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yellowtail
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DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 1:28 pm

I Noticed these appeared In the GDS this morning.....there might be more that I am missing

Looks to be weekly frequencies starting later this year.

MSPSJO 0740 1310
SJOMSP 1425 2000 on 752

JFKGUA 0830 1300
GUAJFK 1400 1945 on 73G

LAXBZE 0020 0700
BZELAX 1030 1350 on 738

SJO-MSP is a real surprise. other two are VFR heavy markets.

[Edited 2013-05-25 06:30:24]
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 2:46 pm

Well they WERE available for sale this morning.....now gone.......
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 2:51 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Thread starter):
JFKGUA 0830 1300
GUAJFK 1400 1945 on 73G

LAXBZE 0020 0700
BZELAX 1030 1350 on 738

Didn't they do these before?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 3:05 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Didn't they do these before?

I believe so....but different time, different Delta. And NW had done SJO from MSP I believe.

This time they have some VFR momentum in SJO GUA and BZE. Lots of MI folks have second homes in CR.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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juanchito
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 3:05 pm

Yes they did.

3 o 4 weekly GUA-JFK with 737-800. Didn't last even a year.
Don't remember frequency on BZE-LAX

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Didn't they do these before?
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miaami
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 3:11 pm

I noticed that they are also starting CMH-MCO this winter too.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 3:15 pm

Quoting miaami (Reply 5):
I noticed that they are also starting CMH-MCO this winter too.

They do this in phases--I guess oil must be cheap enough to add it back this year 
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 3):
Lots of MI folks have second homes in CR.

If anything it'll be like MSPLIR, or MSPCUN: a zillion flights for FEB-APR and then nada.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
EddieDude
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 3:33 pm

I don't think MSP-SJO would work.

Is there a big ethnic or vacation market for LAX-BZE?
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 3:46 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):
I don't think MSP-SJO would work.

Is there a big ethnic or vacation market for LAX-BZE?

Will be interesting to watch. DL has some good sales teams on the ground in CR, GUA and BZE now.
MSP-SJO should be able to work.

LAX-BZE: CA is Belize's number one source of tourists, and SoCal has the largest ethnic population of Belizeans outside of Belize. If they can get the VFR away from their AAdvantage and United they should do well. For sure, at least UA will respond (fare wise) as LAX feed was a huge component of their IAH-BZE flights.
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EddieDude
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 3:57 pm

Thanks for the info on Belizeans in Cali. That provides the logic for this launch. I must say I still feel skeptical about MSP-SJO.
Next flights: MEX-LAX AM 738, LAX-PVG DL 77L, SHA-PEK CA 789, PEK-PVG CA A332, PVG-ORD MU 77W, ORD-MEX AM 738
 
FSDan
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 4:01 pm

Cool to see some more LatAm expansion. If DL can make MSP-LIR work, I don't see why MSP-SJO wouldn't work. Costa Rica is a hot vacation destination these days!

Quoting miaami (Reply 5):
I noticed that they are also starting CMH-MCO this winter too.

They are starting a LOT of weekend only routes from MCO. Even in the summer, it looks like they are operating Saturday flights to OMA, MKE, IND, GRR, CMH, RIC, BDL, and CUN, in addition to their daily flights to LAX, LAS, SLC, MSP, DTW, CVG, MEM, ATL, RDU, LGA, JFK, and BOS. In the May editions of Sky magazine, they were also showing routes to AUS, MCI, MSY, SDF, BHM, PIT, and HPN. We'll have to see if those surface in the winter.
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 4:16 pm

Quoting FSDan (Reply 10):
They are starting a LOT of weekend only routes from MCO. Even in the summer, it looks like they are operating Saturday flights to OMA, MKE, IND, GRR, CMH, RIC, BDL, and CUN, in addition to their daily flights to LAX, LAS, SLC, MSP, DTW, CVG, MEM, ATL, RDU, LGA, JFK, and BOS. In the May editions of Sky magazine, they were also showing routes to AUS, MCI, MSY, SDF, BHM, PIT, and HPN. We'll have to see if those surface in the winter.

Looks like our buddy Enlira will be busy in the OAG thread this weekend.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
sunking737
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 4:32 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 7):
I don't think MSP-SJO would work.

SY is flying this route currently on Sunday's only.
Just an MSPAVGEEK
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 4:34 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 8):
LAX-BZE: CA is Belize's number one source of tourists, and SoCal has the largest ethnic population of Belizeans outside of Belize. If they can get the VFR away from their AAdvantage and United they should do well. For sure, at least UA will respond (fare wise) as LAX feed was a huge component of their IAH-BZE flights.

Why don't you prove this with actual data instead of making up number? There is no data to support this theory. Based on air traffic, it is very clear neither statement is true.
a.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 4:46 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9):
I must say I still feel skeptical about MSP-SJO.

MSP-SJO should do fine. Due to perception of lawlessness, many Minnesotans have shifted their winter vacations from the traditional Mexico destinations to safe and politically stable Costa Rica. I have a friend that goes to Costa Rica 3-4x a year. It should be able to suppoer a 1x weekly flight.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 4:50 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 13):

Why don't you prove this with actual data instead of making up number?

It is a big Belizean community and a big leisure market, but a big Belizean market is still a handful of people per day.
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
LAXintl
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 5:00 pm

Annual O&D from LAX -

SAL - 188,759
GUA - 175,216
SJO - 102,287
MGA - 40,315
BZE - 24,709

In other words LAX-BZE only averages 33 people per-day each-way.

In comparison 4x the size SJO has barely been able to maintains a LAX nonstop consistently.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 5:08 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Didn't they do these before?

Correct. DL GUA-JFK operated in 2008 for a little while.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 3):
And NW had done SJO from MSP I believe

That was NW MSP-LIR.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 8):
CA is Belize's number one source of tourists

Is the [California-Belize] market larger than [South Florida-Belize] ? So, why didn't DL sustain the BZE-LAX frequencies in the past?




.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9):
I must say I still feel skeptical about MSP-SJO.

Perhaps limited weekly frequencies would be enough to attend that market.
For example, NW MSP-LIR 1x weekly operated seasonally in Costa Rica prior to 2010. Furthermore, UA IAD-SJO and UA ORD-SJO just started in April allowing no more than one weekly flight by now.

Regards
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 5:13 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 13):
Why don't you prove this with actual data instead of making up number? There is no data to support this theory. Based on air traffic, it is very clear neither statement is true.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
In other words LAX-BZE only averages 33 people per-day each-way.

Look, MAH....sometime ago you said DL would never expand out of LAX to C. America. Then you were proven wrong with LAX-SJO. Then when I suggested LAX-BZE was coming, You said would never happen. It now is.
Please be humble enough to accept when you were wrong.

And you guys will be wrong again when DL proves that it can work.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 13):
Why don't you prove this with actual data instead of making up number? There is no data to support this theory. Based on air traffic, it is very clear neither statement is true.

Arrivals (foreign passport holders BZE) State: CA 2011: ....36,108 2012: 39,288 source: Belize Tourism Board

Registered Belizeans Living in USA: State: CA: 2010 17,920 Source: Gov't of Belize.
That is what the GOB has as lawfully residing Belizeans living in SoCal. They count it every 10 years at Census time.

IF anybody wants the full data dump, PM your email and I would be happy to share with you the audited data.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
It is a big Belizean community and a big leisure market, but a big Belizean market is still a handful of people per day.

Clealy DL thinks otherwise.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 5:20 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 17):
Is the [California-Belize] market larger than [South Florida-Belize] ? So, why didn't DL sustain the BZE-LAX frequencies in the past?

DL pulled the plug on the whole LAX experiment. S FLA market is being driven by business traffic as well as transfers to Europe and Caribbean.

Please don't forget alot of the SAL-BZE traffic was LAX transfer traffic too....LAX-BZE was flowing over SAL, IAH, DFW and to a lesser extent CLT, MIA and ATL. Will be interesting to watch DL try to consolidate it now.

But DL are already running ads on "Belize Radio" in SoCal....so clearly this time they have a plan.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
bobnwa
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 5:37 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 18):
Look, MAH....sometime ago you said DL would never expand out of LAX to C. America. Then you were proven wrong with LAX-SJO. Then when I suggested LAX-BZE was coming, You said would never happen. It now is.
Please be humble enough to accept when you were wrong.

When pigs fly
 
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Tomassjc
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 5:40 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 8):
LAX-BZE: CA is Belize's number one source of tourists


Nice to know that BZE will soon be an easy transfer away from The Bay Area as well!

I know AS had been studying LAX-BZE and SJO for years. Their loss. Hopefully there will be an AS codeshare on the DL metal.

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 9):
Thanks for the info on Belizeans in Cali.


What? There are Belizeans in Colombia? (sorry, pet peeve about calling my home state"Cali")  

Tomas SJC
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 21):
Hopefully there will be an AS codeshare on the DL metal.

The way i understand AS international codeshares work is that generally they only have a codeshare on and international flight when AS also has operations to that city. MEX for example.

Though I guess it is probably not set in stone if they want it badly enough.

Something to do with lawyers I presume   
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 5:48 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
Annual O&D from LAX -

SAL - 188,759
GUA - 175,216
SJO - 102,287
MGA - 40,315
BZE - 24,709

I found an interesting point here.
The non-stop TA/LR [SJO-LAX] 4x weekly was just suspended in May 2013. Authorities of the airline stated that all the routes running unprofitable out of SJO were suspended and it clearly demonstrated how TA/LR [SJO-LAX] was struggling.
With that being said, if DL LAX-BZE would happen, it may operate with very limited frequencies from the very beginning.
There are many routes between the USA and Central America following this pattern: AA DFW-PTY, US PHL-SJO seasonally, UA ORD-SJO, UA IAD-SJO, UA EWR-GUA, UA EWR-SAL, SY MSP-LIR seasonally, UA EWR-BZE and so forth.
With all due respect, I found exaggerated the argument: "GUA-JFK and LAX-BZE are heavy VFR markets"

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
MSPNWA
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 6:02 pm

Costa Rica seems to be a popular place right now for people up here. I don't have high hopes for this flight though. Seems a bit too long and thin to stick around.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 6:15 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 23):
With that being said, if DL LAX-BZE would happen, it may operate with very limited frequencies from the very beginning.

It is happening.....it is loaded, but they seem to be playing with the inventory right now and as such have zeros in them.
THis morning it had inventory and was available for sale for US$1208 rt

Best I could establish flight was sat only but not seasonal.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
LAXintl
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 6:29 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 18):
Look, MAH....sometime ago you said DL would never expand out of LAX to C. America. Then you were proven wrong with LAX-SJO. Then when I suggested LAX-BZE was coming, You said would never happen. It now is

In fairness if anyone was a betting person the viability of SJO also out of LAX for DL is a big question mark, especially since they are dumping large 757 capacity on the route.

The odds are the route will commence in December, and then quietly fade away as before.

I think it says much that power house TACA has not been able to make SJO-LAX work consistently all these many decades.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 23):
With all due respect, I found exaggerated the argument: "GUA-JFK and LAX-BZE are heavy VFR markets"

  

I'd term LAX-BZE a "small niche market". Matter of fact there are a 100 larger international markets from LAX, majority which do not have their own nonstops.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 6:38 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 26):

I'd term LAX-BZE a "small niche market". Matter of fact there are a 100 larger international markets from LAX, majority which do not have their own nonstops.

And yet they are starting it. Remember it is always not about the potential LFs or market size, it is about yields.
There are lots of huge markets with horrible yields. And lots of tiny markets with spectacular yields.

And one forgets cargo. Belize ships lots of tropical live fish...the vast majority goes to a wholesaler in Los Angeles (yes, the same one on the show "tanked")...that is very time sensitive, high yielding cargo.

From what I know about these shipments.....what they pay alone per flight can almost cover the expenses of LAX-BZE on DL if they choose to start shipping on that flight.

Lots and lots of potential. We will see if it matures.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 26):
In fairness if anyone was a betting person the viability of SJO also out of LAX for DL is a big question mark, especially since they are dumping large 757 capacity on the route.

AV dumping SJO-LAX really helps the business case. The natural markets (vs promoted markets) for CR tourism are more west coast oriented. I would say that may drop it to a 738 in due course, but it should do fine.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 6:43 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 26):
In fairness if anyone was a betting person the viability of SJO also out of LAX for DL is a big question mark, especially since they are dumping large 757 capacity on the route.

The odds are the route will commence in December, and then quietly fade away as before.

Delta Air Lines moved forward their intended plans.
DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly with 757 is due to start on July 01st.




.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 26):
I think it says much that power house TACA has not been able to make SJO-LAX work consistently all these many decades.

TA/LR [SJO-LAX] 4x weekly as non-stop always operated simultaneously with TA/LR [SJO-GUA-LAX] 7x weekly which is still in service.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 7:11 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 18):
Look, MAH....sometime ago you said DL would never expand out of LAX to C. America. Then you were proven wrong with LAX-SJO. Then when I suggested LAX-BZE was coming, You said would never happen. It now is.

Don't make things up. I said they aren't viable markets and DL (or AA or UA for that matter) wouldn't make it work. I stand by my statement. I did say DL would never start LAXPTY.

LAXSJO might last with TACA exiting. I give LAXBZE one or two seasons. The maker has actually shrunk quite a bit and is smaller today than it was in 2006. It's one of the fastest shrinking U.S.-Central America markets.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 18):
Arrivals (foreign passport holders BZE) State: CA 2011: ....36,108 2012: 39,288 source: Belize Tourism Board

Passports are based on birthplace, not where one lives, so that doesn't support your assertion.

Furthers, does this exclude forced arrivals on cruise ships who aren't as much choosing to visit Belize but rather so it because their boat just happens to stop there? Needless to say, that's going to create a lot of California-origin passports.

[Edited 2013-05-25 12:23:36]
a.
 
LAXintl
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 7:59 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 28):
TA/LR [SJO-LAX] 4x weekly as non-stop always operated simultaneously with TA/LR [SJO-GUA-LAX] 7x weekly which is still in service.

Yes that says a lot. The route never quite grew.

Also look at AA how they failed at LAX-SJO as well.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
ASFlyer
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 8:16 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 29):
Arrivals (foreign passport holders BZE) State: CA 2011: ....36,108 2012: 39,288 source: Belize Tourism Board

Passports are based on birthplace, not where one lives, so that doesn't support your assertion.

Conversely, There are millions in California that weren't actually born there. I'm sure a number of those visit Belize. They wouldn't be counted in the number quoted above. Given that, the number above could actually be quite a bit higher.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 8:20 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 29):
Passports are based on birthplace, not where one lives, so that doesn't support your assertion.

Is that a serious statement? Now I fear your are making stuff up (as you put it). You have no idea what you are talking about. Lots of Belizeans born in Belize, immigrated to the US and now have US passports (my brother has US, Belize and UK passports) But they retain dual nationality (yes, it is legal to do that now thanks to the Israeli lobby in congress) and when they come home they usually travel inbound to BZE on BZE passports and return on the US. Hell, I alternate passports when I travel.

When they fill out their arrival form they are counted as Belizeans, not tourists, and accounted for differently in the tourism count because they are not tourist. Logical right?

You can look at all the hard data you want....but that is jsut as small portion of any overall business case for a route.

And I am not even counting the Belizeans travelling via CUN. Those are counted in land arrivals.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 29):
Furthers, does this exclude forced arrivals on cruise ships who aren't as much choosing to visit Belize but rather so it because their boat just happens to stop there? Needless to say, that's going to create a lot of California-origin passports.

Nope.....cruise arrivals are counted differently. The figures I gave you were AIR ARRIVALS AT BZE ONLY.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 29):
I did say DL would never start LAXPTY.

Careful. Am I goign to have to prove you wrong again within 12 months?
  

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 29):
The maker has actually shrunk quite a bit and is smaller today than it was in 2006. It's one of the fastest shrinking U.S.-Central America markets.

Wrong again... it was up YoY for 2012 and so the first 4 months of 2013 show an increase again.


But clearly you know more than the folks at DL with reams of real data at their figertips. And clearly you know more than the Government of Belize knows about its own arrivals.

As I said, DL is going to give it a shot based on what it sees. I think it will work well. But only time will tell on that.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 8:51 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 30):
AA how they failed at LAX-SJO as well.

Yes, two times.
The first was during the early 90s and stopping at SAL, if I recall correctly.




.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 29):
DL would never start LAXPTY

Well, CM PTY-LAX is 19x weekly at this time, but I know COPA operates a different model allowing a bunch of connections through PTY.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
MaverickM11
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 10:12 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 18):
Clealy DL thinks otherwise.

Is that really a good sign given their track record?  Even in *that* specific market alone?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
MAH4546
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 11:43 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 32):
Is that a serious statement? Now I fear your are making stuff up (as you put it).

Yes, that's a serious statement. A U.S. passport has your birthplace listed on it, not where you live. If one lives in California, and was born in Florida, their passport says Florida. A Belizian-born U.S. citizen living in California will have Belize on their passport; not a single mention of California.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 32):
Wrong again... it was up YoY for 2012 and so the first 4 months of 2013 show an increase again.

The market has shrunk from ~45 PDEW in 2002 to ~30 PDEW today. That's a fact. It's a shrinking market; and considering that 2002 numbers were already depressed because it was a terrible year for international travel in the U.S., e actual shrinkage of the LA-Belize market is probably a whole lot worse.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 32):
[Careful. Am I goign to have to prove you wrong again within 12 months?

Prove me wrong again? You haven't proven me wrong the first time yet.
a.
 
capejet
Posts: 81
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sat May 25, 2013 11:59 pm

But isnt the fact that DL is adding a nonstop flight from LAX to Belize going to guarantee that the market contraction reverses itself and the market grows. There will be opportunities for tourists from LAX who could never find low fares on AA/UA connections to take advantage of the nonstop flight, and dont forget DL will probably have great connections from SEA and SFO.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sun May 26, 2013 12:02 am

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 35):
Yes, that's a serious statement. A U.S. passport has your birthplace listed on it, not where you live. If one lives in California, and was born in Florida, their passport says Florida. A Belizian-born U.S. citizen living in California will have Belize on their passport; not a single mention of California.

You are what you travel on. When I travel on my UK passport I am counted as a british citizen entering the USA. When a Belizean american enters Belize on their birthright Belize passport instead of their US passport, they are counted as a Belizean. When that same Belizean then enters the USA on the American Passport they are counted as a resident at the port of entry.

It is a whole lot more complicated than you realize and the PDEW data gives you an inkling but it is imperfect.

You also have to calculate market stimulation programs

At $1208 R/T it is clearly not bottom of the barrel traffic (compare that with $798 on SJO-LAX)

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
Is that really a good sign given their track record?  Even in *that* specific market alone?

No risk. no reward.

If you don't want to take a risk (albeit a calculated one), you might as well get out of the business. Their track record is indicated in their profits.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
YYZAMS
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sun May 26, 2013 2:32 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 14):

Lots of Canadians also would connect through MSP in onestop to get to SJO if the fare is right....

[Edited 2013-05-25 20:07:13]
 
danild
Posts: 91
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sun May 26, 2013 6:27 am

Quoting usflyer msp (Reply 14):

MSP-SJO should do fine. Due to perception of lawlessness, many Minnesotans have shifted their winter vacations from the traditional Mexico destinations to safe and politically stable Costa Rica. I have a friend that goes to Costa Rica 3-4x a year. It should be able to suppoer a 1x weekly flight.

I work at a travel agency in Minneapolis and specially last year we got a lot of requests to go to safer places than Mexico (specially Cancun), they were choosing Jamaica, Dominican Republic, the Bahamas or Central America... All of which by the way are fare more dangerous than Mexico on a murder rate per capita comparison even considering Mexico as a whole. Let alone comparing the safety of resort towns like Cancun. If you compare it on a more detailed basis Washington DC, Puerto Rico are more dangerous than Quintana Roo (Cancun's state) or Costa Rica which would be more similar as far as safety goes. But while most people love Costa Rica's nature, nothing compares to Cancun's beaches, hotel options, cuisine and cultural activities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

I just did a search on San Jose non-stop and the RT price is at $1,181 USD on Delta Non-stop from MSP Vs $455 on Spirit... I don't see this turning into a permanent non-stop for MSP.

I do hope however that we get the all year round Cancun and HNL non-stop back @ MSP.
Danild
 
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yellowtail
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sun May 26, 2013 9:27 pm

Quoting danild (Reply 39):
I just did a search on San Jose non-stop and the RT price is at $1,181 USD on Delta Non-stop from MSP Vs $455 on Spirit... I don't see this turning into a permanent non-stop for MSP.

I do hope however that we get the all year round Cancun and HNL non-stop back @ MSP.

SJO is a much different draw than CUN....and the higher priced flights are indicative of that.....having said that....$1200 is a bargain to the $1500 for the new LAX-BZE that DL is charging
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Sun May 26, 2013 10:37 pm

Quoting danild (Reply 39):
I just did a search on San Jose non-stop and the RT price is at $1,181 USD on Delta Non-stop from MSP Vs $455 on Spirit... I don't see this turning into a permanent non-stop for MSP.

I think the MSP-SJO service would operate on a seasonal basis.
Just for illustrative purposes, the cheapest fare on the seasonal SY MSP-LIR starts from $750 as round-trip and it's 20% less than the regular year-round fare offered by their competitors and allowing one stopover.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SJOtoLIR
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RE: DL Starting MSP-SJO, JFK-GUA, LAX-BZE

Mon May 27, 2013 12:38 am

I did a research at amadeus.net and all the intended flights are loaded:

DL LAX-BZE; 1x weekly on Saturdays
DL JFK-GUA; 1x weekly on Saturdays
DL MSP-SJO; 1x weekly on Saturdays
Effective: December 21st

All these flights will operate on a weekly basis from the very beginning and this fact confirms some of the hypothesis posted above related to the tiny demand of passengers on [BZE-LAX], [JFK-GUA] and [MSP-SJO].
Good luck to DL and thanks for trusting into the Central American scenario !

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"

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