User avatar
eksath
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 1299
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:19 am

"Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 2:38 am

In the penalty box at MIA.

"Heavily armed police officers stormed a plane on a South Florida runway and took three people into custody after a suspicious package that did not make it on board raised concerns in Tallahassee."

Read more: http://www.wsvn.com/news/articles/lo...plane-on-mia-runway/#ixzz2UMXB8EQs
World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
User avatar
cjg225
Posts: 1301
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:59 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 2:42 am

I wasn't aware that American police are fielding the AK-47...   
Restoring Penn State's transportation heritage...
 
SXDFC
Posts: 1660
Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 6:07 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 2:53 am

Where is Lauren Stover and the Airport 24/7 crew when you need them?
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 5:12 am

I don't get it. The checked bag did not make it on the plane because it raised an alarm.
Why did the authorities wait for the plane to leave Tallahassee and reach Miami to arrest the owner?
Why did they not get him off the plane at Tallahassee?
 
User avatar
TWA772LR
Posts: 3699
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:12 am

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 5:56 am

I knew I should have stayed in Miami just one more day!
Beauty is watching a 787 bank to make a short final. Bliss is watching that 787 with a good beer. Nirvana is all of that with a beautiful woman on your side.
 
spacecadet
Posts: 2789
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 7:23 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 2):
Where is Lauren Stover and the Airport 24/7 crew when you need them?

Filming, no doubt, and congratulating themselves for another well-planned season finale.
I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
 
trav110
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:49 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 7:54 am

Quoting dtwlax (Reply 3):
Why did the authorities wait for the plane to leave Tallahassee and reach Miami to arrest the owner?

That's a good question. If the plane landed safely in Miami without the package why was it necessary to storm the plane? It would seem like the passengers were pretty much out of danger at that point. But then the article goes on to mention suspicions of a "suspicious package" on board amongst the passengers once it was in Miami. What the hell is going on- Why wasn't that caught in Tallahassee? Why didn't they just arrest them at the gate instead of swarming a 40 passenger plane?

This is a terribly vague article that creates more questions than it answers.

[Edited 2013-05-26 00:56:23]

[Edited 2013-05-26 01:01:18]
 
opethfan
Posts: 916
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 6:35 am

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 9:11 am

Quoting trav110 (Reply 6):
Why wasn't that caught in Tallahassee? Why didn't they just arrest them at the gate instead of swarming a 40 passenger plane?

This is a very valid and significant question - a small, regional jet that doesn't have the 'suspicious' package on board and has already landed at its destination, being raided by SWAT with (more likely) MP5s which have every potential of making a situation very ugly indeed.

If anything was up at that stage in the game, it's better to do something lower-key at the gate rather than put people's lives at risk for what did not apparently seem like an immediate issue?

It's definitely something I would like explained and not just kept quiet for the sake of "security".
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 9:31 am

So these people have been scared and endangered by a SWAT team wielding weapons in their faces. treated like suspects although completely innocent and not knowing what was going on and why this happened and they "thank the police" after 1 1/2 hour of their time was stolen? No explanation given?

What did they thank them for?
powered by Eierlikör
 
AA737-823
Posts: 4897
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2000 11:10 am

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 9:35 am

Quoting opethfan (Reply 7):
This is a very valid and significant question - a small, regional jet that doesn't have the 'suspicious' package on board and has already landed at its destination, being raided by SWAT with (more likely) MP5s which have every potential of making a situation very ugly indeed.

If anything was up at that stage in the game, it's better to do something lower-key at the gate rather than put people's lives at risk for what did not apparently seem like an immediate issue?

It's definitely something I would like explained and not just kept quiet for the sake of "security".

Our security organizations, namely the TSA and DHS, don't do "subtle". Everybody wants their fifteen minutes, and these guys most of all.
Why wait until everyone is safely on the plane, when you could instead make huge headlines and "save the day" or something.
 
 
skywaymanaz
Posts: 636
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:00 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 11:25 am

There could really be a story here that justifies scenes like when federal agents pointed automatic weapons at Elian Gonzalez but I'm not holding my breath. To bad no one on that flight had Google glass to record it . . . yet. DHS would be cringing at the video endlessly looped on the 24 hour news channels.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 9):
Our security organizations, namely the TSA and DHS, don't do "subtle". Everybody wants their fifteen minutes, and these guys most of all.

Unfortunately there is something to this. TSA and DHS are in desperate need of a major event where they save the day under the blitz of media cameras. Twenty years ago that was exactly why ATF invited the media along to watch them take down the Branch Davidian complex in Waco. They responded with overkill to a crime that could have been handled with less drama and tragically it left 4 agents dead. It got worse from there but most people know that part of that story. I don't think reasonable sane people would wish this on DHS but they indeed do things over the top. Like DHS swarming a private Cirrus SR22 at Iowa City airport May 5th along with local cops and a drug dog urging the long haired hippie type arriving from Colorado with his husband to confess where they had pot hidden on the aircraft. Several hours later after ransacking the plane and their belongings nothing was found. I guess an Orthodox Jewish investment banker and his husband look like stoners to DHS. That was their second encounter with DHS on that trip btw.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 11:43 am

The comparison with Waco, which I happened to watch on my hotel room TV in Atlanta does not apply. While in Waco a group belonging to a sect was raided, the passengers in an aircraft are a randomly assembled group of people, most of them having no connection whatsoever.

How can a government agency endanger the lives of 40 odd people by conducting such an action described in the quoted article? Apparantly they knew the people they were looking for. Why should random passengers who have nothing to do with the poetinal "accused of whatever" even be questioned and be kept in custody for anything longer than it takes to check their identity? Which is a minute, not moe.
powered by Eierlikör
 
JBAirwaysFan
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 11:17 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 12:26 pm

What I don't get is if there was a suspicious package on board the plane, why didn't they evacuate the passengers. You know, in case the thing did explode at some point? Then you have 40 dead pax...that's not good.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
sandyb123
Posts: 744
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:29 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 12:58 pm

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 12):

What I don't get is if there was a suspicious package on board the plane, why didn't they evacuate the passengers. You know, in case the thing did explode at some point? Then you have 40 dead pax...that's not good.

Please read the thread and article. The package wasn't loaded onto the flight.

Sandyb123
Member of the mile high club
 
727LOVER
Posts: 6642
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 1:18 pm

The part that caught me was:

Velazquez, who was traveling with 18 family members, was one of 40 passengers on the commuter flight

Half the plane was one family???!!!!  
Sheesh!

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 2):
Where is Lauren Stover and the Airport 24/7 crew when you need them?

Where does this show air?
Love Trumps Hate
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 7584
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 1:42 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
So these people have been scared and endangered by a SWAT team wielding weapons in their faces. treated like suspects although completely innocent and not knowing what was going on and why this happened and they "thank the police" after 1 1/2 hour of their time was stolen? No explanation given?

What did they thank them for?

They thanked them for the money they'll make in the following suit 
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
User avatar
eksath
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 1299
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:19 am

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 1:51 pm

World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 3:04 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 15):
They thanked them for the money they'll make in the following suit

Logic explanation.  

But really, from my experience with (former) busines partners in the US I know that they have their pants full when they even hear the word DHS.

Actually, I am no longer interested in doing business with the USA because of these issues. I just last week gave the boot to someone I was dealing with for 30 years. Too complicated and risky dealing with a country that has erased common sense from their day to day dealings.
powered by Eierlikör
 
copter808
Posts: 1383
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 5:11 pm

Unless I missed something, the article says that:
The package was not loaded
It was "Suspicious."
The contents of the package are "unknown"
Nobody was charged (yet)

Really glad to hear nobody was charged, since according to the article no crime was committed!!! However, I suspect there if far more (or less) to the actual situation.

I would think that the short flight time would play a part in the scenario. They may still have been investigating the package at the time the plane landed. Without knowing the facts, I certainly can't pass judgment on whether this was an overreaction on the part of the police.
 
skywaymanaz
Posts: 636
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:00 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 5:20 pm

PanHAM the Waco reference I made was on how the seige began instead of how it ended 60 odd days later. I may not have been as clear about that as I could have been. Sorry if it that was off topic but as AA737-823 pointed out Federal agencies aren't subtle and want to look like they saved the day. Someone easily could have been seriously injured or killed in this incident by an accidental weapon discharge. It's a tight space and all that had to happen was one of them tripping.

I'm sorry to hear you are having to complicated a time conducting business with our country to continue. I can't say I blame you though. We really are cutting off our nose to spite our face  
 
SPREE34
Posts: 1561
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 6:09 am

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 5:24 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 17):
Too complicated and risky dealing with a country that has erased common sense from their day to day dealings.

I wish more of my countrymen would realize this. We seem to be willing to do anything the government wants anymore, with no logical thought processes or explanation. The lessons learned in your country, and others, over th last 80 years seem lost. Aviation became the testing place for idiocy tolerance. Seems the tolerance is pretty high.

Excellent questions posed above, as to why this had to be handled in "Storm Trooper" mode.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
md80fanatic
Posts: 2365
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:29 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 6:12 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 8):
So these people have been scared and endangered by a SWAT team wielding weapons in their faces. treated like suspects although completely innocent and not knowing what was going on and why this happened and they "thank the police" after 1 1/2 hour of their time was stolen? No explanation given?

What did they thank them for?

Sounds like Stockholm Syndrome, very common in modern day America.
 
ATCtower
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 1:46 am

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 7:30 pm

I too wonder why people who would cause a plane to be raided like this would even be allowed to leave TLH. Probably headlines.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 14):
The part that caught me was:

Velazquez, who was traveling with 18 family members, was one of 40 passengers on the commuter flight

Half the plane was one family???!!!!  
Sheesh!

You obviously are not very well versed about Latin people in South Florida. 19 is a very small family  
By reading the above post you waive all rights to be offended. If you do not like what you read, forget it.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 12388
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Sun May 26, 2013 7:41 pm

Quoting copter808 (Reply 18):
I would think that the short flight time would play a part in the scenario. They may still have been investigating the package at the time the plane landed. Without knowing the facts, I certainly can't pass judgment on whether this was an overreaction on the part of the police

I hope there is an investigation and public as best as possible disclosure as to why the heavy security forces actions, but the quoted scenario makes the most sense. I would also note that apparently someone at TSA failed to do their job so this may be a butt covering for that failure.
 
JBAirwaysFan
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat May 23, 2009 11:17 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Mon May 27, 2013 12:26 am

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 13):
Please read the thread and article. The package wasn't loaded onto the flight.

I did read the article. My post came from this: "Word of a possible suspicious package ON BOARD spread through the cabin of the small jet. "We asked the stewardess what was happening, and she said she thought there might be a device on our plane," said Velazquez."

Despite the fact that officials said this: "Officials said a checked bag alarmed during screening at the Tallahassee Airport Saturday morning, which didn't make the flight, caused the big concern on the tarmac at MIA."

The two statements conflict. If that is what the stewardess said, then they could very well have been looking for more, which is what lead to my post.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
 
trav110
Posts: 536
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:49 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Mon May 27, 2013 2:21 am

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 24):
The two statements conflict. If that is what the stewardess said, then they could very well have been looking for more, which is what lead to my post.

The way this information is included is the article is just perplexing. The entire article leads up to them raiding the plane for an unknown reason, after a package that was held at the origin looked suspicious, arrests were made, and no known threat was discovered. And then they throw in the bit about a rumoured suspicious package on board with no evidence or followup on that whatsoever.

My guess is that the flight attendant speculated there to be a suspicious package onboard (since she was no doubt out of the loop on the developing situation) causing the delays, and her speculation was accepted as fact by a passenger and included in the article- even though it wasn't necessarily true. It would explain why there is no mention of anything being on the plane before or after that particular line. A poorly written article if you ask me.

Hopefully we'll know more soon.
 
brilondon
Posts: 3018
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Mon May 27, 2013 2:49 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 17):
Actually, I am no longer interested in doing business with the USA because of these issues. I just last week gave the boot to someone I was dealing with for 30 years. Too complicated and risky dealing with a country that has erased common sense from their day to day dealings.

I agree, the days of me doing business with Americans is over, I only have clients in England, Korea and Canada. Yes I know where I live, but all my business dealings are outside of the country, I am even having thoughts of leaving and returning to Canada...but for the weather in the winter I would.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
winstonlegthigh
Posts: 125
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:15 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Mon May 27, 2013 6:19 am

Quoting skywaymanaz (Reply 10):
Too bad no one on that flight had Google glass to record it . . .

The article mentions they had just touched down. Everyone knows that portable electronics are strictly prohibited until an announcement is made saying otherwise. Surely no one would dare break a rule like that.  

That said, it's really unfortunate that we've devolved into such a frightened society.
Never has gravity been so uplifting.
 
User avatar
eksath
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 1299
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:19 am

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Mon May 27, 2013 11:22 am

Quoting trav110 (Reply 25):
The way this information is included is the article is just perplexing. The entire article leads up to them raiding the plane for an unknown reason, after a package that was held at the origin looked suspicious, arrests were made, and no known threat was discovered. And then they throw in the bit about a rumoured suspicious package on board with no evidence or followup on that whatsoever.

Paragraph # 1: "Heavily armed police officers stormed a plane on a South Florida runway and took three people into custody after a suspicious package that did not make it on board raised concerns in Tallahassee."

and the 4th line from the bottom: "Officials said a checked bag alarmed during screening at the Tallahassee Airport Saturday morning, which didn't make the flight, caused the big concern on the tarmac at MIA."

I take it that the three individuals made it on the flight but their "suspicious" luggage did not. Once the TSA decided the luggage was noteworthy, the plane was on the way to MIA. Rather than get them at the gate coming off the plane, they decided to get them in the penalty box.

I guess it is an operational decision from a tactical standpoint at which point to move in. Do you wait for them at the gate and the 'really really bad people" do something on the plane/airport or do you attempt to neutralize them far away from the airport building? i.e. disrupt one flight schedule as opposed to 100 when they evacuate the whole terminal?
World Wide Aerospace Photography
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Mon May 27, 2013 12:32 pm

Quoting eksath (Reply 28):
I guess it is an operational decision from a tactical standpoint at which point to move in.

When at war, the best tactical decision would be to stop commercial flights altogether. We are, however not at war. Not in Europe and not in North America and most other parts of the world.

The logical way is, when a piece of luggage is suspicious, ask the owner to open, security hand checks the luggage. If there are items inside which are not allowed in checked luggage, the owner has the choice to remove these items or stay behind. In case there are weapons or explosives inside it is a case for police.

Letting a suspicious piece of luggage behind but the owner of the luggage plus 2 more persons fly to destination does not make any sense. If there really was a breach of secruity, TSA has endangered the lives of 40 passengers plus crew.
powered by Eierlikör
 
User avatar
eksath
Crew
Topic Author
Posts: 1299
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2004 6:19 am

RE: "Police Storm Commuter Plane On MIA Runway"

Mon May 27, 2013 10:49 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 29):
When at war, the best tactical decision would be to stop commercial flights altogether. We are, however not at war. Not in Europe and not in North America and most other parts of the world.

The term "tactical" is not reserved for war situations. It is also appropriate when one is dealing with such things as SWAT operations or anti hijack operations. That is the purpose of my usage.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 29):
The logical way is, when a piece of luggage is suspicious, ask the owner to open, security hand checks the luggage. If there are items inside which are not allowed in checked luggage, the owner has the choice to remove these items or stay behind. In case there are weapons or explosives inside it is a case for police.

Often the screening of the checked in luggage happens without the passenger present. One of the checks and balances in the system would be to get the passenger(s) with the suspicious baggage before takeoff. Apparently, they did not hence the appropriateness of what you say below.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 29):
Letting a suspicious piece of luggage behind but the owner of the luggage plus 2 more persons fly to destination does not make any sense. If there really was a breach of secruity, TSA has endangered the lives of 40 passengers plus crew.

I agree.
World Wide Aerospace Photography

Who is online