Qazar
Topic Author
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 4:18 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 1:55 pm

I was taking a look at the LH schedule to some US cities this summer and noticed that most of them have been downgraded in comparison to previous years' summer services... The most noticeable are:

- Detroit (DTW) is now only served twice a week by A333... Used to be twice DAILY A333 several years back.
- Philadelphia (PHL) is also down to 2 weekly A343... Used to be daily B744 a couple of summers ago.
- Atlanta (ATL) down to 3 x A343 a week... Used to be daily A343.
- Dallas (DFW) down to 4 x A333 a week... Used to be daily A343.
- Denver (DEN) down to twice weekly B744.... Used to be daily B744 in the summer.


Other interesting drop in capacity from Frankfurt:

- New York (JFK) = served twice daily by B744 which means that the A388 has been removed from the route, and the normal 3rd daily summer rotation is not being added.

- Newark (EWR) = served by once daily B744 which means the 2nd daily summer rotation is not being added.

- Washington (IAD) = Served by B748 and A333 daily, which means the 3rd daily regular rotation is not being added.

- Boston (BOS) = served by a daily B744 and A343, downgraded from the regular 2 daily B744 services.

- Los Angeles (LAX) = served by daily B748 and twice WEEKLY B744... Previous summer seasons showed twice daily B744 services.


The only destinations that seem to show a certain level of normality are:
- Chicago (ORD): Showing twice daily B744 service.
- San Francisco (SFO): Showing the regular A388 daily service.
- Houston (IAH): Showing daily A388 service.
- Seattle (SEA): Showing the regular A333 daily service.
- Orlando (MCO): Showing 6 weekly A346s instead of the regular summer daily B744 rotation. Although this city also shows a drop in capacity it is not as dramatic as DFW, ATL, DTW, DEN, and PHL.

1) Am I getting wrong info in my searches or are these drops in capacity for real?
2) Can someone explain why such a huge drop in capacity?
3) Observation: I find it intriguing that LH serves a destination only twice weekly (PHL, DTW, and DEN)... I thought their minimum frequency to long-haul is always at least 3 times weekly?
 
Navion
Posts: 1052
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 1:52 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 2:09 pm

Is MIA service unchanged?
 
MesaFlyGuy
Posts: 3818
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:36 pm

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 2:15 pm

I don't believe IAD-FRA was ever 3x daily and I know JFK wasn't. Perhaps you're thinking of the daily MUC flight to both which runs in addition to the FRA flights with a333s?
The views I express are my own and do not reflect the views and opinions of my company.
 
vfw614
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 2:35 pm

Quoting Qazar (Thread starter):
was taking a look at the LH schedule to some US cities this summer and noticed that most of them have been downgraded in comparison to previous years' summer services... The most noticeable are:

- Detroit (DTW) is now only served twice a week by A333... Used to be twice DAILY A333 several years back.
- Philadelphia (PHL) is also down to 2 weekly A343... Used to be daily B744 a couple of summers ago.
- Atlanta (ATL) down to 3 x A343 a week... Used to be daily A343.
- Dallas (DFW) down to 4 x A333 a week... Used to be daily A343.
- Denver (DEN) down to twice weekly B744.... Used to be daily B744 in the summer.

Not sure where you have been looking at, but the timetable (current as of May 21, 2013) I am looking at right now at this moment shows daily flights on all those routes.
 
hoons90
Posts: 3124
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2001 10:15 pm

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 2:37 pm

It looks like all of those destinations will still have daily frequencies. It's just that the departure times slightly vary depending on the day of the week, so it shows up in the timetable as if it was less than a daily flight.
The biggest mistake made by most human beings: Listening to only half, understanding just a quarter and telling double.
 
Qazar
Topic Author
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 4:18 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 2:38 pm

Quoting Navion (Reply 1):
Is MIA service unchanged?

LH is applying the regular downgrade of the aircraft type to B744 from A388 during the northern summer schedule. This downgrade is normal and consistant with previous years' schedules... The service returns to daily A388 in the northern hemisphere winter.



Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 2):
I don't believe IAD-FRA was ever 3x daily and I know JFK wasn't. Perhaps you're thinking of the daily MUC flight to both which runs in addition to the FRA flights with a333s?

During their peak years, in the summer, LH served JFK 3 times daily from Frankfurt, and twice daily to EWR... I believe the JFK flights were 400/401, 404/405, and the additional seasonal rotation was 490/491 (or 480/481... I can't remember, sorry!!!) ... The EWR services were 402/403 and 406/407
 
mjzair
Posts: 354
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 1999 12:10 pm

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 2:40 pm

I have flown out of the PHL airport for the last 8 years on a daily basis, and I never once saw a LH 747
 
Qazar
Topic Author
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 4:18 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 2:41 pm

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 4):
It looks like all of those destinations will still have daily frequencies. It's just that the departure times slightly vary depending on the day of the week, so it shows up in the timetable as if it was less than a daily flight.

Really?!!! Where do you see that? I checked both the LH online timetable on their site, and the timetable on the Star Alliance site and they both gave me the info that appears in my original post!
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 4775
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 2:43 pm

Quoting Qazar (Reply 7):
Really?!!! Where do you see that? I checked both the LH online timetable on their site, and the timetable on the Star Alliance site and they both gave me the info that appears in my original post!

You have to go to the downloadable time table, not the online one.
 
michman
Posts: 606
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:51 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 2:45 pm

Quoting Qazar (Thread starter):
Am I getting wrong info in my searches or are these drops in capacity for real?

Looks like you are getting the wrong info.

The timetable is here -- http://www.oim.de/timetable/lh/tt_view.php?tt=en

I checked DTW and DEN and they are still daily. PHL is 6x weekly (does not operate Tue).
 
Qazar
Topic Author
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat May 20, 2006 4:18 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 2:53 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 8):
You have to go to the downloadable time table, not the online one

Yeah, but isn't the online info "live" and reflects the more updated schedule changes... The link everyone is pointing me to is the printed timetable which would probably not show any updated changes to capacity adjustments...!!!

With regards to DTW, PHL, DEN, ATL, and DFW... I tried several dates during the summer just to make sure I was not wrong, and every time it gave me the schedule I mention in my original post!... I find it very bizarre!!!

Thanks everyone... I appreciate your help!!!

Cheers!
 
flymia
Posts: 6808
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 3:02 pm

MIA is being upgraded to an 748 when it's not the A380 if I remember correctly.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
wagz
Posts: 461
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:48 pm

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 3:12 pm

Quoting mjzair (Reply 6):

I have flown out of the PHL airport for the last 8 years on a daily basis, and I never once saw a LH 747

Several years ago for two summers LH did run a B744 to PHL 4x weekly. The other 3x a week was the A343.
I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
 
Lufthansa411
Posts: 345
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:54 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 3:12 pm

Quoting Qazar (Reply 5):
LH is applying the regular downgrade of the aircraft type to B744 from A388 during the northern summer schedule. This downgrade is normal and consistant with previous years' schedules... The service returns to daily A388 in the northern hemisphere winter.

That is not correct- starting this month 2x weekly FRA-MIA-FRA will be flown with the 748 iso the 747.

Quoting Qazar (Reply 5):
During their peak years, in the summer, LH served JFK 3 times daily from Frankfurt, and twice daily to EWR... I believe the JFK flights were 400/401, 404/405, and the additional seasonal rotation was 490/491 (or 480/481... I can't remember, sorry!!!) ... The EWR services were 402/403 and 406/407

The FRA-JFK rotation used to be 3x daily, 400/401, 404/405, and 406/407. At EWR there were flight numbers 402/403 and 484/485. However 406/407 have not operated since 2008 around the time A+ was developed between UA and LH.

As for the recent capacity reductions- I have heard that the US/EU were asking questions about the overall A++ marketshare from EWR/JFK and so to "not make it an issue" LH dropped the second daily EWR flight and this year did not bring the A380 back to JFK. Wise move in my opinion since every time I arrived at JFK T1 between 12:00-15:00 there seemed to be way to many people- to the point where sometimes we sat on the a/c at the gate for an hour at the request of CBP and T1 waiting for the customs lines to die down.
Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.
 
dalca
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:36 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 3:14 pm

LH did indeed fly twice daily to DTW for a short period but this was discontinued about 5 years ago.
Concerning JFK, in the 8 years working for LH Cargo I have never seen a 3rd daily flight so that is quite some time ago.
EWR was also served double daily till 3 years ago and I am sure UA kind of picked up this route.

For all the other flights I can confim they are daily except for PHL, no day 2 flight.
Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight KUL-FRA-AMS Flown in A319,A
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 4775
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 3:38 pm

Quoting Qazar (Reply 10):
Yeah, but isn't the online info "live" and reflects the more updated schedule changes... The link everyone is pointing me to is the printed timetable which would probably not show any updated changes to capacity adjustments...!!!

But you have to be careful- if it operates at slightly different times on different days then it may imply that the frequency is lower than reality. Also occasionally the same flight number isn't used every day. Back when LOT had 1 daily flight to JFK they had two different flight numbers because some days the flight operated several hours later than others (I do not know if that is still the case after they left EWR and consolidated their NYC flights in JFK).
 
DTWLAX
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 4:19 pm

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 3:53 pm

Quoting Qazar (Thread starter):
I was taking a look at the LH schedule to some US cities this summer and noticed that most of them have been downgraded in comparison to previous years' summer services... The most noticeable are:

- Detroit (DTW) is now only served twice a week by A333... Used to be twice DAILY A333 several years back.

I do not know where you saw that but there is no change to the DTW schedule for this summer.
The twice daily was only for a short time if I am correct, but mostly it has always been daily A333 to DTW for quite some time now.

Here is the proof from LH's summer 2013 schedule


Honestly, I do not see LH dropping DTW to anything short of daily given the auto industry connections.
 
vfw614
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 4:02 pm

Quoting Qazar (Reply 10):

Yeah, but isn't the online info "live" and reflects the more updated schedule changes... The link everyone is pointing me to is the printed timetable which would probably not show any updated changes to capacity adjustments...!!!

There is no "printed" timetable, it just looks like the old printed timetable. It is an regularly updated PDF timetable. The current version of what you regard as the "printed" timetable was published last tuesday (May 21, 2013) and shows daily flights on the routes you mention.
 
User avatar
kgaiflyer
Posts: 2576
Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 3:22 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 4:08 pm

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 2):
I don't believe IAD-FRA was ever 3x daily

AFAIK, that third flight was to MUC -- not FRA.
 
AWACSooner
Posts: 1771
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:35 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 4:09 pm

What about the DUS routes (EWR, ORD, MIA)?
 
vfw614
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 5:49 pm

Quite honestly, I am not sure what the point of discussing is as the alleged crime was not committed....
 
dalca
Posts: 186
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:36 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 5:49 pm

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 19):
What about the DUS routes (EWR, ORD, MIA)?

EWR and ORD are still flying, the MIA flight has switched to YYZ as is done every summer
Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight KUL-FRA-AMS Flown in A319,A
 
User avatar
OA412
Crew
Posts: 3762
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2000 6:22 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 17):
There is no "printed" timetable, it just looks like the old printed timetable. It is an regularly updated PDF timetable. The current version of what you regard as the "printed" timetable was published last tuesday (May 21, 2013) and shows daily flights on the routes you mention.

   For instance, DEN is still daily. Going down to 2 weekly at DEN would essentially hand the DEN-Europe market to BA and FI on a silver platter.

The online timetable used to show the weekly schedule, and LH often had flights departing/arriving at different times 1 or 2 days a week.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
LJ
Posts: 4112
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 7:04 pm

Quoting Qazar (Reply 10):
Yeah, but isn't the online info "live" and reflects the more updated schedule changes... The link everyone is pointing me to is the printed timetable which would probably not show any updated changes to capacity adjustments...!!!

The current online timetable system Star uses is crappy (why they had to follow oneworld is a mystery to me). It gives wrong information about when a particular flight operates and is only good for the day yhou select. The previous system was much better, but Skyteam is the only one currently using it. The PDF is the most reliable timetable if you want to have an overview of weekly flights (as long as you used the most curent version).
 
brilondon
Posts: 3018
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Sun May 26, 2013 7:39 pm

I did a search and could not find the cuts that have been mentioned. I even looked at the star timetable and did not find any. There are some capacity adjustments gut that is about all folks.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
VTORD
Posts: 139
Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2012 9:45 pm

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 12:03 am

Quoting Qazar (Thread starter):
Chicago (ORD): Showing twice daily B744 service.

ORD is 1 x 744 + 1 x 346 daily from FRA? Or are they making a change for the summer?

Plus the daily from MUC which LH website shows as 346. Wasn't that a 332?
Twitter: @spottingfoodie
 
vfw614
Posts: 3168
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 12:34 am

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 12:14 am

Quoting VTORD (Reply 25):
Plus the daily from MUC which LH website shows as 346. Wasn't that a 332?

Lufthansa has no A332s.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7391
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 1:02 am

With the talk about PHL. Will LH maintain their service if US and AA merge? I'm sure this has been discussed before...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
Capt.Fantastic
Posts: 811
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 1999 4:01 am

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 3:20 am

Per the OAG, the LH schedule between DTW and FRA is DAILY throughout summer 2013.
Your info is erroneous.
 
bagoldex
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:33 pm

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 3:24 am

I don't think Boston has ever seen two daily 74's either.
 
User avatar
Miami
Posts: 5434
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 3:34 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 11):

You are correct, but the 748 will only come to MIA on Thursdays and Fridays. 744 will go from Saturday-Wednesday.

LH plans to make the 748 daily to MIA. That is until the winter months when the A380 takes place.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
User avatar
Miami
Posts: 5434
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2012 8:37 pm

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 3:36 am

The healthiest first-class routes on LH includes Frankfurt to Kuwait, Johannesburg, Riyadh and Miami

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...s-fleet-below-british-airways.html
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
Venezuela747
Posts: 1374
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2004 9:36 am

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 4:40 am

I wonder why that was the case for DEN. I did not think the market was that bad, always thought the loads were good and they got a lot of connecting traffic from UA. I guess now they'd want to send people through ORD.
Sure BA and FI will steal some traffic, but connection-wise it'd be better to do UA to LH
ROLL TIDE!!!
 
Freshside3
Posts: 1194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:11 am

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 4:49 am

Quoting Qazar (Thread starter):
Other interesting drop in capacity from Frankfurt:

- New York (JFK) = served twice daily by B744 which means that the A388 has been removed from the route, and the normal 3rd daily summer rotation is not being added.

- Newark (EWR) = served by once daily B744 which means the 2nd daily summer rotation is not being added.

Part of this has to do with this lawsuit concerning Star Alliance. LH and UA had to give up some capacity out of New York airports, as a result.
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 1:19 pm

Quoting Qazar (Thread starter):
- Detroit (DTW) is now only served twice a week by A333... Used to be twice DAILY A333 several years back.

The drop of the twice daily A333 is understandable at DTW. I don't think it was ever twice daily, but maybe 10X weekly. Last summer LH was bringing in the A343 a lot to DTW. A big reason for LH presence at DTW was when Daimler/Benz owned Chrysler, so there were a lot of flights to Germany back then. LH had been absent from DTW since the 1980s, but finally returned in 1999 right after the Daimler/Chrysler merger. Daimler sold off Chrysler a few years back and now FIAT owns it. I am sort of surprised that Alitalia (being a Skyteam member) and FIAT being Italian doesn't fly to DTW with a daily A332 and Delta doesn't have year round FCO service to DTW

Quoting Qazar (Thread starter):
- Orlando (MCO): Showing 6 weekly A346s instead of the regular summer daily B744 rotation. Although this city also shows a drop in capacity it is not as dramatic as DFW, ATL, DTW, DEN, and PHL.

Actually at MCO late June through about October, MCO typically just sees the A333. The 744 has typically been winter and the A346 has typically been late spring.

Quoting Navion (Reply 1):
Is MIA service unchanged?

To FRA the service is slightly upgraded but DUS is gone (or at least I didn't see it when I was down there last). Last year FRA was daily 744, this year it is supposed to be 5X 744 2X 748... however 2011 they used the A380 daily.
 
WROORD
Posts: 667
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:36 pm

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 1:57 pm

Quoting VTORD (Reply 25):
ORD is 1 x 744 + 1 x 346 daily from FRA? Or are they making a change for the summer?

FRA-ORD 2 daily 747-400
MUC-ORD 1 daily 340-600
DUS-ORD 1 daily 340-300

Plus you have UA 2 x daily to FRA and 1 daily to MUC.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 2:31 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 34):
A big reason for LH presence at DTW was when Daimler/Benz owned Chrysler, so there were a lot of flights to Germany back then

There is a large automobile cluster around FRA, these flights are no way depending on Daimler/Chrysler (which had its own shuttle with A319 between STR and Pontiac) nor on GM/Opel whoch is 10 miles down the road from FRA. Indeed there are dozens of small and large firms related to automobile manufacturing which warrants the daily flights and separate MD11 freighters.
powered by Eierlikör
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2452
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 5:24 pm

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 36):

There is a large automobile cluster around FRA, these flights are no way depending on Daimler/Chrysler (which had its own shuttle with A319 between STR and Pontiac) nor on GM/Opel whoch is 10 miles down the road from FRA. Indeed there are dozens of small and large firms related to automobile manufacturing which warrants the daily flights and separate MD11 freighters.

I'm just saying LH had been absent from DTW for about 10 years from late 80s until late 90s - it wasn't there during the most recent best economy of Detroit from 1994-1998. Lufthansa started right after the Daimler Chrysler merger and now that Fiat has owned Chrysler for the past couple years they are cutting back. Back in the 80s they only had a couple weekly DC-10 or 742 flights and I think they originated at ORD or somewhere else too. The A319 PTK-STR was used more by the "bigwigs" of Daimler, the German based workers I believe. The Auburn Hills based workers for Chrysler when going there would use LH and NW.

I wasn't even aware that the LH MD-11s still flew to DTW until I saw one last March there
 
klwright69
Posts: 2347
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 5:37 pm

LH will never reduce their frequencies to DEN to anything like two or three times a week. They might as well discontinue completely in that case. The competition to Europe would crush them with such a reduction in frequencies.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 8533
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Major Downgrade Of LH Summer Schedule To USA?

Mon May 27, 2013 5:43 pm

Well such flights do not depend on single companies. Like I said, there is a automobiloe cluster in the Rhein-Main area plus Mannheim / Stuttgart whch includes dozens of companies which are the backbone for such flights, plus the usualy hub traffic. Couple of years ago LH had indeed twice daily FRA-DTW, if these flights do not make money they are scaled back. DTW being a ST hub is rather a reason for scaling down.
powered by Eierlikör

Who is online