Triple7Lr
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RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sat May 25, 2013 11:10 pm

Let me start by saying I normally don't post rumors or feed into them but this one is gaining traction. I came across a post on a pilot blog a week ago about a possible order but I blew it off, pilots are always starting rumors. However the city of ATL just happened to paint A321 on all of parking lines on E concourse yesterday. It reminds me of the 717 acquisition. It was rumored, then the lines appeared then, the agreement with WN was announced. It fits into there fleet strategy its a proven aircraft and they have tons of economic data on it. Plus I'm sure they'll be able to get them at a favorable price. What do you guys think?
 
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1337Delta764
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sat May 25, 2013 11:18 pm

Quoting Triple7Lr (Thread starter):
Let me start by saying I normally don't post rumors or feed into them but this one is gaining traction. I came across a post on a pilot blog a week ago about a possible order but I blew it off, pilots are always starting rumors. However the city of ATL just happened to paint A321 on all of parking lines on E concourse yesterday. It reminds me of the 717 acquisition. It was rumored, then the lines appeared then, the agreement with WN was announced. It fits into there fleet strategy its a proven aircraft and they have tons of economic data on it. Plus I'm sure they'll be able to get them at a favorable price. What do you guys think?

The A321 rumor has been going on for years. DL has already ordered the 739ER, and just because more fleet types were added with the NW merger doesn't mean DL must further complicate its fleet by adding more and more types. Furthermore, DL does NOT own the gates at Concourse E; they are common use gates, and probably the lines were added to accommodate any airline with A321s who intends on using the E gates.

[Edited 2013-05-25 16:20:53]
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XFSUgimpLB41X
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sat May 25, 2013 11:20 pm

The Director of Flight ops just completed his A320 type. I'm hearing that the are close to a deal with this exact number of orders.
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sat May 25, 2013 11:23 pm

Quoting Triple7Lr (Thread starter):

All you mentioned was the A321s. Nothing about the A330s.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 1):

     
My point exactly.
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sat May 25, 2013 11:28 pm

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 3):
All you mentioned was the A321s. Nothing about the A330s.

An RFP is out for a widebody order. Something will be announced soon.
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sat May 25, 2013 11:29 pm

Ahh yes, the paint lines at the gate rumor. Whoever is in charge of painting the lines on the ramp must be closely tied to the CEOs of every airline. I can't count the number airline rumors that have started from something this.

Recently the CEO was quoted as saying Delta will 'wait until the new gen aircraft prove themselves' and I was assuming this was in reference to the A320NEO and A350. Maybe these orders are just to hold them over until then.
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sat May 25, 2013 11:29 pm

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 4):
An RFP is out for a widebody order. Something will be announced soon.

I am putting my money on the 77W. Even though DL has updated the interiors of the 744, the oldest aircraft were built in the 80s and need replacing soon.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 5):
Ahh yes, the paint lines at the gate rumor. Whoever is in charge of painting the lines on the ramp must be closely tied to the CEOs of every airline. I can't count the number airline rumors that have started from something this.

The main flaw here is that the E gates are not DL-owned gates, they are common use gates that any airline can use, and probably the lines for the A321 were put in place to accommodate any airline with A321s who need to use them (remember that all international arrivals are required to use either Concourse E or F).

[Edited 2013-05-25 16:33:54]
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sat May 25, 2013 11:32 pm

Quoting Triple7Lr (Thread starter):
Let me start by saying I normally don't post rumors or feed into them but this one is gaining traction.

Bloomberg was on the widebody part of this a couple of months ago:

Delta Studying 10-20 Widebodies Order (by AeroWesty Mar 20 2013 in Civil Aviation)
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sat May 25, 2013 11:36 pm

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
I am putting my money on the 77W. Even though DL has updated the interiors of the 744, the oldest aircraft were built in the 80s and need replacing soon.

The last order went to Boeing. This one will likely be Airbus.

The 744s are going to stick around for a good while.

As far as the 321s, there's likely a very good reason why the DO just got checked out..

[Edited 2013-05-25 16:38:21]
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sat May 25, 2013 11:39 pm

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 8):
The last order went to Boeing. This one will likely be Airbus.

Doubt it. As they did last time with the 739ER, Boeing will provide DL a really sweet deal that Airbus will be unable to match. Boeing cannot afford to lose DL, considering that they have already lost several loyal customers to Airbus, and DL is pretty much the last one standing not counting any LCCs (and no, UA doesn't count since they still have A350s on order).

Fact is, A321s don't make any sense since DL has already ordered the 739ER, thus adding a redundant type, and the oldest 744 is older than the oldest 763ER (not to mention the fact that the 763ER has a higher cycle limit than the 744), so the 77W is more likely than the A330.

[Edited 2013-05-25 16:46:19]
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sat May 25, 2013 11:46 pm

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 8):
The last order went to Boeing. This one will likely be Airbus.

This one will go to the OEM who gives them the best offer. It will depend on little other than that.

You must understand that Mr. Anderson does not run the company like a dictator. He answers to a Board of Directors. He gets information from various employees whose job it is to run the numbers and figure out whether the 739ER or A321 will fit their fleet better and for less money. If he grants a contract for any reason other than that without being instructed to do so by the BOD, he will get fired by the BOD.

However, if DL requires A330-sized aircraft, then the A330 is the obvious choice. The 787 is much more expensive and the wait for it is much longer. They already have A330s in the fleet and so they can order them in small numbers ("top-ups") without racking up huge expenses.
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sat May 25, 2013 11:49 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):

You must understand that Mr. Anderson does not run the company like a dictator. He answers to a Board of Directors. He gets information from various employees whose job it is to run the numbers and figure out whether the 739ER or A321 will fit their fleet better and for less money. If he grants a contract for any reason other than that without being instructed to do so by the BOD, he will get fired by the BOD.

Which is why the A321 doesn't make any financial sense, since it would be redundant with the 739ER and would add unnecessary fleet complexity. Inheriting A32x aircraft from NW was one thing, however, it doesn't mean it makes any sense that DL should further complicate its fleet. In the long run, fleet simplification WILL occur.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 10):
However, if DL requires A330-sized aircraft, then the A330 is the obvious choice. The 787 is much more expensive and the wait for it is much longer. They already have A330s in the fleet and so they can order them in small numbers ("top-ups") without racking up huge expenses.

However, the 744 replacement is likely higher priority than the 763ER replacement, since the oldest 744 is older than the oldest 763ER, as well as the fact that the 763ER has a higher cycle limit than the 744.

[Edited 2013-05-25 16:55:50]
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 12:00 am

Delta has a massive 757-200 fleet and I expect there are missions where the A321-200 makes a better replacement than the 737-900ER so a small order of 30 doesn't seem ridiculous.

And based on Mr. Anderson's comments, he's more interested in the 787-9 and 787-10 than the 787-8s he currently has on order. And I expect the pricing to DL for those 787-8s have gone up a fair bit due to the length of the deferment (which would trigger the price escalation clauses) and we don't know what pricing, if any, NW secured for possible 787-9 orders. As such, the price DL would have to pay for a 787-9 or 787-10 could be closer to current market rates, which should be a fair bit higher than what they can secure new A330s from Airbus for.
 
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 12:07 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 12):
And based on Mr. Anderson's comments, he's more interested in the 787-9 and 787-10 than the 787-8s he currently has on order. And I expect the pricing to DL for those 787-8s have gone up a fair bit due to the length of the deferment (which would trigger the price escalation clauses) and we don't know what pricing, if any, NW secured for possible 787-9 orders. As such, the price DL would have to pay for a 787-9 or 787-10 could be closer to current market rates, which should be a fair bit higher than what they can secure new A330s from Airbus for.

Of course, Boeing could actually give DL a really good deal on 764ERs for an even lower price than any A330. I'm not saying Boeing will actually do this, however, the 764ER works flawlessly for DL across the Atlantic on routes that do not require the additional range or cargo capacity of the A332, and has a lower CASM than both the 763ER and A332, and could be useful for upgauging some of the more profitable 763ER routes. Considering that DL is a fan of limited run aircraft types (MD-90 and 717 immediately come to mind), the 764ER should not be ruled out.

[Edited 2013-05-25 17:08:53]
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 12:08 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 11):
However, the 744 replacement is likely higher priority than the 763ER replacement, since the oldest 744 is older than the oldest 763ER, as well as the fact that the 763ER has a higher cycle limit than the 744.

The 744s have lower hours/cycles than the early 763ERs.

Search here (leave the "N" off of the registration number):

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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 12:13 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
Fact is, A321s don't make any sense since DL has already ordered the 739ER, thus adding a redundant type, and the oldest 744 is older than the oldest 763ER (not to mention the fact that the 763ER has a higher cycle limit than the 744), so the 77W is more likely than the A330.

Prepare to be disappointed.
 
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 12:16 am

Anyone got a bunch of second hand A321's up for sale right now ?  
 
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 12:26 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
Boeing could actually give DL a really good deal on 764ERs for an even lower price than any A330.

  DL will not order any new 764's. If they wanted additional frames, they would have ordered them by now.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
the 764ER works flawlessly for DL across the Atlantic on routes that do not require the additional range or cargo capacity of the A332

Flawlessly? Care to back that one up?

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
and has a lower CASM than both the 763ER and A332

And in spite of the lower CASM, the market spoke and overwhelmingly chose the A332. DL will not order any more 764s at this point. End of story.
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 12:27 am

Ah I love pilot rumor threads.
That Dallas pilot base should be coming any day now and all those used 747s.......

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 2):

Couldn't be because they have 150 airbus in the fleet already?

No clearly for the 30 new 321s lol.


They just fitted the test cell(s) in atlanta for Trent 800 and GE90 runs. That probably means just as much as someone getting qualified on an aircraft type. Nearly nothing.



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):

......wow......

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 15):

Depends. Could also be some 777 options used.
Something should happen by June maybe July
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 12:34 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 18):
Depends. Could also be some 777 options used.
Something should happen by June maybe July

The widebody piece is not currently expected to be split.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 18):
They just fitted the test cell(s) in atlanta for Trent 800 and GE90 runs. That probably means just as much as someone getting qualified on an aircraft type. Nearly nothing.

Don't know where you heard that but it is not true.
 
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 12:40 am

Quoting OA412 (Reply 17):
And in spite of the lower CASM, the market spoke and overwhelmingly chose the A332. DL will not order any more 764s at this point. End of story.

That doesn't mean DL has the same requirements as everyone else. DL considered the A332 when replacing the L-1011, but chose the 764ER due to its lower CASM. No, Boeing wasn't pointing a gun at Ron Allen's head; DL chose the 764ER for that very reason.

FYI, if UA unloads its 764ER fleet, DL will pick them up in a flash.

[Edited 2013-05-25 17:44:29]
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 1:06 am

Which airline operates into E that could possibly switch to the A321 though?

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
I am putting my money on the 77W. Even though DL has updated the interiors of the 744, the oldest aircraft were built in the 80s and need replacing soon.

This is where a lot of airlines are going to be focusing on for a while, especially if they have a sizable fleet of 744s.
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 1:22 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 21):
Which airline operates into E that could possibly switch to the A321 though?

Does AA use E?
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 1:25 am

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 22):
Does AA use E?

Nah, T.

This rumor seems to come around every now and again. It'd be nice to see a few more Airbuses, but who knows.
 
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 1:33 am

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 19):

Lol I was at the test cell last week while they were doing the work.

Both large cells can now run up to a 115,000lbs engine. Unsure(but unlikely) if they will add this to the large cell in MSP. (Currently 70k I believe)

And on the spilt, I know it's not suppose to be spilt right now, but my understanding its not out of the possibility.



Of course the last time this happened, I was pretty sure they would order 100 321s maybe Beoing will show up with a last minute offer.
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 1:34 am

A few things:

the 739ER order does not mean they won't order the Airbus.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet on A321s in Delta's Citgo livery at some point.

There will be no more 767-400ER orders, whether you 1736Delta764 want it or not.
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 1:50 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
Of course, Boeing could actually give DL a really good deal on 764ERs for an even lower price than any A330.

Sure, but delivery positions are going to be an issue unless someone else is willing to step aside as the backlog for the 767 stands at 63, which is many years worth of production.
 
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 1:57 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 26):

And iirc airbus is about to kick up 330 production right?

Ugh I just wish the current fleet had CF6s or Trent 700s the Two big PW4000 are such a disappointment
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 3:38 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 27):
Ugh I just wish the current fleet had CF6s or Trent 700s

Maybe they will...  

Er, the new ones, that is!

[Edited 2013-05-25 20:39:13]
 
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 4:40 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 18):
Couldn't be because they have 150 airbus in the fleet already?

No clearly for the 30 new 321s lol.

RA was riding along with him for at least part of it as well.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
Of course, Boeing could actually give DL a really good deal on 764ERs for an even lower price than any A330. I'm not saying Boeing will actually do this, however, the 764ER works flawlessly for DL across the Atlantic on routes that do not require the additional range or cargo capacity of the A332, and has a lower CASM than both the 763ER and A332, and could be useful for upgauging some of the more profitable 763ER routes. Considering that DL is a fan of limited run aircraft types (MD-90 and 717 immediately come to mind), the 764ER should not be ruled out.

No new 764s will happen, I can guarantee you that. I'll give this widebody order a 90% chance of being 330s. They are primarily looking for point to point capability from the west coast to Asia. The 764 cannot do that.


Also, in regard to the 321- it carries more and has more powerful motors than the 739ER. With all the 757s that need to be replaced, it would be highly logical to add those to the fleet.
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 5:07 am

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 29):
RA was riding along with him for at least part of it as well.

I am still completely unsure what this has to do with anything.

I bet Anderson has been in Dallas too.

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 29):
Also, in regard to the 321- it carries more and has more powerful motors than the 739ER.

The 737-900ER can replace the 57s, when they can't replace them, the 321 can't either.

Its not a hot rod, but the 739 will do the job fine. Its not a hot rod like pilots want. (and thankfully they don't worry about pilots when picking aircraft)

As for PAX the 321 in Delta config will be right at 180 just like the 900s.

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 29):
The 764 cannot do that.

Uh...what new routes can the 332 add for Delta? The only real route(s) the 332 can do that Delta could add....LAX-ICN and SEA-HKG.

If Asia is what they are looking for, the 777 is the only real answer. (or 787) 330 doesn't have the range. (and its even more limited thanks to the PW4000)

Quoting PM (Reply 28):

not holding my breath. Maybe CF6s happen thanks to the 767 fleet. No idea how comparable the E1 is to the 67 engine.
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 5:15 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 30):
I am still completely unsure what this has to do with anything.

I bet Anderson has been in Dallas too.

Why do you keep bringing up Dallas? Wishful thinking from some to reopen DFW? That's never had any validity to it. It's well known DL is in negotiations for more Airbii, though.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 30):
The 737-900ER can replace the 57s, when they can't replace them, the 321 can't either.

True, however the new build 321s are more capable with payload carriage and have significantly higher thrust engines than the 739ER.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 30):
Uh...what new routes can the 332 add for Delta? The only real route(s) the 332 can do that Delta could add....LAX-ICN and SEA-HKG.

Just repeating stated goals from flight ops. Whatever it is, bring on the widebodies, and they aren't slated to be replacement aircraft.
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 5:29 am

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 31):
Just repeating stated goals from flight ops. Whatever it is, bring on the widebodies, and they aren't slated to be replacement aircraft.

Since you're a pilot, I'm sure you've heard this before.........:


There are lies, damned lies and pilot rumors  
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 5:39 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
robably the lines for the A321 were put in place to accommodate any airline with A321s who need to use them (remember that all international arrivals are required to use either Concourse E or F).

Which international airline can/will operate A321s into ATL?

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
the 77W is more likely than the A330.

RA was at NW when NW ordered the A330s. RA knows well whether the A330s will work for DL or not. If he wants them, he will order them. Does not matter what people on anet have to say.
 
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 5:42 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 32):
There are lies, damned lies and pilot rumors

And then the worst of them all, rumors from mechanics.  

And when I say from flight ops, I mean it's from mgmt level, not just cockpit chatter.

[Edited 2013-05-25 22:43:59]
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 5:43 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 30):
not holding my breath

Nor am I but I can hope.  
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 30):
Maybe CF6s happen thanks to the 767 fleet.

Well, I'm hardly objective when it comes to RR but the facts do speak for themselves. Fifty-four percent (54%) of A330s built have RR Trents and RR have by far the lion's share of the current backlog. PW have 22% of A330s built and virtually nothing of the backlog.

A330s with Trents must have a higher resale value.

And we already have the precedent of US Airways switching from unloved PW4000s to Trent 700 for new orders of the A330.

Just saying...  
 
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 6:02 am

While the A330-200 in its current production version has to range to fly from LAX/SFO/SEA to Japan, South Korea and northeastern China, I wonder has DL thought about alternatives like buying more 787's?
 
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 6:10 am

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 5):
Ahh yes, the paint lines at the gate rumor. Whoever is in charge of painting the lines on the ramp must be closely tied to the CEOs of every airline. I can't count the number airline rumors that have started from something this.

Recently the CEO was quoted as saying Delta will 'wait until the new gen aircraft prove themselves' and I was assuming this was in reference to the A320NEO and A350. Maybe these orders are just to hold them over until then.

HSV has 767 and 757 lines at their gates or at least did not sure if they are still there. Point is HSV gets neither of those aircraft and are likely there for diversions from ATL.
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mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 6:22 am

Quoting HSVflier (Reply 37):
HSV has 767 and 757 lines at their gates or at least did not sure if they are still there. Point is HSV gets neither of those aircraft and are likely there for diversions from ATL.

This is true.......when I worked at SHV for DL, we were a diversion point for DFW and we had to be able to handle whatever type a/c that DFW would handle.....other smaller cities are in the same position.

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 34):
And then the worst of them all, rumors from mechanics.

I'm guessing this was aimed at me. Sorry, not a mechanic. Well, working on the ramp or cargo, we didn't bother with unsubstantiated rumors......we just did our jobs and just waited for the rumors to come true, rather than starting them or spreading them.  
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
Pacific
Posts: 1043
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2000 2:46 pm

RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 6:29 am

Airbus does claim a range of 13,400km and 13,900km for the A330-200 on their website, depending on which page you look at on their website. That is further than the claimed range of an A340-300 and 747-400!
 
XFSUgimpLB41X
Posts: 3961
Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2000 1:18 am

RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 6:33 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 38):
I'm guessing this was aimed at me. Sorry, not a mechanic. Well, working on the ramp or cargo, we didn't bother with unsubstantiated rumors......we just did our jobs and just waited for the rumors to come true, rather than starting them or spreading them.

It's not and wasn't intended to be personal. The most outrageous rumors I've heard over the years have all originated and propogated from mechanics. (DFW reopening, a fleet of 767Fs, and a few other real doozies)

Most of the pilots at DL seem to be pretty good about not spreading unsubstantiated rumors, of course with some notable exceptions.

[Edited 2013-05-25 23:35:03]
Chicks dig winglets.
 
Carpethead
Posts: 2567
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 7:30 am

Quoting dtwlax (Reply 33):
Which international airline can/will operate A321s into ATL?

TACA? Does Air Jamaica operate A321s anymore?

Quoting LV (Reply 16):
Anyone got a bunch of second hand A321's up for sale right now ?

Kingfisher Airlines?
Just kidding.

Here something from the outfield.
Perhaps AA/US & DL are talking about a A321 swap where US exchanges the CFM powered ones with A320 from DL.
 
astuteman
Posts: 6406
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 7:50 pm

RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 8:03 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 30):
If Asia is what they are looking for, the 777 is the only real answer. (or 787) 330 doesn't have the range. (and its even more limited thanks to the PW4000)

Referring to the capabilities and powerplant of ageing A330's in the fleet doesn't mean a lot when new-builds will be WAY more capable (near-as-dammit as capable as the 787-8), are EMINENTLY capable of Transpac, and available with GE or RR power...

Rgds
 
sankaps
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RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 9:16 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 11):
Which is why the A321 doesn't make any financial sense, since it would be redundant with the 739ER and would add unnecessary fleet complexity.

The 321 is just a variant of the 320 family, of which Delta has a whole lot. So it is not like adding a new aircraft type altogether.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 11):
However, the 744 replacement is likely higher priority than the 763ER replacement, since the oldest 744 is older than the oldest 763ER, as well as the fact that the 763ER has a higher cycle limit than the 744.
DL indeed has the first 744s ever built, including the prototype (N661US). But age has nothing to do with when they will be replaced, and these have much fewer cycles IIRC, about 50% less, than the 744s recently retired by LH.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 20):
DL considered the A332 when replacing the L-1011, but chose the 764ER due to its lower CASM. No, Boeing wasn't pointing a gun at Ron Allen's head; DL chose the 764ER for that very reason.

Ron Allen's Delta had a exclusive supplier arrangement with Boeing at the time, much like AA had. Stupid idea to begin with, and this is a different Delta today. Incidentally, the A330 has higher RASM potential than the 764 due to its higher payload (especially cargo) capacity.

Quoting dtwlax (Reply 33):
RA was at NW when NW ordered the A330s. RA knows well whether the A330s will work for DL or not. If he wants them, he will order them. Does not matter what people on anet have to say.

Exactly. Richard Anderson goes by the numbers in these kinds of decisions, and nothing else.

[Edited 2013-05-26 02:36:11]
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 1806
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 9:19 am

Quoting goldenstate (Reply 15):
Prepare to be disappointed.

Really? Care to back it up with FACTS? Or is it just more wishful thinking?
 
oldeuropean
Posts: 1686
Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 5:19 pm

RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 10:15 am

It's only a few week until Le Bourget.  
Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
 
columba
Posts: 5053
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 11:05 am

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 45):
It's only a few week until Le Bourget.

Sounds like an order that could be announced there  
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4485
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 11:58 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 6):
I am putting my money on the 77W

RA has already stated the 77W is too expensive

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 13):
Of course, Boeing could actually give DL a really good deal on 764ERs for an even lower price than any A330.

Couldn't wait for 764 to be tossed in by you. A332 is a better aircraft in just about all categories. I know you hate that fact but it is true.
 
DUSint
Posts: 190
Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:30 pm

RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 12:26 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 47):
A332 is a better aircraft in just about all categories. I know you hate that fact but it is true.

...and then, there is also the A330-300... Which wasn't mentioned in this thread. Why? Would it not be the logical choice for Delta, esp. when you consider the progress in MTOW and range which has made the 333 nearly as capable as the 343 (with much lower operating costs)?
 
PHX787
Posts: 7881
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:46 pm

RE: RUMOR: DL To Order 30 A321 + 10 A330

Sun May 26, 2013 12:34 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 47):
RA has already stated the 77W is too expensive

Once the 7810 comes online, it won't be
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