWA is currently running a survey to decide what hub(s) that FWA should get service to next. The survey should be done soon.

E-boarding passes will be coming soon to FWA as well (and many other airports including SBN, as UA has said that e-boarding passes will be systemwide by year-end).
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1558
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:49 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 37):
The article states that 70% of FWA pax fly for business and that FWA is currently running a survey to decide what hub(s) that FWA should get service to next. The survey should be done soon.

as if there are a lot of "reasonable" choices??? Come on! Obviously one would think that DEN could accommodate a daily R/T, like UA had decades ago. Morning departure out, evening back..simple. The other that would make the most sense, IMHO, is CLT. Once the new AA figures out exactly where to realign capacity there ought to be room for a couple of CLT round trips daily even if on a 50 seater.

Hubs..why would you want to put any eggs into the baskets of delay prone EWR or PHL..if anything...a return to a daily flight to NYC (LGA or even JFK) by either AA or DL seems to make more sense...here again..either an early morning to and later evening return from...or a very late afternoon/early evening to NYC with a mid AM return. I guess it would depend if that aircraft could then do a flight to ORD or DTW respectively.

Hopefully, FWA can get this service and keep it with fares that make it uneconomical to drive to IND/ SBN/ or wherever.
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Tue Jul 09, 2013 9:39 pm

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 38):
as if there are a lot of "reasonable" choices??? Come on! Obviously one would think that DEN could accommodate a daily R/T, like UA had decades ago. Morning departure out, evening back..simple. The other that would make the most sense, IMHO, is CLT. Once the new AA figures out exactly where to realign capacity there ought to be room for a couple of CLT round trips daily even if on a 50 seater.

Hubs..why would you want to put any eggs into the baskets of delay prone EWR or PHL..if anything...a return to a daily flight to NYC (LGA or even JFK) by either AA or DL seems to make more sense...here again..either an early morning to and later evening return from...or a very late afternoon/early evening to NYC with a mid AM return. I guess it would depend if that aircraft could then do a flight to ORD or DTW respectively.

You forgot FWA-IAD. There is a lot of business between FWA and DC/NoVA (more than NYC), UA has a huge hub there, and there's no congestion at IAD like there is at EWR/PHL. And when the Silver Line to IAD is completed five years from now (and it could be sooner), IAD could also be an option for some DCA users. I could see DEN (UA or F9) or LGA (DL) as well - FWA-DEN is actually a larger O&D market than SBN-DEN, but unlike SBN, there's no nonstop. And NYC is traditionally a strong market from FWA, plus DL is having a wee bit of growing pains with their LGA hub scheduling and will probably shuffle around cities a bit.

CLT is having a bit of a gate shortage right now, so I wouldn't expect CLT (even with the AA/US merger) until the new regional concourse is complete.

[Edited 2013-07-09 14:42:15]
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1558
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:58 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 39):
You forgot FWA-IAD. There is a lot of business between FWA and DC/NoVA (more than NYC), UA has a huge hub there, and there's no congestion at IAD like there is at EWR/PHL.

Yup..I sure did...and learned from you that the market there is strong for FWA. Gracias!
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:22 pm

SBN's May Traffic is in folks:
http://www.flysbn.com/documents/May2013StatReport.pdf

Frontier had a huge month at SBN with 2,032 Enplanements for an average of 120 passengers per flight for 17 flights operated for an average outbound load factor of 86%. Deplanements in SBN from DEN totaled 2,239 for an average of 132 passengers per flight for 17 flights for an inbound average load factor of 95 %.

United and Delta are only down 3.63% and 2.85% respectively in Enplanements and .68% and 7.65% respectively in Deplanments.

Allegiant since introducing PGD service is up a whopping 56% in Enplanements and 55% in Deplanements.

From putting samplings in on the web for SBN-DEN it appears Frontier had a good month in June also.

[Edited 2013-07-11 15:07:00]
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:05 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 41):
Allegiant since introducing PGD service is up a whopping 56% in Enplanements and 55% in Deplanements.

Similar story at FWA regarding PGD. G4 grew their market share from 17% to 22% after PGD was introduced and Allegiant's pax numbers are up 33% YTD.

If G4 resumes FWA-LAS with the Airbus as rumored, I could see them beating Eagle in market share and becoming FWA's #2 airline.

FWA should be posting their June traffic numbers next week on their website. As always, I'll provide a link and the full rundown.

[Edited 2013-07-12 13:14:36]
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jul 13, 2013 2:25 am

Here is SBN's market share per Airline:

Enplanements: Delta 39.52%
Allegiant 32.43%
United 20.93%
Frontier 7.11%

Deplanements: Delta 39.10%
Allegiant 32.64%
United 21.09%
Frontier 7.17%

SBN's Overall Load Factor is 77% which is an increase over last year. This means little though as Allegiant and Frontier are beating that hands down. I think personally that the status quo at SBN is perfect. If American were to come back United's numbers would go in the tank especially if Eagle operates both ORD and DFW.
 
toltommy
Posts: 2462
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2003 9:04 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:18 am

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 26):

Looks like FWA picked up 5 diversions this afternoon from DTW.

Wow looks like DL got tired of the bickering between the TOL FBOs. TOL can't even catch the diversions now.
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:04 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 43):

Here is SBN's market share per Airline:

Enplanements: Delta 39.52%
Allegiant 32.43%
United 20.93%
Frontier 7.11%

Deplanements: Delta 39.10%
Allegiant 32.64%
United 21.09%
Frontier 7.17%

SBN's Overall Load Factor is 77% which is an increase over last year. This means little though as Allegiant and Frontier are beating that hands down.
FWA's YTD market share per airline for January-May 2013 (unlike SBN, these are combined enplanements and deplanements):
Delta 40.25% (flat compared to 2012)
Eagle 26.26% (down 3 share points over 2012)
Allegiant 22.26% (up 4.5 points over 2012)
United 11.12% (down 1.5 points over 2012)
Charters 0.11% (down 0.3 points over 2012)

http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_05_2013.pdf

Average load factor for May at FWA is 84%, with G4 flights even higher than that and DL doing very well, too.

Overall, FWA pax were up 4.31% in May 2013 compared to May 2012 and up 0.69% YTD compared to 2012.

[Edited 2013-07-13 08:05:11]
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
 
7e72004
Posts: 3440
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 12:15 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Mon Jul 15, 2013 8:37 pm

Frontier just announced that SBN on September 9. I thought the loads were were pretty good.
The next generation of aircraft is just around the corner!
 
Tan Flyr
Posts: 1558
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 11:07 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:16 pm

Quoting 7e72004 (Reply 46):

Frontier just announced that SBN on September 9. I thought the loads were were pretty good.

Announced what? you must have skipped a part!
 
freakyrat
Posts: 851
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2008 1:04 pm

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:45 am

Loads were pretty good on SBN-DEN as of March but the airline couldn't sustain its service during the winter months by subsidizing it with summer loads.
 
FWAERJ
Posts: 2571
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:23 am

RE: Indiana Aviation: Part 9

Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:30 pm

FWA is getting a new fuel farm... and is changing parking vendors after 45 years. Goodbye Standard Parking, hello Republic Parking Systems.

http://www.fortwayne.com/apps/pbcs.d...0130716/NEWS/320121720/1005/NEWS09

I bet this means that Republic's "Thanks Again" parking and airport rewards program (already in place at SBN, DAY, and TOL among other airports) will be introduced at FWA, as FWA has expressed interest in a rewards program in the past.
"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: a36001, AAlaxfan, AR385, ba319-131, Baidu [Spider], daninovandri, DocLightning, Gemuser, hiflyeras, legacyins, ro1960, Roadcruiser1, tcaeyx, United Airline and 242 guests